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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Jan 22 2012, 6:00pm
Views: 1804
Shortcut
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What characteristics lead to this greedy desire to hoard the gold? I would say, unequivocally, pride. Thorin is proud of having undertaken a perilous journey across Middle Earth to reclaim his birthright, he is proud of his new self-appointed title as King Under the Mountain, he is proud of having aquired the treasure of his fathers, and he is not about to give any of it up under threat by an army of upstart Lakemen and a gaggle of elves led by the man who sent him and his companions into solitary confinement! To do so – to share his birthright at the point of a sword, would be the ultimate in cowardice and shame, according to Thorin. He feels his very dignity is at stake, and the treasure, in this case, must be protected in order to protect his honor. This is partly why he accuses Bilbo of not understaning “honor.” Yes, Thorin (and all dwarves) have a love for the work of their hands that often gets out of hand and into the territory of “greed.” But even then, that greed is born of being over-proud of either the crafting, or acquisition, of that treasure. Greed is a symptom of pride. People want “stuff” because that stuff enhances their reputation among their peers. It enhances their pride, and decreases their shame. And if someone threatens to take it from them by force, their honor is tested. If they flee or give up, they are cowards. If they stand their ground and fight, they are heroes, and their glory will live on in Valhalla (or in this case, wherever it is that Aule stashes them). Bilbo’s Baggins side represents an alternative to this tragic value system.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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plot hole?
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 21 2012, 3:41pm
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My guess is because it's a suicide mission...
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QuackingTroll
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Jan 21 2012, 3:46pm
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good one on the first
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 21 2012, 3:50pm
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It might have been the folly of greed
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SirDennisC
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Jan 21 2012, 3:53pm
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good one too
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 21 2012, 3:57pm
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That was my thought
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DanielLB
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Jan 21 2012, 3:57pm
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Huh?
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sador
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Jan 22 2012, 5:33pm
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Fair enough
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SirDennisC
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Jan 22 2012, 10:09pm
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Makes no sense.
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Elizabeth
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Jan 21 2012, 6:55pm
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Well Elizabeth, historically and traditionally, Dwarves had fought well against Dragons in battle.
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Xanaseb
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Jan 21 2012, 9:32pm
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Hmmm...
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sueb1863
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Jan 21 2012, 7:14pm
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I thought it was made clear
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ShireHorse
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Jan 21 2012, 8:51pm
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Precisely. yeah, I agree completely with you there.
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Xanaseb
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Jan 21 2012, 9:37pm
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Re lust or greed
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SirDennisC
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Jan 21 2012, 10:04pm
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I think you're right...
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dormouse
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Jan 21 2012, 11:20pm
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But the important part of that line
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 21 2012, 11:32pm
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not sure I agree with you about Lewis
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titanium_hobbit
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Jan 22 2012, 1:56am
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I'm not bashing
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 22 2012, 8:00am
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o.O
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SirDennisC
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Jan 22 2012, 2:13am
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I'm not so sure
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 22 2012, 7:53am
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Dragon-sickness and the bewilderment of gold.
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geordie
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Jan 22 2012, 11:15am
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Perhaps
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SirDennisC
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Jan 22 2012, 10:27pm
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Three relevant quotes:
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sador
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Jan 23 2012, 8:15am
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Those are 3 important quotes, sador,
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ShireHorse
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Jan 23 2012, 5:13pm
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Yes, I agree, though this line
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SirDennisC
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Jan 23 2012, 7:23pm
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thank you too Sir Dennis C and the rest
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 23 2012, 10:03pm
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I once made
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Hamfast Gamgee
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Jan 24 2012, 8:46am
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Yes! But a bit is missing
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sador
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Jan 24 2012, 8:51am
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i feel that could replace the presence of TORN
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 24 2012, 4:18pm
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No, I don't think so...
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dormouse
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Jan 22 2012, 8:53am
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Actually, I do think of Thorin
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ShireHorse
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Jan 22 2012, 2:19pm
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Well, yes, it's a good point...
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dormouse
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Jan 22 2012, 3:53pm
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Thorin did.
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sador
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Jan 22 2012, 5:20pm
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the problem of choose
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 22 2012, 10:40pm
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But the question is:
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 22 2012, 6:00pm
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Agreed 100%
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 21 2012, 10:10pm
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as much as people
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Sinister71
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Jan 21 2012, 10:32pm
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It may just be semantics
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 21 2012, 10:51pm
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I think that Thorin
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ShireHorse
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Jan 21 2012, 11:00pm
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That's another excellent point
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 21 2012, 11:12pm
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Pride, greed, and for that matter lust
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SirDennisC
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Jan 21 2012, 11:25pm
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I strongly disagree
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sador
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Jan 22 2012, 5:55pm
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Disagree with which part?
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SirDennisC
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Jan 22 2012, 9:50pm
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Thorin and his greed for me-SPOILERS-
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 22 2012, 10:03pm
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* (argh, what is it with chrome and linkies anyway?)
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SirDennisC
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Jan 23 2012, 3:45am
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Thank you, Sir Dennis,
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ShireHorse
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Jan 23 2012, 11:30am
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as a king
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 22 2012, 4:33am
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While your analysis is right
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sador
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Jan 22 2012, 5:51pm
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A-greed Agreed, get it?? LOL
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Xanaseb
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Jan 21 2012, 11:51pm
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lol
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 22 2012, 3:12pm
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No.
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sador
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Jan 22 2012, 5:35pm
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One does not simply walk into Erebor
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Alientraveller
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Jan 21 2012, 7:25pm
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I believe
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Sinister71
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Jan 21 2012, 9:42pm
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If you call this a plothole
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sador
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Jan 22 2012, 6:03pm
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i didn´t know Thorin did
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 22 2012, 10:18pm
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The Hobbit is the ultimate heist movie.
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Owain
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Jan 22 2012, 8:51pm
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It is rather
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Jan 22 2012, 9:17pm
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mission "impossible"
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 22 2012, 10:22pm
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Haha! Nice!//
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Owain
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Jan 22 2012, 10:23pm
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I do find it strange that we don't even hear about Dain
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Curious
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Jan 23 2012, 6:43pm
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Anger against the Iron Hills colony?
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Otaku-sempai
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Jan 23 2012, 7:50pm
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Yes.
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Darkstone
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Jan 23 2012, 8:05pm
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Oh, it can be rationalized.
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Curious
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Jan 23 2012, 11:05pm
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Hmmm
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SirDennisC
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Jan 23 2012, 11:29pm
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i´m with you here
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Jan 23 2012, 11:33pm
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Objectives of the quest
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TFP
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Jan 31 2012, 1:19pm
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We do; but without a name, and it doesn't amount to much:
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sador
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Jan 24 2012, 8:42am
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That doesn't even sound like the truth.
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Curious
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Jan 24 2012, 1:52pm
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Sure.
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sador
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Jan 24 2012, 3:09pm
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In re-reading Two Towers
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Rostron2
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Feb 2 2012, 12:45am
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shoeless joe orc
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Feb 2 2012, 11:32am
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