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a.s.
Valinor
Jul 25 2008, 11:19am
Views: 1188
Shortcut
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Wikipedia entry for Christmas: The Christian idea that Christ was conceived on the same date that he died on the cross is consistent with a Jewish belief that a prophet lived an integral number of years. [19] From that footnote, I found the Catholic Encyclopedia entry for The Feast of the Annunciation (I love the snide "against all astronomical possibility" parenthetical remark!): All Christian antiquity (against all astronomical possibility) recognized the 25th of March as the actual day of Our Lord's death. The opinion that the Incarnation also took place on that date is found in the pseudo-Cyprianic work "De Pascha Computus", c. 240. It argues that the coming of Our Lord and His death must have coincided with the creation andfall of Adam. And since the world was created in spring, the Saviour was also conceived and died shortly after the equinox of spring. Similar fanciful calculations are found in the early and later Middle Ages, and to them, no doubt, the dates of the feast of the Annunciation and of Christmas owe their origin. Consequently the ancient martyrologies assign to the 25th of March the creation of Adam and the crucifixion of Our Lord; also, the fall of Lucifer, the passing of Israel through the Red Sea and the immolation of Isaac. (Thruston, Christmas and the Christian Calendar, Amer. Eccl. Rev., XIX, 568.) But I am not sure what Wikpedia means by "a Jewish belief that a prophet lived an integral number of years". Maybe someone has insight into that? But it's obvious that these dates all have pre-Christian significance. Another layer of Tolkien thoughts, hidden in the text. a.s.
"an seileachan" Pooh began to feel a little more comfortable, because when you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Christian Symbolism in LOTR
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arphen
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Jul 22 2008, 12:16am
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Oh dear...JRRT generally...
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ShadoFaxs
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Jul 22 2008, 2:23am
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Tolkien: "Gandalf is an angel".
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N.E. Brigand
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Jul 22 2008, 2:46am
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Is that a quote?
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FarFromHome
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Jul 22 2008, 3:51pm
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Yes, I think so.
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N.E. Brigand
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Jul 22 2008, 6:51pm
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Wizards=Angels
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FantasyFan
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Jul 22 2008, 8:25pm
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That must be it.
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N.E. Brigand
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Jul 22 2008, 9:03pm
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Thanks, FF and NEB
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FarFromHome
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Jul 22 2008, 9:23pm
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There is more in the letter
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FantasyFan
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Jul 22 2008, 11:25pm
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Decifer please...
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Daughter of Nienna
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Jul 23 2008, 4:10am
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It's all greek to me...
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FantasyFan
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Jul 23 2008, 1:11pm
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and all the choirs of angels
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a.s.
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Jul 23 2008, 1:45pm
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Huh?
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ShadoFaxs
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Jul 23 2008, 3:19pm
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The nuns never taught me this either!
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FarFromHome
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Jul 23 2008, 4:39pm
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Patron saints
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FantasyFan
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Jul 23 2008, 6:54pm
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My incarderation -erm - education was from '58-70.
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ShadoFaxs
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Jul 23 2008, 9:13pm
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roughly the same time frame, then!
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a.s.
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Jul 23 2008, 11:01pm
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Lol, I don't think you're crazy.
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ShadoFaxs
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Jul 24 2008, 5:53am
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Nice!
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FarFromHome
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Jul 24 2008, 10:49am
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Jesuits, schmezuits...LOL
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a.s.
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Jul 23 2008, 7:46pm
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Wasn't Decifer the co-star of I Love Lucifer?
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L. Ron Halfelven
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Jul 23 2008, 6:37pm
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No, he's the one that makes computer games.
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Elizabeth
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Jul 23 2008, 7:27pm
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This is Aquifer son of Conifer. You owe him your allergies./
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L. Ron Halfelven
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Jul 23 2008, 10:16pm
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That's funny!
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Daughter of Nienna
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Jul 24 2008, 2:31am
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It may be semantics...
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RosieLass
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Jul 22 2008, 8:30pm
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"Obviously, Aragorn/Jesus."
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N.E. Brigand
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Jul 22 2008, 2:47am
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About Aragorn/Jesus and Satan/Sauron...
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arphen
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Jul 22 2008, 3:38pm
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Hmmm...
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Morthoron
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Jul 22 2008, 4:09pm
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I would have thought Frodo was the Christ figure
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Annael
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Jul 22 2008, 6:45pm
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Several characters have could fit the Christ figure image.
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RosieLass
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Jul 22 2008, 8:33pm
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another way to see it
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Daughter of Nienna
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Jul 23 2008, 6:03am
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Beowulf, Tolkien and LOTR
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ArathornJax
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Jul 23 2008, 7:20am
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Exactly! Well said. //
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Aerin
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Jul 23 2008, 7:32am
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Exactly!
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Daughter of Nienna
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Jul 23 2008, 8:46am
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My experience
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Aerin
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Jul 23 2008, 4:45pm
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My experience.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Jul 23 2008, 7:12pm
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I think
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Aerin
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Jul 23 2008, 7:54pm
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That is...
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Daughter of Nienna
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Jul 24 2008, 2:41am
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to Clarify...
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Daughter of Nienna
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Jul 24 2008, 3:12am
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well
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Annael
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Jul 24 2008, 3:38pm
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see link inside...
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weaver
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Jul 22 2008, 2:53am
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You won't find them...
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Elizabeth
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Jul 22 2008, 7:19am
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Erm...actually...
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ShadoFaxs
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Jul 22 2008, 7:28pm
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Quite right. //
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N.E. Brigand
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Jul 22 2008, 7:34pm
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Sorry... that's what I get
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Elizabeth
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Jul 23 2008, 6:53am
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Here is a pretty heavy discussion from the old boards
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hatster
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Jul 22 2008, 10:30am
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some links
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a.s.
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Jul 22 2008, 11:55am
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loved that old RR link and the Buddhist nun too!
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weaver
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Jul 22 2008, 12:57pm
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I love this!
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Arwen's daughter
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Jul 22 2008, 3:28pm
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true
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Annael
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Jul 22 2008, 6:41pm
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LOTR seems a classic quest tale...
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ShadoFaxs
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Jul 22 2008, 7:53pm
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Tolkien's view
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orcbane
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Jul 22 2008, 12:53pm
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Quite true...
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Morthoron
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Jul 22 2008, 2:02pm
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Very nice! //
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FarFromHome
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Jul 22 2008, 2:44pm
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mods up!
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weaver
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Jul 22 2008, 3:21pm
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a piece of the puzzle and not the whole
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a.s.
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Jul 22 2008, 6:30pm
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Certainly...
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Morthoron
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Jul 22 2008, 7:42pm
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yes, I agree
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a.s.
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Jul 23 2008, 1:55am
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But 'viaticum'
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FarFromHome
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Jul 22 2008, 9:11pm
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yes, but no
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a.s.
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Jul 23 2008, 2:21am
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Well, I like the idea
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FarFromHome
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Jul 23 2008, 5:21pm
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Just as the New Year's Day
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a.s.
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Jul 23 2008, 7:50pm
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1752
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Aerin
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Jul 23 2008, 8:02pm
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I think it's the other way around...
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FarFromHome
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Jul 23 2008, 8:43pm
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NIFTY!!! you are so smart
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a.s.
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Jul 23 2008, 10:40pm
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That's got to be Tolkien's own little joke!
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dernwyn
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Jul 23 2008, 11:49pm
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Tom Shippey thinks so.
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N.E. Brigand
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Jul 24 2008, 12:43am
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yes, that's what I said
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a.s.
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Jul 24 2008, 12:46am
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Can you explain...
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FarFromHome
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Jul 24 2008, 10:39am
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ROTFL!!
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Aerin
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Jul 24 2008, 4:43pm
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I highly doubt it!
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a.s.
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Jul 25 2008, 1:15am
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Good Friday
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Aerin
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Jul 25 2008, 4:26am
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Thank you! //
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N.E. Brigand
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Jul 25 2008, 4:44am
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thanks!!! And I found this:
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a.s.
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Jul 25 2008, 11:19am
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"Integral years"
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Aerin
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Jul 25 2008, 3:33pm
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my footer is becoming very apt, in this thread
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a.s.
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Jul 25 2008, 4:37pm
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I checked the Shippey reference
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FarFromHome
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Jul 25 2008, 8:09pm
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Very cool indeed!
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Aerin
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Jul 26 2008, 3:32am
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some of us will discuss minutiae no matter the room! :-)
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a.s.
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Jul 26 2008, 2:31pm
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Catholic Mythology
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shadowdog
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Jul 26 2008, 5:52pm
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So you did!
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N.E. Brigand
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Jul 24 2008, 12:38pm
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'synthesizer'
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Daughter of Nienna
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Jul 23 2008, 5:09am
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I am not a Christian
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Annael
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Jul 22 2008, 3:10pm
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I have a problem with that aspect of Tolkien, too...
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weaver
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Jul 22 2008, 3:20pm
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The one thing in LOTR that always...
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RosieLass
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Jul 22 2008, 8:38pm
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I don't think the "long defeat"
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FarFromHome
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Jul 22 2008, 3:41pm
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I think, though...
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Sunflower
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Jul 22 2008, 5:47pm
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Not a Christian either
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Daughter of Nienna
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Jul 22 2008, 7:30pm
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*mods up*
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Lunamoth
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Jul 22 2008, 7:44pm
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I think you've hit upon the heart of it.
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ShadoFaxs
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Jul 22 2008, 9:05pm
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What she said.
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Magpie
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Jul 22 2008, 9:52pm
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No time for titles
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orcbane
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Jul 22 2008, 8:41pm
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Spirituality and Religion
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Daughter of Nienna
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Jul 23 2008, 5:36am
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Learn that poem
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orcbane
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Jul 23 2008, 1:09pm
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My Mistake!
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Daughter of Nienna
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Jul 24 2008, 2:27am
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What a great quote!
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Aerin
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Jul 24 2008, 4:03am
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individuals who contain universals
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Daughter of Nienna
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Jul 24 2008, 5:08am
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Has anyone seen Tolkien ?
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orcbane
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Jul 24 2008, 11:48am
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What are you Tolkien about? ;) //
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grammaboodawg
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Jul 24 2008, 2:00pm
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I'm not sure, I think he may have misTolkien...//
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weaver
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Jul 24 2008, 2:06pm
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What is all this Tolkien about what is Tolkien Tolkien about ?
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orcbane
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Jul 24 2008, 2:37pm
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I don't know...so I'm Tolkien the next train out of here...///
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weaver
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Jul 24 2008, 2:38pm
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Don't forget your Tolkien
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orcbane
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Jul 24 2008, 2:39pm
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I better get mine soon, then, for the trains, JRR-riving soon...///
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weaver
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Jul 24 2008, 2:49pm
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Hijacking heck...I'm Tolkien dereuelment :)
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orcbane
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Jul 24 2008, 3:05pm
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not to worry, Edith that last week, too...///
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weaver
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Jul 24 2008, 3:20pm
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You guys are getting Pri-scilly! //
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Arwen's daughter
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Jul 24 2008, 3:25pm
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Mabel we are, and Mabel we aren't..//
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weaver
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Jul 24 2008, 3:28pm
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You guys are so unReuely! //
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Arwen's daughter
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Jul 24 2008, 3:49pm
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Tolkien Reuelz
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orcbane
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Jul 24 2008, 4:15pm
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Ronald kinds of levels!//
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weaver
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Jul 24 2008, 4:29pm
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The JRRy's out on that one. //
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grammaboodawg
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Jul 24 2008, 4:33pm
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Gramma, you're so tol-Keen! //
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Arwen's daughter
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Jul 24 2008, 4:59pm
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...she makes Suffield so happy whenever she's around...//
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weaver
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Jul 24 2008, 5:47pm
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I see what you're saying about his pessimistic attitude ...
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Elven
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Jul 23 2008, 9:53am
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Very interesting!
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Daughter of Nienna
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Jul 24 2008, 3:21am
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You're welcome DoN :-D //
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Elven
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Jul 24 2008, 11:29am
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heh
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Annael
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Jul 24 2008, 3:29pm
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Tolkien also said
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Aerin
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Jul 22 2008, 11:22pm
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Well said!
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Daughter of Nienna
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Jul 23 2008, 5:42am
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Conciseness
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Aerin
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Jul 23 2008, 7:29am
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And apperently good at decifering!
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Daughter of Nienna
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Jul 23 2008, 8:24am
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Heh
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Annael
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Jul 23 2008, 2:51pm
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If only
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Aerin
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Jul 23 2008, 4:31pm
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I used to tell the scientists
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Annael
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Jul 24 2008, 3:41pm
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