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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Old Post of mine that could indicate where Jackson & Co are headed

Faramond
The Shire

Mar 4 2011, 5:47pm


Views: 833
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Old Post of mine that could indicate where Jackson & Co are headed [In reply to] Can't Post
For a long time I've been struggling with the reality that Ian Holm might not be capable at his age to handle such a physically strenuous role (though I have no doubt they could appropriately de-age him by ten years to make him appear as he did in the flashback in FOTR). He is, however, the perfect Bilbo and deserves to be prominently involved in the films. Here are my thoughts:

So how could they use Holm without him actually being cast throughout the film? Simple. Holm-Bilbo is writing the first part of the Red Book of Westmarch in Rivendell as the events of LOTR are unfolding (which would be accurate according to Tolkien). After all, Bilbo WAS the ostensible author of at least part of that (fictional) manuscript. Holm's involvement could be sprinkled throughout the first movie and he might be used minimally (if at all) in the second movie. This actually would work as the older Bilbo (by Holm) could describe Bilbo in any way--close but not necessarily exactly like a younger Holm''s Bilbo would look. This would solve the "frail, increasingly ancient Holm" problem, as Holm's Bilbo without the Ring is aging rapidly in Rivendell as he writes. I think this cinematic device (The Hobbit as flashback as Bilbo writes it) would be a stunning, poignant cinematic conceit if filmed sparingly and wisely. It could all take place, in fact, between the Long Expected Party and Frodo & Co.'s Flight to the Ford.

This seems like an elegant compromise to the Holm dilemma. I can even envision a humorous bit near the beginning where Holm's Bilbo imagines himself in a wig (as in the FOTR flashback under the Misty Mountains) and scraps that image, opting for a slightly different, younger (and perhaps a bit trimmer) version of himself (conveniently played by a younger actor that somewhat resembles Holm but who doesn't need to be a dead ringer).

At any rate, the whole literary conceit (which JRRT himself used) fits in nicely with the idea of all five films coming from Bilbo's original manuscript. I love metafiction, and this narrative device would certainly be in the spirit of the professor's own creation. It's a nice tip of the hat to both Holm's brilliant performance and JRRT's brilliant "translation" of the Bilbo's/Frodo's/Sam's first hand report of the events surrounding Sauron's rise to power and the hobbits' sudden relevance late in the 3rd Age, and--of course--the War of the Ring. And there are fine opportunities to jump from past events (from and after The Hobbit) to "present" interruptions and even poignant scenes between Bilbo and old friends in Rivendell. This would have to be handled carefully, of course, but I think it could potentially be beautifully filmed by the likes of GDT, who is such a master of pacing and character interaction in his past movies.

There also would be a perfect opportunity to bookend the "you haven't aged a day" comment at the beginning of the second film: Balin comes (with Gandalf) to visit Bilbo a good many years after the events in The Hobbit. It was "long ago" when remembered by Frodo in "The Council of Elrond" in FOTR, but it would've fit nicely into the events of the coming second film and would be a good opportunity for Gandalf to note Bilbo's appearance (and for it later to make sense when Gandalf observes that Bilbo hasn't "aged a day"). This might also work nicely if after the first film the filmmakers have dispensed with Holm-Bilbo's literary conceit--what we have in that case is the "real" Bilbo unaltered or adapted by the "author" (i.e., Bilbo himself). Does that make sense?

Subject User Time
Interesting News on Sir Ian Holm... Maiarmike Send a private message to Maiarmike Mar 3 2011, 8:39am
    Very interesting indeed, Maiarmike... Patty Send a private message to Patty Mar 3 2011, 9:40am
    Yeah... I love Ian Holm... but Peter Jackson... Owain Send a private message to Owain Mar 3 2011, 9:40am
        While I agree... Bound Send a private message to Bound Mar 3 2011, 9:55am
            Right Maiarmike Send a private message to Maiarmike Mar 3 2011, 10:00am
                Have not gotten back or Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Mar 3 2011, 10:01am
    Perhaps... Pipe Dream Send a private message to Pipe Dream Mar 3 2011, 10:33am
    His notification has just been delayed grammaboodawg Send a private message to grammaboodawg Mar 3 2011, 11:17am
        mods up to the "Menel" Earl Send a private message to Earl Mar 3 2011, 2:32pm
        Optimism Appreciated Groppe Send a private message to Groppe Mar 3 2011, 5:29pm
            Howdy Groppe! grammaboodawg Send a private message to grammaboodawg Mar 4 2011, 1:33am
    I sure hope they can reconnect the communication link sphdle1 Send a private message to sphdle1 Mar 3 2011, 12:38pm
    he's almost 80 Welsh hero Send a private message to Welsh hero Mar 3 2011, 3:27pm
    Well rings7 Send a private message to rings7 Mar 3 2011, 4:17pm
        You may be rambling, but you make sense./ Patty Send a private message to Patty Mar 3 2011, 4:19pm
    This brings up the question of a London filming...maybe for both Eruonen Send a private message to Eruonen Mar 3 2011, 4:28pm
        This is just what I hope is in the cards./ Patty Send a private message to Patty Mar 3 2011, 6:32pm
            Sorry, but no thank you thesithempire Send a private message to thesithempire Mar 3 2011, 8:21pm
                I think you´re a bit equivocated... Ruijor Send a private message to Ruijor Mar 3 2011, 10:51pm
                    Not my implication thesithempire Send a private message to thesithempire Mar 3 2011, 11:00pm
                        Yup duats Send a private message to duats Mar 3 2011, 11:29pm
                            James Cosmo -- Holy crap, yes! thesithempire Send a private message to thesithempire Mar 3 2011, 11:50pm
                                Thanks duats Send a private message to duats Mar 4 2011, 12:03am
                                    I don't know Milknut Send a private message to Milknut Mar 4 2011, 12:22am
                                        Thoughts duats Send a private message to duats Mar 4 2011, 12:37am
                                            Duats hits it on the head thesithempire Send a private message to thesithempire Mar 4 2011, 1:38am
                                                I never noticed that Arwen Skywalker Send a private message to Arwen Skywalker Mar 6 2011, 3:12am
                                                    What you brought up about trauma affecting Theoden is interesting. taekotemple Send a private message to taekotemple Mar 6 2011, 5:50am
                                                        Frodo and Pippin thesithempire Send a private message to thesithempire Mar 6 2011, 9:54pm
                                                            Very well put - a good analysis of scriptwriting vs. performance. // squire Send a private message to squire Mar 6 2011, 10:15pm
                                                                Thanks! thesithempire Send a private message to thesithempire Mar 6 2011, 10:46pm
                                                                    Yeah, well... Maiarmike Send a private message to Maiarmike Mar 6 2011, 11:02pm
                                                                        True and true thesithempire Send a private message to thesithempire Mar 7 2011, 9:40am
                                                                    I think you also have to factor in entmaiden Send a private message to entmaiden Mar 6 2011, 11:07pm
                                                        PSTD Arwen Skywalker Send a private message to Arwen Skywalker Mar 7 2011, 8:55am
                                                            A more realistic portrayal: Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Mar 7 2011, 9:57am
    The longer they take... Ruijor Send a private message to Ruijor Mar 3 2011, 4:41pm
        Same thoughts as Ruijor Maddie Send a private message to Maddie Mar 3 2011, 5:04pm
    OMG what would be amazing if he gets the chance! sushiking Send a private message to sushiking Mar 3 2011, 6:01pm
    It would be nice... Donry Send a private message to Donry Mar 3 2011, 6:30pm
        I hope too KAOS82 Send a private message to KAOS82 Mar 4 2011, 12:25am
    OMG! What are they waititng for?!? Call him back, now! xxxyyy Send a private message to xxxyyy Mar 4 2011, 1:43am
    Old Post of mine that could indicate where Jackson & Co are headed Faramond Send a private message to Faramond Mar 4 2011, 5:47pm
    Ian holm... Namssil Send a private message to Namssil Mar 4 2011, 6:29pm
    Ian Holm willowing Send a private message to willowing Mar 5 2011, 5:03am

 
 
 

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