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Tolkien Forever
Gondor
Feb 26 2009, 4:28am
Views: 2324
Shortcut
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I get the gist of it already.... To quote NEB: Would it irk you..... ...if on the basis of his fiction an author were accused of tolerance?
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Subject
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User
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Time
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The Tale of Years (Appendix B): Part I – The 2nd Age, 1 -1600
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Morthoron
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Feb 23 2009, 6:42am
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My thoughts
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Dreamdeer
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Feb 23 2009, 5:04pm
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Drawing the line
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squire
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Feb 23 2009, 10:34pm
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Suddenly *I'm* the one looking for errors?
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Dreamdeer
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Feb 24 2009, 3:48pm
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I have no desire to be creamed like the Spanish, or anyone else.
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squire
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Feb 25 2009, 12:24am
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Mordor
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Tolkien Forever
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Feb 25 2009, 12:42am
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Excellent points!
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Dreamdeer
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Feb 25 2009, 12:47am
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real world boxy mountains
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hanne
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Feb 24 2009, 4:17pm
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I'm always a bit surprised
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Feb 25 2009, 5:36pm
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The best I could come up with
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Eowyn of Penns Woods
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Mar 15 2009, 9:15pm
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"...any historical value it may possess must always be of secondary importance."
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Darkstone
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Feb 23 2009, 6:24pm
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ANOTHR Wiped Out Post!
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Tolkien Forever
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Feb 23 2009, 7:51pm
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Thoughts.
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Curious
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Feb 23 2009, 10:42pm
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Hey, darken down! Stop having fun! Take this more seriously!
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squire
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Feb 23 2009, 11:01pm
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Perhaps I am sensitive about the Reading Room's
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Curious
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Feb 24 2009, 1:49am
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In addition...
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Morthoron
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Feb 24 2009, 1:32am
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Was Annatar pretending to be an elf?
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Curious
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Feb 24 2009, 6:32am
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What 'Miscellaneous Spirits'?
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Tolkien Forever
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Feb 24 2009, 2:05pm
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It's just a theory.
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Curious
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Feb 24 2009, 3:24pm
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Never Heard That
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Tolkien Forever
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Feb 24 2009, 8:01pm
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Check
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Curious
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Feb 25 2009, 7:53am
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Door Number Three
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Tolkien Forever
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Feb 25 2009, 2:07pm
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This is one of the most inexplicable editing decisions in the published Silmarillion
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 24 2009, 8:05pm
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Wouldn't It Be Great
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Tolkien Forever
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Feb 24 2009, 8:37pm
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Very interesting!//
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Curious
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Feb 24 2009, 9:51pm
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Not so implausible to me
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Dreamdeer
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Feb 24 2009, 4:02pm
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Hmmmm....
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Morthoron
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Feb 25 2009, 2:06am
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Difficult
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Dreamdeer
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Feb 25 2009, 4:04am
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Tolkien was powerfully conflicted
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squire
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Feb 25 2009, 4:32am
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Ah, but...
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Dreamdeer
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Feb 25 2009, 3:13pm
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Nonetheless....
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Morthoron
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Feb 25 2009, 3:53pm
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Still seems plausible to me...
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Dreamdeer
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Feb 25 2009, 4:20pm
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Why Not?
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Tolkien Forever
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Feb 25 2009, 5:02pm
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Some Thoughts About Some of Your Thoughts
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 24 2009, 4:34am
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The broader legendarium is a first class mess. Not the work of a niggling and perfectionist writer.
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squire
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Feb 24 2009, 5:34am
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I am not "looking at the broader
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Curious
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Feb 24 2009, 6:25am
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I don't get it.
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FarFromHome
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Feb 24 2009, 8:51am
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Tolkien in his later years was not the literary equivalent of a dog chasing his tail
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 24 2009, 2:27pm
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Morgoth's Ring is my favorite book in the HoME series,
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Curious
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Feb 25 2009, 2:38pm
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Actually, he never comtemplated eliminating the Two Trees
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 25 2009, 3:32pm
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Perhaps the HoME stories you love
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Curious
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Feb 25 2009, 6:18pm
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Quite true
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 25 2009, 6:30pm
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??????
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Tolkien Forever
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Feb 26 2009, 12:54am
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We discussed this recently.
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Curious
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Feb 26 2009, 2:04am
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Oh Boy....
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Tolkien Forever
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Feb 26 2009, 4:15am
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Enough....
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Tolkien Forever
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Feb 26 2009, 4:28am
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Isn't calling an early 20th century English author "classist"...
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squire
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Feb 26 2009, 1:13am
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Well, the emphasis of
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Curious
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Feb 26 2009, 1:56am
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Where would I find each of these stories?
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Curious
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Feb 25 2009, 6:29pm
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"The Wanderings of Húrin" is in HoMe XI.
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N.E. Brigand
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Feb 25 2009, 7:56pm
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Thanks! I'm not
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Curious
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Feb 25 2009, 8:16pm
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Among other unique features, that story has a *hero lawyer* and a trial scene! FYI //
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squire
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Feb 25 2009, 10:34pm
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Sorry for the delay
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 25 2009, 11:06pm
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I should stop talking about serious / not serious. And I didn't say "mere."
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Curious
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Feb 24 2009, 3:02pm
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"Mere" was probably my addition, I agree.
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FarFromHome
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Feb 24 2009, 3:36pm
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Letter #160, as
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Curious
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Feb 24 2009, 6:49pm
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Oh, *that* game...
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FarFromHome
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Feb 26 2009, 10:20am
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Not that real history works that way
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squire
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Feb 26 2009, 11:24am
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Agreed.
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FarFromHome
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Feb 26 2009, 12:00pm
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And that's why I have bigger issues with you
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Curious
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Feb 26 2009, 12:23pm
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Not at all.
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FarFromHome
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Feb 26 2009, 1:05pm
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I have a bias
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Curious
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Feb 26 2009, 5:10pm
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Well I'm glad...
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FarFromHome
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Feb 26 2009, 6:18pm
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What, exactly, have you noticed?
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Curious
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Feb 26 2009, 7:40pm
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That's difficult to answer.
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FarFromHome
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Feb 26 2009, 10:33pm
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In the films, do we really witness those events?
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N.E. Brigand
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Feb 26 2009, 10:38pm
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We witness them
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FarFromHome
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Mar 1 2009, 6:26pm
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Yes, the book is hobbitcentric.
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Curious
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Feb 26 2009, 11:26pm
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Sounds good to me.
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FarFromHome
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Mar 1 2009, 7:05pm
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Gandalf, Gimli and Legolas, the hosts of Mordor.
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N.E. Brigand
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Mar 1 2009, 7:31pm
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Myth of idealized heroes
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 2 2009, 12:30am
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They may have foibles, but have any of them
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Curious
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Mar 2 2009, 3:29pm
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Sin is relative
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 2 2009, 3:52pm
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Hmm.
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Curious
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Mar 2 2009, 4:54pm
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Are we on the same page?
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 2 2009, 5:33pm
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How do we know
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N.E. Brigand
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Mar 2 2009, 5:42pm
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Different intention
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 2 2009, 6:18pm
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Who wants "better than average"?
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Curious
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Mar 2 2009, 6:39pm
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Matter of degree and opportunity
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 3 2009, 4:23am
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He also has divine and elven blood.
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Curious
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Mar 3 2009, 11:23am
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I think it's a bit more complicated.
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FarFromHome
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Mar 3 2009, 12:34pm
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Semi-divine,
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Curious
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Mar 3 2009, 4:18pm
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Well, at least the female ancestors knew.
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Darkstone
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Mar 3 2009, 5:36pm
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Dirhael is male.//
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Curious
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Mar 3 2009, 5:45pm
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I know.
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Darkstone
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Mar 3 2009, 6:09pm
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I see your point. Although
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Curious
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Mar 3 2009, 6:56pm
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I can't see anything
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FarFromHome
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Mar 3 2009, 5:42pm
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Is Gandalf human, then, by your definition?
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Curious
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Mar 3 2009, 5:50pm
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Yes. //
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FarFromHome
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Mar 3 2009, 6:15pm
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That explains alot.
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Curious
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Mar 3 2009, 7:00pm
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Philosopher-King
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 4 2009, 2:04am
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Faith in Christ, and the ennoblement of the noble
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squire
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Mar 2 2009, 7:26pm
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Very interesting point!
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Curious
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Mar 2 2009, 11:03pm
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Normalcy
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 3 2009, 4:34am
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Heroes may inspire us, but
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Curious
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Mar 3 2009, 11:32am
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Spiderman comes across as human too.
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Curious
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Mar 3 2009, 5:43pm
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Nice point about the Ring
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FarFromHome
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Mar 3 2009, 5:49pm
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Except
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Curious
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Mar 3 2009, 5:54pm
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Agreed.
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FarFromHome
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Mar 3 2009, 6:23pm
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I don't think so.
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Curious
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Mar 3 2009, 6:48pm
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Aragorn as Elessar does not receive the Power of the Ring
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squire
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Mar 3 2009, 5:51pm
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That line can be fuzzy.
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Curious
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Mar 3 2009, 6:02pm
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Well, he is a King, for gods' sake.
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squire
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Mar 3 2009, 7:12pm
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No, not sinister at all.
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Curious
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Mar 3 2009, 7:31pm
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Police
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 4 2009, 2:19am
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Where is the inquest
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Curious
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Mar 4 2009, 2:23am
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Something subtler
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 4 2009, 2:28am
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I find your point more persuasive than squire's.
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Curious
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Mar 4 2009, 2:13pm
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Thank you!
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 4 2009, 3:52pm
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Is the Guard a police force?
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Curious
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Mar 4 2009, 6:05pm
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I concede both points...
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 5 2009, 4:32am
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So what?
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squire
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Mar 4 2009, 3:10am
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Sure I can imagine it.
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Curious
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Mar 4 2009, 11:14am
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That explains a lot.
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squire
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Mar 4 2009, 11:40am
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Good points--important distinction! //
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 4 2009, 2:10am
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I won't repeat
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Curious
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Mar 2 2009, 6:04pm
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Agreed.
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 2 2009, 6:21pm
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Yep, there's a bright line between them.//
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Curious
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Mar 2 2009, 6:32pm
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My edits vanished
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 2 2009, 4:02pm
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Oops--they didn't disappear!
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Dreamdeer
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Mar 2 2009, 4:04pm
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Tolkien's characters *are* believable within
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Curious
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Mar 2 2009, 5:16pm
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Think of hobbits as a lens, not as authors
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squire
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Mar 1 2009, 7:40pm
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That works for me.
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FarFromHome
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Mar 2 2009, 5:28pm
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FYI: "mythology for England" isn't Tolkien's phrase.
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N.E. Brigand
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Mar 2 2009, 5:46pm
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I take back the "gag" remark
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squire
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Mar 2 2009, 6:54pm
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Fair enough.
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FarFromHome
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Mar 2 2009, 7:13pm
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I tend to agree with the 'hobbit-lens' rather than 'hobbit-author' distinction you make
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sador
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Mar 2 2009, 7:28pm
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I discussed most of these points
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Curious
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Mar 2 2009, 12:16am
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What's the big deal?
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Tolkien Forever
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Feb 26 2009, 2:01pm
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I don't have any problem with your approach.
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Curious
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Feb 26 2009, 5:24pm
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Dog Chasing the Tail
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Tolkien Forever
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Feb 26 2009, 10:45pm
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Can we not take this subject any further?
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N.E. Brigand
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Feb 26 2009, 11:05pm
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Agreed.
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Curious
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Feb 26 2009, 11:09pm
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I agree totaslly
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Tolkien Forever
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Feb 26 2009, 11:14pm
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No, I hate Tolkien.
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Curious
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Feb 26 2009, 11:07pm
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Enchantment and Disillusionment
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Dreamdeer
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Feb 26 2009, 5:16pm
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I like finding a middle ground.
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Curious
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Feb 26 2009, 5:37pm
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Thank you for a gentlemanly response...
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Dreamdeer
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Feb 26 2009, 5:56pm
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It's possible.
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Curious
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Feb 26 2009, 6:21pm
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It's not unpublished.
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FarFromHome
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Feb 26 2009, 6:33pm
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Written before LOTR was published.
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N.E. Brigand
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Feb 26 2009, 6:45pm
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You are quite correct
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 26 2009, 9:13pm
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I don't think Tolkien lived in his own fantasy land all the time.
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squire
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Feb 26 2009, 10:08pm
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You mistake my meaning
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 26 2009, 10:27pm
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I get you now
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squire
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Feb 26 2009, 11:35pm
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I agree with both you and Curious about the narrator of LOTR
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Feb 26 2009, 11:42pm
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I'll have to disagree...
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Morthoron
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Feb 27 2009, 2:00am
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Who saw and reported on the "most tragic moment" in LOTR?
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N.E. Brigand
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Feb 27 2009, 2:11am
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Very true...
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Morthoron
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Feb 27 2009, 2:39am
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Hmm.
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N.E. Brigand
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Feb 27 2009, 2:55am
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Not quite that.
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FarFromHome
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Mar 1 2009, 4:33pm
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Do you really think
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Mar 1 2009, 4:49pm
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Well, it's certainly arguable
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squire
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Mar 1 2009, 5:05pm
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Sure.
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N.E. Brigand
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Mar 1 2009, 5:09pm
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Focusing on the hobbits protagonists is not the same
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Curious
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Feb 27 2009, 8:13am
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In the Prologue, Merry is considered to be a bit of an author
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sador
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Feb 27 2009, 8:29am
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And I would argue
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Curious
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Feb 26 2009, 10:57pm
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What if your premise is wrong?
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N.E. Brigand
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Feb 26 2009, 6:18pm
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Yes
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Dreamdeer
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Feb 27 2009, 4:27am
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Harder and more elusive.
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N.E. Brigand
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Feb 27 2009, 5:02am
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Now it was my turn!
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sador
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Feb 24 2009, 1:43pm
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