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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
For Guillermo & Co: A Holm-Related HOBBIT Idea!

Faramond
The Shire

Jun 2 2008, 8:18pm


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For Guillermo & Co: A Holm-Related HOBBIT Idea! [In reply to] Can't Post

Firstly, I was VERY impressed with Del Toro's answers and am convinced that he'll do an even better job than Jackson did (if truly given the kind of power that Jackson indicated he'll get).

For a long time I've been struggling with the reality that Ian Holm might not be capable at his age to handle such a physically strenuous role (though I have no doubt they could appropriately de-age him by ten years to make him appear as he did in the flashback in FOTR). He is, however, the perfect Bilbo and deserves to be prominently involved in the films. Here are my thoughts:

So how could they use Holm without him actually being cast throughout the film? Simple. Holm-Bilbo is writing the first part of the Red Book of Westmarch in Rivendell as the events of LOTR are unfolding (which would be accurate according to Tolkien). After all, Bilbo WAS the ostensible author of at least part of that (fictional) manuscript. Holm's involvement could be sprinkled throughout the first movie and he might be used minimally (if at all) in the second movie. This actually would work as the older Bilbo (by Holm) could describe Bilbo in any way--close but not necessarily exactly like a younger Holm''s Bilbo would look. This would solve the "frail, increasingly ancient Holm" problem, as Holm's Bilbo without the Ring is aging rapidly in Rivendell as he writes. I think this cinematic device (The Hobbit as flashback as Bilbo writes it) would be a stunning, poignant cinematic conceit if filmed sparingly and wisely. It could all take place, in fact, between the Long Expected Party and Frodo & Co.'s Flight to the Ford.

This seems like an elegant compromise to the Holm dilemma. I can even envision a humorous bit near the beginning where Holm's Bilbo imagines himself in a wig (as in the FOTR flashback under the Misty Mountains) and scraps that image, opting for a slightly different, younger (and perhaps a bit trimmer) version of himself (conveniently played by a younger actor that somewhat resembles Holm but who doesn't need to be a dead ringer).

At any rate, the whole literary conceit (which JRRT himself used) fits in nicely with the idea of all five films coming from Bilbo's original manuscript. I love metafiction, and this narrative device would certainly be in the spirit of the professor's own creation. It's a nice tip of the hat to both Holm's brilliant performance and JRRT's brilliant "translation" of the Bilbo's/Frodo's/Sam's first hand report of the events surrounding Sauron's rise to power and the hobbits' sudden relevance late in the 3rd Age, and--of course--the War of the Ring. And there are fine opportunities to jump from past events (from and after The Hobbit) to "present" interruptions and even poignant scenes between Bilbo and old friends in Rivendell. This would have to be handled carefully, of course, but I think it could potentially be beautifully filmed by the likes of GDT, who is such a master of pacing and character interaction in his past movies.

There also would be a perfect opportunity to bookend the "you haven't aged a day" comment at the beginning of the second film: Balin comes (with Gandalf) to visit Bilbo a good many years after the events in The Hobbit. It was "long ago" when remembered by Frodo in "The Council of Elrond" in FOTR, but it would've fit nicely into the events of the coming second film and would be a good opportunity for Gandalf to note Bilbo's appearance (and for it later to make sense when Gandalf observes that Bilbo hasn't "aged a day"). This might also work nicely if after the first film the filmmakers have dispensed with Holm-Bilbo's literary conceit--what we have in that case is the "real" Bilbo unaltered or adapted by the "author" (i.e., Bilbo himself). Does that make sense?

Also, it would be a great opportunity to deal with Balin's decision to repopulate Moria, Gandalf's strong disapproval of the idea, and the awakening of the Balrog. Yeah, and you know that there is plenty of great material to flesh out that JRRT himself wrote at least in outline and usually in a good bit of detail (sometimes with dialogue) that would easily fill up film 2!

What do you think?

Best,
Faramond

Subject User Time
Is the Single Movie Hobbit a contractual obligation? AlatarVinyamar Send a private message to AlatarVinyamar May 26 2008, 2:28pm
    Maybe not contractually... leo Send a private message to leo May 26 2008, 2:40pm
        I disagree SeanDuff Send a private message to SeanDuff May 26 2008, 3:55pm
            Late introductions Altaira Send a private message to Altaira May 26 2008, 5:25pm
                Parallel timelines merklynn Send a private message to merklynn May 26 2008, 5:54pm
                    Dol Guldur FrodoEyes Send a private message to FrodoEyes May 26 2008, 6:19pm
                        The Appendices also say: Altaira Send a private message to Altaira May 26 2008, 7:17pm
                            Yeah but that last event took place before the events in... leo Send a private message to leo May 26 2008, 7:28pm
                                True Altaira Send a private message to Altaira May 26 2008, 7:38pm
                                    2 centavos- Guillermo May 26 2008, 10:17pm
                                        That's very reassuring burrahobbit Send a private message to burrahobbit May 26 2008, 10:32pm
                                        Thank you! AlatarVinyamar Send a private message to AlatarVinyamar May 26 2008, 10:46pm
                                        Thanks for the clarification Altaira Send a private message to Altaira May 26 2008, 11:21pm
                                        and that makes me think .. Elven Send a private message to Elven May 26 2008, 11:33pm
                                        Thank you ,Guillermo. ShadoFaxs Send a private message to ShadoFaxs May 27 2008, 1:17am
                                        Thank you! Peredhil lover Send a private message to Peredhil lover May 27 2008, 5:30am
                                        Thank you Guillermo fingolfin_nc Send a private message to fingolfin_nc May 27 2008, 8:40pm
                                        Well Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone May 27 2008, 8:58pm
                                        And in the end... dernwyn Send a private message to dernwyn May 28 2008, 12:11am
                                        *broad smile* You can't ask better than that! grammaboodawg Send a private message to grammaboodawg May 28 2008, 1:18am
                                        For Guillermo & Co: A Holm-Related HOBBIT Idea! Faramond Send a private message to Faramond Jun 2 2008, 8:18pm
                    The hunt for Gollum Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth May 26 2008, 6:55pm
                        It would make for an interesting movie though leo Send a private message to leo May 26 2008, 7:30pm
                        Is there a 17-year gap in the film of FotR? // N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand May 27 2008, 3:52am
                            Not in the film, but I think it is in the book // Kelvarhin Send a private message to Kelvarhin May 27 2008, 4:06am
                            It's not necessarily not in the film Arwen's daughter Send a private message to Arwen's daughter May 27 2008, 4:33am
                                It was very cleverly done. Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth May 27 2008, 7:33am
                                    I always got the impression from the film Kelvarhin Send a private message to Kelvarhin May 27 2008, 7:36am
                                    You said it Earl Send a private message to Earl May 27 2008, 8:59am
                                        I'm hoping for new storylines in Film2 burrahobbit Send a private message to burrahobbit May 27 2008, 1:08pm
                                            Hmm... you have a point Earl Send a private message to Earl May 27 2008, 1:51pm
                                                Gandalf's vigilance good theme burrahobbit Send a private message to burrahobbit May 27 2008, 2:22pm
                                                    The question is... AlatarVinyamar Send a private message to AlatarVinyamar May 27 2008, 2:35pm
                                                        Agree- Dol Guldur would work as a climax burrahobbit Send a private message to burrahobbit May 27 2008, 3:14pm
                                                        I love the Gandalf Vigilante idea Empedocles Send a private message to Empedocles May 27 2008, 3:14pm
                                    17 years FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome May 27 2008, 11:20am
                            It depends on how you look at it Earl Send a private message to Earl May 27 2008, 8:48am

 
 
 

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