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Elthir
Grey Havens
Sep 9 2012, 7:47pm
Views: 1422
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closing the door on the door-ward
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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(...) I don't think Rumil helps much here; the Lost Tales concept was that the Gnome-folk were stunted and twisted and aged from their long thraldom, as opposed to their 'free' cousins the Eldar (and Turgon's folk); we're a long way from the demi-angelic High Elves of Tolkien's mature writings.
I would generally agree that early concepts could well have been abandoned, but I'm trying to consider even early evidence because it's sometimes hard to know just what Tolkien 'retained' within a new or later context. I myself am not sure if Rumil's look is meant to be due to his hardship under Melko, great age, or both: 'Know you that the Noldoli grow old astoundingly slow, and yet have I grey hairs in the study of all the tongues of the Valar and of Eldar.'
This seems to speak more to age in my opinion. And there's also: 'old in appearance and grey of locks, and few of that folk were so...' Hmm.
Anyway my point would be, if we cannot find any certain evidence of outward ageing in any of the corpus -- simply due to great years I mean -- then it seems (to me) more likely Cirdan might be an anomoly.
(...) Note that Cirdan isn't just described as bearded, or just grey-haired, but explicitly "old."
I agree he's explicitly described as old, but implied (given the phrasing) that he looks old too.
To split a (grey) hair perhaps 
(...) *Which raises the question of Celeborn, and maybe strengthens the argument that he was a Teler of Alqualonde rather than a Sinda.
Heresy (incidentally)!
Anyway, I realize Cirdan is not even implied to be faded in any way, but if he had been, I think it would have fit easily enough with the ideas found in Morgoth's Ring.
(This post was edited by Elthir on Sep 9 2012, 7:55pm)
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Subject
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User
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Time
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When do Elves stop ageing?
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iandea14
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Sep 5 2012, 7:20am
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The closest we can come to answers...
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Elizabeth
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Sep 5 2012, 8:12am
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Thank you!
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iandea14
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Sep 5 2012, 8:24am
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This is interesting, and confusing lol
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rings7
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Sep 5 2012, 9:54pm
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Yes, that's right!
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Elizabeth
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Sep 5 2012, 11:34pm
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Cirdan and Fading
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Noel Q. von Schneiffel
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Sep 6 2012, 5:17pm
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preservation power
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Elthir
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Sep 6 2012, 5:37pm
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Maybe both happened
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Noel Q. von Schneiffel
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Sep 6 2012, 5:54pm
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Movie might be wrong
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iandea14
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Sep 6 2012, 6:59am
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Elrond
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PhantomS
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Sep 7 2012, 1:34am
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Ageless
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Elthir
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Sep 7 2012, 3:44pm
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Living at the coast
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Noel Q. von Schneiffel
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Sep 7 2012, 4:21pm
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You of course meant weathered
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DanielLB
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Sep 7 2012, 4:29pm
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I don't think I'd like to see...
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Noel Q. von Schneiffel
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Sep 7 2012, 4:44pm
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My degree in Geography isn't wasted!!
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DanielLB
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Sep 7 2012, 5:11pm
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I see now
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Noel Q. von Schneiffel
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Sep 7 2012, 7:16pm
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Erosion and weathering!
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DanielLB
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Sep 7 2012, 7:23pm
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See salt
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Elthir
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Sep 7 2012, 5:40pm
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Sea water only has about 3% salt in it /
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DanielLB
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Sep 7 2012, 5:57pm
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But there's a lot of water...
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Elthir
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Sep 7 2012, 6:40pm
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Mining salt from rock might be easier ;-) /
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DanielLB
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Sep 7 2012, 7:10pm
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Tolkien IIRC wrote
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Solicitr
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Sep 8 2012, 12:31am
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innie or outie
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Elthir
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Sep 8 2012, 12:57am
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Let's face it: Cirdan is an anomaly.
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Elizabeth
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Sep 8 2012, 2:44am
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facing Cirdan's face
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Elthir
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Sep 8 2012, 3:59am
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Young MEN can have beards
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Solicitr
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Sep 8 2012, 12:20pm
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emphasis more on 'young' men can have beards
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Elthir
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Sep 8 2012, 2:38pm
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Fading
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Solicitr
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Sep 8 2012, 11:18pm
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Lingering on this topic a bit
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Elthir
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Sep 9 2012, 12:59am
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I'd say
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Solicitr
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Sep 9 2012, 3:07am
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I agree but is there a 'wrinkle' in the larger idea
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Elthir
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Sep 9 2012, 2:48pm
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Two parallel concepts
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Solicitr
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Sep 9 2012, 4:31pm
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closing the door on the door-ward
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Elthir
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Sep 9 2012, 7:47pm
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Counting the Rings
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Elthir
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Sep 12 2012, 4:31am
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Don't forget Cirdan the Shipwright
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mandel
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Sep 5 2012, 11:31pm
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A post from another site i found helpful - hope its ok to do this!
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imin
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Sep 6 2012, 6:43am
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Quoting others
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Elthir
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Sep 6 2012, 12:26pm
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Tolkien's number
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Elthir
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Sep 6 2012, 9:47pm
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A few more extracts:
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malickfan
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Sep 10 2012, 1:29pm
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