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sador
Half-elven
Apr 20 2009, 10:14am
Views: 1185
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A few answers, some to the point
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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First and foremost - thank you!
I'll just answer some of your questions.
why does Tolkien, when referring to the story of Beren and Lúthien in LOTR, downplay that tale’s happy aspects? And what does this say of his views on the uses of tragedy? What do you think? I think Curious is right here. Tolkien does not downplay the happy aspects, and for mortals (Aragorn, Sam in 'the Stairs of Cirith Ungol') this tale is a source of inspiration and hope.
But indeed, "she was lost to those who loved her" - as Arwen was.
Along the way, she identified two parallels between LOTR and The Silmarillion that I don’t think I’ve seen addressed before, first between “The Council of Elrond” and “Of Beren and Lúthien”, and second between “The Choices of Master Samwise” and “Of Túrin Turambar”. Do you see any connections there? Whoa, some riddle!
The second one could be between Sam's despair at all his choices having gone ill, and Turin's words before commiting suicide that all his deeds have gone ill, and the last the most (probably meaning the slaying of Brandir); Sam's falling into a dark swoon could also recall Turin's staying crazed by Beleg's body, and Gorbag's words about the big elf-fighter thinking the small one worth little are similar to Glaurung's taunts at Nargothrond. But I'm not sure.
The first parallel is even more difficult - I would suggest the poem describing Sauron's words of power and their effect on Finrod, and the effect of the Black Speech words Gandalf utters at the Council.
As a matter of fact, Sauron's overlooking Beren and deeming him unimportant is parallel to his overlooking Boromir (as Gandalf said), although with Boromir it seems Sauron is more justified (of course, if we accept Darkstone's theory Sauron sent the dream, then Gandalf is plain wrong) - but more importantly, Thrain's map, and of course Frodo and Sam later in the war.
His paper considered alternatives to the usual gender roles in The Silmarillion. Can you think of some examples? Olsen concluded that Tolkien’s portrayal of gender actually subverts expectations. Oh no... I wouldn't have enjoyed this talk had I been there! People seem to take a particular pleasure in discussing gender roles, and finding subtle hints to prove such theories!
I hope it is not again about Luthien.
As a matter of fact, we have other cases of females (should I call female elves 'women'?) behaving differently from their gender-role - both Aredhel and Nienor do so; arguably, they are both punished severely for their transgressions.
One of the longest comments that Vaccaro reported, with approval, was this one written in a non-scholarly setting – can you guess who the author is?
FarFromHome?
I'm pretty sure it's from the old site, by your question (and I've searched the new site and haven't found it, so if you got the quote right it ism't here) - and from the regular posters in the RR, it sounds like her.
"Praps ye sits here and chats with it a bitsy, my preciousss" - Gollum
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Tolkien 2009 in Vermont – a report
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N.E. Brigand
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Apr 19 2009, 5:58am
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Thoughts.
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Curious
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Apr 19 2009, 10:51pm
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Just a few thoughts.
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Dreamdeer
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Apr 20 2009, 1:02am
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A few answers, some to the point
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sador
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Apr 20 2009, 10:14am
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FFH it was!
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N.E. Brigand
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Apr 20 2009, 10:31pm
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Woah!
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FarFromHome
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Apr 21 2009, 8:57am
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A few answers (second installment)
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sador
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Apr 20 2009, 1:32pm
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Quack, quack ...
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visualweasel
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Apr 20 2009, 5:45pm
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Yes, Gríma too, good catch. And how about lust for the Ring? Or other lusts?
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Curious
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Apr 20 2009, 5:56pm
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Onward turning...
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Dreamdeer
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Apr 20 2009, 9:46pm
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Tolkien had a higher regard for
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Curious
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Apr 20 2009, 10:58pm
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True, but ...
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visualweasel
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Apr 21 2009, 1:56pm
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We don't get to know Arwen.
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Curious
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Apr 21 2009, 2:45pm
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Ring Writhes
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Dreamdeer
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Apr 20 2009, 9:49pm
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Those who argue that are, of course, wrong
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Apr 20 2009, 10:54pm
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Blushing in the metaphorical dark, I'll give a lame answer (or two)
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squire
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Apr 20 2009, 11:08pm
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I would love to hear Ian McKellen read that passage! It reminds me
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Curious
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Apr 21 2009, 5:43am
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What a great clip!
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visualweasel
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Apr 21 2009, 1:52pm
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**stands up straight, salutes NEB..**.
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weaver
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Apr 21 2009, 6:06am
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Ah, Springtime in Vermont
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dernwyn
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Apr 22 2009, 12:42am
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Duck lollipop
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Curious
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Apr 22 2009, 1:46am
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Quack!
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dernwyn
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Apr 22 2009, 2:11am
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More than UUT
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Dreamdeer
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Apr 22 2009, 3:44am
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Yes, we did.
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Eowyn of Penns Woods
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Apr 22 2009, 4:18am
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You did already
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sador
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Apr 22 2009, 6:38am
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When exactly did the wind change?
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Curious
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Apr 22 2009, 3:25pm
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Thank you for the generous summary! //
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Dreamdeer
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Apr 23 2009, 7:17pm
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I think there may be some magic
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FarFromHome
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Apr 22 2009, 4:23pm
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Almost OT
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Luthien Rising
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Apr 22 2009, 9:24pm
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I feel like I had been there myself!
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Modtheow
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May 7 2009, 12:10am
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Nice to see you around the place!
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squire
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May 7 2009, 1:07am
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feels like home
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Modtheow
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May 7 2009, 1:30am
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Guten Tag! Sally, baby, here she comes!
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squire
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May 7 2009, 5:43am
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It's all true! //
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Modtheow
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May 10 2009, 12:56am
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welcome back!
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weaver
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May 7 2009, 1:37am
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I will definitely try to go next year //
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Modtheow
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May 10 2009, 12:58am
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*Peers around WMU's computer lab*
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N.E. Brigand
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May 7 2009, 9:16pm
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