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Curious
Half-elven
Mar 8 2011, 8:08pm
Views: 888
Shortcut
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Let's see, where did I leave off?
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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Oh yes, huorns as beastial. That would mean the Dunlendings come next. I have speculated that Saruman's lies were based on truth, but that isn't always the case. Often lies are created out of whole cloth, and perhaps that is what happened here. As you note, here and later Tolkien portrays the human troops of the Enemy as deceived. It's not so clear that the orcs are deceived, which is one reason why fate does not forgive them. Where and when do the orcs eat people or torture anyone to death? I think that if the ruffians had been left to their own devices, eventually they would rule the Shire as nastily as any orcs. But yes, the distinction between orcs and men remains, even as Tolkien plays with it. I agree that Hama is instantly likeable. He exemplifies one of Tolkien's common themes, that when it comes down to it following orders is no excuse for refusing to exercise judgment. It is necessary for Tolkien's story that all of the main characters except for Boromir and Theoden survive, and that the deaths of Boromir and Theoden are made palatable; until, that is, Frodo essentially "dies" by leaving the Shire forever. I agree that it seems likely the Dunlendings were also given a mound unless they had their own customs and were given leave to follow them. But I find it interesting that Tolkien glosses over the point entirely. Again, there is this contradiction: Tolkien insists on integrating humans into the Enemies armies, but also insists on treating them differently from orcs. I think one reason the huorns remain mysterious is that they are in danger of looking ridiculous, as when you describe them clubbing the orcs with branches. Much better to say that no one will ever know what happened, just like no one can quite see how the forest moves from place to place. Otherwise I picture the apple trees in The Wizard of Oz. Yes, Gimli's speech seems a little out of place. I like to think that he was saving it for the next time Legolas went on about trees. I agree that the economy of Middle-earth does not bear close examination. Yes, although Gandalf protests that he has not yet shown his skill at magic, it seems to me there is something magical about his ability to rally Theoden's troops. Perhaps it doesn't count as magic because he is simply using his angelic charisma. But he does have Narya. More later.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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LotR, Book III Discussion: The Road to Isengard
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Curious
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Feb 27 2011, 1:25pm
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Ok here we have this forest....please keep axes stowed away in the upper compartment or under your seats.....
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PhantomS
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Feb 27 2011, 7:39pm
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That was quick!
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Curious
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Feb 27 2011, 8:27pm
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be hasty!
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PhantomS
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Feb 28 2011, 12:21pm
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I think Tolkien
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Curious
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Mar 3 2011, 3:30pm
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More thoughts about your thoughts.
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Curious
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Mar 3 2011, 10:17pm
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thoughts on thoughts
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PhantomS
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Mar 4 2011, 3:54pm
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Why would the Hornburg be ruled out as a rendezvous?
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Curious
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Mar 4 2011, 6:49pm
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Good idea
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Hamfast Gamgee
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Feb 27 2011, 11:41pm
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A visit to the bad neighbor
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CuriousG
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Feb 28 2011, 1:20am
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You could raise some question of your own,
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Curious
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Feb 28 2011, 1:00pm
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Ents neglecting hobbits
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CuriousG
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Feb 28 2011, 1:27pm
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Excellent question!
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Curious
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Feb 28 2011, 3:29pm
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You must be *this tall* to enter Isengard
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PhantomS
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Mar 2 2011, 1:34am
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A few responses
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sador
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Mar 2 2011, 8:08am
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oh darn
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PhantomS
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Mar 2 2011, 5:02pm
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Good point about the staff.
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Curious
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Mar 5 2011, 6:08am
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The staff is important
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FarFromHome
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Mar 5 2011, 12:26pm
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we need a Bible scholar
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a.s.
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Mar 5 2011, 3:11pm
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I've refered to this once
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sador
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Mar 5 2011, 8:39pm
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I agree about Gandalf's staff.
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Curious
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Mar 6 2011, 9:26pm
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Weather and floods and magic
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CuriousG
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Mar 7 2011, 3:47pm
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Let's see, where did I leave off?
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Curious
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Mar 8 2011, 8:08pm
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Orcs as sadists
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CuriousG
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Mar 9 2011, 5:57pm
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You were right the first time.
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FarFromHome
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Mar 9 2011, 6:06pm
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Ugluk said so.
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sador
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Mar 9 2011, 6:11pm
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He said so twice, actually
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squire
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Mar 9 2011, 8:12pm
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I have also understood so. //
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sador
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Mar 10 2011, 7:10am
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Okay, I guess a distinction
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Curious
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Mar 9 2011, 9:27pm
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Rivendell not a credible choice for a refuge / stronghold
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Felagund
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Mar 9 2011, 10:04pm
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My best rationalization/explanation
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Curious
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Mar 9 2011, 10:41pm
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woe as in malediction; and about those orcs...
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a.s.
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Feb 28 2011, 4:21am
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Well, if "woe" means the Ring,
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Curious
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Mar 9 2011, 11:01pm
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no, not "the Ring", but "something like"
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a.s.
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Mar 9 2011, 11:53pm
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Wright or worng?
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squire
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Mar 10 2011, 1:40am
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Yes, Tolkien didn't take the easy path.
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Curious
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Mar 10 2011, 6:12am
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I will think about this
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a.s.
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Mar 10 2011, 12:59pm
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Aragorn does parlay with the orcs at Helm's Deep.
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Curious
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Mar 10 2011, 1:24pm
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do you mean in theology, or in ME?
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a.s.
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Mar 10 2011, 2:46pm
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As I understand it, mortal sin cannot be forgiven after death.
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Curious
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Mar 10 2011, 3:15pm
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possibly true, but I thought we were talking about
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a.s.
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Mar 10 2011, 10:18pm
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It does make things complicated.
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Curious
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Mar 10 2011, 10:39pm
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Some random answers
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FarFromHome
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Feb 28 2011, 3:33pm
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Cheddar Gorge
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Kimi
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Feb 28 2011, 11:16pm
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Gimli does seem more down to earth,
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Curious
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Mar 10 2011, 4:25pm
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1. Some thoughts and answers to Questions A-Y.
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squire
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Feb 28 2011, 8:55pm
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A score
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FarFromHome
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Feb 28 2011, 9:38pm
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Thanks for adding your own questions!
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Curious
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Feb 28 2011, 10:16pm
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Regarding your extra thoughts
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sador
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Mar 2 2011, 10:01am
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There's bacon
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FarFromHome
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Mar 2 2011, 10:23am
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I finally have the opportunity
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Curious
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Mar 10 2011, 10:00pm
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Orc survivors from Helm's Deep
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Felagund
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Feb 28 2011, 9:49pm
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I did not know that.//
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Curious
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Feb 28 2011, 10:17pm
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Not Helm's Deep - they escaped from the Battles of the Fords of Isen
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squire
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Mar 1 2011, 7:48pm
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Helm's Deep still the best source for the Drúwaith Iaur 'remnant'
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Felagund
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Mar 2 2011, 10:49pm
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Imprisonment not exile.
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N.E. Brigand
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Mar 2 2011, 11:17pm
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Well spotted!
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Felagund
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Mar 3 2011, 12:15am
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2. Some thoughts and answers to Questions Z-ZZ.
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squire
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Mar 1 2011, 12:17am
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The need for a red shirt character
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Elizabeth
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Mar 1 2011, 5:25am
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It's early days yet!
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Hamfast Gamgee
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Mar 4 2011, 10:49am
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Regarding your extra thoughts - part 2
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sador
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Mar 2 2011, 11:17am
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Okay, back to your answers.
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Curious
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Mar 13 2011, 7:10pm
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3. Some thoughts and answers to Questions AAA-ZZZ.
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squire
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Mar 1 2011, 12:56pm
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Great observations
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CuriousG
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Mar 1 2011, 1:50pm
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Regarding your extra thoughts - part 3
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sador
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Mar 2 2011, 12:00pm
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Well
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Darkstone
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Mar 1 2011, 3:54pm
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You crack me up!
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Curious
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Mar 1 2011, 4:17pm
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All right, I have to get back to work,
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Mar 1 2011, 5:38pm
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Well (Part Deux)
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Darkstone
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Mar 1 2011, 7:07pm
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“Two legs bad, root system good.”
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CuriousG
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Mar 1 2011, 8:46pm
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"Ho ho ho! The sheepers do not play at their craft."
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sador
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Mar 2 2011, 2:12pm
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Comments on the chapter's summary
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sador
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Mar 1 2011, 5:47pm
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post-battle burial mounds / markers
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Felagund
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Mar 3 2011, 12:13am
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creepy places
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PhantomS
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Mar 3 2011, 6:29pm
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Snowmane was buried, not burned //
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FarFromHome
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Mar 3 2011, 8:06pm
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4. Some thoughts and answers to Questions AAAA-YYYY.
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squire
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Mar 2 2011, 8:46pm
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Regarding your extra thoughts - part 4
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sador
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Mar 3 2011, 10:34am
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How the Ents and Nazgul are alike
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squire
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Mar 6 2011, 7:35pm
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Gandalf
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Hamfast Gamgee
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Mar 3 2011, 12:30am
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5. Some thoughts and answers to Questions ZZZZ-YYYYY.
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squire
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Mar 3 2011, 6:47am
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Those paved roads...
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FarFromHome
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Mar 3 2011, 11:23am
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Regarding your extra thoughts - part 5
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sador
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Mar 6 2011, 9:43am
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cutting in
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PhantomS
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Mar 6 2011, 12:15pm
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If I may be so bold as to disagree
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sador
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Mar 6 2011, 1:50pm
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re:
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PhantomS
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Mar 7 2011, 8:59am
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6. Some thoughts and answers to Questions ZZZZZ-OOOOOO.
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squire
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Mar 4 2011, 11:55am
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You are welcome.
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Curious
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Mar 4 2011, 1:42pm
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Your three last thoughts
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sador
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Mar 6 2011, 10:36am
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On the "collision"
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FarFromHome
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Mar 8 2011, 10:11am
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Answers - part I
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sador
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Mar 6 2011, 3:55pm
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Of Orcs and Gimli...
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batik
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Mar 7 2011, 4:15am
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Answers - part II
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sador
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Mar 7 2011, 10:14am
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Rhovanion ancestors and the burning of prisoners
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Felagund
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Mar 9 2011, 9:42pm
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I have forgotten that. Thank you!
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sador
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Mar 10 2011, 7:16am
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