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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
closing the door on the door-ward

Elthir
Rohan

Sep 9 2012, 7:47pm


Views: 799
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closing the door on the door-ward [In reply to] Can't Post


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(...) I don't think Rumil helps much here; the Lost Tales concept was that the Gnome-folk were stunted and twisted and aged from their long thraldom, as opposed to their 'free' cousins the Eldar (and Turgon's folk); we're a long way from the demi-angelic High Elves of Tolkien's mature writings.



I would generally agree that early concepts could well have been abandoned, but I'm trying to consider even early evidence because it's sometimes hard to know just what Tolkien 'retained' within a new or later context. I myself am not sure if Rumil's look is meant to be due to his hardship under Melko, great age, or both: 'Know you that the Noldoli grow old astoundingly slow, and yet have I grey hairs in the study of all the tongues of the Valar and of Eldar.'

This seems to speak more to age in my opinion. And there's also: 'old in appearance and grey of locks, and few of that folk were so...' Hmm.

Anyway my point would be, if we cannot find any certain evidence of outward ageing in any of the corpus -- simply due to great years I mean -- then it seems (to me) more likely Cirdan might be an anomoly.



Quote
(...) Note that Cirdan isn't just described as bearded, or just grey-haired, but explicitly "old."



I agree he's explicitly described as old, but implied (given the phrasing) that he looks old too.

To split a (grey) hair perhaps Wink



Quote
(...) *Which raises the question of Celeborn, and maybe strengthens the argument that he was a Teler of Alqualonde rather than a Sinda.



Heresy (incidentally)!


Anyway, I realize Cirdan is not even implied to be faded in any way, but if he had been, I think it would have fit easily enough with the ideas found in Morgoth's Ring.


(This post was edited by Elthir on Sep 9 2012, 7:55pm)

Subject User Time
When do Elves stop ageing? iandea14 Send a private message to iandea14 Sep 5 2012, 7:20am
    The closest we can come to answers... Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Sep 5 2012, 8:12am
        Thank you! iandea14 Send a private message to iandea14 Sep 5 2012, 8:24am
        This is interesting, and confusing lol rings7 Send a private message to rings7 Sep 5 2012, 9:54pm
            Yes, that's right! Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Sep 5 2012, 11:34pm
                Cirdan and Fading Noel Q. von Schneiffel Send a private message to Noel Q. von Schneiffel Sep 6 2012, 5:17pm
                    preservation power Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Sep 6 2012, 5:37pm
                        Maybe both happened Noel Q. von Schneiffel Send a private message to Noel Q. von Schneiffel Sep 6 2012, 5:54pm
            Movie might be wrong iandea14 Send a private message to iandea14 Sep 6 2012, 6:59am
            Elrond PhantomS Send a private message to PhantomS Sep 7 2012, 1:34am
                Ageless Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Sep 7 2012, 3:44pm
                    Living at the coast Noel Q. von Schneiffel Send a private message to Noel Q. von Schneiffel Sep 7 2012, 4:21pm
                        You of course meant weathered DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 7 2012, 4:29pm
                            I don't think I'd like to see... Noel Q. von Schneiffel Send a private message to Noel Q. von Schneiffel Sep 7 2012, 4:44pm
                                My degree in Geography isn't wasted!! DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 7 2012, 5:11pm
                                    I see now Noel Q. von Schneiffel Send a private message to Noel Q. von Schneiffel Sep 7 2012, 7:16pm
                                        Erosion and weathering! DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 7 2012, 7:23pm
                        See salt Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Sep 7 2012, 5:40pm
                            Sea water only has about 3% salt in it / DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 7 2012, 5:57pm
                                But there's a lot of water... Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Sep 7 2012, 6:40pm
                                    Mining salt from rock might be easier ;-) / DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 7 2012, 7:10pm
                    Tolkien IIRC wrote Solicitr Send a private message to Solicitr Sep 8 2012, 12:31am
                        innie or outie Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Sep 8 2012, 12:57am
                            Let's face it: Cirdan is an anomaly. Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Sep 8 2012, 2:44am
                                facing Cirdan's face Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Sep 8 2012, 3:59am
                                    Young MEN can have beards Solicitr Send a private message to Solicitr Sep 8 2012, 12:20pm
                                        emphasis more on 'young' men can have beards Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Sep 8 2012, 2:38pm
                                            Fading Solicitr Send a private message to Solicitr Sep 8 2012, 11:18pm
                                                Lingering on this topic a bit Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Sep 9 2012, 12:59am
                                                    I'd say Solicitr Send a private message to Solicitr Sep 9 2012, 3:07am
                                                        I agree but is there a 'wrinkle' in the larger idea Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Sep 9 2012, 2:48pm
                                                            Two parallel concepts Solicitr Send a private message to Solicitr Sep 9 2012, 4:31pm
                                                                closing the door on the door-ward Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Sep 9 2012, 7:47pm
                                                                    Counting the Rings Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Sep 12 2012, 4:31am
    Don't forget Cirdan the Shipwright mandel Send a private message to mandel Sep 5 2012, 11:31pm
    A post from another site i found helpful - hope its ok to do this! imin Send a private message to imin Sep 6 2012, 6:43am
        Quoting others Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Sep 6 2012, 12:26pm
    Tolkien's number Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Sep 6 2012, 9:47pm
    A few more extracts: malickfan Send a private message to malickfan Sep 10 2012, 1:29pm

 
 
 

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