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Curious
Half-elven
Aug 25 2010, 3:37pm
Views: 2162
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The narrator does exactly what you suggest
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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when Merry stabs the Witchking, explaining why Merry's blade was so effective. And still Meriadoc the hobbit stood there blinking through his tears and no one spoke to him, indeed none seemed to heed him. He brushed away the tears, and stooped to pick up the green shield that Éowyn had given him; and he slung it at his back. Then he looked for his sword that he had let fall; for even as he struck his blow his arm was numbed, and now he could only use his left hand. And behold! there lay his weapon, but the blade was smoking like a dry branch that has been thrust in a fire; and as he watched it, it writhed and withered and was consumed. So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will. Similarly, the narrator gives us Shelob's point of view when Sam fights her: For Sam still stood upon his feet, and dropping his own sword, with both hands he held the elven-blade point upwards, fending off that ghastly roof; and so Shelob, with the driving force of her own cruel will, with strength greater than any warrior's hand, thrust herself upon a bitter spike. Deep, deep it pricked, as Sam was crushed slowly to the ground. No such anguish had Shelob ever known, or dreamed of knowing, in all her long world of wickedness. Not the doughtiest soldier of old Gondor, nor the most savage Orc entrapped, had ever thus endured her, or set blade to her beloved flesh. A shudder went through her. Heaving up again, wrenching away from the pain, she bent her writhing limbs beneath her and sprang backwards in a convulsive leap. ... Even as Sam himself crouched, looking at her, seeing his death in her eyes, a thought came to him, as if some remote voice had spoken. and he fumbled in his breast with his left hand, and found what he sought: cold and hard and solid it seemed to his touch in a phantom world of horror, the Phial of Galadriel. ... As if his indomitable spirit had set its potency in motion, the glass blazed suddenly like a white torch in his hand. It flamed like a star that leaping from the firmament sears the dark air with intolerable light. No such terror out of heaven had ever burned in Shelob's face before. The beams of it entered into her wounded head and scored it with unbearable pain, and the dreadful infection of light spread from eye to eye. She fell back beating the air with her forelegs, her sight blasted by inner lightnings, her mind in agony. Then turning her maimed head away, she rolled aside and began to crawl, claw by claw, towards the opening in the dark cliff behind. Even earlier in Book I, when Frodo was alone with the Barrow Wight, the narrator was capable of explaining things to the reader that Frodo did not know: But though his fear was so great that it seemed to be part of the very darkness that was round him, he found himself as he lay thinking about Bilbo Baggins and his stories, of their jogging along together in the lanes of the Shire and talking about roads and adventures. There is a seed of courage hidden (often deeply, it is true) in the heart of the fattest and most timid hobbit, wailing for some final and desperate danger to make it grow. Frodo was neither very fat nor very timid; indeed, though he did not know it, Bilbo (and Gandalf) had thought him the best hobbit in the Shire. He thought he had come to the end of his adventure, and a terrible end, but the thought hardened him. He found himself stiffening, as if for a final spring; he no longer felt limp like a helpless prey. So the narrator is perfectly capable of offering explanations unknown to the characters at that time. (You can still, if you like, assume that the hobbits added the commentary later, or that the modern translator added it for the benefit of modern readers.) But Tolkien chose not to do so at Weathertop. And that, I judge, is a failing, for although we can construct reasons for the Riders' behavior, the only reason offered in the narrative, by Strider, is at best incomplete, and at worst just wrong.
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User
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Book I, Chapter 11, “A Knife in the Dark”: Are Black Riders Wimps?
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Curious
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Aug 23 2010, 2:02am
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My own thoughts
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Lord of Magic
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Aug 23 2010, 2:20pm
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Good point about Bombadil talking to ponies!
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Curious
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Aug 23 2010, 4:03pm
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Let me know if you find
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Curious
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Aug 23 2010, 4:17pm
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Horn calls, commerce, and Wimpy Black Riders
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Jerene
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Aug 23 2010, 2:51pm
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Thanks for acknowledging
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Curious
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Aug 23 2010, 4:14pm
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Unanswerable Questions
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Jerene
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Aug 23 2010, 9:26pm
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Not 3.6, but 6 pennies
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sador
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Aug 25 2010, 2:28pm
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Great summary and analysis, Curious
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FarFromHome
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Aug 23 2010, 5:27pm
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Okay, here's a closer analysis of the timing in Buckland.
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Curious
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Aug 23 2010, 6:13pm
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Nazgul as cowards
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Arwen Skywalker
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Aug 23 2010, 7:27pm
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There is an element of ghosts afraid of the light.
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Curious
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Aug 23 2010, 8:32pm
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Gandalf and the High Elves
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FarFromHome
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Aug 23 2010, 10:40pm
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Taking the ring from Frodo
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CuriousG
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Aug 24 2010, 11:56am
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It wouldn't take long
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Curious
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Aug 24 2010, 12:07pm
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Nazgul and fear of fire
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CuriousG
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Aug 24 2010, 12:17pm
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I can explain Minas Tirith.
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Curious
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Aug 24 2010, 12:43pm
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I'm guessing element of surprise
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xy
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Aug 24 2010, 3:31pm
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Good point about the Riders being tired,
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Curious
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Aug 24 2010, 4:33pm
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On the other hand; and, Bombadil and the Siege of Imladris
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CuriousG
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Aug 24 2010, 5:06pm
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Old Man Willow and the Barrow-wights
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Curious
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Aug 24 2010, 5:27pm
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Bombadil and the war...
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Evernight
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Aug 24 2010, 6:25pm
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Could be. Interesting.
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Curious
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Aug 24 2010, 7:00pm
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Excellent point
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CuriousG
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Aug 24 2010, 7:28pm
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Another point
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xy
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Aug 24 2010, 6:39pm
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It's also tricky
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Curious
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Aug 24 2010, 7:06pm
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It's frustrating
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Curious
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Aug 24 2010, 7:23pm
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At the very least
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CuriousG
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Aug 24 2010, 7:34pm
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And maybe Tolkien
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Curious
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Aug 24 2010, 7:55pm
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I think there are hints
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FarFromHome
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Aug 25 2010, 10:35am
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The definitive essay!
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CuriousG
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Aug 25 2010, 2:13pm
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That's not what bothers me
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sador
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Aug 25 2010, 2:26pm
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Wasn't there a prophecy?
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FarFromHome
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Aug 26 2010, 11:37am
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Who issued this prophesy?
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Elizabeth
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Aug 27 2010, 7:18am
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Good question.
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FarFromHome
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Aug 27 2010, 8:21am
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The Riders seemed to open Fatty's gate
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Curious
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Aug 25 2010, 4:32pm
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Thanks, CuriousG!
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FarFromHome
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Aug 26 2010, 11:58am
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A wooden shield
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Curious
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Aug 26 2010, 2:58pm
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The narrator does exactly what you suggest
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Curious
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Aug 25 2010, 3:37pm
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well
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xy
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Aug 26 2010, 5:41pm
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Timelines
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FarFromHome
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Aug 23 2010, 10:18pm
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I agree about the horn
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Curious
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Aug 23 2010, 11:26pm
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Maybe you're right
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FarFromHome
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Aug 24 2010, 9:04am
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Oh, how to explain those Nazgul
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CuriousG
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Aug 23 2010, 7:54pm
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It's also revealing
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Curious
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Aug 23 2010, 10:14pm
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Who were the culprits in the attack in the inn?
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CuriousG
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Aug 23 2010, 7:30pm
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Here's what Strider said:
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Curious
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Aug 23 2010, 8:25pm
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Nazgul or Ferny
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CuriousG
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Aug 24 2010, 12:05pm
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There's also the question
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Curious
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Aug 24 2010, 12:38pm
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Good point
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CuriousG
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Aug 24 2010, 12:48pm
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However, that very night
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sador
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Aug 25 2010, 2:51pm
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Good point.
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Curious
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Aug 25 2010, 4:49pm
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Not Bakshi.
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sador
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Aug 25 2010, 2:47pm
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Your second link doesn't work.
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Curious
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Aug 25 2010, 4:47pm
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Does this one?
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sador
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Aug 27 2010, 11:52am
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If your point is that we can't be sure,
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Curious
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Aug 27 2010, 12:34pm
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Bolsters and other thoughts
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Elizabeth
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Aug 27 2010, 10:08pm
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Comments on the Summary
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sador
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Aug 24 2010, 9:41am
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Frodo: the exceptional hobbit and hero
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CuriousG
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Aug 24 2010, 12:40pm
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Frodo is an exceptional hobbit.
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Curious
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Aug 24 2010, 1:11pm
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Comments on your Analysis
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sador
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Aug 25 2010, 10:53am
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A thought about "Peregrin."
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Curious
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Aug 25 2010, 4:21pm
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Comments on your Analysis - part II
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sador
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Aug 25 2010, 2:15pm
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There are hints
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Curious
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Aug 25 2010, 4:43pm
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Did the Riders know that Frodo would take off the Ring?
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sador
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Aug 25 2010, 7:15pm
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Not nonexistent.
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Curious
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Aug 25 2010, 8:10pm
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"...with timbers burst and lock broken"
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squire
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Aug 25 2010, 6:00pm
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Great point about the Nazgul as police.
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Curious
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Aug 25 2010, 8:01pm
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Inside information
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FarFromHome
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Aug 25 2010, 9:57pm
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There's no fist...
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FarFromHome
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Aug 25 2010, 9:35pm
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Right, no fist mentioned, but how far can you take that?
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squire
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Aug 25 2010, 9:43pm
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Well, I did wonder about the horse...
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FarFromHome
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Aug 25 2010, 10:00pm
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Response the money question
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Hyarmendacil
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Aug 27 2010, 12:54am
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So you think there was money
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Curious
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Aug 27 2010, 2:26am
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Money
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Hyarmendacil
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Aug 27 2010, 3:03am
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It's still a choice
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Curious
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Aug 27 2010, 12:39pm
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"Fact"?
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squire
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Aug 27 2010, 2:49pm
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I'm sorry, the Shire and Bree are not feudal.
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Curious
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Aug 27 2010, 3:17pm
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Stick to your guns!
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squire
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Aug 27 2010, 10:24pm
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Dirty pool!
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Curious
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Aug 27 2010, 11:07pm
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Agreeing with Curious...
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Desicon9
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Aug 27 2010, 11:55pm
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Disagreeing with Curious ...
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Curious
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Aug 28 2010, 12:17am
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If nuttin' can be known, what are we talking fer? LOL!
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Desicon9
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Aug 28 2010, 2:08am
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Arguably,
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Curious
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Aug 28 2010, 3:10am
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The Muster of Rohan
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Elizabeth
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Aug 28 2010, 3:33am
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They didn't spend three days on it
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Curious
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Aug 28 2010, 4:04am
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The Shire and Breeland were not Feudal
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Hyarmendacil
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Aug 29 2010, 9:22pm
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More on Middle Earth economics
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Hyarmendacil
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Aug 29 2010, 8:52pm
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"Don't go there."
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Elizabeth
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Aug 29 2010, 10:24pm
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How One Thing Leads to Another...
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Desicon9
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Aug 30 2010, 1:54pm
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Dangerous indeed
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sador
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Aug 30 2010, 3:01pm
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Curious gender...
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Desicon9
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Aug 30 2010, 5:35pm
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No problem.
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Curious
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Aug 30 2010, 11:47pm
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If I may suggest a roadmap
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squire
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Aug 30 2010, 3:35pm
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Precising definitions; and valid "speculations."
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Desicon9
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Aug 30 2010, 7:28pm
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Hmmmm
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Tim
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Aug 30 2010, 8:28pm
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I wonder if Mordor and its slave colonies
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Curious
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Aug 30 2010, 11:45pm
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The Aztecs were a stretch
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squire
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Aug 31 2010, 12:45am
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I feel quite sure
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Curious
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Aug 31 2010, 1:27am
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Points of view
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FarFromHome
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Sep 2 2010, 9:22am
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Now there's a bit of fan fiction for you.
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Curious
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Sep 2 2010, 12:19pm
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Only Sam
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FarFromHome
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Sep 2 2010, 1:28pm
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Wait...
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squire
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Sep 2 2010, 2:08pm
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It can be depended on
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FarFromHome
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Sep 2 2010, 2:43pm
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I think maybe Squire is concerned with fan fic history revisionism
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Tim
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Sep 2 2010, 2:58pm
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Texts giving Mordor's side of the question
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squire
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Sep 2 2010, 2:03pm
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And Sauron speaking to Pippin in the Palantir
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CuriousG
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Sep 2 2010, 4:23pm
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Yes, for what it's worth.
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squire
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Sep 2 2010, 5:05pm
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Sauron's diction vs. his boss's; who is more menacing?
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CuriousG
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Sep 3 2010, 12:15am
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Sauron speaks like a hobbit!
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Curious
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Sep 3 2010, 12:26am
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It's a function of who's translating.
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Elizabeth
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Sep 3 2010, 12:52am
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Sauron is the only bad guy who speaks Hobbit
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CuriousG
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Sep 4 2010, 9:34pm
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The difference may be...
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Elizabeth
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Sep 4 2010, 9:40pm
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Yes well
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FarFromHome
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Sep 2 2010, 5:43pm
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I think you've hit on it
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Tim
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Sep 2 2010, 5:59pm
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The Ring Spell is Sauron's composition
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squire
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Sep 2 2010, 6:39pm
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I know! ;-)
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FarFromHome
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Sep 2 2010, 8:49pm
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It's possible, I guess
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squire
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Sep 2 2010, 11:35pm
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Ha! And you say you don't like fan fiction!
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Curious
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Sep 2 2010, 11:52pm
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I am
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Tim
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Sep 3 2010, 12:44am
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That's it!
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FarFromHome
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Sep 3 2010, 9:05am
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Celebrimbor heard those lines, didn't he?
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CuriousG
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Sep 2 2010, 7:24pm
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In 'Mount Doom'
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sador
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Sep 2 2010, 7:43pm
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Did Tolkien ever think LOTR economics could be recovered?
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Desicon9
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Aug 31 2010, 1:38am
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Tolkien talks quite a bit about economics in The Hobbit.
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Curious
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Aug 31 2010, 4:19am
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Weak feudalism; more on money; Shire princes
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CuriousG
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Aug 31 2010, 1:34pm
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That's a great insight!
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Curious
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Aug 30 2010, 9:58pm
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Cultures in The Hobbit
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Elizabeth
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Aug 27 2010, 11:24pm
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It's not a matter of inconsistency.
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Curious
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Aug 27 2010, 11:56pm
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