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Curious
Half-elven
Mar 14 2009, 6:47am
Views: 2465
Shortcut
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But I hope I'm not "anxious to prove, without any shadow of a doubt, that [I am] right and the newbie is wrong" or "beat them over their heads with how un-enlightened and unread they are." That sounds awful, and nothing like the Reading Room I know and love. That said, unlike Aunt Dora and entmaiden, I *have* seen rudeness and bullying here in the RR. Inferno, one of the founders of this very board, mentioned an instance on the Feedback board. It was one of the rudest comments I've ever seen on the boards, and (understandably) I doubt she's been back since. And, (memories are seemingly short here) while that poster is no longer here, a large number of people (many of whom are still here) protested, even vilified me, when I deleted that reply. That experience was the beginning of my own exodus from this board.
I find this example frustrating because I have no idea what you are talking about. Still, as an admin I'm sure you seen the worst of it, since that is what admins should focus on and address. I have not, or if I did I've blocked it out. I think it is far more likely, however, that a newcomer's theory will be challenged, politely and reasonably, but that some newcomers don't like to argue. Many people don't like to argue, and that's fine, but other people do like a well-reasoned give and take, and find it enlightening. What makes the Reading Room intimidating to some is precisely what makes it attractive to others. In the immortal words of Monty Python: M: An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. A: No it isn't. M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction. A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position. M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.' A: Yes it is! M: No it isn't! A: Yes it is! M: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes. I like reasoned, intellectual argument. I try to stay away from mere contradiction, but in order to argue as an intellectual process, I must take up a contrary position. If people don't like that, tell me! I'll apologize and drop it. The other thing I've noticed is that many lurkers are afraid of saying somethig someone else already said, or seems likely to say, and perhaps to say better. The key is not to look at what anyone else says before you answer. I don't care if you've said the same thing as everyone else. The process of thinking through your own answer is, I judge, highly valuable. And often the differences between the answers is enlightening. And finally, many people just don't have the time or interest to keep up with the pace of the Reading Room, which unlike the other boards is a sort of neverending conversation about Tolkien's books. There's a treadmill quality to it, sometimes slower, sometimes faster, but never stopping, and some people, I judge, just don't want to answer all those questions posed by the discussion leaders. They fall behind, judge that they will never catch up, and leave the board for some other venue. And people who already are intimidated by the ongoing conversations are unlikely to start a new thread of their own. They are far too afraid of embarassing themselves.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Reading Room Culture
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 13 2009, 5:57pm
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I would love to discuss it.
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Curious
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Mar 13 2009, 6:33pm
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That's an issue which probably should've been addressed long ago.
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Eowyn of Penns Woods
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Mar 13 2009, 8:10pm
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RE: "I would love to discuss it."
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 13 2009, 8:20pm
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However
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Tolkien Forever
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Mar 13 2009, 7:01pm
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More is better.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Mar 13 2009, 8:08pm
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What she said, everyone read this!
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a.s.
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Mar 13 2009, 10:14pm
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Well said!
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 14 2009, 8:32am
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Aww...
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dernwyn
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Mar 14 2009, 10:13pm
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It was going to be a long epic...
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squire
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Mar 15 2009, 3:16am
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"Out of the bedlam,
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dernwyn
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Mar 15 2009, 3:48am
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"rising gorge" is just how I would describe
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a.s.
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Mar 15 2009, 4:02am
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LOL!
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dernwyn
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Mar 15 2009, 12:30pm
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Yeah, it will be just gorgeous //
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sador
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Mar 15 2009, 12:43pm
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Admittedly
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 13 2009, 8:20pm
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This is me...
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cloudland
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Mar 14 2009, 12:04am
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Not so long
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 14 2009, 8:41am
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O, you finally got to Tol Eressea
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sador
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Mar 15 2009, 9:36am
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*stalks up on sador*
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Kelvarhin
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Mar 15 2009, 9:45am
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Thanks, Sador! We're already celebrating our reunion
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 15 2009, 9:56am
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*looks around*
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Kelvarhin
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Mar 15 2009, 10:12am
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keep on reading...
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batik
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Mar 13 2009, 9:00pm
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It's all about cookies.
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Darkstone
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Mar 13 2009, 9:27pm
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I dunno, I've eaten my share of cookies in here.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Mar 13 2009, 9:39pm
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Oh, yes!
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Darkstone
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Mar 13 2009, 10:56pm
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nonsense, I have cookies:
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a.s.
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Mar 13 2009, 11:11pm
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Mmmmm!
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Mar 13 2009, 11:27pm
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Cookie-rating
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 13 2009, 11:43pm
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But...but...
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Eowyn of Penns Woods
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Mar 14 2009, 12:15am
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Lost
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Tolkien Forever
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Mar 14 2009, 12:41am
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Post #9
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 14 2009, 2:05am
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OH
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Tolkien Forever
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Mar 14 2009, 4:24am
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Something different
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 14 2009, 5:26am
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An easy example is when you log into TORn
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Mar 14 2009, 1:43pm
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Wish I had NEB's skillz at searching posts,
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Mar 13 2009, 11:50pm
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Wow!
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Darkstone
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Mar 13 2009, 11:59pm
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Well,
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Mar 14 2009, 1:29am
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Looking back at this little subthread the next day, I'm ashamed
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Mar 14 2009, 2:31pm
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And why is that a source of shame?
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Curious
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Mar 14 2009, 2:39pm
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I love you, Curious.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Mar 14 2009, 3:16pm
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One of the fun things about Tolkien
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Elizabeth
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Mar 14 2009, 8:09pm
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Lurker
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Farawyn
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Mar 14 2009, 1:43am
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Maybe it's just me
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entmaiden
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Mar 14 2009, 2:02am
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What I'm Doing
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 14 2009, 2:13am
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Sorry - I realize
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entmaiden
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Mar 14 2009, 2:17am
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I'm reading...
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simplyaven
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Mar 14 2009, 3:24am
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This is the kind of comment, exactly, that has me cowering under the lurker bench. //
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Arwen's daughter
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Mar 14 2009, 3:41am
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Agree! //
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simplyaven
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Mar 14 2009, 3:43am
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I think
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entmaiden
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Mar 14 2009, 4:02am
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I'm not waiting but imagine...
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simplyaven
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Mar 15 2009, 10:33pm
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I don't expect
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 14 2009, 9:01am
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A small reminiscence...
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Elizabeth
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Mar 14 2009, 10:16am
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Sounds familiar ;)
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 14 2009, 12:38pm
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Of course!
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Elizabeth
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Mar 14 2009, 7:41pm
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Of course I want the answer!
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 14 2009, 8:11pm
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I want to learn
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 15 2009, 12:54am
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Newbies
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 14 2009, 5:38pm
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This post by Simplyaven
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GaladrielTX
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Mar 14 2009, 4:35pm
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I guess what I mean is
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entmaiden
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Mar 14 2009, 8:31pm
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That's the way I see it.
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GaladrielTX
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Mar 14 2009, 9:18pm
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Change is relative
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 15 2009, 1:08am
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Except that
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Silverlode
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Mar 14 2009, 8:31pm
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That makes a lot of sense
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 14 2009, 8:38pm
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Thank you!
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Silverlode
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Mar 14 2009, 9:07pm
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"Admins do not generally feel justified in requiring people to post to our preferences"
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GaladrielTX
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Mar 14 2009, 9:33pm
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Rules versus culture
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 15 2009, 1:16am
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For love of the books
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Altaira
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Mar 14 2009, 3:59am
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Scholarship
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 14 2009, 5:20am
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I do challenge theories.
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Curious
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Mar 14 2009, 6:47am
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So do I.
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N.E. Brigand
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Mar 14 2009, 7:08am
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I would like to say it's evident, but evidently, it' s not
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a.s.
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Mar 14 2009, 12:05pm
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Another problem
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 14 2009, 12:59pm
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To answer in RR style.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Mar 14 2009, 2:08pm
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I'll try!
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 14 2009, 9:27pm
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Bravo!
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 15 2009, 1:11am
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Thank you!
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 15 2009, 6:31am
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Oh, how well I know what you're saying!
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simplyaven
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Mar 14 2009, 3:26pm
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Oh wow!
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 14 2009, 5:39pm
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*Mods way, way, way up!*
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Mar 14 2009, 2:03pm
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I wish people would say when they are getting frustrated.
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Curious
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Mar 14 2009, 2:26pm
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Curious, my brother, with love and affection and the highest regards: you miss my point
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a.s.
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Mar 14 2009, 2:54pm
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What, then, shall we do?
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Curious
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Mar 14 2009, 3:26pm
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I am sorry that you are frustrated
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a.s.
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Mar 14 2009, 3:41pm
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tone
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Magpie
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Mar 14 2009, 3:07pm
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That's exactly what happens and the fact there is an argument going on is proving it
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simplyaven
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Mar 14 2009, 3:35pm
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You hit the nail on the head!
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 14 2009, 5:55pm
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Well said!
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 14 2009, 6:38pm
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Thanks, a.s.
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Altaira
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Mar 14 2009, 11:16pm
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It all depends
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 14 2009, 5:34pm
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Excellent suggestion!
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Mar 14 2009, 1:48pm
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Very true!
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simplyaven
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Mar 14 2009, 3:15pm
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"I thought N.E. Brigand was intimidating."
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N.E. Brigand
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Mar 14 2009, 6:48am
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I'm not sure how to take
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Curious
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Mar 14 2009, 6:54am
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That is one of the very funniest posts I've ever seen on TORn
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Mar 14 2009, 1:40pm
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Hey!
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squire
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Mar 14 2009, 2:25pm
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ROTFL! //
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 14 2009, 5:05pm
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(Smacking his head). I nearly missed that one!
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sador
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Mar 16 2009, 2:46pm
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A perfect response!//
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Curious
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Mar 16 2009, 2:52pm
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You can't intimidate me.
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Silverlode
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Mar 14 2009, 10:42am
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Thank you Silverlode
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Kelvarhin
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Mar 14 2009, 11:06am
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would not even try!
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a.s.
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Mar 14 2009, 11:39am
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What she said.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Mar 14 2009, 2:15pm
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That's not what I meant
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Silverlode
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Mar 14 2009, 7:58pm
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oh...DOG TREATS!!
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a.s.
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Mar 14 2009, 10:34pm
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Oddly enough,
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Silverlode
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Mar 14 2009, 11:10pm
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I agree with your suggestion.
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Curious
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Mar 14 2009, 2:51pm
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I was using
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Silverlode
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Mar 14 2009, 7:47pm
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Suddenly, this popped up in my head...
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Eowyn of Penns Woods
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Mar 14 2009, 8:24pm
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Why folks suffer in silence
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 15 2009, 12:59am
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Yes!
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 15 2009, 6:41am
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That's exactly how I would put it
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Magpie
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Mar 14 2009, 3:22pm
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Great post! //
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simplyaven
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Mar 14 2009, 3:23pm
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Very important point!
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 14 2009, 5:44pm
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Yes!!
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 14 2009, 6:44pm
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I've only read half this thread...
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Magpie
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Mar 14 2009, 2:46pm
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Checking it out is doubly important on the internet, because
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Curious
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Mar 14 2009, 3:15pm
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Classist
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simplyaven
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Mar 14 2009, 3:20pm
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everyone should feel COMFORTABLE, but everyone will not ENJOY
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a.s.
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Mar 14 2009, 3:30pm
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Thanks, you spoke for me pretty well.//
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Curious
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Mar 14 2009, 3:32pm
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When everyone start feeling comfortable...
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simplyaven
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Mar 14 2009, 3:38pm
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Yes, and we can hear them loud and clear
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a.s.
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Mar 14 2009, 3:51pm
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I know
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simplyaven
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Mar 14 2009, 3:58pm
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Only because of time constraints
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sador
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Mar 14 2009, 8:22pm
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Who hugs in the Reading Room?
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N.E. Brigand
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Mar 14 2009, 9:33pm
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hugs?? I'm on the case. //
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a.s.
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Mar 14 2009, 10:47pm
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"Thinking hard or hardly thinking?"
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sador
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Mar 15 2009, 7:02am
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I obviously have *not* read all the posts, have I?
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a.s.
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Mar 14 2009, 11:15pm
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And I want to say
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 15 2009, 6:48am
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Both earlier this thread, and in the one in Feedback
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sador
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Mar 15 2009, 8:07am
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I don't see anything wrong with your posts.
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Elizabeth
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Mar 15 2009, 8:42am
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yep
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Darkstone
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Mar 17 2009, 5:33pm
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I expressed myself at the time.
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Curious
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Mar 15 2009, 9:00am
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my take
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a.s.
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Mar 15 2009, 2:26pm
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quoting myself:
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Magpie
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Mar 15 2009, 2:44pm
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Thank you!
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sador
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Mar 15 2009, 3:07pm
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I like the word opulence
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Magpie
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Mar 15 2009, 4:07pm
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4%
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 15 2009, 10:19pm
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Wanted to address a couple of your questions
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entmaiden
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Mar 15 2009, 4:28pm
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If you want specific suggestions...
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Elizabeth
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Mar 15 2009, 6:30pm
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The quest for blank lines
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 15 2009, 10:26pm
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The biggest culprit for this is...
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Magpie
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Mar 16 2009, 1:16am
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Answering Quotes
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 16 2009, 1:20am
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probably a better way, but
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a.s.
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Mar 16 2009, 2:07am
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I'll PM you with pointers. /
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Ataahua
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Mar 16 2009, 2:26am
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Thank you all very much!
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 16 2009, 4:28am
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Stick with the basic editor.
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Elizabeth
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Mar 16 2009, 3:23am
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This previous debate of ours was brought to the attention of TORNsibs by me
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simplyaven
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Mar 15 2009, 8:14pm
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Is 'Smith' squire's surname?
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sador
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Mar 16 2009, 3:18pm
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I've read little of Henry James, but
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Curious
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Mar 16 2009, 5:10pm
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Comma Queen, here.
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 16 2009, 6:25pm
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Neither squire's nor simplyaven's
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simplyaven
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Mar 16 2009, 8:14pm
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Are quotes really bad?
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Elizabeth
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Mar 16 2009, 9:00pm
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No.
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simplyaven
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Mar 17 2009, 1:00pm
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What are we to do now?
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 17 2009, 7:49am
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Sure!
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Elizabeth
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Mar 17 2009, 7:58am
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Yes
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 17 2009, 8:30am
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We used to have a lot more
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entmaiden
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Mar 17 2009, 1:22pm
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Thanks, a.s. //
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N.E. Brigand
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Mar 15 2009, 3:45pm
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Of course, you're right, thank you!
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simplyaven
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Mar 15 2009, 8:05pm
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The thing is, discussion leaders vary a lot.
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Elizabeth
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Mar 16 2009, 3:39am
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Right. We all agree it's a two way street :) //
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simplyaven
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Mar 16 2009, 8:16pm
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Honestly
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 15 2009, 10:12pm
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Nothing wrong that I can see.
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 15 2009, 9:45pm
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Ummm...
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 15 2009, 1:04am
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Welcome, but not necessarily comfortable
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Mar 14 2009, 4:44pm
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Cookies? Hugs?
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Morthoron
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Mar 14 2009, 11:28pm
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*slowly creeps into the room*
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Morrowdim
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Mar 16 2009, 10:49pm
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Thank you for contributing all you can! //
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 17 2009, 3:27am
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Drop in participation
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 17 2009, 3:45am
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Take care, Dreamdeer. //
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N.E. Brigand
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Mar 17 2009, 3:53am
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I'm sorry to hear that
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Mar 17 2009, 4:31am
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Nice to let us know!
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Peredhil lover
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Mar 17 2009, 6:12am
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Thanks for letting us know
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Kelvarhin
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Mar 17 2009, 6:16am
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Heartfelt wishes for her speedy recovery \\
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sador
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Mar 17 2009, 6:50am
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Courage...
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Elizabeth
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Mar 17 2009, 8:35am
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Best wishes to your grandma, Dreamdeer! //
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simplyaven
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Mar 17 2009, 1:01pm
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Oh, gosh...
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dernwyn
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Mar 17 2009, 3:20pm
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Coming late to this thread...
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Idril Celebrindal
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Mar 19 2009, 9:38pm
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