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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
A few answers, some to the point

sador
Valinor

Apr 20 2009, 10:14am


Views: 377
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A few answers, some to the point [In reply to] Can't Post

First and foremost - thank you!
I'll just answer some of your questions.


Quote

why does Tolkien, when referring to the story of Beren and Lúthien in LOTR, downplay that tale’s happy aspects? And what does this say of his views on the uses of tragedy? What do you think?

I think Curious is right here. Tolkien does not downplay the happy aspects, and for mortals (Aragorn, Sam in 'the Stairs of Cirith Ungol') this tale is a source of inspiration and hope.
But indeed, "she was lost to those who loved her" - as Arwen was.


Quote

Along the way, she identified two parallels between LOTR and The Silmarillion that I don’t think I’ve seen addressed before, first between “The Council of Elrond” and “Of Beren and Lúthien”, and second between “The Choices of Master Samwise” and “Of Túrin Turambar”. Do you see any connections there?

Whoa, some riddle!
The second one could be between Sam's despair at all his choices having gone ill, and Turin's words before commiting suicide that all his deeds have gone ill, and the last the most (probably meaning the slaying of Brandir); Sam's falling into a dark swoon could also recall Turin's staying crazed by Beleg's body, and Gorbag's words about the big elf-fighter thinking the small one worth little are similar to Glaurung's taunts at Nargothrond. But I'm not sure.

The first parallel is even more difficult - I would suggest the poem describing Sauron's words of power and their effect on Finrod, and the effect of the Black Speech words Gandalf utters at the Council.
As a matter of fact, Sauron's overlooking Beren and deeming him unimportant is parallel to his overlooking Boromir (as Gandalf said), although with Boromir it seems Sauron is more justified (of course, if we accept Darkstone's theory Sauron sent the dream, then Gandalf is plain wrong) - but more importantly, Thrain's map, and of course Frodo and Sam later in the war.


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His paper considered alternatives to the usual gender roles in The Silmarillion. Can you think of some examples? Olsen concluded that Tolkien’s portrayal of gender actually subverts expectations.

Oh no... I wouldn't have enjoyed this talk had I been there! People seem to take a particular pleasure in discussing gender roles, and finding subtle hints to prove such theories!
I hope it is not again about Luthien.
As a matter of fact, we have other cases of females (should I call female elves 'women'?) behaving differently from their gender-role - both Aredhel and Nienor do so; arguably, they are both punished severely for their transgressions.


Quote
One of the longest comments that Vaccaro reported, with approval, was this one written in a non-scholarly setting – can you guess who the author is?


FarFromHome?
I'm pretty sure it's from the old site, by your question (and I've searched the new site and haven't found it, so if you got the quote right it ism't here) - and from the regular posters in the RR, it sounds like her.




"Praps ye sits here and chats with it a bitsy, my preciousss" - Gollum

Subject User Time
Tolkien 2009 in Vermont – a report N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Apr 19 2009, 5:58am
    Thoughts. Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 19 2009, 10:51pm
    Just a few thoughts. Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Apr 20 2009, 1:02am
    A few answers, some to the point sador Send a private message to sador Apr 20 2009, 10:14am
        FFH it was! N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Apr 20 2009, 10:31pm
            Woah! FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 21 2009, 8:57am
    A few answers (second installment) sador Send a private message to sador Apr 20 2009, 1:32pm
    Quack, quack ... visualweasel Send a private message to visualweasel Apr 20 2009, 5:45pm
        Yes, Gríma too, good catch. And how about lust for the Ring? Or other lusts? Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 20 2009, 5:56pm
            Onward turning... Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Apr 20 2009, 9:46pm
                Tolkien had a higher regard for Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 20 2009, 10:58pm
                    True, but ... visualweasel Send a private message to visualweasel Apr 21 2009, 1:56pm
                        We don't get to know Arwen. Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 21 2009, 2:45pm
            Ring Writhes Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Apr 20 2009, 9:49pm
        Those who argue that are, of course, wrong Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful Apr 20 2009, 10:54pm
    Blushing in the metaphorical dark, I'll give a lame answer (or two) squire Send a private message to squire Apr 20 2009, 11:08pm
        I would love to hear Ian McKellen read that passage! It reminds me Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 21 2009, 5:43am
            What a great clip! visualweasel Send a private message to visualweasel Apr 21 2009, 1:52pm
    **stands up straight, salutes NEB..**. weaver Send a private message to weaver Apr 21 2009, 6:06am
    Ah, Springtime in Vermont dernwyn Send a private message to dernwyn Apr 22 2009, 12:42am
        Duck lollipop Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 22 2009, 1:46am
            Quack! dernwyn Send a private message to dernwyn Apr 22 2009, 2:11am
        More than UUT Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Apr 22 2009, 3:44am
            Yes, we did. Eowyn of Penns Woods Send a private message to Eowyn of Penns Woods Apr 22 2009, 4:18am
            You did already sador Send a private message to sador Apr 22 2009, 6:38am
            When exactly did the wind change? Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 22 2009, 3:25pm
                Thank you for the generous summary! // Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Apr 23 2009, 7:17pm
            I think there may be some magic FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 22 2009, 4:23pm
    Almost OT Luthien Rising Send a private message to Luthien Rising Apr 22 2009, 9:24pm
    I feel like I had been there myself! Modtheow Send a private message to Modtheow May 7 2009, 12:10am
        Nice to see you around the place! squire Send a private message to squire May 7 2009, 1:07am
            feels like home Modtheow Send a private message to Modtheow May 7 2009, 1:30am
                Guten Tag! Sally, baby, here she comes! squire Send a private message to squire May 7 2009, 5:43am
                    It's all true! // Modtheow Send a private message to Modtheow May 10 2009, 12:56am
        welcome back! weaver Send a private message to weaver May 7 2009, 1:37am
            I will definitely try to go next year // Modtheow Send a private message to Modtheow May 10 2009, 12:58am
        *Peers around WMU's computer lab* N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand May 7 2009, 9:16pm

 
 
 

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