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Elthir
Grey Havens
Sep 6 2012, 12:26pm
Views: 2285
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'(...) It's a complicated subject, but considering external chronology, I tend to think Tolkien had altered all this for a simpler scenario: that Elves grew at much the same rate as Men, until reaching their mature bodies.' Originally posted by Galin at The Lord of the Rings Plaza, Tolkien Fanatics Forum
I think it's ok to quote someone, but maybe put the text in quotes or link to the actual page, or perhaps include the person's name (like here), whether a 'real' name or not. But I agree, the idea found in Laws and Customs Among The Eldar appears to be only one answer among others. Tolkien sometimes changed his mind!
It might be remotely possible that all these ideas could be parts of the same idea, the notion being: a rate of growth that dwindled in Middle-earth as time passed, if the rate rather drastically altered in Middle-earth over time that is: thus 3,000 or so years very early on (and in Aman), but after time the Elves matured faster and faster, and at some point this rate reduced to 50 or 100 years, perhaps at the time of Finrod's conversation with Andreth* -- and even later, the Eldar ultimately grew at much the same rate as Men.
I think that's much less likely than Tolkien simply changing his mind however, as 3,000-ish to about the same rate as Men is quite the change internally! It was probably easier to keep track of chronology if Elves simply matured at the same rate as Men, but that's a total guess as to why Tolkien seems to have later headed that way.
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* 'This I can well believe,' said Finrod: 'That your bodies suffer in some measure the malice of Melkor. For you live in Arda Marred, as do we, and all the matter of Arda is tainted by him, before ye or we came forth and drew our hroar and their sustenance therefrom: all save only Aman before he came there. For know it is not otherwise with the Quendi themselves: their health and stature is diminished. Already those of us who dwell in Middle-earth, and even we who have returned to it, find that the change* [*the word change was an emendation to the typescript B (only); the manuscript has growth -- footnote by CJRT] of their bodies is swifter than in the beginning. And that, I judge, must forebode that they will prove less strong to last than they were designed to be, though this may not be clearly revealed for many long years.'
Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth (and see Author's note 7 on the Commentary)
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Subject
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User
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Time
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When do Elves stop ageing?
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iandea14
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Sep 5 2012, 7:20am
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The closest we can come to answers...
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Elizabeth
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Sep 5 2012, 8:12am
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Thank you!
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iandea14
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Sep 5 2012, 8:24am
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This is interesting, and confusing lol
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rings7
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Sep 5 2012, 9:54pm
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Yes, that's right!
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Elizabeth
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Sep 5 2012, 11:34pm
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Cirdan and Fading
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Noel Q. von Schneiffel
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Sep 6 2012, 5:17pm
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preservation power
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Elthir
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Sep 6 2012, 5:37pm
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Maybe both happened
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Noel Q. von Schneiffel
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Sep 6 2012, 5:54pm
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Movie might be wrong
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iandea14
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Sep 6 2012, 6:59am
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Elrond
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PhantomS
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Sep 7 2012, 1:34am
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Ageless
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Elthir
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Sep 7 2012, 3:44pm
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Living at the coast
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Noel Q. von Schneiffel
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Sep 7 2012, 4:21pm
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You of course meant weathered
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DanielLB
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Sep 7 2012, 4:29pm
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I don't think I'd like to see...
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Noel Q. von Schneiffel
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Sep 7 2012, 4:44pm
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My degree in Geography isn't wasted!!
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DanielLB
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Sep 7 2012, 5:11pm
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I see now
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Noel Q. von Schneiffel
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Sep 7 2012, 7:16pm
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Erosion and weathering!
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DanielLB
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Sep 7 2012, 7:23pm
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See salt
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Elthir
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Sep 7 2012, 5:40pm
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Sea water only has about 3% salt in it /
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DanielLB
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Sep 7 2012, 5:57pm
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But there's a lot of water...
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Elthir
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Sep 7 2012, 6:40pm
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Mining salt from rock might be easier ;-) /
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DanielLB
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Sep 7 2012, 7:10pm
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Tolkien IIRC wrote
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Solicitr
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Sep 8 2012, 12:31am
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innie or outie
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Elthir
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Sep 8 2012, 12:57am
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Let's face it: Cirdan is an anomaly.
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Elizabeth
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Sep 8 2012, 2:44am
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facing Cirdan's face
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Elthir
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Sep 8 2012, 3:59am
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Young MEN can have beards
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Solicitr
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Sep 8 2012, 12:20pm
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emphasis more on 'young' men can have beards
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Elthir
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Sep 8 2012, 2:38pm
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Fading
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Solicitr
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Sep 8 2012, 11:18pm
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Lingering on this topic a bit
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Elthir
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Sep 9 2012, 12:59am
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I'd say
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Solicitr
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Sep 9 2012, 3:07am
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I agree but is there a 'wrinkle' in the larger idea
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Elthir
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Sep 9 2012, 2:48pm
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Two parallel concepts
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Solicitr
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Sep 9 2012, 4:31pm
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closing the door on the door-ward
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Elthir
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Sep 9 2012, 7:47pm
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Counting the Rings
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Elthir
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Sep 12 2012, 4:31am
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Don't forget Cirdan the Shipwright
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mandel
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Sep 5 2012, 11:31pm
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A post from another site i found helpful - hope its ok to do this!
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imin
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Sep 6 2012, 6:43am
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Quoting others
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Elthir
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Sep 6 2012, 12:26pm
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Tolkien's number
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Elthir
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Sep 6 2012, 9:47pm
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A few more extracts:
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malickfan
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Sep 10 2012, 1:29pm
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