Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
WARNING: Long and Rambling post ahead.

Sunflower
Valinor

Jun 19 2010, 4:15am


Views: 1141
Shortcut
WARNING: Long and Rambling post ahead. [In reply to] Can't Post

Tongue
Had to go away for a while, but now that I;m back I want to address first your comment MrCere.

How do you know for certain that WB was not pressuring TH to be filmed in 3D? I'm sorry, but being "quite confident" is not the same as "knowing for sure." TH has no official budget at all, the final budget for the film cannot be determined until after there is an official greenlight. I know, with the scripts (supposedly) in, there must be some idea already, but until after the greenlight is given, there would be an even better idea. And we will not know until then how much money WB is putting up, how much WB is ponying up, and how much if any PJ can or will be asked to contribute (quite a possibilty in this abysmal penny-pinching climate.)
My memory of exact posts is dim, but if Del Toro had anything defenite to say on the subject, I'll bet he posted it no later than early March. If I am wrong and Del Toro posted a statement *after March 1st* that said that TH was DEFENITELY NOT going to be filmed in 3D, then I stand corrected.

However, the number of concrete news stories, and the number of Del Toro's posts, both fell drastically beginning right around March. That is when the Big Silence began, on all fronts, (except for a few vague statements that "in a few days" we'd see some moving forward on the MGM front which turned out to be a big fat lie) and when, I am sure, the processes that led to Del Toro's departure, whatever they were, began accelerating in earnest. March, in retrospect, seems to have been the turning point.

The reason why I gave the March date is this: I believe that the success of Avatar had a very big impact on the way WB viewed their expectations for TH, possibly chnaging their POV in a very short amount of time, and we need to look at this fact. Jeff Bewkes's mind may have changed on the subject in a VERY short amount of time--like, say, the week the global box office for Avatar broke the 2.5 billion mark. And that was for ONE film. Now, if TH films were released in 2D, there would be no way the studio could charge the inflated 3D ticket prices that 3D films get, which would drastically impact the box office. True, there would probably be a last-minute post-production 2D to 3D transfer for IMAX (I'm sure they felt like they'd look like idiots if they didn't at least try this) but other wise they'd have to suffer lower box office. Yes, there are only 200+ IMAX theaters in the world and outside the US, where the films would be mostly shown in 2D anyway, this would not be an issue. But the U.S. IMAX theaters, with their fantastic repeat business for Avatar, contributed a lot to the US take and made the difference whern it came to studio bragging rights.

And bragging rights matter very much these days, since they dramatically affect a studio's stock price and market share, and if the above press release didn't make ot all the more dramatically clear, the only thing the studio appears to care about is making as much money as possible and FAST. Before March, TH was the hottest franchise in town. Now, with an Avatar sequel coming, as big as it is, monetarily speaking, it isn't the BIGGEST anymore, not by a long shot. The past year, and think 2 yrs, (not counting this yr with Avatar';s success, this will count for this year), WB is the biggest earning studio in Hollywood. This yr and next, they'll likely keep that title, with the last 2 Harry Potter films coming out. But other than TH. there is no huge epic mega-budget blockbuster franchise on the table and they are in a state of panic. I'm sure they'd like to have something to come out in 2012 or later that makes as much or more than Avatar, so thst they'll still be #1. And how better to do that than have TH in 3d?

Besides, how will a 2D Hobbit look on all those new 3D TV's that people are already beginning to buy to play their Avatar Blu-Rays on? (We've already gotten a taste of the careful, loving attention that WB is putting forth to marketing TH as something different than HP or Avatar. *cough*.)

And forgive me if I maintain the notion that there weren;t powerful forces within WB after March that were arguing that a 2d Hobbit would be a futile "swimming against the Hollywood tsunami" of 3D. And therefore counter-productive.
And that's just WB. How did the hedge fund mmanagers who took over control of MGM in late March feel abouit this issue? You can bet that the Avatar box office and 3D ticket prices were the ONLY things their mon-movie busines eyes saw and understood....

That out of the way, let me say that from my knowledge of Del Toro (nowhere near Hellmistress's of course), but just as a fan of almost 5 yrs who has readt just about everything written in English about him, let me say that he is a passionate artist who fights for what he believes in and the biggest fights he has had with studios and other corporate entities in his projects tend to be scriptoral issues. The 2 prime examples of this are his debut film, Mimic, and Pan's Labyrinth. (Notice that he has said that whoever is chosen to direct, he will be :continuing to work on the scripts." I thought they had been turned in and supposedly approved of by January? Was there some outstanding major issues with the 2nd script? He clearly is intending to see that his vision is still honored. Not having worked on a Tolkien adaptation, which tneds to further evolve organically during filming, how could he be referring to that? There must be some other difficulty.)
For details on the agonizing experience he had in making "Mimic", his debut film, see Peter Biskind's book "Down And Dirty Pictures." . (Pg 250-255.) (I just re-read that and it made me sick all over again.) He wanted Mimic to be the masterful blend of action, mystery, lyricims and ideas that his 2nd film, "Cronos", was. Watch Mimic and then Cronis and compare the two. You'll get an idea of what Hollywood wanted to shove down his throat and his own vision. DT feels s strongly about this that last year he was STILL fighting Harvey Weinstein to get the origional version of Mimic released on DVD instead of the piece of crap that is the current version.
As to the PL fight, that was with the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences in 2006. I forget if it was during first screenings or the beginning of Oscar season, DT got world very early on that AMPAS was blown away and that it was a shoo-in for BFF nom. But they had a HUGE issue with "the little girl dying" and asked why the ending could not be changed. At one point, during a meeting with AMPAS officials, according to an interview he gave, one prominent member of AMPAS told himpoint-blank, "You know that you're going to lose the Oscar", implying flat out that if Ofelia died, he wouldn't win. Of course,. DT did not care what anyone thought, Ofelia's death and redemption--her Christ-like refusal to shed innocent blood--was the whole point of the film, and he did not back down.

So I am surmusing that in addition to the 2nd script possibly having been sent back to DT for revision by a studio that, after March, suddenly maybe wanting as "kid-friendly" a film as possible, there were other business issues on the table. I very HIGHLY doubt that PJ and G were atcreative odds over anything, and whatever DT wanted, PJ tried to present to the studio. DT's fight was with the studios, not PJ.

So let me throw out an example. If it were a script issue (one of the "many and varied" reasons DT said he had for leaving) what would be the Mimic and Ofelia-like issue he had with the script? There could be several.

What does DT feel the most passionately about, and what does he talk about a lot? What would he battle WB about for sure? Monsters. Let me throw out one throry: one little factor thst he'd be fighting the studio about. This would be one of many issues he'd have over the script. but it could be a promient one.

Let me throw out the possibilty of: Smaug. It's one of the few things he was talking enthusiastically about early on so you know how close it was to his heart. (God, just saying "was"--rips MY heart out...). What if Smaug was indeed introduced up close and personal only in the 2nd film, and WB was very unhappy about the way DT wanted us to see him? Before Avatar, they probably didn't care how dark the films were. But waht if the films got very dark (or at least semi-"adult") in the 2nd film (follwing the "whimsical to darK' character development trajectory") and DT's plans for Smaug were deemed too "non-mainstream"

Subject User Time
Is Neill Blomkamp the next 'Hobbit' director? Maybe News from Bree Send a private message to News from Bree Jun 18 2010, 3:32pm
    This would be a very good choice. Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 18 2010, 10:09pm
        I agree 100% Compa_Mighty Send a private message to Compa_Mighty Jun 19 2010, 4:34am
            If it is to be: Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 19 2010, 11:35am
                My sentiments exactly, Kangi... Patty Send a private message to Patty Jun 19 2010, 3:33pm
        Genre director Gandalf'sMother Jun 20 2010, 1:46am
            Everyone: For your enjoyment... Sunflower Send a private message to Sunflower Jun 20 2010, 5:51am
    Wow... Its exactly what I imagine when I read GDT`s breaking news! Oscarilbo Send a private message to Oscarilbo Jun 18 2010, 10:11pm
        Once again, mmmmmm-MONEY will triumph. Sunflower Send a private message to Sunflower Jun 18 2010, 11:31pm
            Woah woah woah MrCere Send a private message to MrCere Jun 19 2010, 12:51am
                WARNING: Long and Rambling post ahead. Sunflower Send a private message to Sunflower Jun 19 2010, 4:15am
                    Yes! jedihillis Send a private message to jedihillis Jun 19 2010, 9:09am
                        First i want to thank Vangalad Send a private message to Vangalad Jun 19 2010, 11:25am
                    It is obvious that you have put thought into what you are posting... Owain Send a private message to Owain Jun 19 2010, 4:32pm
                        See Voronwe's post Sunflower Send a private message to Sunflower Jun 20 2010, 5:33am
                    some thoughts... Gildor Send a private message to Gildor Jun 20 2010, 8:04am
                        Why so serious? Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 20 2010, 8:18am
            I don't want the hobbit to be made anymore Alassė Send a private message to Alassė Jun 19 2010, 1:08am
                So much drama R11 Send a private message to R11 Jun 19 2010, 1:23am
                Boy I want the Hobbit made and quick Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 19 2010, 1:41am
                Shark Jumping Voorhas Send a private message to Voorhas Jun 19 2010, 8:40am
                    Shadows and Dreamscapes Sunflower Send a private message to Sunflower Jun 19 2010, 10:38am
                You know, same thing was said after PJ said he wouldn't direct Ainu Laire Send a private message to Ainu Laire Jun 19 2010, 3:15pm
                    Yes, I could get behind Blomkamp Oiotįri Send a private message to Oiotįri Jun 19 2010, 4:58pm
            Mmmmmmmoney is what get's a film made. Owain Send a private message to Owain Jun 19 2010, 6:07am
            I think yoiur overemphsizing some potential problems.... moreorless Send a private message to moreorless Jun 19 2010, 1:49pm
            Re: Once again, mmmmmm-MONEY will triumph. Runk Snusgrop Send a private message to Runk Snusgrop Jun 20 2010, 6:24am
                Once again... Sunflower Send a private message to Sunflower Jun 20 2010, 6:42am
                Maybe 540 degrees? // Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 20 2010, 7:25am
                    This whole thing feels like death by degrees! (GDT leaving; the suspense . . .) Ethel Duath Send a private message to Ethel Duath Jun 21 2010, 3:33am
    Some people may call D9 R11 Send a private message to R11 Jun 18 2010, 10:44pm
        Somehow it seem appropriate that R11 likes D9 ;) // Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 18 2010, 11:53pm
            Brother Kangi R11 Send a private message to R11 Jun 19 2010, 1:03am
                Well Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 19 2010, 1:34am
                    My brain too. Ethel Duath Send a private message to Ethel Duath Jun 19 2010, 1:47am
                    A,E,I,O,U, and sometimes Y? Pipe Dream Send a private message to Pipe Dream Jun 19 2010, 11:48am
                        OK You wany to hear about the feaver I have had for the past 5 days. Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 19 2010, 1:30pm
                            I couldn't resist... Pipe Dream Send a private message to Pipe Dream Jun 19 2010, 2:00pm
                                Thanx am slowly mending. Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 19 2010, 2:08pm
                                    Well then... Sunflower Send a private message to Sunflower Jun 20 2010, 4:03am
                                        Indeed I am on the mend and at work monitoring security all night long. Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 20 2010, 4:13am
                                            Uh, Kangi... Sunflower Send a private message to Sunflower Jun 20 2010, 4:40am
                                                I think that people are uncertain how to respond to what you write. Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 20 2010, 5:48am
                                                    That was my chief lament Sunflower Send a private message to Sunflower Jun 20 2010, 6:39am
                                                I like Knagi's comment of... Huan71 Send a private message to Huan71 Jun 20 2010, 10:49am
                                                    A statement from Guillermo Sunflower Send a private message to Sunflower Jun 21 2010, 12:37am
                                                        Posts, the Director and the vision.. Huan71 Send a private message to Huan71 Jun 21 2010, 9:16am
                                                            Lets call the whole thing off? NOT Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 21 2010, 9:55am
                                                                "Let us all hope for the best. It will save a lot of stomach linings." Patty Send a private message to Patty Jun 21 2010, 3:54pm
                                                Actually I have reponded several times to your posts.... Owain Send a private message to Owain Jun 20 2010, 8:30pm
                    Ahhh, I see R11 Send a private message to R11 Jun 21 2010, 6:43pm
    I had serious troubles liking District 9 - macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Jun 18 2010, 10:52pm
    It's not like we have a choice right? Pipe Dream Send a private message to Pipe Dream Jun 18 2010, 11:26pm
        Basically... Malveth The Eternal Send a private message to Malveth The Eternal Jun 18 2010, 11:30pm
    Any clues from Neill himself? Nerwen Send a private message to Nerwen Jun 18 2010, 11:43pm
    my initial reaction was discomfort Oiotįri Send a private message to Oiotįri Jun 19 2010, 12:05am
    Link for those like me who don't know much about him... weaver Send a private message to weaver Jun 19 2010, 12:27am
    Hmmm... I might like this choice. entmaiden Send a private message to entmaiden Jun 19 2010, 1:26am
    Its an interesting idea ... Elven Send a private message to Elven Jun 19 2010, 1:49am
    Here's something I found Oiotįri Send a private message to Oiotįri Jun 19 2010, 2:12am
    PJ has an uncanny nose for talent. Ataahua Send a private message to Ataahua Jun 19 2010, 3:07am
        Yes, indeed (and do we have any word yet on other departments heads -- DP, Production Design, Costume Design et al) CINE Send a private message to CINE Jun 20 2010, 1:53am
            No word that I know of Arwen's daughter Send a private message to Arwen's daughter Jun 20 2010, 3:49pm
                Costumes CINE Send a private message to CINE Jun 21 2010, 2:04am
                    Hmm... Arwen's daughter Send a private message to Arwen's daughter Jun 21 2010, 3:58am
                        i don't want the hobbit to be made like a harry potter movie! Silmaril Send a private message to Silmaril Jun 21 2010, 7:20am
                        Great List (Canonero = Legend)! CINE Send a private message to CINE Jun 21 2010, 8:30am
    I have never seen a single movie he has made. Woodyend Send a private message to Woodyend Jun 19 2010, 3:16am
        That's my fear too :( Alassė Send a private message to Alassė Jun 19 2010, 5:28am
        Don't despair before you've even watched District 9 Kyriel Send a private message to Kyriel Jun 19 2010, 10:55am
            I am glad you wrote this Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 19 2010, 1:51pm
                Me too, Kangi. Nicely said, Kyriel Altaira Send a private message to Altaira Jun 19 2010, 3:32pm
    It is a wise guess he would do it especially when... ringer5150 Send a private message to ringer5150 Jun 19 2010, 6:51am
        Brilliant... Huan71 Send a private message to Huan71 Jun 20 2010, 10:52am
    Heavy sigh Doriath Send a private message to Doriath Jun 19 2010, 8:03am
        Amen... Sunflower Send a private message to Sunflower Jun 19 2010, 11:06am
        We do not know Neill Blomkamp's knowledge of Tolkien.// Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 19 2010, 1:56pm
    Well... dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Jun 19 2010, 12:50pm
        There is only the one. Pipe Dream Send a private message to Pipe Dream Jun 19 2010, 1:17pm
    I've always liked the idea of Blomkamp Eldorion Send a private message to Eldorion Jun 19 2010, 2:27pm
    What can I say? Marionette Send a private message to Marionette Jun 19 2010, 2:37pm
    Neill Blomkamp on the Forums chrismortega Send a private message to chrismortega Jun 19 2010, 3:10pm
        D9: A story of redemption Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 19 2010, 3:39pm
            well... chrismortega Send a private message to chrismortega Jun 20 2010, 12:17am
    Just an Idea... Bound Send a private message to Bound Jun 19 2010, 3:37pm
        Lucas said that? Patty Send a private message to Patty Jun 19 2010, 3:52pm
            yeah Bound Send a private message to Bound Jun 19 2010, 7:07pm
        It's worth noting that TLB also received a lot of praise. Ataahua Send a private message to Ataahua Jun 19 2010, 9:30pm
            I think it will be considered a failure by anyone if it doesn’t equal LOTR. Woodyend Send a private message to Woodyend Jun 19 2010, 9:43pm
                I've just realised Ataahua Send a private message to Ataahua Jun 19 2010, 10:13pm
            I did enjoy it... Buchanicus Send a private message to Buchanicus Jun 20 2010, 12:42am
                Choice of material. Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 20 2010, 12:55am
                Same. / Ataahua Send a private message to Ataahua Jun 20 2010, 1:05am
            which is why he doens't want to do The Hobbit Oiotįri Send a private message to Oiotįri Jun 20 2010, 12:54am
            ... Bound Send a private message to Bound Jun 20 2010, 9:22am
                What do critics know? R11 Send a private message to R11 Jun 21 2010, 8:32pm
                    I agree... Bound Send a private message to Bound Jun 21 2010, 9:09pm
                        Director strong enough to keep PJ out of it Gandalf'sMother Jun 22 2010, 3:37am
                            Couldn't agree with you more... Bound Send a private message to Bound Jun 22 2010, 6:25am
    A rumour, though I still think xy Jun 19 2010, 5:41pm
        I think just the opisit would be true. Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 20 2010, 12:11am
            hmm xy Jun 20 2010, 7:53am
            I dont think SPJ would do that ... just yet anyway ... Elven Send a private message to Elven Jun 21 2010, 10:54am
    i really hope so! marlonbrando76 Send a private message to marlonbrando76 Jun 19 2010, 7:39pm
    Not sold on this guy. Uruk-Hai Send a private message to Uruk-Hai Jun 19 2010, 7:40pm
    I'm open to whatever PJ thinks is best Garfeimao Send a private message to Garfeimao Jun 19 2010, 8:10pm
        Well said! Buchanicus Send a private message to Buchanicus Jun 19 2010, 8:57pm
        That's a very good point dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Jun 19 2010, 10:00pm
            Perhaps something else occurred that caused a crisis. Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 20 2010, 12:28am
                I'm inclined to agree with you Voronwė_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwė_the_Faithful Jun 20 2010, 1:28am
                    Curious Sunflower Send a private message to Sunflower Jun 20 2010, 5:15am
                        Nothing so arcane: Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 20 2010, 6:09am
                    That's true dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Jun 20 2010, 7:45am
                    Probably because the announcement had not been made. entmaiden Send a private message to entmaiden Jun 20 2010, 12:29pm
                        Exactly. This is standard practice. Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Jun 20 2010, 8:19pm
                            Agreed Owain Send a private message to Owain Jun 20 2010, 8:23pm
                            You're both missing my point Voronwė_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwė_the_Faithful Jun 20 2010, 8:27pm
                                I am with you on this. Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 20 2010, 8:46pm
                                I disagree. Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Jun 20 2010, 8:47pm
                                    I respect your opinion Voronwė_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwė_the_Faithful Jun 20 2010, 8:53pm
                                        Can you help me pasi Send a private message to pasi Jun 20 2010, 10:48pm
                                            pasi macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Jun 20 2010, 11:00pm
                                            People are interested in what GdT does Voronwė_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwė_the_Faithful Jun 20 2010, 11:19pm
                                    Maybe, maybe not SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Jun 20 2010, 9:49pm
                                I agree with Silverlode entmaiden Send a private message to entmaiden Jun 20 2010, 11:30pm
    so Comic-Con is a month away Oiotįri Send a private message to Oiotįri Jun 20 2010, 2:45pm
        comic con annoucment would be great, but on the other hand... ringer5150 Send a private message to ringer5150 Jun 20 2010, 6:30pm
            Comic-con Announcement Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Jun 20 2010, 8:54pm
                Another big (yet disappointing) announcement? ...like the Blu-Ray fiasco? SteveDJ Send a private message to SteveDJ Jun 21 2010, 5:55pm
    About Experience rings7 Send a private message to rings7 Jun 20 2010, 3:55pm
    New hobbit director pasi Send a private message to pasi Jun 20 2010, 5:01pm
        which new words? // Oiotįri Send a private message to Oiotįri Jun 20 2010, 5:05pm
            the words from Ian pasi Send a private message to pasi Jun 20 2010, 5:29pm
                oh, yeah, I read that Oiotįri Send a private message to Oiotįri Jun 20 2010, 5:39pm
    Honestly duats Send a private message to duats Jun 21 2010, 12:07am
    not happy... merklynn Send a private message to merklynn Jun 21 2010, 1:49pm
        Sorry, merklynn dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Jun 21 2010, 2:19pm
            I'm not losing hope... merklynn Send a private message to merklynn Jun 21 2010, 2:37pm

 
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.