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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
It could, or it could enhance both trilogies into one continuous story.

Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 4 2012, 7:09pm


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It could, or it could enhance both trilogies into one continuous story. [In reply to] Can't Post

by placing the story in its larger context. There are those who are worried about The Hobbit being overshadowed, and when the third movie was announced, there were those who then became worried that the LOTR trilogy would be overshadowed by the adaptation of the much-shorter and "simpler" Hobbit. But I'm beginning to think that if they play their cards right both stories might get justice.

I think we have to take it as definite that the "original" stand-alone Hobbit (that it was written before and unconnected to LOTR) is not going to happen. Clearly we are getting the post-LOTR revised Riddles in the Dark version of The Hobbit. That being so, what is the larger context? Tolkien himself said that the Ring was the obvious connection point when he went to write another story about Hobbits. And the second tie-in is the disguised Sauron in Dol Guldur who pulls Gandalf away from the main story of The Hobbit. What we may be getting here is the Rise and Fall of Sauron in six parts.

Hobbit, Part 1: Gandalf is worried about the stories he's heard about the Necromancer. He goes to investigate, discovers his identity and meets Thrain. He cannot convince the White Council to move (as Saruman speaks against it). But he hears that Thorin is planning a raid on Smaug. At least he can inconvenience any plans Sauron might have had to make use of a dragon to subdue/intimidate the north. He provides Thorin with a map, a key, a Burglar, and his own escort as far as Mirkwood, where he goes off to confer with Radagast. The White Council meets. Movie motivation: Nazgul weaponry proves to the White Council that they need to make a move.

Hobbit, Part 2: Thorin and Co stir up trouble all along the way. They get captured by goblins, killing the Great Goblin in the process and dragging the whole population of Goblin Town out to war. Bilbo finds a strange Ring and meets a strange creature. Gandalf is puzzled by Bilbo's newfound invisibility trick but has a few more urgent things on his mind just then, such as what Sauron is up to. The dwarves the proceed to involve Beorn and annoy the Elves and Laketown on their way to annoy Smaug. Bilbo, using his new Ring then proceeds to use to stir up Smaug, getting him out of his mountain, and appropriates the Arkenstone. Smaug is killed and Laketown and the Elves are stirred up to war. Meanwhile, Gandalf persuades the White Council to annoy the Necromancer. They battle, but (my personal theory here) the Necromancer takes advantage of the goblins tracking Thorin and Co. as a diversion, using them to distract and draw off Gandalf while he makes his pre-planned escape.

Hobbit, Part 3: Smaug is dead, but everyone hates Thorin. Goblins from Goblin Town, Elves from Mirkwood, Men from Laketown and a probable northern contingent of goblins from Mt. Gundabad converge on the Lonely Mountain. Gandalf hurries to get there before things go up. Thorin sends for help from Dain of the Iron Hills. Bilbo hides the Arkenstone and uses it as leverage. The Battle of Five (or so) Armies is fought. Bilbo survives, Thorin does not. Bilbo returns to the Shire and tries to pick up his life again. Sauron begins rebuilding his domain in Mordor in secret...

The Lord of the Rings, Part 1: Bilbo is old, eccentric, and is writing a book of his adventures, but he's itching to travel again and feeling that something's not right. He plans a joke, a retirement and an adventure all rolled into one. He leaves his old life, including the Ring, to Frodo and heads off to Rivendell. Sauron captures Gollum, and dispatches the Nine to find Baggins. Gandalf discovers the truth about the Ring, the Nine, and about Saruman. He and Elrond decide the Ring cannot be hidden or lost again, but must be destroyed. Bilbo passes on his sword, his mail and his story to Frodo. The Fellowship is formed, and sets out. Gandalf falls, Gollum follows, and Boromir falls. The Fellowship breaks.

The Lord of the Rings, Part 2: The War of the Ring begins. Sauron begins to mass his troops and sets out to take the fords of Osgiliath, while Saruman sends the Wild Men and Uruk-Hai against Rohan. Frodo and Sam join up with Gollum and meet Faramir on their way toward Mordor. Saruman's hold on Theoden is broken. He sends his army to destroy Rohan but they are destroyed instead at Helm's Deep. Merry and Pippin are captured by Saruman's Uruk-Hai and stir up the Ents to destroy Isengard and end his usefulness to Sauron. Sauron prepares to launch his final attack.

The Lord of the Rings, Part 3: All armies converge on Minas Tirith. Aragorn triggers Sauron's attack via the Palantir and summons the Oathbreakers. Minas Tirith is saved for the moment. Frodo and Sam bypass Minas Morgul as the armies march out but are betrayed by Gollum in Shelob's Lair and Frodo is captured by Mordor orcs. Sam aids his escape, but Sauron gains Frodo's mithril mail as a bargaining chip. Aragorn stages a feint to draw out Sauron's army and give Frodo a clear path to Mount Doom. The Ring is destroyed, Gollum dies, Mordor falls. Sauron is destroyed. The King Returns. Frodo continues Bilbo's book with his part of the Tale. Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf, Bilbo and Frodo take ship to the Undying Lands. Sam goes home (and finishes Bilbo's book).

Seen this way, all six movies make for one continuous story, and I don't think either needs overshadow the other. Bilbo's adventure was certainly of key importance to what came after, and Frodo's story is a continuation of what began during Bilbo's adventure. "Bookend" scenes may be entirely appropriate here, as the tale in its entirety is told in the Red Book - written by all three Ringbearers in turn.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories

(This post was edited by Silverlode on Aug 4 2012, 7:31pm)

Subject User Time
Greenbooks guest post: in defense of a Hobbit trilogy News from Bree Send a private message to News from Bree Aug 3 2012, 9:33pm
    Excellent write-up... Maiarmike Send a private message to Maiarmike Aug 4 2012, 4:29am
        Seems perfect JayFank Send a private message to JayFank Aug 4 2012, 4:06pm
    EXCELLENT Buchanicus Send a private message to Buchanicus Aug 4 2012, 5:32am
    Excellent Article! Istaris'staffs Send a private message to Istaris'staffs Aug 4 2012, 5:58am
    The is great! DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Aug 4 2012, 8:21am
    Wow! TheBeerBaron Send a private message to TheBeerBaron Aug 4 2012, 9:03am
    Jackson should hire this guy guitarzankansasfan Send a private message to guitarzankansasfan Aug 4 2012, 9:48am
    Where can I find more TheBeerBaron Send a private message to TheBeerBaron Aug 4 2012, 10:27am
    Congratulations! This is by far the best post/article I've ever read on TORn kiwifan Send a private message to kiwifan Aug 4 2012, 11:23am
    I have to disagree... Spaldron Send a private message to Spaldron Aug 4 2012, 12:53pm
        But LOTR movie Bilbo has no connection with dwarves at all. Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Aug 5 2012, 4:21am
    This is amazing. DesiringDragons Send a private message to DesiringDragons Aug 4 2012, 1:04pm
    If they include the events of the War in the North - Hanzkaz Aug 4 2012, 1:06pm
        No ... just no ... ;-) DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Aug 4 2012, 1:09pm
        I agree that there is enough for 4 movies. Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Aug 4 2012, 2:08pm
            Sorry - this article was so exciting Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Aug 4 2012, 2:13pm
        I do believe that Warner Brothers only has the rights to make three movies. Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Aug 4 2012, 2:29pm
            Not so Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful Aug 4 2012, 2:50pm
                Thanks VF Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Aug 4 2012, 3:09pm
                    He said that about The Hobbit DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Aug 4 2012, 3:11pm
                    I would be shocked if Jackson directed any further Middle-earth films after this Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful Aug 4 2012, 3:12pm
                        I can't imagine more films after this either. DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Aug 4 2012, 3:22pm
                        I wonder what other work of Tolkien's could successfully be adapted to film...? Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Aug 4 2012, 4:18pm
                            Going by the Appendices - Hanzkaz Aug 4 2012, 4:51pm
                                Would love to see a story dealing with the explored regions of ME... Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Aug 4 2012, 5:11pm
                                    I'd prefer a brief reference to the war in the north be included in the existing films than that a stand-alone film be made Bladerunner Send a private message to Bladerunner Aug 4 2012, 5:23pm
                            Wasn't me (assuming you mean me, and not another Daniel). DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Aug 4 2012, 5:45pm
                Certain Amount Of Tme JWPlatt Aug 4 2012, 5:10pm
                    Answer and perhaps another conspiracy theory SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Aug 4 2012, 5:30pm
                        Ack! That's twice today I've spelled "rationale" as "rational" SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Aug 4 2012, 5:47pm
                    A good question Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful Aug 4 2012, 6:02pm
                        LOL. Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Aug 4 2012, 6:06pm
                        Doesn't it strictly forbid the use of the character Glorfindel Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Aug 4 2012, 6:43pm
                        LOL II JWPlatt Aug 4 2012, 6:56pm
                            At your own risk Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful Aug 4 2012, 6:59pm
                        Desolation of Smaug Sunflower Send a private message to Sunflower Aug 5 2012, 4:56am
    Bravo! I'm sold! Let me count the ways. Ruxendil_Thoorg Send a private message to Ruxendil_Thoorg Aug 4 2012, 1:47pm
        I hope it convinces others as well DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Aug 4 2012, 2:04pm
    Um.... What? GoodGuyA Send a private message to GoodGuyA Aug 4 2012, 2:03pm
        See this thread DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Aug 4 2012, 2:09pm
            I still doubt it's Gimli. Love his voice though! GoodGuyA Send a private message to GoodGuyA Aug 4 2012, 2:11pm
                Whether it is a physical role or just a voice cameo DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Aug 4 2012, 2:12pm
    As a matter of preference, Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Aug 4 2012, 2:20pm
    Brilliant speculation! I hope the actual films are close to this as it Eruonen Send a private message to Eruonen Aug 4 2012, 2:57pm
    Well done Black Breathalizer Send a private message to Black Breathalizer Aug 4 2012, 3:20pm
    In all of this I hope that "The Hobbit" does not get lost. Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Aug 4 2012, 3:45pm
        It could, or it could enhance both trilogies into one continuous story. Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Aug 4 2012, 7:09pm
            Agree completely with this Silverlode DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Aug 4 2012, 7:22pm
                Looking at it... Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Aug 4 2012, 7:41pm
            I thought it might be interesting - Hanzkaz Aug 4 2012, 7:26pm
            This is brilliant speculation Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Aug 4 2012, 7:47pm
                The "quiet bits" Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Aug 4 2012, 8:26pm
    Again well-written article, however Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Aug 4 2012, 3:50pm
        Since it's been described as a third Hobbit film DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Aug 4 2012, 4:14pm
    The strength of the proposal SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Aug 4 2012, 4:50pm
        "Killed by pirates is good" ;) DesiringDragons Send a private message to DesiringDragons Aug 4 2012, 5:19pm
            That was the same point I was making in a previous post.... Bladerunner Send a private message to Bladerunner Aug 4 2012, 5:34pm
                Apologies for having missed that. DesiringDragons Send a private message to DesiringDragons Aug 4 2012, 5:38pm
                Well if film 2 is to focus on Smaug SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Aug 4 2012, 5:42pm
            Only if they're "man-in-suit" -- SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Aug 4 2012, 7:52pm
    Two Disagreements.... Bladerunner Send a private message to Bladerunner Aug 4 2012, 4:50pm
        I don't want Sauron to be at the Battle of Five Armies Hanzkaz Aug 4 2012, 4:57pm
            I'd prefer that the killings of the Azog, the Great Goblin, and Smaug would be enough motivation for teh Goblins and Wargs.... Bladerunner Send a private message to Bladerunner Aug 4 2012, 5:13pm
                I wouldn't be surprised if Azog and his crew - Hanzkaz Aug 4 2012, 5:18pm
        Back when Benedict Cumberbatch Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Aug 4 2012, 5:39pm
            I like that approach also... Bladerunner Send a private message to Bladerunner Aug 4 2012, 5:57pm
    A third film's impact on Film 2 Black Breathalizer Send a private message to Black Breathalizer Aug 4 2012, 5:19pm
    That third film still seems like a drag HiddenSpring Send a private message to HiddenSpring Aug 4 2012, 8:24pm
        Film 3 will likely include more than BOFA, IMO Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Aug 4 2012, 8:31pm
            Film 3 has other key events.... Bladerunner Send a private message to Bladerunner Aug 4 2012, 10:21pm
                Good article Yngwulff Send a private message to Yngwulff Aug 4 2012, 10:25pm
    Contents Lurker in the Dark Send a private message to Lurker in the Dark Aug 5 2012, 3:06am
        Film 2 Yngwulff Send a private message to Yngwulff Aug 5 2012, 3:22am
        Interesting theory about Bard and Tauriel... SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Aug 5 2012, 3:24am
            Isn't Bard married? Yngwulff Send a private message to Yngwulff Aug 5 2012, 3:30am
                Ah yes, but no (living) wife as far as I've heard SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Aug 5 2012, 3:35am
                    Could imply Yngwulff Send a private message to Yngwulff Aug 5 2012, 3:40am
            Contents Lurker in the Dark Send a private message to Lurker in the Dark Aug 5 2012, 7:20am
                Why Gandalf chose Bilbo *SPOILER - COMIC CON FOOTAGE* Kassandros Send a private message to Kassandros Aug 6 2012, 4:35pm
        Frodo being meant to have the Ring.. Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Aug 5 2012, 4:04am
            Unless Kili is revealed to be half-elven... SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Aug 5 2012, 4:24am
                *snort* Well at least... Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Aug 5 2012, 4:33am
                    I just had a terrible thought... TheBeerBaron Send a private message to TheBeerBaron Aug 6 2012, 6:51am
                        Tauriel and Kili DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Aug 6 2012, 7:14am
                            I thought we figured that was in jest TheBeerBaron Send a private message to TheBeerBaron Aug 6 2012, 7:19am
                                It's more real DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Aug 6 2012, 7:32am
                                    Thanks DLB TheBeerBaron Send a private message to TheBeerBaron Aug 6 2012, 7:35am
                                Highly improbable Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Aug 6 2012, 3:27pm
        Prophecy and Tauriel Phibbus Send a private message to Phibbus Aug 5 2012, 4:05am
            Tauriel Lurker in the Dark Send a private message to Lurker in the Dark Aug 5 2012, 7:45am
        Gandalf picking Bilbo BeornBerserker Send a private message to BeornBerserker Aug 5 2012, 4:29am
        Nonsense Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Aug 5 2012, 5:36am
        Tauriel and Bard innoce77 Send a private message to innoce77 Aug 6 2012, 8:33am
            Welcome out of lurkerdom innoce77 SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Aug 6 2012, 5:16pm
                Divinely inspired Black Breathalizer Send a private message to Black Breathalizer Aug 6 2012, 8:24pm
                    Amen Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Aug 6 2012, 11:11pm
                        yes Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Aug 7 2012, 1:24am
                        Love. lol AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Aug 7 2012, 2:56am
        Prophecy appears in several places, most notably from Gandalf and Glorfindel, actually AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Aug 6 2012, 2:20pm
    Still not sure about that third film... Phibbus Send a private message to Phibbus Aug 5 2012, 3:17am
        Hee hee SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Aug 5 2012, 3:32am
            Lucasian Structure JWPlatt Aug 5 2012, 4:39am
                *heh* I can't complain Eowyn of Penns Woods Send a private message to Eowyn of Penns Woods Aug 5 2012, 4:56am
                    Personal Canon JWPlatt Aug 5 2012, 5:11am
                Unconscious Bilbo Phibbus Send a private message to Phibbus Aug 5 2012, 5:06am
            But is it a good idea Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Aug 5 2012, 5:42am
                The structure yes SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Aug 5 2012, 7:06am
                    Makes sense Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Aug 5 2012, 5:15pm
                        Are you messing with me? SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Aug 5 2012, 10:09pm
        I'll give you a big "Amen!" for that last paragraph. Eowyn of Penns Woods Send a private message to Eowyn of Penns Woods Aug 5 2012, 4:38am
    I feel like I'm the odd man out on this. redgiraffe Send a private message to redgiraffe Aug 13 2012, 11:16am

 
 
 

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