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X is for X-Ray vision ...

NottaSackville
Valinor

Mar 25 2010, 4:12am

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X is for X-Ray vision ... [In reply to]	Can't Post

(I'm glad you posted this early [early for Eastern US time, at least) as I'll be in a business meeting all day long)

Trust me, there's some Tolkien after the science...

[Science mode on]

We've probably all seen the representation of X-ray vision in cartoons or comic books - some nasty-looking rays shoot out of someones eyes, revealing some trinket hidden behind a wall, under a box, in a safe, etc.

How exactly these X-ray beams work, I don't know. When I was a kid, I used to think that our eyes worked by ray-vision as well - somehow our eyes "looked out" and saw stuff that was lit by light. But in reality, vision works when little packets of energy (photons of light) bounce off things and then into our eyes. Once in our eyes, they hit specific molecules and excite them. These excited molecules send a signal to our brain that eventually get interpreted as our eyes having "seen" those somethings that the light bounced off of.

The important thing here is that vision results from external light ENTERING the eye, not leaving it.

[Science mode off]

As I was reading the Hobbit for the eleventy-eleventh time recently, I resolved to post a topic in the Reading Room about something that has long bothered me in Tolkien's writing: Tolkien seemed enamored, particularly in the Hobbit, with the X-ray vision method of seeing things - rays of light shining out of the eye somehow help in seeing things.

We've got Gollum with his "pale, lamplike eyes". Bilbo sees Gollum off on his island as "two small points of light peering at him", and soon "the light in Gollum's eyes had become a green fire" and "he turned and saw Gollum's eyes like small green lamps". And once Bilbo is behind him (removing any possibility that Gollum's eyes are merely ultra-reflective and shining Sting's light back at him), "Bilbo could see the light of his eyes shining palely even from behind", and Gollum was "turning his head from side to side, as Bilbo could see from the faint glimmer on the walls", and finally, Gollum was "only a black shadow in the gleam of his own eyes".

Clearly this is not a case of Tolkien's frequently used method of "seemed as though", or "as if", or similar language to make us wonder whether the observer saw magic or just something natural but wondrous - there is no doubt that Gollum's eyes emit light.

But Gollum isn't the only Hobbit creature with overly-bright eyes, as we see when good lo' Smaug the Magnificent gets into the act: "He [Bilbo] was just about to step out on to the floor when he caught a sudden thin and piercing ray of red from under the drooping lid of Smaug's left eye." Since we'd just been told that "only the faintest glow could be seen" in Smaug's lair, there's no way Smaug's eye is just reflecting ambient light in a "piercing" way.

Finally, even protagonists get into the act during the Battle of Five Armies: "Out leapt the King under the Mountain, and his companions followed him. Hood and cloak were gone; they were in shining armor, and red light leapt from their eyes".

Smaug and the Dwarves only get ray-vision momentarily for dramatic effect, but Gollum gets it for a specific reason - so let's look at Gollum a little more closely.

Clearly his bright eyes are meant to help him see in the darkness. But shouldn't they really do just the opposite? I'm sure the idea is that the light emitted by his eyes bounces off things and helps him see them. But that just doesn't work! Much of the light emitted by his eyes would be immediately reflected right back into them. Light tends to reflect off of air/liquid interfaces such as the surface of our eyes - that's why our eyes have those nice, attractive specular highlights in them and are often described as "bright" and "shining", because they reflect part of the light that hits them. Well, any light emitted from inside our eyes would do the same thing, only this time it would be reflected back INTO the eye rather than away from it, effectively blinding the eyes rather than helping. One could maybe speculate that the liquid on the surface of the eye was the emitting material, but that would be even worse, because (since molecules don't have a front and a back) as much light would get emitted into the eye as away from it.

I basically envision all this ray-vision as the equivalent of shining a flashlight in your eyes to see in the dark - it does way more harm than good.

Gollum's eyes have been discussed here before - I found some discussion here.

Some questions:

1) Who needs an invisibility ring when everything runs around blinding itself anyway?

2) We know why Tolkien gave Gollum ray-vision, but why does Smaug have it?

3) Do the dwarves eyes really glow, or is that poetic license?

4) Does Tolkien's ray-vision bother you?

5) In a world where Smaug is both large enough that he can ruin entire mountain sides, his fall splinters an entire town and causes the lake to come "roaring in", but yet small enough to traverse through Dwarven tunnels killing the dwarves and collecting all their treasure, and a world where Smaug is capable of living in a vast wasteland with no food, coming out so infrequently that entire generations doubt he exists and yet he's capable of generating large amounts of energy and flame at a moments notice, is it wrong that what bothers me is his glowing eyes?

6) Are there any other creatures in Tolkien's works that have glowing eyes or ray vision, or is this a Hobbit thing? (Other than the extension of Gollum into LOTR)

7) Do I now need to forgive P. Jackson his laser-beam Sauron, since not only did he not really invent the idea, but it's practically canon for Tolkien's major evil creatures to have ray-vision?

8) Are there other famous examples in literature of creatures with ray vision? Did Tolkien maybe draw on any of these for his ideas?

My ability to participate during the day is going to be limited, but I'll check in before and after work -

Notta

Subject	User	Time
It's Tolkien Reading Day! Post your ABCs of Tolkien here.	N.E. Brigand	Mar 25 2010, 3:48am
C is for Cerin Amroth...	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 3:57am
Wow - nicely done!	NottaSackville	Mar 25 2010, 11:57am
<Bows low>	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 1:24pm
GREAT ELEPHANTS!	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 3:27pm
No problem - it's a common mistake	NottaSackville	Mar 25 2010, 3:53pm
But you did so...	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 4:56pm
A question	Kangi Ska	Mar 27 2010, 1:42am
Yep.//	Elizabeth	Mar 27 2010, 3:01am
As Lady Elizabeth says...	GAndyalf	Mar 27 2010, 3:18am
It raises the question...	Elizabeth	Mar 27 2010, 4:09am
<chuckle>	GAndyalf	Mar 27 2010, 5:57am
A good poet is aware of all levels of meaning in his work.	Kangi Ska	Mar 27 2010, 2:32pm
But he never tells us...	GAndyalf	Mar 27 2010, 3:56pm
A guess...	Elizabeth	Mar 27 2010, 6:20pm
A good poet offers the poem not its meaning	Kangi Ska	Mar 27 2010, 6:26pm
(smile)	GAndyalf	Mar 27 2010, 7:07pm
Simbelmyne or Evermind in ths common tongue	Kangi Ska	Mar 27 2010, 7:16pm
Thank you!	GAndyalf	Mar 27 2010, 7:21pm
Yes it is about time I reread the Silmarillion. It has been a couple years.//	Kangi Ska	Mar 27 2010, 8:09pm
The Heart of Elvendom on earth	Kangi Ska	Mar 27 2010, 8:03pm
Am I to understand then...	GAndyalf	Mar 27 2010, 8:21pm
A bit more difficult to explain	Kangi Ska	Mar 27 2010, 8:41pm
Cool!	GAndyalf	Mar 28 2010, 1:44am
The perilous realm	FarFromHome	Mar 31 2010, 4:22am
Nicely said! //	Voronw�_the_Faithful	Mar 31 2010, 2:33pm
No.	Night Wolf	Apr 1 2010, 4:58pm
Perhaps the place chose them. //	Kangi Ska	Mar 27 2010, 2:22pm
T is for Tolkien	Magpie	Mar 25 2010, 4:10am
Very "British"...	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 3:25pm
British wit	Magpie	Mar 26 2010, 1:16am
"Frank-ness"	GAndyalf	Mar 26 2010, 1:32am
well...	batik	Mar 26 2010, 1:11am
re: coffee	Magpie	Mar 26 2010, 1:14am
X is for X-Ray vision ...	NottaSackville	Mar 25 2010, 4:12am
LOL at #5 :-) //	Magpie	Mar 25 2010, 4:16am
Interesting question!	FarFromHome	Mar 25 2010, 7:21am
E is for Emission Theory	Darkstone	Mar 25 2010, 3:46pm
Interesting - good to know I wasn't alone...	NottaSackville	Mar 25 2010, 3:54pm
I think....	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 4:54pm
Light of eyes	White Gull	Mar 26 2010, 2:00pm
The answer to Smaug's powers...	Kangi Ska	Mar 27 2010, 2:05am
P is for Peregrin Took!	fairelvenlady	Mar 25 2010, 4:46am
Give or Took...	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 5:20pm
K is for Kirith Ungol	Modtheow	Mar 25 2010, 5:32am
corrected link	Modtheow	Mar 25 2010, 12:33pm
Tolkien - word pictures.	Istari68	Mar 25 2010, 4:16pm
"Ha, hmm, my friends, let us go for a walk!"...	batik	Mar 25 2010, 5:54am
sidestepping the quiz for a comment on the word Quickbeam	Magpie	Mar 25 2010, 1:57pm
Wow!	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 5:32pm
My son is Rowan	Kangi Ska	Mar 27 2010, 3:15pm
Hmmmm....	Darkstone	Mar 25 2010, 7:38pm
T is for Thursday!	sador	Mar 25 2010, 6:10am
How subversive, satirical and sharp of you	SirDennisC	Mar 25 2010, 7:49pm
E(�) is for E�rendil	Night Wolf	Mar 25 2010, 7:15am
Interesting	SirDennisC	Mar 25 2010, 9:13pm
B is for Beowulf	SirDennisC	Mar 25 2010, 9:35am
worthy of study	Modtheow	Mar 25 2010, 5:56pm
I'm glad we agree!	SirDennisC	Mar 25 2010, 9:18pm
Scholarly...	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 6:01pm
Thank you	SirDennisC	Mar 25 2010, 10:33pm
Yes but don't forget...	FarFromHome	Mar 26 2010, 4:52am
(laughs)	GAndyalf	Mar 26 2010, 1:30pm
I have to agree	FarFromHome	Mar 26 2010, 2:05pm
Cool stuff!	GAndyalf	Mar 26 2010, 4:14pm
Would that be a stoat?	N.E. Brigand	Mar 26 2010, 5:51pm
Whoops!	FarFromHome	Mar 27 2010, 1:13am
Regardless of the typo	SirDennisC	Mar 27 2010, 3:38am
F is for F�anor	Elizabeth	Mar 25 2010, 10:03am
In pity for Feanor...	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 6:39pm
Thank you!	Elizabeth	Mar 25 2010, 8:05pm
I is for Ioreth	dernwyn	Mar 25 2010, 10:15am
I think it says a lot...	Magpie	Mar 25 2010, 2:07pm
Yes, a favourite	SirDennisC	Mar 26 2010, 3:42am
Intriguing idea indeed!	GAndyalf	Mar 26 2010, 1:33pm
Concurring with GAndy	dernwyn	Mar 26 2010, 3:43pm
Ioreth is a fun character.	fairelvenlady	Mar 27 2010, 8:26pm
A little learning...	FarFromHome	Mar 28 2010, 1:01am
From a medieval history syllabus...	GAndyalf	Mar 28 2010, 1:51am
my own favorite quote	sevilodorf	Mar 28 2010, 5:43pm
L is for Loth�rien	drogo	Mar 25 2010, 10:19am
through a high window	Modtheow	Mar 25 2010, 5:49pm
I'd never thought about it that way	Oiot�ri	Mar 25 2010, 9:36pm
Nasmith, for me.	Elizabeth	Mar 25 2010, 10:46pm
Thanks for those links!	Aunt Dora Baggins	Mar 26 2010, 1:00am
Middle-earth in HD...	batik	Mar 26 2010, 9:16pm
I guess it depends	FarFromHome	Mar 29 2010, 1:09pm
J is for Josef Stalin	Pryderi	Mar 25 2010, 11:36am
It seems,	SirDennisC	Mar 25 2010, 9:32pm
He does seem to dislike "globalisation" doesn't he?...	Pryderi	Mar 25 2010, 11:01pm
'D' is for Denethor	Hamfast Gamgee	Mar 25 2010, 11:38am
Denethor, son of Ecthelion	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 6:57pm
W is for Woses!	Tweezers of Thu	Mar 25 2010, 12:22pm
always something new	Modtheow	Mar 26 2010, 12:20am
Oh, yes! Even after 44 years (gasp!)...	Tweezers of Thu	Mar 26 2010, 4:58pm
Ack - they're everywhere!	NottaSackville	Mar 26 2010, 12:24pm
Another example! Flame-eyed Elves!	Tweezers of Thu	Mar 26 2010, 5:36pm
"L" is also for "Letters"	Elwen	Mar 25 2010, 1:37pm
(Soft, benevolent smile for Frodo)	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 7:17pm
O is for Ol�r� Mall�	Oiot�ri	Mar 25 2010, 2:33pm
Roverandom?	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 7:23pm
R is for Rosie	Rosie-with-the-ribbons	Mar 25 2010, 3:27pm
(laughs) Getting two in at once?	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 7:29pm
Yep	Rosie-with-the-ribbons	Mar 26 2010, 9:23am
Wish I had your impishness!	GAndyalf	Mar 26 2010, 4:50pm
Muchos gracias	Rosie-with-the-ribbons	Mar 26 2010, 6:59pm
It's not too far off...	GAndyalf	Mar 26 2010, 7:14pm
Close enough...	GAndyalf	Mar 26 2010, 7:21pm
Marido Oscuro, lol...	Evernight	Mar 26 2010, 7:03pm
<Takes his lumps>	GAndyalf	Mar 26 2010, 7:16pm
G is for Gandalf	Nerdanel	Mar 25 2010, 6:01pm
At a guess...	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 7:35pm
laughter	Modtheow	Mar 26 2010, 2:33am
S is for Smith of Wootton Major.	Evernight	Mar 25 2010, 6:08pm
(Daubs tears)	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 7:44pm
"Why is Faery important? How important is it to you?"	SirDennisC	Mar 26 2010, 4:12am
A is for Arkenstone!	entmaiden	Mar 25 2010, 6:53pm
Because you asked...	GAndyalf	Mar 25 2010, 7:51pm
It just so happens	Oiot�ri	Mar 25 2010, 8:57pm
Z is for Zirakzigil	weaver	Mar 25 2010, 8:29pm
"I need no map," said Gimli...	N.E. Brigand	Mar 25 2010, 9:20pm
Aha! More Z's!	weaver	Mar 25 2010, 9:46pm
On living rock.	Pryderi	Mar 25 2010, 11:34pm
Zis monument, carved into ze hillside - it is zuspicious, no?	squire	Mar 26 2010, 1:53am
U is for Uol� K�vion, the Man in the Moon	D�n o�Nandor-on-Anduin	Mar 25 2010, 10:43pm
How charming...	SirDennisC	Mar 26 2010, 2:48am
E is for Erendis	acheron	Mar 26 2010, 12:39am
I really like this story	Modtheow	Mar 27 2010, 1:49pm
V is for Voronw�	Voronw�_the_Faithful	Mar 26 2010, 2:12am
One of the amazing things about the depth of Tolkien's writing -	NottaSackville	Mar 26 2010, 12:48pm
I remembered...	GAndyalf	Mar 26 2010, 4:55pm
H is for Halfling!	aranelthehobbit22	Mar 26 2010, 2:21am
No worries	SirDennisC	Mar 26 2010, 2:30am
Thank you	GAndyalf	Mar 26 2010, 2:40am
M is for Morwen	Saelind	Mar 26 2010, 2:54am
The saddest...	GAndyalf	Mar 26 2010, 3:18am
M is for Morwen	Saelind	Mar 26 2010, 3:48am
'H' is for, hip, hip, hooray, everyone!	Altaira	Mar 26 2010, 3:33am
N is for Niggle	Finding Frodo	Mar 26 2010, 4:11am
Whoops!	Finding Frodo	Mar 26 2010, 2:33pm
Niggle and Tasks...	GAndyalf	Mar 26 2010, 4:33pm
Y is for Yggdrasil.	N.E. Brigand	Mar 26 2010, 6:42am
How did drasils turn into wargs?	NottaSackville	Mar 26 2010, 3:47pm
A is for N.E. Brigand -	NottaSackville	Mar 26 2010, 12:28pm
Seconded!	sador	Mar 26 2010, 12:31pm
Thirded!	entmaiden	Mar 27 2010, 12:09am
All in favour	Modtheow	Mar 27 2010, 1:57pm
And a big thank-you from me, too	Lily Fairbairn	Mar 28 2010, 6:03pm
Wow! This is great!	Compa_Mighty	Apr 4 2010, 7:52pm

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