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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Jun 1 2009, 4:23pm
Views: 966
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Most of them. Frodo doesn't, though. And Sam is "torn in two" between his love for Frodo and Rosie. That sets lots of readers wondering: ideas like "Brokeback Mount Doom" come from somewhere, even if they rely on a reading of the text that Tolkien himself never imagined.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> We're discussing The Hobbit in the Reading Room, Mar. 23 - Aug. 9. Everyone is welcome! Join us May 25-31 for "A Warm Welcome". +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= How to find old Reading Room discussions.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Tolkien at UVM
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Istar Indigo
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Jun 1 2009, 12:36am
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Thanks much for keeping this up-to-date.
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N.E. Brigand
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Jun 1 2009, 1:35am
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I have an important reason to hijack this thread....
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weaver
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Jun 1 2009, 2:08am
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*snickers* He did try to sneak it by us...
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dernwyn
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Jun 1 2009, 2:26am
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Glad you were on the look out for him...
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weaver
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Jun 1 2009, 3:06am
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I'm crashing the RR just to join in these congrats
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Magpie
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Jun 1 2009, 2:00pm
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Huh?
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Tolkien Forever
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Jun 1 2009, 7:32am
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Well, they do have children.
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N.E. Brigand
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Jun 1 2009, 4:23pm
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OF Course
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Tolkien Forever
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Jun 1 2009, 6:52pm
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Pedantic grammar point.
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Curious
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Jun 1 2009, 8:03pm
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I Wish
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Tolkien Forever
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Jun 1 2009, 9:24pm
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I'd go further than that.
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FarFromHome
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Jun 2 2009, 9:45am
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That's going too far, I judge.
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Curious
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Jun 2 2009, 10:42am
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How do you know?
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FarFromHome
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Jun 2 2009, 11:38am
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I know there is no mention of
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Curious
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Jun 2 2009, 12:59pm
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I'm sure you're right.
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FarFromHome
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Jun 2 2009, 3:15pm
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LotR is a feigned history,
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Curious
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Jun 2 2009, 3:42pm
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Good point.
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FarFromHome
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Jun 2 2009, 5:05pm
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Tolkien seems to have had a firm grasp
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Curious
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Jun 2 2009, 5:36pm
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****Caution: Naughty Word****
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Darkstone
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Jun 2 2009, 9:02pm
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Oh thank you!
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FarFromHome
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Jun 2 2009, 9:15pm
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Good catch! But I'm not sure what it proves.
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Curious
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Jun 2 2009, 10:49pm
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Actually, the "her" is Shelob, not Ungoliant
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Jun 2 2009, 11:57pm
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I don't see why
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Curious
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Jun 3 2009, 12:12am
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Because it says that her mates were her own offspring
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Jun 3 2009, 1:09am
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No, that makes sense.//
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Curious
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Jun 3 2009, 1:15am
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It proves...
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Darkstone
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Jun 3 2009, 9:59pm
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Blonde Gamgees
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 6 2009, 7:09pm
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That's an plausible theory, but it's only a theory.
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Curious
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Jun 7 2009, 9:00am
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That sounds much too hard-edged for Tolkien...
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FarFromHome
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Jun 7 2009, 10:33am
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Hints and allegations
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squire
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Jun 7 2009, 3:19pm
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Yes, I agree.
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FarFromHome
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Jun 7 2009, 4:24pm
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Middle-earth isn't idealized?
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Curious
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Jun 7 2009, 11:08pm
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This is really the nub...
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FarFromHome
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Jun 8 2009, 10:02am
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I'm glad you agree the stories are idealized,
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Curious
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Jun 8 2009, 10:39am
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I think I see.
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FarFromHome
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Jun 8 2009, 12:01pm
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One last quibble.
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Curious
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Jun 8 2009, 1:47pm
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To answer your quibble...
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FarFromHome
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Jun 8 2009, 2:43pm
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And the Akallabeth?
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Curious
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Jun 8 2009, 3:06pm
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Atheists in Atlantis
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 8 2009, 3:57pm
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So, if you think Sauron was lying,
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Curious
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Jun 8 2009, 5:34pm
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How about legend?
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FarFromHome
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Jun 8 2009, 4:16pm
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Point of clarification.
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Curious
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Jun 8 2009, 5:41pm
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Now you're putting...
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FarFromHome
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Jun 8 2009, 6:45pm
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No, I was just asking.
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Curious
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Jun 8 2009, 7:34pm
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There's always a way to explain
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 8 2009, 3:50pm
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But the elves are immortal.
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Curious
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Jun 8 2009, 5:31pm
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Nope, not me.
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 8 2009, 6:06pm
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But in the Silmarillion, the atheists
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Curious
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Jun 8 2009, 6:41pm
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And how does that differ from the Bible, exactly?
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 8 2009, 10:57pm
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But it is not plausible for Tolkien's readers
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Curious
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Jun 9 2009, 1:45pm
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Experience says otherwise
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 9 2009, 6:16pm
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But is it plausible that any reader
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Curious
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Jun 9 2009, 9:29pm
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It is possible, although there’s no way to know for sure.
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GaladrielTX
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Jun 9 2009, 11:26pm
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An entire subculture
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 11 2009, 12:08am
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Yes, but they don't think the narrator is lying
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Curious
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Jun 11 2009, 5:18am
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Some have said...
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 11 2009, 3:52pm
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We can speculate, of course. We
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Curious
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Jun 11 2009, 3:56pm
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But the elves
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FarFromHome
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Jun 8 2009, 6:54pm
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Realism and Fantasy
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 8 2009, 3:42pm
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Appendices and Fantasy
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Darkstone
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Jun 8 2009, 4:21pm
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I take a different approach.
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Curious
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Jun 8 2009, 5:26pm
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I think I am miscast
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 8 2009, 6:01pm
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So you know it when you see it?
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Curious
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Jun 8 2009, 6:37pm
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What are we talking about, exactly?
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 8 2009, 10:43pm
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Idealized characters are not necessarily flawless.
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Curious
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Jun 9 2009, 1:42pm
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Closer to agreement
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 9 2009, 6:12pm
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You meant Luthien, didn't you?
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sador
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Jun 9 2009, 6:20pm
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Doesn't prove it
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 9 2009, 6:30pm
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D'oh! I missed the most important part!
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sador
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Jun 10 2009, 5:51am
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Maeglin
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 11 2009, 12:11am
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I'm going out on a limb when I theorize
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Curious
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Jun 9 2009, 9:25pm
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I don't reject your theory. Do you reject mine?
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Curious
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Jun 7 2009, 7:50pm
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Not Bilbo!
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 7 2009, 9:31pm
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"Frankly, I think the Ring would have interfered with any kind of romance in his life."
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squire
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Jun 7 2009, 10:20pm
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Um...misunderstanding
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 8 2009, 2:08am
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Ummm...
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 6 2009, 6:58pm
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Well, not exactly...
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FarFromHome
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Jun 6 2009, 9:04pm
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Have you read N.E.B.'s report?
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sador
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Jun 2 2009, 5:05am
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Again....
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Tolkien Forever
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Jun 2 2009, 6:16am
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I see Bilbo and Frodo's bachelorhood as a price they pay
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Curious
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Jun 2 2009, 1:17pm
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plug for the UVM class reading!
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kejensenuvm
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Jun 7 2009, 3:06am
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Tolkien seems to go out of his way
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Curious
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Jun 7 2009, 9:15am
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Good point.
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FarFromHome
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Jun 7 2009, 5:27pm
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Fanfic, gender studies, and Timmons on hobbit sensuality
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Modtheow
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Jun 2 2009, 6:42pm
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One quibble.
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Curious
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Jun 2 2009, 7:21pm
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SEX! *hush!* ok, sex.
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squire
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Jun 2 2009, 10:03pm
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Of Course
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Tolkien Forever
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Jun 2 2009, 10:50pm
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One Incident
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Tolkien Forever
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Jun 3 2009, 7:48pm
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Yes, but
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Curious
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Jun 3 2009, 8:13pm
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Not Sure
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Tolkien Forever
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Jun 3 2009, 9:13pm
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I would assume that depends on his master plan
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Arwen's daughter
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Jun 3 2009, 9:24pm
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You know, I could argue even with that
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sador
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Jun 4 2009, 7:11am
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I Think
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Tolkien Forever
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Jun 4 2009, 2:05pm
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Hobbit sex
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Darkstone
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Jun 2 2009, 9:21pm
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Yes.
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FarFromHome
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Jun 3 2009, 10:06am
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breathing, eating, working, begetting...and
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a.s.
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Jun 3 2009, 11:07am
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A thought on your 'tangent'...
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FarFromHome
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Jun 3 2009, 11:28am
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Yes, older fairy stories are often sensual.
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Curious
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Jun 3 2009, 12:48pm
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Rising to the challenge
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 6 2009, 7:29pm
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Thanks and Congrats!
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Istar Indigo
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Jun 1 2009, 4:44pm
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Your innocent post
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Pryderi
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Jun 3 2009, 1:28am
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A preposition is something you shouldn't end a sentence with. /
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Darkstone
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Jun 3 2009, 3:07am
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Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put. /
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Atlas
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Jun 8 2009, 2:18am
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UVM students -- don't be shy, jump right in!
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N.E. Brigand
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Jun 3 2009, 3:59am
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Thanks to all who replied to me and ok I will "chime in"
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Pryderi
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Jun 3 2009, 9:51pm
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I read an extensive analysis of The Hobbit along those lines once
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squire
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Jun 3 2009, 10:24pm
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In answer to your question: No We Can't.//
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Pryderi
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Jun 3 2009, 11:12pm
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That's a very interesting theory.
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Curious
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Jun 3 2009, 11:36pm
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Don't Buy It
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Tolkien Forever
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Jun 4 2009, 12:42am
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Even when it's on sale? Cheap?
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squire
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Jun 4 2009, 1:17am
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Been Here Before
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Tolkien Forever
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Jun 4 2009, 3:48am
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Horse liberation!
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 6 2009, 7:52pm
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Thank you Dreamdeer
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Pryderi
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Jun 6 2009, 10:45pm
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And Tolkien certainly recognized such symbolism in other stories.
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N.E. Brigand
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Jun 4 2009, 2:00pm
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But not his own
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squire
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Jun 7 2009, 9:16pm
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Projection is certainly a danger.
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Curious
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Jun 4 2009, 7:38am
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Archetypes aren't allegories
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 6 2009, 7:49pm
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The feminine without the female.
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FarFromHome
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Jun 4 2009, 9:22am
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Not Done Yet
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Tolkien Forever
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Jun 4 2009, 2:17pm
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Well, you know how it is...
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FarFromHome
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Jun 5 2009, 7:41am
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I have staunch faith in heterosexual friendships
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 6 2009, 8:01pm
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Online....
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Tolkien Forever
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Jun 7 2009, 5:44pm
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Interesting premise!
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Dreamdeer
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Jun 6 2009, 7:40pm
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might as well try to stop the wind, as try to stop the RR when
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a.s.
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Jun 3 2009, 10:50am
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You can talk with the admins about it on Feedback.
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Curious
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Jun 3 2009, 1:08pm
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