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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Frodo and Pippin

thesithempire
Rivendell

Mar 6 2011, 9:54pm


Views: 422
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Frodo and Pippin [In reply to] Can't Post

Arwen: To answer your question, Merry and Pippin in the book made a less-lasting impression on me than other characters, so that Dominick and Billy seemed fine. I had more issues with the way the script used them at times then I did the actors in the roles. So, I didn't even know Billy Boyd was older. They look all about the same age to me. Frodo is older, but Elijah has that "old soul" look and presence about him, so that he *feels right for the role, something that wasn't the case with the wizened Holm, who along with Hill stand out (to my eyes and instincts) as being good actors playing characters I've known for years, whereas some of the other cast members were those characters.

Again, as with Merry and Pippin, I have far bigger issues with the way the screenwriters infantilize Frodo in the films. The character in the book is far more courageous, nobler and balanced than the one that appears onscreen, and that's a shame. The latter stands up to the Nazgul at the Fords of Bruinen, and is not asleep in mommy Arwen's arms (or daddy Glorfindel as would be the case). The latter does not offer the ring to a Ringwraith in Osgiliath or any place on Middle-Earth for that matter. He isn't so easily corrupted by Gollum; doesn't send Sam home (such a dopey scene); doesn't constantly fall apart. The filmmakers' decision to basically emasculate Frodo certainly makes Sam look more heroic (except when they're emasculating him with weeping fits), but at Frodo's (and Tolkien's) expense. It also lessens the impact of Frodo's deterioration in ROTK b/c we've been seeing a weak Frodo all along. There's absolutely no reason based on his behavior onscreen that HE should've been the Ringbearer and not any other Hobbit, and especially Sam, who's far more grounded.

It's a tangent, but creating false drama (e.g., constantly pretending Frodo's been killed) and overdramatizing things (one could say melodramatizing) has the effect of making the characters and narrative less realistic, more soap-opera-ish, more cartoony, more one-dimensional: Gimli the comic-relief, Legolas the super-Elf, Sam the stalwart friend, etc. The performances and casting go a LONG way towards covering over writing that's rushed and poorly-thought-out (no offense to Fran and Philleppa, but girls, those late-night sessions definitely show).

And it all stems from this idea that Tolkien's narrative HAD to be changed to make it work onscreen. For example, the filmmakers later admitted that it took them a year to realize that Arwen didn't belong at Helm's Deep. So, they wasted a lot of time realizing what the rest of us knew all along, that Tolkien knew what he was doing, a fact they didn't respect, which led them to waste inordinate time. By the time, it hit them, and they started gradually coming to back to the book, it was too late to fix much of the damaged. Had they recognized that at the outset, the scripts would've been FAR stronger than they were, not just because they'd have been closer to the book, but because it would've made for better films.

Hopefully, that's a lesson they've learned.

Subject User Time
Interesting News on Sir Ian Holm... Maiarmike Send a private message to Maiarmike Mar 3 2011, 8:39am
    Very interesting indeed, Maiarmike... Patty Send a private message to Patty Mar 3 2011, 9:40am
    Yeah... I love Ian Holm... but Peter Jackson... Owain Send a private message to Owain Mar 3 2011, 9:40am
        While I agree... Bound Send a private message to Bound Mar 3 2011, 9:55am
            Right Maiarmike Send a private message to Maiarmike Mar 3 2011, 10:00am
                Have not gotten back or Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Mar 3 2011, 10:01am
    Perhaps... Pipe Dream Send a private message to Pipe Dream Mar 3 2011, 10:33am
    His notification has just been delayed grammaboodawg Send a private message to grammaboodawg Mar 3 2011, 11:17am
        mods up to the "Menel" Earl Send a private message to Earl Mar 3 2011, 2:32pm
        Optimism Appreciated Groppe Send a private message to Groppe Mar 3 2011, 5:29pm
            Howdy Groppe! grammaboodawg Send a private message to grammaboodawg Mar 4 2011, 1:33am
    I sure hope they can reconnect the communication link sphdle1 Send a private message to sphdle1 Mar 3 2011, 12:38pm
    he's almost 80 Welsh hero Send a private message to Welsh hero Mar 3 2011, 3:27pm
    Well rings7 Send a private message to rings7 Mar 3 2011, 4:17pm
        You may be rambling, but you make sense./ Patty Send a private message to Patty Mar 3 2011, 4:19pm
    This brings up the question of a London filming...maybe for both Eruonen Send a private message to Eruonen Mar 3 2011, 4:28pm
        This is just what I hope is in the cards./ Patty Send a private message to Patty Mar 3 2011, 6:32pm
            Sorry, but no thank you thesithempire Send a private message to thesithempire Mar 3 2011, 8:21pm
                I think you´re a bit equivocated... Ruijor Send a private message to Ruijor Mar 3 2011, 10:51pm
                    Not my implication thesithempire Send a private message to thesithempire Mar 3 2011, 11:00pm
                        Yup duats Send a private message to duats Mar 3 2011, 11:29pm
                            James Cosmo -- Holy crap, yes! thesithempire Send a private message to thesithempire Mar 3 2011, 11:50pm
                                Thanks duats Send a private message to duats Mar 4 2011, 12:03am
                                    I don't know Milknut Send a private message to Milknut Mar 4 2011, 12:22am
                                        Thoughts duats Send a private message to duats Mar 4 2011, 12:37am
                                            Duats hits it on the head thesithempire Send a private message to thesithempire Mar 4 2011, 1:38am
                                                I never noticed that Arwen Skywalker Send a private message to Arwen Skywalker Mar 6 2011, 3:12am
                                                    What you brought up about trauma affecting Theoden is interesting. taekotemple Send a private message to taekotemple Mar 6 2011, 5:50am
                                                        Frodo and Pippin thesithempire Send a private message to thesithempire Mar 6 2011, 9:54pm
                                                            Very well put - a good analysis of scriptwriting vs. performance. // squire Send a private message to squire Mar 6 2011, 10:15pm
                                                                Thanks! thesithempire Send a private message to thesithempire Mar 6 2011, 10:46pm
                                                                    Yeah, well... Maiarmike Send a private message to Maiarmike Mar 6 2011, 11:02pm
                                                                        True and true thesithempire Send a private message to thesithempire Mar 7 2011, 9:40am
                                                                    I think you also have to factor in entmaiden Send a private message to entmaiden Mar 6 2011, 11:07pm
                                                        PSTD Arwen Skywalker Send a private message to Arwen Skywalker Mar 7 2011, 8:55am
                                                            A more realistic portrayal: Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Mar 7 2011, 9:57am
    The longer they take... Ruijor Send a private message to Ruijor Mar 3 2011, 4:41pm
        Same thoughts as Ruijor Maddie Send a private message to Maddie Mar 3 2011, 5:04pm
    OMG what would be amazing if he gets the chance! sushiking Send a private message to sushiking Mar 3 2011, 6:01pm
    It would be nice... Donry Send a private message to Donry Mar 3 2011, 6:30pm
        I hope too KAOS82 Send a private message to KAOS82 Mar 4 2011, 12:25am
    OMG! What are they waititng for?!? Call him back, now! xxxyyy Send a private message to xxxyyy Mar 4 2011, 1:43am
    Old Post of mine that could indicate where Jackson & Co are headed Faramond Send a private message to Faramond Mar 4 2011, 5:47pm
    Ian holm... Namssil Send a private message to Namssil Mar 4 2011, 6:29pm
    Ian Holm willowing Send a private message to willowing Mar 5 2011, 5:03am

 
 
 

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