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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
He does not blind his opponent with Bright lights. That is a Jackson thing.

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 1 2012, 8:09am


Views: 332
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He does not blind his opponent with Bright lights. That is a Jackson thing. [In reply to] Can't Post

Has everyone been reading these chapters? "The Lights went out, the great fire went off into a tower of glowing blue smoke that scattered white sparks amongst the goblins. . . the sparks were burning holes IN the goblins etc."

The Warg scene in LOTR, "In The Wavering Firelight Gandalf seemed suddenly to grow. He rose up, a great menacing shape like the monument of some ancient king. . . stooping like a cloud, he stode to meet the wargs. They gave back before him. High in the air he tossed the blazing brand. . . it flared with radiance like lightning and his voice rolled like thunder. . . the tree above him burst into a bloom of brilliant flame. . . the fire lept from tree top to tree top etc. etc."

To quote Sam, "Whatever may be in store for old Gandalf, I'll wager it isn't the wolf's belly. . . What did I tell you Mr. Pippin?! Wolves won't get him! That was an eye opener and no mistake! Nearly singed the hair off my head he did!"

He also battles all The Nine Nazgul Lords, wielding in some fashion searing flame and "lightning that leaps up from the ground" from nightfall until dawn. Do you think Bolg could manage half as much?

And he is not shown to bring his full power to bear against The Balrog. Also, Glorfindel was very mighty among The High Elves, and even so, his feat in defeating a Balrog (it was more the fall than Glorfindel btw) was accounted a very mighty and legendary deed among the Elves, and a deed which few Elves ever replicated, whilst many of their great warriors and some of their great kings were felled by The Demons of Might.

Gandalf is limited in his earthly form, and forbidden from matching the power of Sauron with his own Maia power. He is not an all powerful super badass, and I am not suggesting otherwise. He is, however, very powerful. As mighty, in his way, as dread Powers like The Balrog (who, I will remind you, routed an entire kingdom of dwarves, after slaying their kings and many of their warriors, and the very power and fear of whom drove hosts of Elves from Lothlorien). He actually was GOING to kill a great number of the goblins, at his own expense, hurling down like a Thunderbolt. And at The Battle of Five armies, he is merely reffered to as "preparing some magic blast". Also, the lack of mention beyond him preparing some magic blast does not mean he did nothing worth mentioning. Thorin is in large part mentioned because he led a charge and the focus was on his tale, which was soon to end. Beorn played the key role in the saving of Thorin. The Eagles were the fifth army. You cannot assume that Gandalf, Thranduil, Bard, Dain and a host of other notables did not do any impressive fighting just because Tolkien didn't spend a paragraph of "oh by the way and in the meantime" on each of them.

You are seriously misrepresenting and underrepresenting a number of events here. I am not suggesting for a moment that Gandalf would come through wielding unstoppable Dumbledore spells, but let us dispense right now with the utterly false notion that he never is shown to do more than shine some damn light in people's faces. Peter may have portrayed it thus (and actually, even Peter actually gives him much more powers than you seem willing to credit him withm and certainly more than enough to overwhelm any lone goblin or orc in combat), but in the books he is clearly shown to wield notable Power, and "while he could not do everything, he could do a great deal for friends in a tight place." As Strider puts it, "I do not know of anything that could have hindered him, save The Enemy Himself. But do not give up hope! Gandalf is greater than you Shire-Folk know. As a rule you can see only his jokes and toys. . ." Aragorn later says, as they journey through Moria, "Do not be afraid! Do not be afraid. I have been with Gandalf on many a journey, if never one so dark, and there are tales in Rivendell of greater deeds of his than any I have seen."

Lets not totally disregard the books in making our assesments Fandragon. Gandalf did not storm about the world in an overwhelming godform, but he was a Force to be reckoned with, and beyond the recokoning of any singular orc warrior. For these films to suggest otherwise would not only disrespect Gandalf. . . it would rather badly downplay and disprespect the dread power of The Balrog.

In Reply To
Sure, he kills the Goblin King, but he does it with wits, blinding his opponent with bright light. Trolls? Defeated with wits. Wargs? Gandalf is over-matched and has to be rescued. Tolkien doesn't detail what happened in Dol Guldur, but he make it clear he barely got out alive. Who kills Smaug? Certainly not Gandalf. Battle of five armies? Gandalf's deeds don't even warrant a mention, it's the dwarves, Beorn and the eagles that clock up the kills. Even the Balrog, against whom Gandalf can bring his full power, is a draw, wheras the elf warrior Glorfindel defeats one straight up.

As for Bolg, he takes out three of the most powerful dwarves (whilst Gandalf did nothing worth mentioning), and is defeated by a giant man-bear. So I don't have a problem with him being a serious threat to Gandalf.

I seem to recall somewhere Tolkien wrote "the role of the Istari was not to match power with power, but to bring council".


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

Subject User Time
I am happily convinced Gandalf won't be captured with the dwarves, but now I worry if he will be with the company at all when the attack happens AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 26 2012, 1:57am
    If he is not with the dwarves Ffnir Send a private message to Ffnir Sep 26 2012, 2:27am
    Thorin suspects him of eating their food dave_lf Send a private message to dave_lf Sep 26 2012, 4:12am
        So the rumors say Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 26 2012, 4:32am
    Worry not. Milknut Send a private message to Milknut Sep 26 2012, 5:45am
        Er, those photos Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 26 2012, 5:55am
        'Tis not the cave DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 26 2012, 7:06am
        more proof titanium_hobbit Send a private message to titanium_hobbit Sep 26 2012, 7:51am
            It's an eagle toy, from Rivendell :-) / DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 26 2012, 7:53am
            This is the picture I was talking about. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 26 2012, 9:15pm
                The tree is at the front of the cave though, Bilbo could be in the back Carne Send a private message to Carne Sep 26 2012, 9:27pm
                Although we can only see four of the party in that shot in total. Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Sep 26 2012, 10:08pm
        I was thinking about this shot too, Milknut, but I keep wondering if this is in the cave shot AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 26 2012, 8:58pm
    Some element of change DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 26 2012, 7:07am
        Why? Milknut Send a private message to Milknut Sep 26 2012, 7:52am
            Because they're making the films, and not us ;-) DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 26 2012, 7:54am
                Maybe that was all part of an elaborate dream sequence! Milknut Send a private message to Milknut Sep 26 2012, 7:55am
                    lighting in the fight scene titanium_hobbit Send a private message to titanium_hobbit Sep 26 2012, 8:08am
                        What are you saying? Milknut Send a private message to Milknut Sep 26 2012, 8:10am
                            yes- that it's Bilbo's heroics before the abduction titanium_hobbit Send a private message to titanium_hobbit Sep 26 2012, 10:10am
                                I think Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Sep 26 2012, 10:21am
                                    Impossible Milknut Send a private message to Milknut Sep 26 2012, 10:34am
                                    What heroics? dave_lf Send a private message to dave_lf Sep 26 2012, 12:18pm
                        Might not be moonlight? / DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 26 2012, 8:12am
            That is exactly why it is a concern. Because it is a great scene which doesn't need AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 26 2012, 9:34pm
                was wondering that myself Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Sep 26 2012, 10:10pm
                Thorin an Great Goblin action figure Ffnir Send a private message to Ffnir Sep 26 2012, 11:10pm
                    I really don't like this Bolg vs. Gandalf thing. But that maybe deserves a seperate post. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 26 2012, 11:36pm
                        At least we know Gandlf wins ! ^^ / Ffnir Send a private message to Ffnir Sep 26 2012, 11:45pm
                            Indeed. Lol. Though it seems more likely they must draw, since Bolg will almost certainly AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 26 2012, 11:51pm
                                Bolg Carne Send a private message to Carne Sep 27 2012, 12:16am
                                    That statement does not necessarily refer to Gandalf. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 27 2012, 2:16am
                                        Bolg's opponent dave_lf Send a private message to dave_lf Sep 27 2012, 12:38pm
                                    I agree. Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Sep 27 2012, 8:51am
                                        Here is why that doesn't add up or make sense.. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 28 2012, 1:18am
                                    Also Carne, even by the less than book potent version of Gandalf seen in LOTR AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 28 2012, 1:30am
                                        What Gandalf CAN do vs. what he wants (or is allowed) to do Tim Send a private message to Tim Sep 28 2012, 4:41am
                                            Right Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 28 2012, 4:57am
                                                I think the Istari Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Sep 28 2012, 7:53am
                                                    Exactly Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 28 2012, 4:27pm
                                                    They are restrained, and their greater Spiritual power is, seemingly AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 29 2012, 12:46am
                                                        What is vs. reality Tim Send a private message to Tim Sep 29 2012, 2:04pm
                                                            I think there is something to your speculation. But my issue isn't with the way Tolkien AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 29 2012, 6:39pm
                                                                Tolkien never portrays Gandalf the Grey as that powerful Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Sep 30 2012, 7:13am
                                                                    He was powerful enough though. DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 30 2012, 10:01am
                                                                        Only because Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Sep 30 2012, 10:10am
                                                                            Depends how you define "power" DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 30 2012, 10:14am
                                                                                This is one of the most untrue things I have ever read. Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Sep 30 2012, 10:30am
                                                                                    Was Galadriel (Third Age) both very powerful, and very wise? / DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 30 2012, 10:36am
                                                                                        But it's wasn't power that made her wise. Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Sep 30 2012, 10:47am
                                                                                            Ahh, it seems you misunderstood me then DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 30 2012, 10:50am
                                                                                                Wisdom can give you a degree of power Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Sep 30 2012, 10:55am
                                                                                                    Agreed DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 30 2012, 11:07am
                                                                                                        I don't think Gandalf Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Sep 30 2012, 2:16pm
                                                                                                            Only Bard could have defeated him then? / DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 30 2012, 2:38pm
                                                                                                                In a sense, yes. Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Sep 30 2012, 4:40pm
                                                                                                                    Yes, Bard was "meant" to DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 30 2012, 4:45pm
                                                                            No. Not just because of Thranduil. Tolkien specifically said he had to find somewhere to AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Oct 1 2012, 8:17am
                                                                                Gandalf's power Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Oct 1 2012, 2:49pm
                                                                                    Some corrections. And sorry about hijacking this post. Amended later. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Oct 2 2012, 12:55am
                                                                                        You may hero-worship Gandalf, but it's not consistent with Tolkien Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Oct 2 2012, 8:05am
                                                                                            Challenge accepted. You have managed to ignore a lot of passages from the book. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Oct 3 2012, 12:51am
                                                                    He does not blind his opponent with Bright lights. That is a Jackson thing. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Oct 1 2012, 8:09am
                        I don't put anything past Peter Jackson Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Sep 26 2012, 11:55pm
                            AHAHAHAHAHHA. . . . wait. . . wait. . . AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 26 2012, 11:58pm
                                LOL Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Sep 27 2012, 12:06am
                                    Some tweaking Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Sep 27 2012, 12:22am
                            Okay... Tim Send a private message to Tim Sep 27 2012, 2:25am
                            Peter's a fan, too, you know. Milknut Send a private message to Milknut Sep 27 2012, 5:55am
                                He is most certainly a fan Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 27 2012, 5:58am
                                    Sharp words! Milknut Send a private message to Milknut Sep 27 2012, 5:59am
                                        Not at all Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 27 2012, 6:17am
                                            Um Milknut Send a private message to Milknut Sep 27 2012, 6:20am
                                                What point? Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 27 2012, 6:22am
                            Because he doesn't want his films to be ridiculous? dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Sep 27 2012, 8:00am
                                Interest JWPlatt Sep 27 2012, 8:21am
                                    That's true of anyone who does anything artistic... dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Sep 27 2012, 10:11am

 
 
 

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