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sador
Half-elven
Jan 23 2012, 8:15am
Views: 1720
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From Inside Information - Bilbo sees the hoard for the first time: To say that Bilbo's breath was taken away is no description at all. There are no words left to express his staggerment, since Men changed the language that they learned of elves in the days when all the world was wonderful. Bilbo had heard tell and sing of dragon-hoards before, but the splendour, the lust, the glory of such treasure had never yet come home to him. His heart was filled and pierced with enchantment and with the desire of dwarves; and he gazed motionless, almost forgetting the frightful guardian, at the gold beyond price and count. From Not At Home - the Arkenstone: ...At last he looked down upon it and he caught his breath. The great jewel shone before he feet of its own inner light, and yet, cut and fashioned by the dwarves, who had dug it from the heart of the mountain long ago, it took all light that fell upon it and-changes it into ten thousand sparks of white radiance shot with glints of the rainbow. Suddenly Bilbo's arm went towards it drawn by it enchantment. His small hand would not close about it for it was a large and heavy gem; but he lifted it, shut his eyes, and put it in his deepest pocket. "Now I am a burglar indeed!" thought he. "But I suppose I must tell the dwarves about it-some time. The did say I could pick and choose my own share; and I think I would choose this, if they took all the rest!" All the same he had an uncomfortable feeling that the picking and choosing had not really been meant to include this marvellous gem, and that trouble would yet come of it. Of course he did not tell them anything. From The Gathering of the Clouds - Thorin the Greedy: ...But also he did not reckon with the power that gold has upon which a dragon has long brooded, nor with dwarvish hearts. Long hours in the past days Thorin had spent in the treasury, and the lust of it was heavy on him. Though he had hunted chiefly for the Arkenstone, yet he had an eye for many another wonderful thing that was lying there, about which were wound old memories of the labours and the sorrows of his race. As I mentioned in my response to ShireHorse, it is clear from several references that Tolkien did intend Thorin to become (at this point - and not before!) fallen because of his pride and his greed. But this is not quite what he had written - this happens after sevral days and not immediately; and is qualified by the curse of gold on which a dragon has brooded (Shippey discusses this theme as well); and by the memories of the labours and sorrows of his race. And even so, Thorin's actions are still fair and measured. The only time Tolkien says that his judgment was actually clouded because of the 'bewilderment of treasure' is when after being betrayed and blackmailed into declaring he will ransome the Arkenstone for Bilbo's share, he still considers whether together with Dain's army he could recapture it without bargaining for it. As a last thing, regarding The Hoard - as geordie noted, this poem originated in the 20s, at the time when the Dwarves were viewed by Tolkien as prounncedly evil (if politically often neutral). Even after The Hobbit was published, Tolkien's view of them was softened, but still quite ambivalent, as I've discussed here (questions 8-13, and 16-17). The heroics of Azaghâl were inspired by Thorin, and not the other way round, if you understand what I mean.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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plot hole?
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 21 2012, 3:41pm
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My guess is because it's a suicide mission...
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QuackingTroll
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Jan 21 2012, 3:46pm
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good one on the first
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 21 2012, 3:50pm
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It might have been the folly of greed
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SirDennisC
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Jan 21 2012, 3:53pm
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good one too
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 21 2012, 3:57pm
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That was my thought
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DanielLB
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Jan 21 2012, 3:57pm
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Huh?
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sador
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Jan 22 2012, 5:33pm
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Fair enough
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SirDennisC
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Jan 22 2012, 10:09pm
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Makes no sense.
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Elizabeth
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Jan 21 2012, 6:55pm
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Well Elizabeth, historically and traditionally, Dwarves had fought well against Dragons in battle.
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Xanaseb
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Jan 21 2012, 9:32pm
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Hmmm...
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sueb1863
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Jan 21 2012, 7:14pm
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I thought it was made clear
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ShireHorse
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Jan 21 2012, 8:51pm
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Precisely. yeah, I agree completely with you there.
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Xanaseb
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Jan 21 2012, 9:37pm
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Re lust or greed
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SirDennisC
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Jan 21 2012, 10:04pm
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I think you're right...
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dormouse
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Jan 21 2012, 11:20pm
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But the important part of that line
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 21 2012, 11:32pm
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not sure I agree with you about Lewis
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titanium_hobbit
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Jan 22 2012, 1:56am
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I'm not bashing
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 22 2012, 8:00am
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o.O
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SirDennisC
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Jan 22 2012, 2:13am
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I'm not so sure
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 22 2012, 7:53am
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Dragon-sickness and the bewilderment of gold.
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geordie
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Jan 22 2012, 11:15am
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Perhaps
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SirDennisC
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Jan 22 2012, 10:27pm
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Three relevant quotes:
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sador
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Jan 23 2012, 8:15am
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Those are 3 important quotes, sador,
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ShireHorse
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Jan 23 2012, 5:13pm
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Yes, I agree, though this line
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SirDennisC
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Jan 23 2012, 7:23pm
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thank you too Sir Dennis C and the rest
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 23 2012, 10:03pm
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I once made
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Hamfast Gamgee
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Jan 24 2012, 8:46am
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Yes! But a bit is missing
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sador
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Jan 24 2012, 8:51am
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i feel that could replace the presence of TORN
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 24 2012, 4:18pm
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No, I don't think so...
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dormouse
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Jan 22 2012, 8:53am
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Actually, I do think of Thorin
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ShireHorse
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Jan 22 2012, 2:19pm
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Well, yes, it's a good point...
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dormouse
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Jan 22 2012, 3:53pm
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Thorin did.
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sador
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Jan 22 2012, 5:20pm
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the problem of choose
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 22 2012, 10:40pm
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But the question is:
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 22 2012, 6:00pm
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Agreed 100%
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 21 2012, 10:10pm
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as much as people
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Sinister71
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Jan 21 2012, 10:32pm
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It may just be semantics
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 21 2012, 10:51pm
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I think that Thorin
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ShireHorse
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Jan 21 2012, 11:00pm
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That's another excellent point
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 21 2012, 11:12pm
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Pride, greed, and for that matter lust
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SirDennisC
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Jan 21 2012, 11:25pm
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I strongly disagree
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sador
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Jan 22 2012, 5:55pm
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Disagree with which part?
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SirDennisC
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Jan 22 2012, 9:50pm
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Thorin and his greed for me-SPOILERS-
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 22 2012, 10:03pm
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* (argh, what is it with chrome and linkies anyway?)
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SirDennisC
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Jan 23 2012, 3:45am
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Thank you, Sir Dennis,
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ShireHorse
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Jan 23 2012, 11:30am
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as a king
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 22 2012, 4:33am
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While your analysis is right
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sador
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Jan 22 2012, 5:51pm
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A-greed Agreed, get it?? LOL
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Xanaseb
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Jan 21 2012, 11:51pm
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lol
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 22 2012, 3:12pm
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No.
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sador
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Jan 22 2012, 5:35pm
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One does not simply walk into Erebor
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Alientraveller
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Jan 21 2012, 7:25pm
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I believe
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Sinister71
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Jan 21 2012, 9:42pm
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If you call this a plothole
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sador
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Jan 22 2012, 6:03pm
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i didn´t know Thorin did
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 22 2012, 10:18pm
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The Hobbit is the ultimate heist movie.
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Owain
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Jan 22 2012, 8:51pm
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It is rather
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 22 2012, 9:17pm
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mission "impossible"
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 22 2012, 10:22pm
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Haha! Nice!//
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Owain
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Jan 22 2012, 10:23pm
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I do find it strange that we don't even hear about Dain
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Curious
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Jan 23 2012, 6:43pm
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Anger against the Iron Hills colony?
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Otaku-sempai
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Jan 23 2012, 7:50pm
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Yes.
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Darkstone
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Jan 23 2012, 8:05pm
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Oh, it can be rationalized.
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Curious
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Jan 23 2012, 11:05pm
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Hmmm
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SirDennisC
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Jan 23 2012, 11:29pm
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i´m with you here
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 23 2012, 11:33pm
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Objectives of the quest
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TFP
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Jan 31 2012, 1:19pm
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We do; but without a name, and it doesn't amount to much:
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sador
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Jan 24 2012, 8:42am
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That doesn't even sound like the truth.
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Curious
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Jan 24 2012, 1:52pm
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Sure.
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sador
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Jan 24 2012, 3:09pm
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In re-reading Two Towers
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Rostron2
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Feb 2 2012, 12:45am
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shoeless joe orc
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Feb 2 2012, 11:32am
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