|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FarFromHome
Valinor
Jul 12 2010, 9:40pm
Views: 1179
Shortcut
|
in the way the scenes are framed, and the subtle differences in the language, to interpret Aragorn's behaviour in one way and Faramir's in another. Aragorn is already aware of the Ring before he even meets the hobbits, and he's already been trying to impress on them the dangers they face. Now he's exasperated as Sam raises more objections about whether he's the "real" Strider, and decides to show them how an impostor might behave. He puts his hand to his sword not because he's tempted to kill the hobbits and steal the Ring - he knows perfectly well that his sword is "not much use", just the shards of Narsil that, more than anything, must remind him of how his ancestor failed and where his own duty lies. Faramir, on the other hand, has only just realised what "the answer to all the riddles" is. His response is immediate and spontaneous, and there's no reason whatsoever for him to think this is an appropriate moment to jest with the hobbits, or mislead them in any way. If he finds himself blurting out his thoughts about having the hobbits in his power, then I see no reason to believe those thoughts aren't sincere. The subtleties of language that I mentioned previously also point this way, I feel. Compare Aragorn's conditional tenses: "If I had killed the real Strider, I could kill you. And I should have killed you already without so much talk. If I was after the Ring, I could have it – NOW!", with Faramir's softly-spoken, simple present tense: "And here in the wild I have you." Faramir is contemplating a real possibility, while Aragorn with his conditionals is doing exactly the opposite - pointing out how impossible Sam's suspicions are. Yes, it's subtle, but I don't see that as a weakness - rather the opposite. We are in the same position as the hobbits through whose eyes we see both scenes - we have to judge for ourselves what's really going through the minds of the men whose thoughts we are not privy to. I agree that my argument would be weak if I was claiming that either man was "definitely" tempted or not tempted. But "definitely" is your word, and one I wouldn't use because I don't believe there are any definitive answers to these questions. The interest is in the interpretation.
They went in, and Sam shut the door. But even as he did so, he heard suddenly, deep and unstilled, the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth. From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings
|
|
|
Subject
|
User
|
Time
|
why was Faramir not tempted by the Ring?
|
TheNazgul
|
Jul 12 2010, 5:11am
|
Faramir was more aware of the dangers of absolute power
|
elostirion74
|
Jul 12 2010, 6:52am
|
What makes you so sure
|
FarFromHome
|
Jul 12 2010, 9:07am
|
I disagree.
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 12:14pm
|
Disagreeing with disagreement :)
|
CuriousG
|
Jul 12 2010, 12:37pm
|
I would say
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 3:28pm
|
The Nine Kings were not necessarily "corrupt" in the beginning
|
squire
|
Jul 12 2010, 4:56pm
|
As ringbearers,
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 5:11pm
|
Elrond's weakness is revealed
|
FarFromHome
|
Jul 20 2010, 1:03pm
|
Excellent point
|
CuriousG
|
Jul 20 2010, 1:23pm
|
Completing the set
|
squire
|
Jul 20 2010, 4:19pm
|
The Ring starts with the good natures, then leads to evil
|
CuriousG
|
Jul 13 2010, 1:44pm
|
Sam was wearing the Ring
|
Curious
|
Jul 13 2010, 3:10pm
|
"So no, the Ring didn't corrupt Boromir."
|
squire
|
Jul 13 2010, 3:24pm
|
I was simply repeating
|
Curious
|
Jul 13 2010, 3:32pm
|
I do agree with this distinction
|
CuriousG
|
Jul 13 2010, 3:55pm
|
It's possible
|
Curious
|
Jul 13 2010, 4:16pm
|
Saruman and Denethor were never close to the Ring
|
Kangi Ska
|
Jul 13 2010, 5:52pm
|
That's a good point.
|
Curious
|
Jul 13 2010, 7:16pm
|
background
|
Arwen Skywalker
|
Jul 13 2010, 8:00pm
|
It is precisely because
|
Curious
|
Jul 13 2010, 8:15pm
|
So simple
|
squire
|
Jul 13 2010, 6:38pm
|
I'm dubious too!
|
Curious
|
Jul 13 2010, 7:31pm
|
Yes, desire for the Ring
|
Curious
|
Jul 14 2010, 11:21am
|
Sam was not wearing the Ring
|
dernwyn
|
Jul 15 2010, 2:30am
|
Okay, but Sam was
|
Curious
|
Jul 15 2010, 3:25am
|
Bearing vs. wearing
|
dernwyn
|
Jul 15 2010, 11:34am
|
Wearing is different anyway
|
FarFromHome
|
Jul 15 2010, 12:33pm
|
Do you mean,
|
dernwyn
|
Jul 15 2010, 4:13pm
|
mmmmm
|
Curious
|
Jul 15 2010, 5:56pm
|
Good point.//
|
Curious
|
Jul 15 2010, 1:50pm
|
Clear as...
|
FarFromHome
|
Jul 15 2010, 9:23am
|
I love your Ring/donut comparison!
|
dernwyn
|
Jul 15 2010, 10:36am
|
Faramir's reaction
|
elostirion74
|
Jul 12 2010, 4:40pm
|
Why wasn't anyone other than Boromir and Gollum tempted by the Ring?
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 12:30pm
|
Aragorn, Faramir, Gandalf, Galadriel and Sam are all tempted by the Ring
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
|
Jul 12 2010, 1:30pm
|
One's reaction to the Temptation of the Ring
|
Kangi Ska
|
Jul 12 2010, 1:49pm
|
To take that analogy further,
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 8:09pm
|
So much better
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 3:13pm
|
What is temptation?
|
FarFromHome
|
Jul 12 2010, 4:06pm
|
What is magical temptation?
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 4:33pm
|
magical temptation
|
elostirion74
|
Jul 12 2010, 5:04pm
|
Hmm.
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 6:21pm
|
The function of the Palantirs
|
elostirion74
|
Jul 13 2010, 6:48am
|
It's possible
|
Curious
|
Jul 13 2010, 11:45am
|
The One Ring's functions are more complex.
|
Kangi Ska
|
Jul 12 2010, 5:07pm
|
So you agree that Faramir was not tempted?
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 6:24pm
|
I would say that he had the resolve to resist whatever the temptation was.
|
Kangi Ska
|
Jul 12 2010, 7:20pm
|
What you describe
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 8:04pm
|
Elrond says otherwise
|
squire
|
Jul 12 2010, 8:32pm
|
I see no contradiction.
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 9:04pm
|
No point in tempting other hobbits
|
CuriousG
|
Jul 13 2010, 1:26pm
|
I guess you mean
|
FarFromHome
|
Jul 12 2010, 2:02pm
|
I don't understand why you think that Aragorn was not tempted by the Ring
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
|
Jul 12 2010, 2:09pm
|
You mean at the Prancing Pony?
|
FarFromHome
|
Jul 12 2010, 3:36pm
|
I don't see a basis
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 8:13pm
|
Well, I do see a basis
|
FarFromHome
|
Jul 12 2010, 9:40pm
|
I didn't say
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 10:32pm
|
I agree with
|
FarFromHome
|
Jul 13 2010, 8:35am
|
"I agree, but ..."
|
Curious
|
Jul 13 2010, 11:57am
|
Got to quibble.
|
FarFromHome
|
Jul 14 2010, 1:27pm
|
"I do not think that Frodo's was a moral failure."
|
Curious
|
Jul 14 2010, 2:06pm
|
Thanks for the quote
|
FarFromHome
|
Jul 14 2010, 5:31pm
|
I think I give up.
|
Curious
|
Jul 14 2010, 6:37pm
|
Magic vs. mechanical devices
|
CuriousG
|
Jul 14 2010, 6:20pm
|
The Rise of the PCs:
|
Kangi Ska
|
Jul 14 2010, 6:31pm
|
No, I meant what I said, but
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 3:42pm
|
The Ring Tempts: Individuals react: It is a test
|
Kangi Ska
|
Jul 12 2010, 3:52pm
|
It's remarkably ineffective, then.
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 4:03pm
|
A remarkable set of test subjects:
|
Kangi Ska
|
Jul 12 2010, 4:50pm
|
Are the hobbits that exceptional?
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 4:59pm
|
Hobbits are exceptional: at least Gandalf says that they are remarkable
|
Kangi Ska
|
Jul 12 2010, 7:23pm
|
Then it is the non-hobbits who are not exceptional?
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 7:53pm
|
Those in the story that are in the position to be tempted by the One Ring
|
Kangi Ska
|
Jul 12 2010, 9:25pm
|
The hobbits do not violate the principle of only high powers being tempted by the Ring
|
squire
|
Jul 12 2010, 10:21pm
|
There is also the temptation
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 10:46pm
|
It is precisely because they are exceptional that they are
|
Curious
|
Jul 12 2010, 10:40pm
|
Isildur?
|
Hamfast Gamgee
|
Jul 13 2010, 8:46am
|
Isildur is a ringbearer.
|
Curious
|
Jul 13 2010, 12:00pm
|
Denethor and temptation
|
PhantomS
|
Jul 12 2010, 2:25pm
|
The All Purpose Ring of Wonder: It does everything its creator wanted it to do.
|
Kangi Ska
|
Jul 13 2010, 7:50am
|
"Temptation" defined
|
CuriousG
|
Jul 13 2010, 1:54pm
|
Tolkien said
|
Curious
|
Jul 13 2010, 3:25pm
|
He was
|
xy
|
Jul 13 2010, 5:53pm
|
Gimli, Legolas or Merry and Pippin weren't apparently tempted
|
Kangi Ska
|
Jul 13 2010, 6:19pm
|
well
|
xy
|
Jul 13 2010, 6:32pm
|
Isn't there a difference
|
Curious
|
Jul 14 2010, 11:16am
|
Free will and determinism are both equally true. It is the great paradox.
|
Kangi Ska
|
Jul 14 2010, 11:57am
|
Maybe.
|
Curious
|
Jul 14 2010, 12:05pm
|
So I concede that the ring is very powerful
|
Kangi Ska
|
Jul 14 2010, 12:26pm
|
Possibly.
|
Curious
|
Jul 14 2010, 1:53pm
|
How does that work?
|
squire
|
Jul 14 2010, 3:11pm
|
You think Galadriels' tranformation
|
Curious
|
Jul 14 2010, 4:34pm
|
I'm willing to contemplate that we are getting nowhere
|
squire
|
Jul 14 2010, 5:16pm
|
Why do you think Legolas and Gimli
|
Curious
|
Jul 14 2010, 6:25pm
|
wait...
|
xy
|
Jul 15 2010, 3:09pm
|
Apparently everyone agrees with you.
|
Curious
|
Jul 15 2010, 4:02pm
|
innocence
|
PhantomS
|
Jul 14 2010, 5:33pm
|
|
|
|