|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FarFromHome
Valinor
Jun 10 2009, 4:18pm
Views: 431
Shortcut
|
Tolkien seems to have been aware that LOTR had commercial possibilities while he viewed The Sil as a bit more problematical. I think Tolkien undertook LotR for the money, as a "Hobbit sequel". But he didn't just churn out a generic sequel, he ended up making the best story he could, using all his skill and craft - resulting in something that was probably a harder sell than that Hobbit sequel would have been. Still, he did write it for the money, and there's no harm in that. In fact it sounds pretty much what squire descibes the dwarves as doing: ...the dwarves think of all their crafts as art made for a higher purpose - beauty and the joy of making - even when they subsequently sell it for food. I don't think that is an "idealized" way depict a good craftsman's attitude to his craft. If he does his work out of the desire to make something beautiful, it's perfectly natural that he would want to sell it afterwards to someone who can enjoy it. That's probably the ultimate satisfaction for the good craftsman. It's "art for art's sake" that is the idealized side of the equation, I'd say. I don't see how he could have missed Forrest J. Ackerman's extreme enthusiasm for the story. I suppose there's a difference between enthusiasm and true understanding! Although he seems to have liked some of the imagery that Ackerman showed him, Tolkien thought the story was bad. So from his own point of view, he was choosing to allow a pot-boiler to be made in his name in exchange for cash. But I suppose that would just be like a dwarf allowing some untalented (from his perspective) workman to copy one of his designs. It doesn't really matter that much - the original craft remains unchanged.
They went in, and Sam shut the door. But even as he did so, he heard suddenly, deep and unstilled, the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth. From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings
|
|
|
Subject
|
User
|
Time
|
**Hobbit Discussion – Inside Information** Part 1 – Bilbo earns his reward
|
grammaboodawg
|
Jun 8 2009, 1:59pm
|
Thoughts.
|
Curious
|
Jun 8 2009, 2:57pm
|
*nods and chuckles intermittently*
|
grammaboodawg
|
Jun 8 2009, 7:00pm
|
Peep!
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 8 2009, 4:16pm
|
*snigger* Did you see the 2nd one? ;) //
|
grammaboodawg
|
Jun 8 2009, 6:53pm
|
Whups!
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 8 2009, 11:12pm
|
Tolkien's characterization of dwarves makes me uncomfortable.
|
Curious
|
Jun 8 2009, 7:28pm
|
That 1965 interview
|
N.E. Brigand
|
Jun 8 2009, 8:01pm
|
Does Rateliffe mention 1965?
|
FarFromHome
|
Jun 8 2009, 8:51pm
|
Recorded in 1965, broadcast in 1971 (see Scull/Hammond). //
|
N.E. Brigand
|
Jun 8 2009, 10:09pm
|
I'm fairly sure that the 1971 audio is an edited version of the 1965 interview
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
|
Jun 9 2009, 6:32am
|
Very interesting!
|
Curious
|
Jun 9 2009, 4:53pm
|
Indeed!
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:07pm
|
Yes, I can see why Christopher may not
|
Curious
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:14pm
|
WOW!
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:30pm
|
For all we know
|
N.E. Brigand
|
Jun 9 2009, 6:49pm
|
For all we know, what?
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
|
Jun 9 2009, 7:09pm
|
We've only just begun
|
N.E. Brigand
|
Jun 9 2009, 7:29pm
|
So you weren't uncomfortable
|
FarFromHome
|
Jun 8 2009, 9:38pm
|
No, now that Tolkien made the real-world comparison,
|
Curious
|
Jun 8 2009, 11:12pm
|
Tolkien's personal arc
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 8 2009, 11:17pm
|
What makes me uncomfortable...
|
FarFromHome
|
Jun 9 2009, 10:08am
|
Some do, and some don't
|
sador
|
Jun 9 2009, 10:16am
|
But I do mind.
|
Curious
|
Jun 9 2009, 1:24pm
|
That's the problem...
|
FarFromHome
|
Jun 9 2009, 2:17pm
|
That's a nice way of letting Tolkien off the hook.
|
Curious
|
Jun 9 2009, 2:46pm
|
The interview raises several points.
|
FarFromHome
|
Jun 9 2009, 3:56pm
|
Tolkien is, however,
|
Curious
|
Jun 9 2009, 4:21pm
|
Match how?
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
|
Jun 9 2009, 4:37pm
|
That stereotype right there
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:19pm
|
I think that is a real stretch to call that a negative stereotype
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:37pm
|
My bad
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:49pm
|
Can you expand on this?
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
|
Jun 9 2009, 7:02pm
|
Like, okay. Tremendous love, not so much.
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 10 2009, 11:26pm
|
Whoa
|
squire
|
Jun 9 2009, 8:41pm
|
Does a cathedral count as an artefact?
|
Curious
|
Jun 9 2009, 8:51pm
|
Huh?
|
squire
|
Jun 10 2009, 12:06am
|
Fair enough.//
|
Curious
|
Jun 10 2009, 12:21am
|
Not so idealized.
|
FarFromHome
|
Jun 10 2009, 8:41am
|
Letter 202: "Art or cash."
|
Darkstone
|
Jun 10 2009, 1:18pm
|
Or girls.
|
Curious
|
Jun 10 2009, 1:42pm
|
It's not a dichotomy
|
FarFromHome
|
Jun 10 2009, 2:13pm
|
It's a continuum.
|
Darkstone
|
Jun 10 2009, 2:42pm
|
The treatment gave him pause.
|
N.E. Brigand
|
Jun 10 2009, 2:45pm
|
Was the Professor a "bleeder"?
|
Darkstone
|
Jun 10 2009, 3:49pm
|
Yeah.
|
FarFromHome
|
Jun 10 2009, 4:18pm
|
Yeah
|
Darkstone
|
Jun 10 2009, 4:38pm
|
"'No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.'"
|
Curious
|
Jun 10 2009, 4:54pm
|
What about a woman?
|
Darkstone
|
Jun 10 2009, 5:14pm
|
I'm afraid Johson
|
Curious
|
Jun 10 2009, 5:15pm
|
I'm a Blockhead.
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 10 2009, 11:48pm
|
I see the discrepancy now.
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 10 2009, 11:41pm
|
There's art and then there's art
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 10 2009, 11:32pm
|
Shaping versus shape?
|
Darkstone
|
Jun 9 2009, 8:48pm
|
Very good point!
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 10 2009, 11:29pm
|
Tolkien does not
|
Curious
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:49pm
|
You're right.
|
FarFromHome
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:04pm
|
It's a delicate matter.
|
Curious
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:25pm
|
Culture versus race
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:42pm
|
This is why...
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:13pm
|
I'm more worried about what I unconsciously reveal.
|
Curious
|
Jun 9 2009, 9:12pm
|
Sounds familiar.
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 10 2009, 11:36pm
|
That's a nice way of letting all authors off the hook.
|
N.E. Brigand
|
Jun 9 2009, 4:09pm
|
I'm not sure why they're on the hook in the first place.
|
FarFromHome
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:44pm
|
At most, Tolkien is on the hook
|
Curious
|
Jun 9 2009, 6:01pm
|
Exactly
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 9 2009, 4:43pm
|
Degrees of Discomfort
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 9 2009, 4:39pm
|
But had he outgrown it in 1965?//
|
Curious
|
Jun 9 2009, 4:51pm
|
He was working on it.
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:21pm
|
One might see The Hobbit as a sign of growth
|
sador
|
Jun 9 2009, 4:56pm
|
Gimli and Galadriel
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:47pm
|
I give him both more and less credit than that.
|
Curious
|
Jun 9 2009, 1:55pm
|
every one
|
Twit
|
Jun 9 2009, 2:09pm
|
Greed, etc.
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:04pm
|
Thank you
|
Twit
|
Jun 10 2009, 10:21am
|
Ubiquitous Patterns of Thought
|
Dreamdeer
|
Jun 9 2009, 4:54pm
|
We're still human
|
FarFromHome
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:17pm
|
"flexes his oratory muscles"!
|
dernwyn
|
Jun 9 2009, 2:18am
|
Thorin did, in 'A Warm Welcome'
|
sador
|
Jun 9 2009, 6:06am
|
The current situation
|
dernwyn
|
Jun 9 2009, 11:12am
|
Let's hope this wasn't the case:)...
|
batik
|
Jun 9 2009, 3:29am
|
That's what I love about doing these
|
grammaboodawg
|
Jun 11 2009, 4:47pm
|
Citizen soldier vs. hero
|
Beren IV
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:25am
|
Bilbo, Frodo, Merry, Sam, and Pippin
|
Curious
|
Jun 9 2009, 5:08pm
|
Except they're not fighting soldiers (for the most part)
|
Beren IV
|
Jun 9 2009, 8:12pm
|
Those monsters
|
Curious
|
Jun 9 2009, 9:05pm
|
Imperial Stormtrooper Syndrome
|
Darkstone
|
Jun 9 2009, 9:10pm
|
Tolkien did not undestand evil
|
Beren IV
|
Jun 10 2009, 12:41am
|
I don't think it's about not understanding.
|
FarFromHome
|
Jun 10 2009, 8:55am
|
Gee, that's pretty close
|
Curious
|
Jun 10 2009, 5:13pm
|
The men under Sauron (and Saruman) are different.
|
Curious
|
Jun 10 2009, 1:31pm
|
here goes...
|
Twit
|
Jun 9 2009, 11:55am
|
"Say so at once, and have done!"
|
FarFromHome
|
Jun 9 2009, 1:55pm
|
Preparing Himself for the Worst
|
GaladrielTX
|
Jun 9 2009, 11:10pm
|
Playing peek-a-boo
|
dernwyn
|
Jun 9 2009, 11:49pm
|
Merry did
|
sador
|
Jun 10 2009, 6:09am
|
|
|
|