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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Oct 1 2012, 8:09am
Views: 635
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He does not blind his opponent with Bright lights. That is a Jackson thing.
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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Has everyone been reading these chapters? "The Lights went out, the great fire went off into a tower of glowing blue smoke that scattered white sparks amongst the goblins. . . the sparks were burning holes IN the goblins etc."
The Warg scene in LOTR, "In The Wavering Firelight Gandalf seemed suddenly to grow. He rose up, a great menacing shape like the monument of some ancient king. . . stooping like a cloud, he stode to meet the wargs. They gave back before him. High in the air he tossed the blazing brand. . . it flared with radiance like lightning and his voice rolled like thunder. . . the tree above him burst into a bloom of brilliant flame. . . the fire lept from tree top to tree top etc. etc."
To quote Sam, "Whatever may be in store for old Gandalf, I'll wager it isn't the wolf's belly. . . What did I tell you Mr. Pippin?! Wolves won't get him! That was an eye opener and no mistake! Nearly singed the hair off my head he did!"
He also battles all The Nine Nazgul Lords, wielding in some fashion searing flame and "lightning that leaps up from the ground" from nightfall until dawn. Do you think Bolg could manage half as much?
And he is not shown to bring his full power to bear against The Balrog. Also, Glorfindel was very mighty among The High Elves, and even so, his feat in defeating a Balrog (it was more the fall than Glorfindel btw) was accounted a very mighty and legendary deed among the Elves, and a deed which few Elves ever replicated, whilst many of their great warriors and some of their great kings were felled by The Demons of Might.
Gandalf is limited in his earthly form, and forbidden from matching the power of Sauron with his own Maia power. He is not an all powerful super badass, and I am not suggesting otherwise. He is, however, very powerful. As mighty, in his way, as dread Powers like The Balrog (who, I will remind you, routed an entire kingdom of dwarves, after slaying their kings and many of their warriors, and the very power and fear of whom drove hosts of Elves from Lothlorien). He actually was GOING to kill a great number of the goblins, at his own expense, hurling down like a Thunderbolt. And at The Battle of Five armies, he is merely reffered to as "preparing some magic blast". Also, the lack of mention beyond him preparing some magic blast does not mean he did nothing worth mentioning. Thorin is in large part mentioned because he led a charge and the focus was on his tale, which was soon to end. Beorn played the key role in the saving of Thorin. The Eagles were the fifth army. You cannot assume that Gandalf, Thranduil, Bard, Dain and a host of other notables did not do any impressive fighting just because Tolkien didn't spend a paragraph of "oh by the way and in the meantime" on each of them.
You are seriously misrepresenting and underrepresenting a number of events here. I am not suggesting for a moment that Gandalf would come through wielding unstoppable Dumbledore spells, but let us dispense right now with the utterly false notion that he never is shown to do more than shine some damn light in people's faces. Peter may have portrayed it thus (and actually, even Peter actually gives him much more powers than you seem willing to credit him withm and certainly more than enough to overwhelm any lone goblin or orc in combat), but in the books he is clearly shown to wield notable Power, and "while he could not do everything, he could do a great deal for friends in a tight place." As Strider puts it, "I do not know of anything that could have hindered him, save The Enemy Himself. But do not give up hope! Gandalf is greater than you Shire-Folk know. As a rule you can see only his jokes and toys. . ." Aragorn later says, as they journey through Moria, "Do not be afraid! Do not be afraid. I have been with Gandalf on many a journey, if never one so dark, and there are tales in Rivendell of greater deeds of his than any I have seen."
Lets not totally disregard the books in making our assesments Fandragon. Gandalf did not storm about the world in an overwhelming godform, but he was a Force to be reckoned with, and beyond the recokoning of any singular orc warrior. For these films to suggest otherwise would not only disrespect Gandalf. . . it would rather badly downplay and disprespect the dread power of The Balrog. Sure, he kills the Goblin King, but he does it with wits, blinding his opponent with bright light. Trolls? Defeated with wits. Wargs? Gandalf is over-matched and has to be rescued. Tolkien doesn't detail what happened in Dol Guldur, but he make it clear he barely got out alive. Who kills Smaug? Certainly not Gandalf. Battle of five armies? Gandalf's deeds don't even warrant a mention, it's the dwarves, Beorn and the eagles that clock up the kills. Even the Balrog, against whom Gandalf can bring his full power, is a draw, wheras the elf warrior Glorfindel defeats one straight up.
As for Bolg, he takes out three of the most powerful dwarves (whilst Gandalf did nothing worth mentioning), and is defeated by a giant man-bear. So I don't have a problem with him being a serious threat to Gandalf.
I seem to recall somewhere Tolkien wrote "the role of the Istari was not to match power with power, but to bring council".
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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I am happily convinced Gandalf won't be captured with the dwarves, but now I worry if he will be with the company at all when the attack happens
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2012, 1:57am
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If he is not with the dwarves
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Fàfnir
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Sep 26 2012, 2:27am
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Thorin suspects him of eating their food
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dave_lf
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Sep 26 2012, 4:12am
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So the rumors say
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Sep 26 2012, 4:32am
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Worry not.
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Milknut
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Sep 26 2012, 5:45am
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Er, those photos
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Sep 26 2012, 5:55am
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'Tis not the cave
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DanielLB
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Sep 26 2012, 7:06am
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more proof
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titanium_hobbit
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Sep 26 2012, 7:51am
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It's an eagle toy, from Rivendell :-) /
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DanielLB
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Sep 26 2012, 7:53am
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This is the picture I was talking about.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2012, 9:15pm
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The tree is at the front of the cave though, Bilbo could be in the back
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Carne
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Sep 26 2012, 9:27pm
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Although we can only see four of the party in that shot in total.
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Sep 26 2012, 10:08pm
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I was thinking about this shot too, Milknut, but I keep wondering if this is in the cave shot
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2012, 8:58pm
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Some element of change
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DanielLB
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Sep 26 2012, 7:07am
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Why?
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Milknut
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Sep 26 2012, 7:52am
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Because they're making the films, and not us ;-)
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DanielLB
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Sep 26 2012, 7:54am
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Maybe that was all part of an elaborate dream sequence!
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Milknut
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Sep 26 2012, 7:55am
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lighting in the fight scene
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titanium_hobbit
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Sep 26 2012, 8:08am
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What are you saying?
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Milknut
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Sep 26 2012, 8:10am
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yes- that it's Bilbo's heroics before the abduction
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titanium_hobbit
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Sep 26 2012, 10:10am
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I think
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Fardragon
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Sep 26 2012, 10:21am
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Impossible
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Milknut
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Sep 26 2012, 10:34am
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What heroics?
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dave_lf
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Sep 26 2012, 12:18pm
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Might not be moonlight? /
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DanielLB
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Sep 26 2012, 8:12am
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That is exactly why it is a concern. Because it is a great scene which doesn't need
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2012, 9:34pm
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was wondering that myself
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Sinister71
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Sep 26 2012, 10:10pm
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Thorin an Great Goblin action figure
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Fàfnir
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Sep 26 2012, 11:10pm
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I really don't like this Bolg vs. Gandalf thing. But that maybe deserves a seperate post.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2012, 11:36pm
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At least we know Gandlf wins ! ^^ /
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Fàfnir
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Sep 26 2012, 11:45pm
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Indeed. Lol. Though it seems more likely they must draw, since Bolg will almost certainly
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2012, 11:51pm
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Bolg
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Carne
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Sep 27 2012, 12:16am
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That statement does not necessarily refer to Gandalf.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 27 2012, 2:16am
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Bolg's opponent
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dave_lf
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Sep 27 2012, 12:38pm
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I agree.
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Fardragon
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Sep 27 2012, 8:51am
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Here is why that doesn't add up or make sense..
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 28 2012, 1:18am
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Also Carne, even by the less than book potent version of Gandalf seen in LOTR
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 28 2012, 1:30am
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What Gandalf CAN do vs. what he wants (or is allowed) to do
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Tim
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Sep 28 2012, 4:41am
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Right
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Sep 28 2012, 4:57am
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I think the Istari
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Fardragon
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Sep 28 2012, 7:53am
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Exactly
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Sep 28 2012, 4:27pm
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They are restrained, and their greater Spiritual power is, seemingly
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 29 2012, 12:46am
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What is vs. reality
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Tim
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Sep 29 2012, 2:04pm
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I think there is something to your speculation. But my issue isn't with the way Tolkien
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 29 2012, 6:39pm
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Tolkien never portrays Gandalf the Grey as that powerful
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Fardragon
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Sep 30 2012, 7:13am
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He was powerful enough though.
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DanielLB
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Sep 30 2012, 10:01am
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Only because
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Fardragon
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Sep 30 2012, 10:10am
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Depends how you define "power"
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DanielLB
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Sep 30 2012, 10:14am
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This is one of the most untrue things I have ever read.
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Fardragon
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Sep 30 2012, 10:30am
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Was Galadriel (Third Age) both very powerful, and very wise? /
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DanielLB
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Sep 30 2012, 10:36am
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But it's wasn't power that made her wise.
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Fardragon
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Sep 30 2012, 10:47am
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Ahh, it seems you misunderstood me then
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DanielLB
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Sep 30 2012, 10:50am
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Wisdom can give you a degree of power
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Fardragon
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Sep 30 2012, 10:55am
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Agreed
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DanielLB
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Sep 30 2012, 11:07am
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I don't think Gandalf
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Fardragon
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Sep 30 2012, 2:16pm
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Only Bard could have defeated him then? /
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DanielLB
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Sep 30 2012, 2:38pm
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In a sense, yes.
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Fardragon
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Sep 30 2012, 4:40pm
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Yes, Bard was "meant" to
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DanielLB
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Sep 30 2012, 4:45pm
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No. Not just because of Thranduil. Tolkien specifically said he had to find somewhere to
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AinurOlorin
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Oct 1 2012, 8:17am
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Gandalf's power
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Fardragon
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Oct 1 2012, 2:49pm
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Some corrections. And sorry about hijacking this post. Amended later.
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AinurOlorin
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Oct 2 2012, 12:55am
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You may hero-worship Gandalf, but it's not consistent with Tolkien
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Fardragon
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Oct 2 2012, 8:05am
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Challenge accepted. You have managed to ignore a lot of passages from the book.
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AinurOlorin
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Oct 3 2012, 12:51am
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He does not blind his opponent with Bright lights. That is a Jackson thing.
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AinurOlorin
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Oct 1 2012, 8:09am
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I don't put anything past Peter Jackson
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Sinister71
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Sep 26 2012, 11:55pm
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AHAHAHAHAHHA. . . . wait. . . wait. . .
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2012, 11:58pm
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LOL
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Sinister71
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Sep 27 2012, 12:06am
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Some tweaking
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Elessar
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Sep 27 2012, 12:22am
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Okay...
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Tim
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Sep 27 2012, 2:25am
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Peter's a fan, too, you know.
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Milknut
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Sep 27 2012, 5:55am
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He is most certainly a fan
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Sep 27 2012, 5:58am
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Sharp words!
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Milknut
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Sep 27 2012, 5:59am
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Not at all
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Sep 27 2012, 6:17am
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Um
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Milknut
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Sep 27 2012, 6:20am
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What point?
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Sep 27 2012, 6:22am
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Because he doesn't want his films to be ridiculous?
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dormouse
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Sep 27 2012, 8:00am
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Interest
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JWPlatt
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Sep 27 2012, 8:21am
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That's true of anyone who does anything artistic...
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dormouse
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Sep 27 2012, 10:11am
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