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Aerin
Grey Havens
Apr 21 2007, 5:19pm
Views: 4515
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Thanks, FFH, Stapper, and Magpie.
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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Pardon me for combining my responses. Concerning the U.S. as a "religious nation," it strikes me as highly ironic that a nation founded heavily on the notion of religious freedom is so oppressive to those who depart from mainstream beliefs. The (false) assumption that the U.S. was founded as a "Christian" nation is everywhere and inescapable, from the national to the local level. Even in my community's "civic" choral society (that used to be our name), our director speaks to the group in terms that imply that we all hold to some faith, and at our annual dinner, he says a corporate grace (he used to mention Jesus until he was reminded that we have Jewish members). Most of my immigrant ancestors arrived in Colonial times. They include members of groups that came specifically because of persecution for their religious beliefs -- in particular, Quakers and Puritans. One of my German immigrant ancestors was the grandson of a woman who was beheaded as a witch. I do count myself fortunate that I don't have to fear having my goods confiscated or being imprisoned or executed for my unbelief, but I find it ironic that the countries my ancestors left are now more hospitable to unbelievers than the "land of freedom" to which they fled. Magpie, I'm sorry that my original post wasn't clearer; as a professional writer, I strive to be clear above all, and this is a clear case where my discomfort with raising the subject got the best of me. In fact, I think my response was prompted by the same reaction you had to the thread. In my case, I did not wish to get involved in the debate about the appropriateness of calling for prayer (though I very much appreciated your long post on the topic), but I put my two cents in because I was encouraged to see people speaking out about not believing in the efficacy of prayer, whether or not it was appropriate. Far From Home: I am currently reading "The God Delusion" myself, mainly for the reassurance that I'm not alone in how I think, and I think that is the book's main value. However, I think "proselytizing" for any faith or lack thereof is inappropriate. I don't feel the need to try to destroy the faith of others; I just wish they did not feel the need for everyone else to believe as they do. A couple of personal incidents: When I was in college, my Lutheran roommate and I discussed religion, and I apparently was so persuasive that (quite without meaning to) I caused her to lose her faith. (I was relieved to hear, a few years later, that she had gotten it back.) Since then, I have tried to avoid being drawn into such discussions, but people can be very insistent about wanting to know "what I believe." I have learned the hard way that it is almost impossible to tell a person of faith that one is an atheist without having that person take offense and commence arguing for the existence of God and the value of religion. It seems there are no terms neutral or objective enough; the mere fact of being an atheist is enough to give offense in and of itself. I have to wonder why believers seem to feel so threatened by the idea that not everyone believes. On a lighter note: I went to a church-affiliated college (for the acadmics) and was required to take three religion courses in order to graduate. I did enjoy them and get a lot out them, but I was utterly amazed when one professor wrote a note on my term paper suggesting that I consider majoring in religion!!! On an even lighter note: When I was dealing with my mother's estate and trying to arrange for the sale of her (dilapidated and heavily mortgaged) house, some antiques dealers came by to see if there was anything of interest. As I walked one dealer out to her car, we were talking about the local real-estate market and whether the house would fetch even as much as the balance on the mortgage. She stopped in the driveway, looked heavenward, and began to pray loudly that I would be able to sell the house for a particular dollar amount! I burst into laughter before realizing that she was quite serious!
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Prayers etc needed for 'The Hobbit' movie
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mae govannen
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Apr 19 2007, 4:58am
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I will join you
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Rivendweller
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Apr 19 2007, 1:49pm
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Thank you for your answer so straight and simple :-) /
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 3:18am
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You are entirely welcome. :-)
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Rivendweller
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Apr 20 2007, 2:37pm
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I remember
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Apr 20 2007, 2:40pm
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I think there are a lot more important things in this world...
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diedye
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Apr 19 2007, 3:07pm
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Huh?
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Darkstone
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Apr 19 2007, 3:19pm
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Thank you. //
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Lossefalme
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Apr 19 2007, 3:45pm
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You said what I didn't want to say...
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Noneoftheabove
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Apr 20 2007, 3:38am
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Thank you for saying at least also
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 5:21am
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How do you know I'm not praying also for those things?...
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 5:13am
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You said very well something I had been thinking.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Apr 20 2007, 1:59pm
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Thank you for those nice, encouraging words.
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 4:26pm
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Dear God,
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'esquey
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Apr 19 2007, 3:17pm
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... and to all the other human beings who suffer horribly too
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 5:48am
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I guess one can feel blessed
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Magpie
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Apr 19 2007, 3:38pm
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It doesn't have to be either or, you know...
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 6:06am
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Well, mae...
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Magpie
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Apr 20 2007, 1:48pm
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Well
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Darkstone
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Apr 20 2007, 2:20pm
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On the other hand, i do pray for blessings
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Apr 20 2007, 2:46pm
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Well...
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Darkstone
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Apr 20 2007, 3:11pm
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I've had personal contact too:
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Apr 20 2007, 4:07pm
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*bow of respect*
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Darkstone
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Apr 20 2007, 4:12pm
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I'm speechless
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Ataahua
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Apr 21 2007, 1:56am
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Yep.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Apr 23 2007, 12:59pm
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*applauds*
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Stapper
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Apr 21 2007, 9:38am
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That's what I meant too with that proposal... /
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 3:48pm
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'I know nothing about you other than
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 3:39pm
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Well,
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Apr 19 2007, 5:11pm
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I confess
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Morwen
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Apr 19 2007, 5:39pm
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Aye...
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diedye
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Apr 19 2007, 6:57pm
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I didn't articulate it well, but that's where I'm coming from.
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Lossefalme
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Apr 19 2007, 7:06pm
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Well, that solution never occurred to me.
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Morwen
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Apr 19 2007, 7:17pm
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Mea culpa.
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Lossefalme
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Apr 19 2007, 5:51pm
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Agree absolutely
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Morwen
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Apr 19 2007, 6:14pm
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Well said. //
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Lossefalme
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Apr 19 2007, 6:23pm
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Thank you
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Apr 19 2007, 8:24pm
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Thank you, Aunt Dora
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Morwen
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Apr 19 2007, 8:31pm
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Having read that beautiful poem of yours
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 1:23pm
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Nobody died...
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diedye
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Apr 19 2007, 6:23pm
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Clarification...
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diedye
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Apr 19 2007, 7:04pm
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Luckily for us, God may take care of ALL the fish,
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 7:15am
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Well
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Darkstone
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Apr 19 2007, 7:34pm
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Good question...
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diedye
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Apr 19 2007, 7:58pm
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We can be hamburgers.
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Darkstone
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Apr 19 2007, 8:06pm
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LOL!... I appreciate the joke, although
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 8:54am
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What is that old addage about assuming?...
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diedye
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Apr 20 2007, 3:07pm
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I don't know much about English adages,
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 4:08pm
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P.S.: And as for my proposal,
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 4:16pm
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Well, that's just the spirit of what I'm talking about too!!!
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 8:05am
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Thank you for this warm-hearted comment! If
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 6:44am
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Aunt Dora Baggins you're great!
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Arwen_Undomiel
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Nov 11 2009, 10:52pm
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Good heavens, that was a long time ago!
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Nov 11 2009, 11:01pm
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Well, here's another.
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N.E. Brigand
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Nov 15 2009, 5:18am
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That's amazing!
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Nov 15 2009, 3:33pm
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I'm so glad you took the time
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grammaboodawg
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Apr 19 2019, 1:20pm
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My indoctrination into atheism...sorry...Atheism
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DownfallenWest
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Apr 20 2007, 6:51am
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Sorry, didn't get your point:
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 9:20am
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Sorry!
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DownfallenWest
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Apr 22 2007, 8:22am
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Thank you for this nice and very helpful answer! :-)
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mae govannen
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Apr 22 2007, 5:42pm
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Well it would be half the number...
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Meliana
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Apr 20 2007, 12:52pm
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For real?
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Aerin
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Apr 20 2007, 6:09pm
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That's a biiiig closet!//
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Apr 20 2007, 6:25pm
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Yes, it is,
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Aerin
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Apr 20 2007, 9:01pm
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I'm reminded of my father
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Apr 20 2007, 9:07pm
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LOL!... Great saying!!! :-D
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mae govannen
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Apr 21 2007, 4:36am
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I just thouht it was funny that you were categorizing
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Apr 20 2007, 9:11pm
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I knew what you meant...
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Aerin
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Apr 21 2007, 2:41am
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Hear, hear, non-theists!... :-)
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mae govannen
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Apr 21 2007, 4:32am
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Thanks for your kind words.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Apr 21 2007, 6:25pm
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Rambling on in general.....
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DownfallenWest
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Apr 22 2007, 9:03am
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My mother had the same concern...
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Aerin
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Apr 22 2007, 7:51pm
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Replies on several fronts
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Apr 23 2007, 1:11pm
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Hah!
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Darkstone
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Apr 23 2007, 1:59pm
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That's a great point!
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Aerin
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Apr 24 2007, 3:28am
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*hugging Aunt Dora in a close embrace*
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mae govannen
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Apr 21 2007, 5:29am
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blinks a few times.
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Magpie
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Apr 21 2007, 6:13am
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It takes a lot of nerve
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Aerin
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Apr 21 2007, 6:57am
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My eyes have been opened a bit recently
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FarFromHome
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Apr 21 2007, 9:24am
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I didn't know
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Stapper
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Apr 21 2007, 9:59am
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Dunno.
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Darkstone
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Apr 23 2007, 2:19pm
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I think it's both.
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Aerin
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Apr 24 2007, 3:37am
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Thanks for clarifying
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Magpie
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Apr 21 2007, 2:03pm
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Thanks, FFH, Stapper, and Magpie.
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Aerin
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Apr 21 2007, 5:19pm
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Depends.
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DownfallenWest
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Apr 22 2007, 8:35am
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Interesting
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Radhruin
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Apr 23 2007, 8:07am
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It is amazing.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Apr 23 2007, 1:18pm
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I think it says a lot
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Aerin
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Apr 24 2007, 3:39am
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I think you're right (nt)
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Radhruin
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Apr 24 2007, 4:42pm
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Hey, I like your footer quotation! /
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Aerin
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Apr 24 2007, 11:22pm
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Well, Aerin said it before me!... But
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mae govannen
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Apr 29 2007, 6:46am
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To all: please read my first answer to diedye,
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mae govannen
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Apr 20 2007, 9:35am
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Have been and will continue to :)
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grammaboodawg
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Apr 27 2007, 2:16pm
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Hugs to you too, dear gramma!... And
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mae govannen
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Apr 29 2007, 7:30am
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guess it worked //
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Annael
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Dec 31 2014, 9:12pm
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Oh my!!! This is bringing tears in my eyes!...
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mae govannen
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Jan 1 2015, 7:48am
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This has got to be a record for number of years spanned by one thread!
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Jan 4 2015, 2:21pm
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You're probably right about the record!
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mae govannen
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Jan 4 2015, 2:54pm
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