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Istar Indigo
Bree
May 22 2007, 1:12pm
Views: 1887
Shortcut
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Similarly, Tolkien incorporates bits and pieces of history into his fantasy, but the bits and pieces come from all over. The Shire, Tolkien himself admitted, is based on the rural Victorian English countryside of Tolkien's youth, and the hobbits on rural Victorian Englishmen. But that does not mean we are in 19th century England. We are, instead, in a part of Fairie that resembles rural 19th century England. But it is still Fairie. -from Curious' blog mentioned above. Curious I completely agree with much you point out about the Gaffer, his "court" at the Ivy Bush, and his relationship to genealogy, to story, and (I think) to Faerie. The Gaffer is occupied in an age-old activity, one that brings a hobbit of his sort as close to Faerie as he will ever get: tavern story-telling. During his consideration of Faerie's temporal discontiguity, Tolkien writes in his essay "Smith of Wooten Major" [published in Verlyn's wonderful edition of the text of the same name], "I have often said that this idea must have originated in inns: for nowhere does time 'fly' so fast compared with daily experience as when sitting and drinking and conversing with dear friends in an inn." Inns are not located "near" Faerie, nor do they harbor some magical doorway by which we [hobbits?] can enter into that domain. But the tavern is a traditional social space at which men did and do come together to 'escape' routine and to enthusuatically share stories. There are some significant similarities and obvious differences between the Ivy Bush and the Eagle and Child where the Inklings met for a time. For Tolkien and his cirlce, the tavern was a doorway to Faerie, if only metaphorically. ps. I emphasized 'men' because I think for Tolkien and his hobbits, this was seen as a male-oriented space. This is the subject of an essay I am workin on, so any contribution to this line of thought is greatly appreciated. pps. I am utterly in awe of the level of analysis witnessed above. lol Absolutely in awe.
(This post was edited by INDIGO ISTARI on May 22 2007, 1:21pm)
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Tolkien at University of Vermont
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Istar Indigo
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May 22 2007, 12:51am
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*pulls up chairs*
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Ataahua
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May 22 2007, 1:07am
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*sets out boxes of donuts on tables*
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dernwyn
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May 22 2007, 1:41am
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Mountain Dew and Domino's Pizza
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drogo
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May 22 2007, 2:33am
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Good to see that
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dernwyn
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May 22 2007, 2:48am
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Bilbo, in Bag End. But does it seem fitting?
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Curious
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May 22 2007, 1:37am
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No one speaks.
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N.E. Brigand
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May 22 2007, 2:33am
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OK,
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Ataahua
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May 22 2007, 2:53am
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Perhaps I should have phrased the question like this
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Istar Indigo
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May 22 2007, 3:06am
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A less "trouble"-some answer.
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N.E. Brigand
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May 22 2007, 3:34am
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Oh, you are trouble./
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Curious
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May 22 2007, 10:38am
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As Bilbo says at the Council of Elrond
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sevilodorf
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May 22 2007, 4:05am
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We can also...
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Silverlode
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May 22 2007, 9:38am
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I vote for separate threads
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Wynnie
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May 22 2007, 12:11pm
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I agree. Plus, when we expand all threads, the stickies don't expand.
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Curious
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May 22 2007, 5:10pm
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I'll bite
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squire
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May 22 2007, 5:46am
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The Gaffer was who I first thought of as well.
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Curious
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May 22 2007, 10:48am
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I think we can work this out without too much more trouble, and move on to the meaning of the answer.
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squire
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May 22 2007, 12:41pm
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I feel like I am back in school trying to guess
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Curious
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May 22 2007, 2:20pm
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*mods up* /
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N.E. Brigand
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May 22 2007, 9:38pm
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Close to my line of thinking
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Istar Indigo
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May 22 2007, 1:12pm
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I couldn't keep it up.
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Curious
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May 22 2007, 3:55pm
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Doorways
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Darkstone
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May 22 2007, 4:21pm
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That sounds more like The Prancing Pony.
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Curious
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May 22 2007, 5:02pm
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But...
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Darkstone
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May 22 2007, 5:30pm
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I love that 'Smith' essay.
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N.E. Brigand
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May 22 2007, 4:46pm
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Good point
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Istar Indigo
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May 22 2007, 5:57pm
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Hmmmm....
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Darkstone
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May 22 2007, 6:37pm
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I have nothing valuable to add, just a quibble.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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May 22 2007, 8:01pm
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There are two works titled "Smith of Wootton Major".
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N.E. Brigand
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May 22 2007, 8:46pm
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Ooh, interesting, thanks!//
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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May 23 2007, 12:39am
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First individual/first character
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a.s.
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May 22 2007, 10:29am
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Hmmmm....
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Darkstone
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May 22 2007, 3:30pm
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I'd go for the Gaffer too
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FarFromHome
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May 22 2007, 7:30pm
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Since you brought up Sam...
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Istar Indigo
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May 22 2007, 7:38pm
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Aha!
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Curious
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May 22 2007, 8:20pm
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hang on a sec...a.s. raises hand...
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a.s.
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May 22 2007, 9:19pm
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There it is!
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Darkstone
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May 22 2007, 9:25pm
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so...do I get credit for my answer???
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a.s.
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May 22 2007, 9:32pm
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Hey
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Darkstone
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May 22 2007, 9:38pm
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well
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a.s.
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May 22 2007, 9:56pm
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Well, my thinking was
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FarFromHome
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May 23 2007, 5:00am
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Oh my goodness...
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eliza_uvm
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May 23 2007, 6:11pm
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Hi, eliza!
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dernwyn
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May 23 2007, 7:40pm
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I feel silly
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eliza_uvm
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May 23 2007, 7:49pm
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no, please don't
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a.s.
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May 23 2007, 7:54pm
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No, no, don't...
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dernwyn
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May 24 2007, 2:20am
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An invasion of dragons might be good for They.
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N.E. Brigand
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May 23 2007, 8:04pm
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I love that last point.
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Curious
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May 23 2007, 8:20pm
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excellant thoughts...
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Daughter of Nienna
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May 23 2007, 9:18pm
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Nice thoughts!
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Kimi
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May 23 2007, 10:41pm
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I'd never given much thought
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FarFromHome
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May 24 2007, 5:16am
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various interpretations
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Istar Indigo
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May 24 2007, 3:03pm
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But the hobbits are hardly Anglo-Saxons, or Inklings.
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Curious
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May 24 2007, 5:40pm
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Sam is the stealth hero.
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Curious
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May 22 2007, 8:18pm
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Another way of looking at the heroes
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FarFromHome
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May 22 2007, 8:44pm
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Yeah.
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Darkstone
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May 22 2007, 8:48pm
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I think it was my third reading
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Daughter of Nienna
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May 23 2007, 8:54pm
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I have to agree
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eliza_uvm
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May 24 2007, 3:05pm
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Precisely. Behind every great man
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Curious
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May 24 2007, 3:10pm
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Tom Bombadil, good or bad?
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myra_UVM
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May 25 2007, 1:24am
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Well, there's a provocative subject line!
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Finding Frodo
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May 25 2007, 2:42am
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Perhaps Boromir?
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Atlas
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May 25 2007, 6:38am
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Boromir!
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myra_UVM
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May 25 2007, 11:34pm
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Hum.
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Atlas
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May 29 2007, 6:39am
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no worries!
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myra_UVM
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May 29 2007, 12:21pm
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oh boromir...
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eliza_uvm
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May 29 2007, 3:25pm
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Boromir, Gollum, Denethor, and Lobelia Sackville-Baggins
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Curious
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May 29 2007, 6:46pm
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Boromir
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Istar Indigo
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May 31 2007, 1:08pm
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I never felt much sympathy for Boromir until he died.
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Curious
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May 31 2007, 1:44pm
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Wow.
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myra_UVM
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Jun 1 2007, 1:16am
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Brothers
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myra_UVM
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Jun 5 2007, 2:20am
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I love Faramir because
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eliza_uvm
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Jun 5 2007, 3:02pm
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Who should we believe?
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Wynnie
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May 29 2007, 7:50pm
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Good question.
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N.E. Brigand
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Jun 5 2007, 11:43pm
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I found Bombadil an amusing annoyance
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Ataahua
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May 25 2007, 7:06am
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What about Treebeard?
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Radhruin
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May 25 2007, 7:37am
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I was going to say
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Ataahua
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May 25 2007, 7:18pm
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"unexplainable"
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N.E. Brigand
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May 25 2007, 7:23pm
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Huh.
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Ataahua
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May 25 2007, 7:41pm
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I think Michaelangelo
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Daughter of Nienna
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May 26 2007, 12:44am
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Except that Treebeard admits
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Radhruin
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May 26 2007, 7:42am
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Hi, Myra, and welcome!
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Daughter of Nienna
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May 25 2007, 3:55am
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Similar thought process
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ahartfor_UVM
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May 25 2007, 6:18am
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Are you still reading through the book?
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Ataahua
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May 25 2007, 6:54am
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yes
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ahartfor_UVM
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May 25 2007, 2:57pm
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Oh!
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N.E. Brigand
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May 25 2007, 3:27pm
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I think you're on the edge...
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N.E. Brigand
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May 25 2007, 7:15am
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also Flieger's "Question of Time"
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a.s.
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May 25 2007, 11:21am
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See squire's footer...
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N.E. Brigand
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May 25 2007, 12:41pm
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yes, of course!! forgot about that!! //
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a.s.
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May 25 2007, 6:55pm
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I will try to answer all of your questions
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ahartfor_UVM
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May 25 2007, 2:55pm
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Comparing and contrasting Goldberry and Galadriel
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Curious
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May 25 2007, 6:22pm
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I hadn't thought of Aragorn!
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N.E. Brigand
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May 25 2007, 6:56pm
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I'm bad with Subject lines!
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ahartfor_UVM
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May 25 2007, 8:43pm
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I usually write mine...
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N.E. Brigand
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May 25 2007, 9:43pm
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The old forest...
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weaver
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May 26 2007, 12:42am
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You can still reply to FF's post //
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Daughter of Nienna
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May 26 2007, 12:57am
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Tee hee!
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Finding Frodo
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May 26 2007, 4:33am
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When is a dream not a dream?
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FarFromHome
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May 25 2007, 5:45pm
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Wow, thanks for that link! But new readers be aware that it's full of spoilers.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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May 27 2007, 7:48pm
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Tom does seem to be an immortal spirit of some kind,
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Curious
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May 25 2007, 6:11pm
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Tom's tales...
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N.E. Brigand
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May 25 2007, 9:00pm
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I was reminded of Beorn
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entmaiden
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May 25 2007, 4:25pm
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Good, but a bit too flamboyant for LotR.
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Curious
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May 25 2007, 5:57pm
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* Tom Bombadil references *
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Daughter of Nienna
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May 26 2007, 12:33am
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What a wonderful thread
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Istar Indigo
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May 28 2007, 1:54pm
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Tom, dreams, time: our previous discussion
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a.s.
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May 28 2007, 3:55pm
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