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Dreamdeer
Valinor
Apr 20 2009, 9:46pm
Views: 1134
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Regarding orcs, I fear that you're going to wince at this, too, but Shagrat's concerns to keep Frodo out of Grishnak's clutches "when you're mad for fun" did not speak to me of honorable intentions on Grishnak's part. The rape of prisoners was a well-known tactic in WWI for breaking them down, particularly as used by Turks against Allies. Lawrence of Arabia received quite a bit of press when it came out that he had been raped in captivity. Vikings also routinely raped prisoners, and did not consider it a homosexual act if perpetrated on a captive. And the commonness of this practice against prisoners during the Crusades is the reason that shouting a certain four-letter verb followed by "you!" has come down to us as a curse rather than a blessing. Tolkien would never state anything so distasteful out loud in bald print, but he knew about such things, and might have subtly alluded to this sort of abuse as a danger, at least, in the tower of Cirith Ungol.
On a brighter note, I respectfully and hesitantly disagree about Gimli. I think that Gimli's love for Galadriel shows all the earmarks of Courtly Love, which is often simultaneously lustful and chaste. It shines with a certain poignancy, unrequitable, sweetly melancholy, a virtuous and self-controlled yearning from a creature with too few females of his own kind, suddenly encountering sympathy in this magnificently androgenous elven female (androgeny being important to a dwarf, to whom too much gender distinction might seem grotesque) and yet knowing her not only alien in kind but married as well, and far beyond his reach in so many ways. And though she does not reciprocate in desire, Galadriel seems flattered, and honors him above the lovesick Celebrimbor, and delights in becoming his inspiration, his saint, his partner in almost-taboo boldness, his Lady in Domnei, giving him a lady's favor to carry with him always.
But you're absolutely right, not all love is lustful. I do not see the same need for wistful self-control in Sam towards Frodo. Otherwise Frodo, Sam, and Rose all living together in Bag End would have become unbearably fraught with tension!
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Tolkien 2009 in Vermont – a report
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N.E. Brigand
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Apr 19 2009, 5:58am
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Thoughts.
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Curious
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Apr 19 2009, 10:51pm
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Just a few thoughts.
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Dreamdeer
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Apr 20 2009, 1:02am
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A few answers, some to the point
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sador
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Apr 20 2009, 10:14am
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FFH it was!
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N.E. Brigand
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Apr 20 2009, 10:31pm
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Woah!
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FarFromHome
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Apr 21 2009, 8:57am
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A few answers (second installment)
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sador
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Apr 20 2009, 1:32pm
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Quack, quack ...
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visualweasel
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Apr 20 2009, 5:45pm
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Yes, Gríma too, good catch. And how about lust for the Ring? Or other lusts?
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Curious
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Apr 20 2009, 5:56pm
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Onward turning...
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Dreamdeer
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Apr 20 2009, 9:46pm
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Tolkien had a higher regard for
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Curious
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Apr 20 2009, 10:58pm
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True, but ...
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visualweasel
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Apr 21 2009, 1:56pm
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We don't get to know Arwen.
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Curious
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Apr 21 2009, 2:45pm
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Ring Writhes
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Dreamdeer
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Apr 20 2009, 9:49pm
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Those who argue that are, of course, wrong
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Apr 20 2009, 10:54pm
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Blushing in the metaphorical dark, I'll give a lame answer (or two)
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squire
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Apr 20 2009, 11:08pm
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I would love to hear Ian McKellen read that passage! It reminds me
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Curious
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Apr 21 2009, 5:43am
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What a great clip!
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visualweasel
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Apr 21 2009, 1:52pm
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**stands up straight, salutes NEB..**.
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weaver
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Apr 21 2009, 6:06am
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Ah, Springtime in Vermont
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dernwyn
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Apr 22 2009, 12:42am
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Duck lollipop
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Curious
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Apr 22 2009, 1:46am
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Quack!
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dernwyn
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Apr 22 2009, 2:11am
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More than UUT
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Dreamdeer
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Apr 22 2009, 3:44am
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Yes, we did.
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Eowyn of Penns Woods
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Apr 22 2009, 4:18am
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You did already
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sador
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Apr 22 2009, 6:38am
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When exactly did the wind change?
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Curious
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Apr 22 2009, 3:25pm
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Thank you for the generous summary! //
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Dreamdeer
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Apr 23 2009, 7:17pm
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I think there may be some magic
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FarFromHome
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Apr 22 2009, 4:23pm
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Almost OT
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Luthien Rising
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Apr 22 2009, 9:24pm
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I feel like I had been there myself!
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Modtheow
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May 7 2009, 12:10am
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Nice to see you around the place!
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squire
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May 7 2009, 1:07am
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feels like home
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Modtheow
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May 7 2009, 1:30am
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Guten Tag! Sally, baby, here she comes!
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squire
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May 7 2009, 5:43am
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It's all true! //
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Modtheow
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May 10 2009, 12:56am
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welcome back!
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weaver
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May 7 2009, 1:37am
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I will definitely try to go next year //
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Modtheow
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May 10 2009, 12:58am
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*Peers around WMU's computer lab*
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N.E. Brigand
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May 7 2009, 9:16pm
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