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Faramond
The Shire
Jun 2 2008, 8:18pm
Views: 5896
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For Guillermo & Co: A Holm-Related HOBBIT Idea!
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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Firstly, I was VERY impressed with Del Toro's answers and am convinced that he'll do an even better job than Jackson did (if truly given the kind of power that Jackson indicated he'll get).
For a long time I've been struggling with the reality that Ian Holm might not be capable at his age to handle such a physically strenuous role (though I have no doubt they could appropriately de-age him by ten years to make him appear as he did in the flashback in FOTR). He is, however, the perfect Bilbo and deserves to be prominently involved in the films. Here are my thoughts:
So how could they use Holm without him actually being cast throughout the film? Simple. Holm-Bilbo is writing the first part of the Red Book of Westmarch in Rivendell as the events of LOTR are unfolding (which would be accurate according to Tolkien). After all, Bilbo WAS the ostensible author of at least part of that (fictional) manuscript. Holm's involvement could be sprinkled throughout the first movie and he might be used minimally (if at all) in the second movie. This actually would work as the older Bilbo (by Holm) could describe Bilbo in any way--close but not necessarily exactly like a younger Holm''s Bilbo would look. This would solve the "frail, increasingly ancient Holm" problem, as Holm's Bilbo without the Ring is aging rapidly in Rivendell as he writes. I think this cinematic device (The Hobbit as flashback as Bilbo writes it) would be a stunning, poignant cinematic conceit if filmed sparingly and wisely. It could all take place, in fact, between the Long Expected Party and Frodo & Co.'s Flight to the Ford.
This seems like an elegant compromise to the Holm dilemma. I can even envision a humorous bit near the beginning where Holm's Bilbo imagines himself in a wig (as in the FOTR flashback under the Misty Mountains) and scraps that image, opting for a slightly different, younger (and perhaps a bit trimmer) version of himself (conveniently played by a younger actor that somewhat resembles Holm but who doesn't need to be a dead ringer).
At any rate, the whole literary conceit (which JRRT himself used) fits in nicely with the idea of all five films coming from Bilbo's original manuscript. I love metafiction, and this narrative device would certainly be in the spirit of the professor's own creation. It's a nice tip of the hat to both Holm's brilliant performance and JRRT's brilliant "translation" of the Bilbo's/Frodo's/Sam's first hand report of the events surrounding Sauron's rise to power and the hobbits' sudden relevance late in the 3rd Age, and--of course--the War of the Ring. And there are fine opportunities to jump from past events (from and after The Hobbit) to "present" interruptions and even poignant scenes between Bilbo and old friends in Rivendell. This would have to be handled carefully, of course, but I think it could potentially be beautifully filmed by the likes of GDT, who is such a master of pacing and character interaction in his past movies.
There also would be a perfect opportunity to bookend the "you haven't aged a day" comment at the beginning of the second film: Balin comes (with Gandalf) to visit Bilbo a good many years after the events in The Hobbit. It was "long ago" when remembered by Frodo in "The Council of Elrond" in FOTR, but it would've fit nicely into the events of the coming second film and would be a good opportunity for Gandalf to note Bilbo's appearance (and for it later to make sense when Gandalf observes that Bilbo hasn't "aged a day"). This might also work nicely if after the first film the filmmakers have dispensed with Holm-Bilbo's literary conceit--what we have in that case is the "real" Bilbo unaltered or adapted by the "author" (i.e., Bilbo himself). Does that make sense?
Also, it would be a great opportunity to deal with Balin's decision to repopulate Moria, Gandalf's strong disapproval of the idea, and the awakening of the Balrog. Yeah, and you know that there is plenty of great material to flesh out that JRRT himself wrote at least in outline and usually in a good bit of detail (sometimes with dialogue) that would easily fill up film 2!
What do you think?
Best,
Faramond
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Is the Single Movie Hobbit a contractual obligation?
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AlatarVinyamar
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May 26 2008, 2:28pm
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Maybe not contractually...
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leo
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May 26 2008, 2:40pm
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I disagree
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SeanDuff
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May 26 2008, 3:55pm
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Late introductions
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Altaira
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May 26 2008, 5:25pm
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Parallel timelines
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merklynn
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May 26 2008, 5:54pm
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Dol Guldur
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FrodoEyes
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May 26 2008, 6:19pm
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The Appendices also say:
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Altaira
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May 26 2008, 7:17pm
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Yeah but that last event took place before the events in...
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leo
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May 26 2008, 7:28pm
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True
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Altaira
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May 26 2008, 7:38pm
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2 centavos-
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Guillermo
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May 26 2008, 10:17pm
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That's very reassuring
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burrahobbit
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May 26 2008, 10:32pm
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Thank you!
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AlatarVinyamar
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May 26 2008, 10:46pm
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Thanks for the clarification
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Altaira
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May 26 2008, 11:21pm
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and that makes me think ..
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Elven
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May 26 2008, 11:33pm
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Thank you ,Guillermo.
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ShadoFaxs
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May 27 2008, 1:17am
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Thank you!
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Peredhil lover
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May 27 2008, 5:30am
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Thank you Guillermo
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fingolfin_nc
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May 27 2008, 8:40pm
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Well
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Darkstone
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May 27 2008, 8:58pm
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And in the end...
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dernwyn
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May 28 2008, 12:11am
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*broad smile* You can't ask better than that!
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grammaboodawg
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May 28 2008, 1:18am
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For Guillermo & Co: A Holm-Related HOBBIT Idea!
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Faramond
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Jun 2 2008, 8:18pm
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The hunt for Gollum
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Elizabeth
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May 26 2008, 6:55pm
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It would make for an interesting movie though
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leo
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May 26 2008, 7:30pm
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Is there a 17-year gap in the film of FotR? //
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N.E. Brigand
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May 27 2008, 3:52am
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Not in the film, but I think it is in the book //
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Kelvarhin
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May 27 2008, 4:06am
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It's not necessarily not in the film
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Arwen's daughter
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May 27 2008, 4:33am
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It was very cleverly done.
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Elizabeth
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May 27 2008, 7:33am
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I always got the impression from the film
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Kelvarhin
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May 27 2008, 7:36am
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You said it
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Earl
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May 27 2008, 8:59am
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I'm hoping for new storylines in Film2
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burrahobbit
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May 27 2008, 1:08pm
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Hmm... you have a point
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Earl
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May 27 2008, 1:51pm
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Gandalf's vigilance good theme
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burrahobbit
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May 27 2008, 2:22pm
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The question is...
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AlatarVinyamar
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May 27 2008, 2:35pm
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Agree- Dol Guldur would work as a climax
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burrahobbit
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May 27 2008, 3:14pm
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I love the Gandalf Vigilante idea
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Empedocles
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May 27 2008, 3:14pm
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17 years
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FarFromHome
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May 27 2008, 11:20am
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It depends on how you look at it
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Earl
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May 27 2008, 8:48am
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