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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Some things we should keep in mind

easterlingchief1
Rivendell


Sep 8 2012, 5:36am


Views: 7815
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Some things we should keep in mind [In reply to] Can't Post
1) This is a promo image. If movie trailers have taught us anything, it's that marketing lies. Just because this appears to be a shortened version of the EW scroll doesn't mean the first film will be shortened. On that note...

2) This looks like it's only part of a larger scroll. And I'm not just saying that because it only covers about half of the material that was presented in the EW scroll. I;m saying that because this "new" scroll doesn't have the film's title anywhere, and it seems to end abruptly.

If anything, this tell me whoever is running the Hobbit App had to user a shortened scroll so the huge image would work better on smart phones. THAT, or their holding back on showing off Beorn, Mirkwood, and the Elves until we get closer to release date.

3) If the scroll was supposed to depict the broad strokes of the first film, why have they still left out Goblin Town? Or the Rock Giants (which apparently now have a pretty large moment in the film), or any of the White Council material? This indicates this is NOT everything we'll be seeing in the film.

4) Until somebody sees an actual trailer (not the teaser from December), we won't have any clear idea about what parts of the story AUJ will cover. Until it comes out, I think we ought to simmer down and be patient.

And remember, as long as we see a bear, a spider, elves, or a big, scary Norseman, we'll be in the clear.

Subject User Time
*POTENTIAL SPOILERS* Updated "Unexpected Journey Scroll" Flame of Udun Send a private message to Flame of Udun Sep 8 2012, 2:12am
    no way There&ThereAgain Send a private message to There&ThereAgain Sep 8 2012, 2:15am
    This might confirm it. FiliSonOfDis Send a private message to FiliSonOfDis Sep 8 2012, 2:17am
        still the same on official website BeornBerserker Send a private message to BeornBerserker Sep 8 2012, 2:32am
            I have a feeling Flame of Udun Send a private message to Flame of Udun Sep 8 2012, 2:42am
        Every month something happens to make me less excited. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 8 2012, 4:44am
    You beat me to the punch :) pacochoa Send a private message to pacochoa Sep 8 2012, 2:46am
    Talk about a punch to the gut duats Send a private message to duats Sep 8 2012, 2:54am
    blast! I need to hook up my iphone to my computer to DL it. There&ThereAgain Send a private message to There&ThereAgain Sep 8 2012, 2:55am
    I'll be very dissappointed if that turns out to be the ending. Carne Send a private message to Carne Sep 8 2012, 3:00am
    Ugh... Mooseboy018 Send a private message to Mooseboy018 Sep 8 2012, 3:02am
        shorter movies There&ThereAgain Send a private message to There&ThereAgain Sep 8 2012, 3:05am
            So... Mooseboy018 Send a private message to Mooseboy018 Sep 8 2012, 3:08am
                possibly There&ThereAgain Send a private message to There&ThereAgain Sep 8 2012, 3:10am
            I'm not sure that we will see a change in... Owain Send a private message to Owain Sep 8 2012, 3:10am
                I hope so. Estel78 Send a private message to Estel78 Sep 8 2012, 3:26am
                    They cheatsss us, preciousss! Mooseboy018 Send a private message to Mooseboy018 Sep 8 2012, 3:31am
                        If the ending is the burning trees Carne Send a private message to Carne Sep 8 2012, 3:34am
                        Agreed. There are things you just can't properly take back. What is more, as has been AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 8 2012, 5:48am
            No. Pushing Beorn and Thranduil back does not add to the wonder. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 8 2012, 5:02am
        I have thought this all along... dalecooper Send a private message to dalecooper Sep 8 2012, 3:35am
            But if i remember correctly... Estel78 Send a private message to Estel78 Sep 8 2012, 3:50am
                That's true to some extent dalecooper Send a private message to dalecooper Sep 8 2012, 3:55am
        This does NOT mean shorter films Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 6:22am
            And add to this Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 6:26am
            Agreed... The Grey Wanderer Send a private message to The Grey Wanderer Sep 8 2012, 3:20pm
    Nice catch! Owain Send a private message to Owain Sep 8 2012, 3:02am
    Here's hoping duats Send a private message to duats Sep 8 2012, 3:05am
    It's hard to say // Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Sep 8 2012, 3:07am
    Noticed that as well Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Sep 8 2012, 3:13am
    I wouldn't assume there are only half as many dwarves or that the movie ends at the last part Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Sep 8 2012, 3:24am
    Here's the pictures in higher quality from Owain's thread: Carne Send a private message to Carne Sep 8 2012, 3:25am
        Ah thanks, Carne! Was trying to abide by the rules.// Owain Send a private message to Owain Sep 8 2012, 3:27am
        Dwalin's right ear ... GafferBoffin Send a private message to GafferBoffin Sep 8 2012, 3:48am
    Pretty vile if true HiddenSpring Send a private message to HiddenSpring Sep 8 2012, 3:26am
        Yeah, i'm curious... Estel78 Send a private message to Estel78 Sep 8 2012, 3:33am
            No one is considering that PJ makes stuff up stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Sep 8 2012, 4:06am
                On the contrary... Estel78 Send a private message to Estel78 Sep 8 2012, 4:17am
        Pretty much this duats Send a private message to duats Sep 8 2012, 3:40am
            But to be devil's advocate here... dalecooper Send a private message to dalecooper Sep 8 2012, 3:43am
                Which is why duats Send a private message to duats Sep 8 2012, 3:44am
                    I didn't either - far from it. dalecooper Send a private message to dalecooper Sep 8 2012, 3:48am
                        But look at what we're left with for TDoS now duats Send a private message to duats Sep 8 2012, 3:51am
                            It does seem like a lot dalecooper Send a private message to dalecooper Sep 8 2012, 4:03am
                            Also I'd like to propose a third possible structure dalecooper Send a private message to dalecooper Sep 8 2012, 4:06am
                            The "Desolation of Smaug" does not imply that *spoilers* Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 6:33am
                                *spoilers* dave_lf Send a private message to dave_lf Sep 8 2012, 2:06pm
                                    If this is so rings7 Send a private message to rings7 Sep 8 2012, 3:32pm
                                        The end of DoS... Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Sep 8 2012, 7:08pm
                                            hmmm, i still think the *spoilers* rings7 Send a private message to rings7 Sep 8 2012, 7:30pm
                                                Who knows? It could still happen that way. Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Sep 8 2012, 7:31pm
                                    Movie four *spoilers* Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Sep 8 2012, 4:00pm
    Those of you who say the earlier ending is bad ASTOUND me. Istaris'staffs Send a private message to Istaris'staffs Sep 8 2012, 4:24am
        I still don't think it'll end that early. That scroll could mean anything. Maybe the entire thing was to big to upload? The trailer should give us a good answer as well. Istaris'staffs Send a private message to Istaris'staffs Sep 8 2012, 4:42am
            Agreed DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 8 2012, 7:37am
                I didn't think it was conclusive. . . but if it isn't, then why, oh AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 8 2012, 7:49am
                    I haven't the answers to that DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 8 2012, 7:57am
                        the evidence certainly points in that direction Wandering Ranger Send a private message to Wandering Ranger Sep 8 2012, 8:19am
                            There are occasions when this board puts me in mind of The Crystal Maze Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Sep 8 2012, 9:55am
                    I have seen the scroll on my iPad Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 8:01am
                I dont think it is conclusive either really imin Send a private message to imin Sep 8 2012, 8:27am
        Deja vu mandel Send a private message to mandel Sep 8 2012, 4:51am
            Well said. Istaris'staffs Send a private message to Istaris'staffs Sep 8 2012, 4:54am
            I don't know... Mooseboy018 Send a private message to Mooseboy018 Sep 8 2012, 5:16am
                "what they've done with An Unexpected Journey" easterlingchief1 Send a private message to easterlingchief1 Sep 8 2012, 5:25am
                    I hope I'm wrong. Mooseboy018 Send a private message to Mooseboy018 Sep 8 2012, 5:28am
                        Where did that "rumor" come from? easterlingchief1 Send a private message to easterlingchief1 Sep 8 2012, 5:40am
                            I put it in black and white MrCere Send a private message to MrCere Sep 10 2012, 3:31am
                            MrCere speculated about it a while back (Aug 1) Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 10 2012, 3:42am
                                That and Lacrimae Rerum's observation in SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Sep 10 2012, 3:59am
                        That's because Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 6:46am
                    Here, here There&ThereAgain Send a private message to There&ThereAgain Sep 8 2012, 5:49am
                        this confirms nothing lidlessEye Send a private message to lidlessEye Sep 8 2012, 5:54am
                            I DID realize. Mooseboy018 Send a private message to Mooseboy018 Sep 8 2012, 5:56am
                                I really don't think There&ThereAgain Send a private message to There&ThereAgain Sep 8 2012, 6:01am
                                    My love for that man would tenfold if this were true DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 8 2012, 7:39am
                                well lidlessEye Send a private message to lidlessEye Sep 8 2012, 6:01am
            Deja vu, indeed, Mandel. Lissuin Send a private message to Lissuin Sep 8 2012, 5:38am
                Yes, Lissuin, it's true... mandel Send a private message to mandel Sep 8 2012, 6:03am
                    hey hey There&ThereAgain Send a private message to There&ThereAgain Sep 8 2012, 6:08am
                        There&ThereAgain, I didn't mean the 'nerd rage' comment to be hostile... mandel Send a private message to mandel Sep 8 2012, 6:49am
            Some seem to be floating on the assumption that Peter is some manner of infallible AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 8 2012, 6:24am
                AinurOrolin, I don't have to think PJ... mandel Send a private message to mandel Sep 8 2012, 6:44am
                    Its Olorin. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 8 2012, 6:59am
        Yes it's BAD. For a simple, simple reason. Faenoriel Send a private message to Faenoriel Sep 8 2012, 10:19am
            Just means there is even more to look forward to in films 2 and 3. imin Send a private message to imin Sep 8 2012, 10:26am
                In the far off distant future of 2015 I might be happy about this Faenoriel Send a private message to Faenoriel Sep 8 2012, 10:33am
                    I wonder of this is why they've held back on showing him DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 8 2012, 10:56am
                        Perhaps Thranduil will be seen in AUJ in some other way? Faenoriel Send a private message to Faenoriel Sep 8 2012, 12:28pm
                            We could certainly first see Thranduil Lissuin Send a private message to Lissuin Sep 8 2012, 1:39pm
                                I really hope so, cause i think they're gonna do like in the LOTR trilogy rings7 Send a private message to rings7 Sep 8 2012, 3:27pm
                            I liked the idea that we will see Thranduil DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 8 2012, 1:52pm
            Yes, Faenoriel, Lissuin Send a private message to Lissuin Sep 8 2012, 11:42am
    I don't know. The actual scroll with the magnifier on the EW. site has remained the same. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 8 2012, 4:47am
        Marketing Mooseboy018 Send a private message to Mooseboy018 Sep 8 2012, 4:52am
    There is a lot to look forward to in these movies! Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Sep 8 2012, 5:17am
    One of the main reasons I don't want to see the film end this early is that... thomasofrohan Send a private message to thomasofrohan Sep 8 2012, 5:32am
    Some things we should keep in mind easterlingchief1 Send a private message to easterlingchief1 Sep 8 2012, 5:36am
    this is the first time I've been disappointed by news lurtz2010 Send a private message to lurtz2010 Sep 8 2012, 5:40am
    I really, really want to say I told you so Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 6:14am
        It doesn't. And I hope our fears prove false, and this is indeed naught but an AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 8 2012, 6:32am
        people can't have it both ways Demosthenes Send a private message to Demosthenes Sep 8 2012, 7:56am
            The difference is Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 8:07am
                I am not going to say much, because it is unwise to speak in heat. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 8 2012, 8:15am
                Well, it looks like you were right, SA... dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Sep 8 2012, 8:19am
                    Exactly Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 8:29am
                    Hmmm SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Sep 8 2012, 5:29pm
    I guess my 80% reliable source Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 6:39am
        i was bloody right Demosthenes Send a private message to Demosthenes Sep 8 2012, 6:52am
        I think the uneasy feeling in my stomach, paired with my profound irritation at the notion AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 8 2012, 6:56am
            Not necessarily a cliffhanger Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 7:03am
                "WHY DIDN'T THE EAGLES TAKE THEM?!?!?" Mooseboy018 Send a private message to Mooseboy018 Sep 8 2012, 7:05am
                    I'm not spending another year explaining Eagle pride to friends! FiliSonOfDis Send a private message to FiliSonOfDis Sep 8 2012, 7:53am
                    And why are these hobbits always so intent on journeying to lone mountains anyway? // dave_lf Send a private message to dave_lf Sep 8 2012, 2:03pm
    Also Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 6:41am
        TheOneRing.net link Demosthenes Send a private message to Demosthenes Sep 8 2012, 6:49am
            Thanks! Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 6:55am
                subject Demosthenes Send a private message to Demosthenes Sep 8 2012, 6:58am
                    Based on the lighting Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 7:07am
            updated with Carne's images Demosthenes Send a private message to Demosthenes Sep 8 2012, 7:22am
    Thanks for linking these! DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 8 2012, 7:16am
        Also, I wonder if these were the pictures shown at Dragon*Con? DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 8 2012, 7:21am
    Ignoring this split business, I want to talk about the pictures! Some thoughts: DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 8 2012, 8:12am
        I also love Balin Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 8:20am
            Even if they messed up the rest of the Dwarf designs DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 8 2012, 8:23am
        And... DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 8 2012, 8:21am
            He could easily put the rune on a new staff. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 8 2012, 8:29am
                True DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 8 2012, 8:38am
            That looks like the G rune in mirror image... Earl Send a private message to Earl Sep 8 2012, 8:37am
            "Baruk Khazad", I believe. Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Sep 8 2012, 11:21am
                Thanks Macfeast! DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 8 2012, 2:02pm
                Spot on Macfeast! DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 9 2012, 3:21pm
        The photos are great! imin Send a private message to imin Sep 8 2012, 8:24am
    If the first film does end that early Alientraveller Send a private message to Alientraveller Sep 8 2012, 9:15am
        Not so much, IMO Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 9:35am
            If we are talking early splits macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Sep 8 2012, 9:51am
                I would also like to see Persbrandt sooner rather than later Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 8 2012, 9:56am
                    No climaxe needed macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Sep 8 2012, 10:03am
    The app is amazing but this is way too disapointing rings7 Send a private message to rings7 Sep 8 2012, 11:19am
    Some more pictures can be found here... Estel78 Send a private message to Estel78 Sep 8 2012, 12:30pm
        The more I see of Fili, Oin, Balin and Dwalin Faenoriel Send a private message to Faenoriel Sep 8 2012, 12:53pm
        HOLY SHIP! Pipe Dream Send a private message to Pipe Dream Sep 8 2012, 12:57pm
        FYI. Pipe Dream Send a private message to Pipe Dream Sep 8 2012, 1:11pm
            Strange, i have Avast, too, but no warning. // Estel78 Send a private message to Estel78 Sep 8 2012, 1:12pm
                Avast! here too with no warning, perhaps you have to click on stuff while there. // SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Sep 8 2012, 3:30pm
                Weird. Pipe Dream Send a private message to Pipe Dream Sep 8 2012, 5:08pm
        Loving the pictures! DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 8 2012, 1:54pm
        Kili must be conceived of as half-elven. // SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Sep 8 2012, 3:29pm
            Kili, the antidwarven. // Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Sep 8 2012, 4:02pm
    Anyone posted the full banner yet in its new form? Here it is... Estel78 Send a private message to Estel78 Sep 8 2012, 1:19pm
    this is aweful news architecthis Send a private message to architecthis Sep 8 2012, 1:48pm
    This is what I get for sleeping . . . TomthePilgrim Send a private message to TomthePilgrim Sep 8 2012, 2:00pm
        It's all a dream *waves arms around the air* DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 8 2012, 2:05pm
            I may just go back to bed . . . TomthePilgrim Send a private message to TomthePilgrim Sep 8 2012, 2:20pm
                Er.... dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Sep 8 2012, 4:21pm
                    to me, yes . . . TomthePilgrim Send a private message to TomthePilgrim Sep 8 2012, 5:04pm
                        Interesting Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Sep 8 2012, 5:37pm
                    wasn't sure I was going to like the films . . . TomthePilgrim Send a private message to TomthePilgrim Sep 8 2012, 6:10pm
                        Hmmm - OK dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Sep 8 2012, 6:25pm
                    Translation = I am not upset, so you shouldn't be either??? AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 8 2012, 9:41pm
                        Im one of those who *always* praises PJ no matter what rings7 Send a private message to rings7 Sep 8 2012, 10:29pm
                            I understand exactly how you feel about the films. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 9 2012, 7:46am
                                pretty much rings7 Send a private message to rings7 Sep 10 2012, 2:30am
                                    Wait until you see the new trailer Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 10 2012, 2:48am
                                        I think for alot of people Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Sep 10 2012, 2:57am
                                            Don't agree at all Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Sep 10 2012, 3:09am
                                                reply imin Send a private message to imin Sep 10 2012, 12:08pm
                                            Interestingly, with each change Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 10 2012, 3:19am
                                                Even Zombie Azog? ;) kzer_za Send a private message to kzer_za Sep 10 2012, 12:58pm
                                        i hope rings7 Send a private message to rings7 Sep 10 2012, 5:03am
                        No, absolutely not... dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Sep 8 2012, 10:52pm
    Not enough material? SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Sep 8 2012, 3:11pm
        That is a masterclass Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Sep 8 2012, 3:32pm
            A smiley would have been nice SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Sep 8 2012, 4:16pm
                Oh I don't do smileys Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Sep 8 2012, 4:24pm
    Assuming the scroll is accurate, where does the last panel represent? The Grey Wanderer Send a private message to The Grey Wanderer Sep 8 2012, 3:53pm
        I think it is part of the same scene. Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Sep 8 2012, 4:03pm
            Likely, but then it is inconsistent with the remainder of the scroll... The Grey Wanderer Send a private message to The Grey Wanderer Sep 8 2012, 4:23pm
                I would guess Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Sep 8 2012, 4:29pm
                    If I remember rightly DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 8 2012, 4:33pm
    Smoke and Mirrors. lyndomiel Send a private message to lyndomiel Sep 8 2012, 4:11pm
        Why would it be any different to the first scroll? Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Sep 8 2012, 4:15pm
            marketing lyndomiel Send a private message to lyndomiel Sep 8 2012, 4:49pm
                No. I don't think this is at all credible. Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Sep 8 2012, 4:54pm
    So, we're getting about 1/3 of the content in Film 1 we would have had TH stayed a duology? Oh, great. // Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Sep 8 2012, 5:24pm
        Wait, if they're only using 1/3 of the original content SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Sep 8 2012, 5:56pm
            No, it just means that the narrative is going to be lacking in at least one film and crammed into the other(s)... Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Sep 8 2012, 6:04pm
            Gold Star Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Sep 8 2012, 6:04pm
                A far more elegant solution SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Sep 8 2012, 6:18pm
                    Yes, this must be the end! Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Sep 8 2012, 6:26pm
                        Sorry I missed your earlier post SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Sep 8 2012, 6:57pm
                            I'm having trouble keeping up as well. Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Sep 8 2012, 7:38pm
                Except equations aren't representative of narrative content/storytelling Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Sep 8 2012, 6:22pm
                    no maths I promise Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Sep 8 2012, 6:42pm
                        It is likely that a lot of extraneous material which either would have been cut/trimmed, or relegated to an EE, will be present in the theatrical trilogy... Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Sep 8 2012, 6:53pm
                    1/4 of the entire story you say? SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Sep 8 2012, 8:27pm
                    So what? marillaraina Send a private message to marillaraina Sep 8 2012, 11:37pm
                        And IMO Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 9 2012, 12:25am
                            IA marillaraina Send a private message to marillaraina Sep 9 2012, 6:40am
                        Well Said !!!// Gimli1252 Send a private message to Gimli1252 Sep 9 2012, 6:55am
                        main issue (for me) Mooseboy018 Send a private message to Mooseboy018 Sep 9 2012, 8:26am
    I think this is a good thing Jeremy Send a private message to Jeremy Sep 8 2012, 6:22pm
    *spoiler* is in the first movie morro91 Send a private message to morro91 Sep 9 2012, 6:50am
    What I wrote Aug. 2 MrCere Send a private message to MrCere Sep 10 2012, 6:16am
        It has to get further than the rescue. They have to at least AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 11 2012, 6:45am

 
 
 

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