The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
TORN's Exclusive Interview with Guillermo Del Toro


Apr 25 2008, 1:45pm

Views: 17524
TORN's Exclusive Interview with Guillermo Del Toro

Guillermo talked with our Editor Xoanon about "The Hobbit" films...some quick juicy details...

• Ian McKellen basically confirmed...
• Andy Serkis basically confirmed...
• Description of the 'second' film

[Read the Full Interview]

The Mysterious Calisuri

(This post was edited by calisuri on Apr 25 2008, 1:51pm)

Peredhil lover

Apr 25 2008, 1:58pm

Views: 13320

That was fast! Thank you so much, all of you!

The more I get to know about who will be involved and what is planned, the better I feel - it sounds so great. It's all so promising and exciting! I'm still on cloud nine!

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

L. Ron Halfelven
Grey Havens

Apr 25 2008, 2:01pm

Views: 13520
Sounds like they're going back to Matamata after all!

I hope it doesn't affect our set tour this November, but I'll look on the bright side if it does!

Forum Admin / Moderator

Apr 25 2008, 2:17pm

Views: 12886

I'm still in office and I screamed "Yes" when I read this. My co-workers still can't get over my behaviour in here... Oh! Well, it's Friday night, I'm entitled to a little personal bout of craziness. I'm getting comments like "You're like those Star Wars geeks... you know, they're called Trekkies" and so on. I think The Hobbit has just ruined my reputation as the quiet, sober guy in office Blush

Who cares... this is awesome, I'm so glad that while we were all anticipating worse things to come, PJ and Co. were meeting with GDT and getting matters resolved so well. Thanks you for your passion and commitment guys.

Oh... but Mr. Del Toro, if you're reading this (or if anyone else with authority who can ask this question), what about Bilbo? It's nice to hear that Gandalf and Gollum won't change, but Ian Holm is Bilbo. Do you intend getting a younger actor who "ages" into Ian Holm's Bilbo? And for continuity's sake, what about the Prologue scene in FOTR that shows Ian Holm as Bilbo finding the Ring? Questions... questions that need answering, and this geek can't wait, can't wait... musssst... have... the... anssswerss... Evil

(This post was edited by Earl on Apr 25 2008, 2:19pm)


Apr 25 2008, 2:19pm

Views: 12500
Thanks for the interview!

I'm about 90% sure to go to Australia for a bit in 2010, and about 80% sure to tack about a week in New Zealand while we're there. It looks like I might have some great locations to see - and maybe even locations in use!

The Road News and Rumors

Peredhil lover

Apr 25 2008, 2:28pm

Views: 12813
Don't worry

your co-workers will have to get used to your reactions to news about 'The Hobbit'. And they can start today! EvilWink

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

Idril Celebrindal
Tol Eressea

Apr 25 2008, 2:37pm

Views: 12822

This is excellent news. Del Toro has been one of my top choices to take on The Hobbit ever since I saw Pan's Labyrinth. Everything he's said so far sounds like he's approaching the films with a great attitude. (I'm trying not to let my expectations run too high, though.)

The only question I have is the correction to the AP wire story that announced his selection as director. Del Toro said that the second movie would cover the period between the end of The Hobbit and the beginning of Lord of the Rings, but the AP correction seems to contradict this:

"Please note that this version DELETES INCORRECT reference to second movie spanning time between "Hobbit" and "Rings"; New Line now says movies are based on book only."

Does this mean that the two Hobbit movies are only allowed to make use of material that's in The Hobbit? Or does it mean that Del Toro can use material from The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings (i.e., the appendices), but not things like The Quest For Erebor that weren't included in the original movie rights? Or is AP totally out to lunch?

With caffeine, all things are possible.

The pity of Bilbo will screw up the fate of many.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

(This post was edited by Idril Celebrindal on Apr 25 2008, 2:38pm)


Apr 25 2008, 2:47pm

Views: 12586
So what do we call the "Second Filim" if not "the bridge film"?

Okay, Weta Workshop and Weta Digital will be back....talking to Richard Taylor....talking to their prosthetics guy....

***Alan Lee and John Howe will be back! To get the main look and feel of stuff....

****Howard Shore will be back (of course)

***Ian McKellan (Gandalf) and Andy Serkis (Gollum) on board, just waiting to finalize the paperwork

***Wants to use more animatronics than CGI. Frankly I agree; CGI was great for doing lots of stuff which couldn't be done any other way in LOTR, but frankly, ***animatronics will always look more "real" because its physical.

er, for example, many shots of Treebeard are indeed CGI, but there ***IS, a giant, animatronic Treebeard for the closeup shots. Which is better.

*********Okay, I understand he doesn't want it to be just a "bridge film". But I always envisioned the second film as a series of vignettes....apparently he wants it to be a full in and of itself narrative, made using what we know is happening in the intervening years.

***So what do we call it? "The HObbit 2" is wrong because its not like they "invented" a sequel to the HObbit, and that's what that sounds like.

****At least this finally confirms to the idiot mainstream media that "we're not doing "the Hobbit split into two movies" we're doing "The Hobbit" and then another movie.

Let the speculation begin TORNsibs!

"Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game"

Formerly known on TORN as "Draug the Unspeakably Violent"


Apr 25 2008, 3:00pm

Views: 12755
You know ... since the first rumors of his involvement ...

... GDT has said EXACTLY the right things.

And the more he talks, the better and better the whole thing sounds.

I was a big proponent of GDT directing from the moment we heard PJ wasn't an option (especially when the troubling rumors of Sam Raimi's involvement were churning), but I have to say ... I'm even MORE excited about his participation now. If such a thing is possible. I really think his addition to this creative team is going to send this whole enterprise over the top. This isn't just going to be a trip back to Middle Earth ... this is going to be something VERY special.

In months (and years) past I had looked upon the notion of a Hobbit movie as something of an anti-climax. It seemed like a come down after the excitement and emotional whallop of the LOTR trilogy. After such an enormous and powerful story, The Hobbit seemed small and simple ... and far less emotionally immediate ... by comparrison. Making that movie now, it seemed to me, would be more of a nostalgia piece than a new and unique experience. After all, I'd always looked at that book as a lesser story when compared side by side to what Tolkien wrote later. A terrific story, but a warm-up before the masterpiece.

But I'm happy to report that I seem to have been wrong about that.

I have to admit, too, that when talk of the "Bridge" movie first bubbled up, I was a little cynical. The first thought in my head was: "It's a money grab. The studios have run out of books and now they're trying to figure out how to keep the cash registers ringing for another year." But after reading a bit of the speculation here on the boards about what material would be included in that film, I began to get hopeful. And now, after hearing further hints from GDT himself ... I have to say, I may actually be more excited about that Bridge Movie than I am about The Hobbit.

I'm quite ready for another adventure. I've slipped on my finest traveling hood and slung my axe over my shoulder.

And I'm ready to head off to the Lonely Mountain ... and beyond!

"In Hollywood the screenplay is a fire hydrant. And there's a line of dogs around the block." -- Frank Miller


Apr 25 2008, 3:03pm

Views: 12723
My thoughts and hopes

Instead of the bridge film... the Link Film? LOL same thing. "The Hobbit Strikes Back".... "The White Council"... "Middle Earth"....

I just hope that the same actors who played Elrond, Galadriel, and Saruman will also be back. Ie Hugo Weaving, Cate Blanchett, and Christopher Lee. I love those guys.

And I'm looking forward to the dwarves, and hopefully a glimpse through flashback or whatever of their kingdoms... so we can see the contrast between Moria, as well as the Lonely Mountain, and what an actual lived-in Dwarf kingdom looks like.


As for the second film... lots of White Council stuff vs Sauron would be nice. I'm fine with trusting PJ and GDT to tell an entertaining story with the characters to fill a void. It's just a film, and it will never change the fact that it is not true canon. So I say, let them tell a story with characters whose movie interpretations I enjoyed.



Apr 25 2008, 3:07pm

Views: 12433
Never sweeter words did I hear ...

than this ...( the bold is my emphasis)

It will not feel like a bridge, I’ve been hearing it called ‘a bridge film’, it’s not, it’s an integral chapter of the story, and I think we’re all on the same page.

The man has just risen to glory status in my books! Angelic Thankyou! Its not a Bridge film. My pet hate has now gone - Happy days.

I can't wait to hear of advancements they have with the technology between now and the time the filming happens. This film will be beautifully made - Im looking forward to seeing what Smaug - the Wolves/Wargs - the Spiders!!

... and also seeing what the interpretation of 'Golden' means - Im not taking it literally - I cant see everything in sepia tone Wink, but Im thinking rich and prosperous, untouched, unmarred and bright and crisp - pure.

Its nice to see the family coming back together .. I cant imagine how cool some of the reunion photos are going to be!

Thankyou Xoanon for a fantastic interview for us!!
and to all the Torn mods who I noticed have been on board today!
and thankyou Guillermo!

Were off to Hobbiton finally!

Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!


Apr 25 2008, 3:11pm

Views: 12379
I know what you mean...

Yeah, I didn't jump with excitement when GDT's name was first mentioned back in November, or December last year, but it was definitely my preference over Sam Raimi, which I think would have demanded a greater leap of faith from fans. The months since I've slowly warmed to the idea of del Toro, and what has really really helped is finally starting to hear more solid news rather than just our speculation and a long period of nothing substatial being reported. I agree, the more del Toro talks the more I am excited, because the more I feel he truly cares about the world of Middle Earth. I think his riddle was the icing on the cake for me in proving he LOVES the Hobbit. I also think it is reasuring that GDT and PJ have worked together before developing Halo and have a respect for each other, and that PJ is still involved.

Basically, I feel GDT is good guy, and I'm pleased to hear there will be an effort to let the old and new movies all feel as one.

Yay!!! Two things really lifted my work day yesterday... this news, and also hearing from Tom Defalco ex Marvel comics editor in chief. Now the only downer for my weekend will be working in the yard and rainy weather. D'oh!

Forum Admin / Moderator

Apr 25 2008, 3:23pm

Views: 12884
Who knows...

...they might allow you to see it while it's being "replanted"!!!

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915

Tol Eressea

Apr 25 2008, 3:33pm

Views: 12621
This day just keeps getting better.

And this interview just reaffirms my belief that GDT could not be a more worthy addition to this production!

Tol Eressea

Apr 25 2008, 3:34pm

Views: 12443
So great!

And we can comment SO much about this interview. I'll start by saying that the following paragraph was actually quite moving to me:


You’ll be using WETA Digital for the effects?
GDT: Yes, the essential elements for keeping continuity are on track, in the last few weeks I’ve been chatting with a ton of people via email, phone, and in person from the previous films. People like Andy Serkis, Sir Ian McKellen, Howard Shore, John Howe, Gino Acevedo, Richard Taylor next week I’m meeting Alan Lee. I’m doing this to ensure that whatever we do we keep continuity with the other films, yes it’s a world that is slightly more golden at the beginning, a very innocent environment.

What I have repeatedly expressed as my biggest fear about a different director was destroyed here. Middle Earth will look and sound as the Middle Earth we know. If Shore, Lee and Howe are in, then they can do no wrong.

As several of you have said, talk about the second film is quite reassuring. One thing strikes me as the most important in this department:

There will be certain things that we will see from the first movie but from a different point of view.

That means Gandalf point of view from the Quest.

About animatronics. Great decision. Lord of the Rings didn't suffer as much as the Star Wars prequels from CGI creatures, but I agree with what someone said: physical is physical after all, there's still a long way for every CGI shot to look completely "in-shot". I am concerned though as to what they will do with Smaug. A huge dragon animatronic can go wrong in so many ways. However, I trust WETA, and I'm not going to start a whole doubting campaign against a hypothetical possibility. I'll keave just as a comment.

The palette. I knew that was happening. Del Toro shoots really bright colors and so many contrasts. His color brightness (within reality, not Kill Bill like) is probably second only to Yimou Zhang's (Hero, House of the Flying Daggers). And actually, I believe this will work. The Shire, is really in another epoch, and the ambience will actually benefit from a brighter lens. The Halls Under the Mountain should look particularly impressive with Del Toro's love for dark locations, as well.

From what I've gathered, I believe that palette will also evolve, and by the time we reach the end of Movie 2, we should be in Jackson's palette. Think of it, that will be so interesting... using colour as a means of showing progress in the story, and movement towards darker times.

Having said that, I'm very happy Del Toro thinks The Hobbit is a "self-contained movie". A 3 1/2 hour long Hobbit should do wonders for the story.

Someone also mentioned in this thread (I'm sorry I'm not naming anyone, but I'm just working with all the pieces of info I remember) about the two-movie Hobbit as opposed to Hobbit + sprequel. (yes, I'm inventing the term, this one is the rare movie that's both prequel and sequel). The note you saw is probably confused. New Line still has the rights to both The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, and production can use anything they want from both stories and the Appendices, but not, as you mention, material such as The Quest for Erebor. Actually, from what we know, the second movie is legally mentioned as "Lord of the Rings prequel", thus being attached to the LotR rights, rather than The Hobbit ones.

I have rambled on a lot, so I'll just close it now. I'm really thrilled about all that's been said, and for me the one thing that would put the cherry on top of the sundae of this great week would be Christopher Lee's confirmation for movie 2, and the production's firm purpose of making him a shooting priority.

Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!

Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!


Apr 25 2008, 3:39pm

Views: 12545
The White Council

Of course it depends on what they actually include into the second movie, but considering what GDT said, it seems this title would be appropriate.

It's interesting in a way, because what we would learn in the second movie, could potentially give a new whole meaning to the Hobbit for non-readers. It could be a good surprise for them. Imagine this, a few small reference throughout the first movie concerning this mysterious necromancer in the south of Mirkwood. People will like the story, but I'm sure more than a few will feel the connection to the narrative of LOTR is rather small (No Sauron, the ring is not at stake).
Second movie comes and the grand scheme behind it all is revealed as we watch Gandalf in Dol Guldur...

Tol Eressea

Apr 25 2008, 3:46pm

Views: 12385
Good point.

They probably won't be filming yet, but if they are in the process of 'Hobbitifying' (?) the set we may not get to see it.


Apr 25 2008, 3:47pm

Views: 12492
Filming content, extra's, 2nd film ...

Long time lurker, first time poster ...

One of the questions that I am dying to have answered, is how the releases will be dealt with. One of the things I loved about how Peter did LOTR was he filmed so much it allowed for reams of additional scenes to be added to the Extended Edition DVD releases. Does the Jackson / GDT team intend to continue this with these two films ...? December releases would also be cool to have continuity.

Also, am I the only one that is really excited to see the second film visualized as I have spent years thinking / imagining the novels (The Silmarillion, The Hobbit, The LOTR) however I've not spent nearly that amount of time imaging the events that took place that will be brought to life in the second film. And while there is ample material to research, it will also be like reading a new book about Middle Earth ... yes?

Tol Eressea

Apr 25 2008, 3:51pm

Views: 12347

You points are important ones. I am confident they'll go with December releases, and that they'll do Extended Editions in the exact same fashion as the LotR. Thos emovies made so much money, they'll be following the recipe very closely for these two new movies.

About the second movie being like a new book, it has been suggested by Darkstone, I believe (sorry of I got this wrong) that there could actually be a novelization of that movie. A new literary adeventure in the Thrid Age. We shall see.

Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!

Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!

The Shire

Apr 25 2008, 4:01pm

Views: 12521
Oh, here we go again!!!

Well, I was beside myself this morning when I read the news and it was good I was at home then - hahaha - if not I too would have a ruined reputation (ah, who cares). I was just frustrated not to be able to call my friends who live in Canada because of the time difference (I am a Cannuk in UK since almost 2 years).

This is all so exciting!!! I love all this suspense and guessing before a movie and we have a couple of years of that to come! I was quite sad when the LOTR trilogy was over and there was just a faint hope for the Hobbit - and then with the lawsuit, it was ruined...But now we are back on the track and I find it absolutely thrilling that Guillemero keeps us posted here, personally. It is grand of him to do that.

The second movie is a mystery so far, but frankly, there is so much Middle Earth topic and material out there, that they shouldn't have any problems creating it. Hmmm, I wonder if that means that more of the LOTR characters will be back in it. Hmmm, I wonder if John Rhys Davies would endure more of the prosthetics he sweared never to put on again??? And I really hope that one day they might make the story of Luthien and Beren into a movie. It has loads of potential! But there I go too far for now I think!

I am looking forward to enjoy every minute of this!!!

The Shire

Apr 25 2008, 4:02pm

Views: 13031
Huffington Post WRONG: They say that the two movies will BOTH be based on the book...

Read the last statement:

Which is obviously wrong. "The Hobbit" does not cover all of that time and Guillermo even says: "’s an integral part of telling the story of those 50 years of history lost in the narrative"

I sent an email to them asking for them to correct it. Unfortunately it was too late for my blog MarketSaw - I actually thought there was hope for a third movie for awhile based solely on the normally reputable Huffington Post! Grrrr.

(This post was edited by jimdorey on Apr 25 2008, 4:04pm)

The Shire

Apr 25 2008, 4:05pm

Views: 12651
This is MAGICAL!

It seems the light of the Vala has shone upon us. I think we all agree that the upcoming films could not possibly bode better!! A wonderful, dedicated and extremely talented director you are, dearly beloved Mr. Del Toro, and we are most honoured to have you in our midst! Laugh

And with the return of Jackon&Welsh&Boyens, Sir Ian McKellen, Andy Serkis, Howard Shore and Richard Taylor, the set-up seems to be perfect!

I say: LET'S ROLL!!! Wink

L. Ron Halfelven
Grey Havens

Apr 25 2008, 4:14pm

Views: 12920
That would be best of all.

I don't mind staying on the grass and away from the plantings and construction if it means seeing a glimpse of the location turning back into Hobbiton!


Apr 25 2008, 4:18pm

Views: 12423
"from a different point of view"

Yeah- a very interesting statement. He's got to be talking about Gandalf's point of view.

He might be referring to discovering Thrain in the dungeons of Dol Guldur, or alternatively he could mean the whole attack on Dol Guldur and viewing the Quest for Erebor from Gandalf's point of view. It's maybe a bit much to conclude that Gandalf will definitely be the protagonist in the sequel film, but looks like he's going to feature lots.

     View my Hobbit Film Adaptation Discussion

Forum Admin / Moderator

Apr 25 2008, 4:19pm

Views: 12498
Hmmm Im a little worried

he says the trilogy is canon - so does this mean we get mutant hyenas instead of wargs againMadMadMadMad

As for the rest of the interview - sounds encouraging

I May be a scientist but I'm also a Ninja fencer!


Apr 25 2008, 4:22pm

Views: 9269
And maybe this time ...

... maybe ... the production team will agree to leave the plantings in the ground and the all of the set pieces in place after they complete their filming. Wouldn't it be great if the location could then live on as a more "finished" attraction, rather than a handful of concrete holes cut into the grassy hillside?

"In Hollywood the screenplay is a fire hydrant. And there's a line of dogs around the block." -- Frank Miller


Apr 25 2008, 4:35pm

Views: 9689

I like his description of the new films as having a 'golden' feel to them. I just know he's going to do a great job.

Departed from the old TORN a few years ago...

Well, I'm back. And still trying to get used to the new look :)


Apr 25 2008, 4:41pm

Views: 9198
Animatronics? Hmm...

It's a wonderful interview, with lots of good signs and encouragement, particularly about the bridge film. And it's far to early for anything to be set in stone.

But... I think that animatronics are often the lamest type of special effects on screen. Typically they look plastic rather than organic, are restricted in their movement and fail to have the life, animation and energy that a convincing onscreen creature needs. It's very difficult to see the technology being revolutionised in the next few years. I thought the pioneering work done in Lord of the Rings of using a live actor (Andy Serkis) to guide the CGI was a perfect match, and hope they'll stick to this.

Anyway, there's too much good news to dwell on this minor point. Just hope WETA set Guillermo along the best course for the film.

     View my Hobbit Film Adaptation Discussion


Apr 25 2008, 4:51pm

Views: 9128
I am SO glad I've listened to

del Toro's commentary on Pan's Labyrinth, because now I can actually hear his voice as I read his interview! I get the same safe feeling with him that I have with Peter Jackson. He's got integrity and savvy, but he's also still child-like enough that his imagination is free and articulate ;)

Quote for the second movie we sat down and worked it out. When we did this we got really excited because this second film is not a ‘tag on’, it’s not ‘filler’, it’s an integral part of telling the story of those 50 years of history lost in the narrative.

I can't help it! When I read this, I started crying all over again. I feel like I've run an emotional marathon; but I wouldn't change it for the world!

I KNEW IT! They're restoring Hobbiton! Part of me is bummed that tourists can't get in there since they planted for a whole year in advance for LotR, but the majority of me is SO THRILLED that the Shire will be alive again! *tears again*


When I become part of a world that I love, such as this, I really come with a lot of enthusiasm and hard work, and we know we are recreating and creating a world that is part of the mythos of millions of people and we will approach it as passionately and respectfully as it needs to be taken."

*still shaken and stirred* And all my dreams have come true.
Thank you Xoanon. This was a wonderful interview with an approach that addressed anything I was concerned about. And I appreciate so much that Mr. del Toro answered each with honesty, enthusiasm and an obvious understanding of what we needed to know. Obviously, he's talked deeply and often with our NZ Filmic Family and embraces the incredible union between Tolkien's works and these films and us :) I'm not worried at all now. Trust Peter and Guillermo. No problem. Except for one. Gotta figure out a new footer.

sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."

TORn's Observations Lists


Apr 25 2008, 5:01pm

Views: 9176
Ha ha

If those deflated ticks borrowed from Stars Wars posing as wargs are canon, well then I'm a monkey's uncle. Yuck. Crazy

"A dead thing can go with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it."

The Shire

Apr 25 2008, 5:25pm

Views: 9094
Wait and see...

GDT uses animatronics in a really cool way, check out "Samael" from the first Hellboy or some of the "reapers" from Blade 2.

You will not be dissapointed.


Registered User

Apr 25 2008, 5:31pm

Views: 9582
Ian Holm as Bilbo

While I agree that Ian Holm did a wonderful job as Biblo in LOTR, I'm afraid that he just does not work for The Hobbit. Unsure When Bilbo begins his journey he is supposed to be about the same age as when Frodo later began his journey. According to Ian Holm's bio, he was born in 1931, which would put him at around 77 years old. A pity, but I just don't see any way around this issue.


Apr 25 2008, 5:35pm

Views: 9232
I wonder -

- who's going to be the DP! That's the one question I longed for that was not answered by Xoanens adorable interview! (Thx again!)
The other question I wonder about is who's gonna be Bilbo. But I guess even Guillermo doesn't know that yet. ;)
Martin Freeman WOULD be great.But I'm very much open to anything GDT and PJ come up with. I completely believe in their artistic abilities!

EDIT: Oh - I wanted to add: I think the DP is going to be Guillermo Navarro. I'm pretty sure he will be, actually. GDT and Navarro have worked so often together (even on GDT's first, Cronos) and there is a trsut between them that I believe is very important for the crucial relationship of a cinematographer and a director. He would be great!!!! I Love Andrew's work very much - but I think I'd prefer to see Navarro light and shoot this particular film for this particular director - The Hobbit by GDT!

Raptos a diis homines dici ...

(This post was edited by BlueMan on Apr 25 2008, 5:41pm)

Kangi Ska

Apr 25 2008, 5:38pm

Views: 9002
There and Back Again

    Roads go ever ever on,
Over rock and under tree,
By caves where never sun has shone,
By streams that never find the sea;
Over snow by winter sown,
And through the merry flowers of June,
Over grass and over stone,
And under mountains of the moon.

Roads go ever ever on
Under cloud and under star,
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.
Eyes that fire and sword have seen
And horror in the halls of stone
Look at last on meadows green
And trees and hills they long have known.

'The Road Goes Ever On' by J.R.R.Tolkein

From the Hobbit:

It will be good to get back to the shire.

P.S. Those concerned about wargs please keep in mind,
Saruman was doing genetic experiments thus the Uruk Hai.
Those were not wild wargs but wargs "improved" by the fallen wizard.
I am sure the wild wargs are closer to being wolves.

Kangi Ska


Apr 25 2008, 6:13pm

Views: 9008
Practical Effects

Well, the faun in Pan's Labyrinth was a combination of facial animatronics, prosthetic make-up (applied to the great Doug Jones) and CGI (which painted out part of the actor's lower legs). Similar techniques were used on the Pale Man in the same film. Looked pretty flawless in both instances.

"They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." -- E.A. Poe

(This post was edited by Voorhas on Apr 25 2008, 6:14pm)


Apr 25 2008, 6:20pm

Views: 9193
Yeah, the Wargs were one of my few disappointments with the Trilogy ...

But the good news is, PJ didn't like how they turned out either. He said (I belive on the DVD commentary) that he was disappointed with the whole Warg sequence and that he didn't like how the creature design turned out. But the production was under crazy time and money constraints at that point in they had to nip some corners.

So that means he'll have a great opportunity for a do-over with Wargs in The Hobbit. Wink

Because this time they're working with considerably bigger budgets (the same $300 million budget, but they're making one fewer movie) and they seem to be taking a lot longer in pre-production. And I'm sure they learned LOTS of other tough lessons on the LOTR shoot that they'll be applying to this one!

"In Hollywood the screenplay is a fire hydrant. And there's a line of dogs around the block." -- Frank Miller


Apr 25 2008, 6:27pm

Views: 8914
really BIG news!

WOW! Its so good! I'm a new here, though I 've read this forum for some days. But this is exscelent, esp. about Sir Ian! I like him as Gandalf so much!

One Ring to rule them all,
one Ring to find them,
oneRing to bring them all,
and in darkness bind them!
A Elbereth Gilthoniel,
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!


Apr 25 2008, 7:14pm

Views: 9083
Okay, what the heck is the sprequel going to be about then?

I'm seriously confused now... so you're saying they can't film/adapt the Quest of Erebor, even though a lighter version is in the LOTR appendixes? What the heck is the sprequel going to be about then? What sort of advanture will it be telling? I want explanations people!


Apr 25 2008, 7:36pm

Views: 9186
Do they have the rights?... do that? Creating a new book based off a movie, which itself can only be made based of of rights for a specific purpose. I am, admittedly, ignorant of all the legal minutia of the contracts involved, but unless it were approved by The Estate and Tolkien's publishers I would think this would be a rather tricky copyrights issue.

Anyway, the possibility is News to me, and this is just my initial reaction. :)

-mwirkk :)


Apr 25 2008, 7:49pm

Views: 9356
Two words I would pile on here...


-mwirkk :)

Tol Eressea

Apr 25 2008, 8:00pm

Views: 9207
Thunk! Wow oh wow oh wow!

That interview just got me so incredibly excited about the movies!

I've been watching the Hobbit development with mild eagerness up 'til now, but now ohmyohmyohmy I'm all on board!



Apr 25 2008, 8:02pm

Views: 8997

I went mad when i heard the GDT was directing but to have Sir Ian McKellan and Andy Serkis back makes the prospect of the films so much better! I can't wait!!!!

Take what you can, give nothing back!

Tol Eressea

Apr 25 2008, 9:21pm

Views: 8976
It's all speculation

That started here in the forums, it was said that if they have the rights to license action figures, PEZ dispensers, etc... they *could* have the rights to release a movie tie-in.

Of course it's tricky with the Estate and all... but knowing what we know, it's a possibility.

Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!

Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!

Tol Eressea

Apr 25 2008, 9:26pm

Views: 9043
Oh if it's in the Appendices...

They CAN do it. It should be a tricky thing. They *could* get into troubleif the use anything not expressly said in the Appendices but used in other works, such as The Quest for Erebor, just to give an example: if there's two pieces of dialogue (one in the appendices and the other one in Erebor), they'd have to stick to the Appendices version, for using the Erebor dialogue would be using material for a written work they do not have rights to.

It's really tricky... but they should do fine with it.

Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!

Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!


Apr 25 2008, 9:50pm

Views: 9019
Liked Pan's Labyrinth effects

I enjoyed the effects in Pan's Labyrinth, especially the integration of CGI with physical effects. I'd say the core of what made the faun and the Pale Man successful and 'alive' was like you say the great live actors performance.

The thing about The Hobbit is that the creatures are much less humanoid than these. Smaug can't related directly to an onset actor, and needs an amazing range of snake like movement and part human/part reptilian expressions and acting. CGI seems like a much more flexible tool for this to me. Spiders and eagles move in ways that animatronic techniques would find difficult to replicate. Perhaps the trolls and Beorn would be more suitable for this approach.

I guess my impression of animatronics is a bit dated, but the unconvincing effects in films like Jurassic Park and TV sci-fi have not sold it to me.

     View my Hobbit Film Adaptation Discussion


Apr 25 2008, 10:30pm

Views: 9012
Chance for Sweet Revenge!?!

If they *were* to do some Production Diaries (I really, really hope GdT, PJ and TORn are up for another round!), PJ could get back at Gandalf for his disruptive behaviour back in 2004 (KKPD#36) by having Lumpy (KKPD#22) dog his tracks when he thinks no one's watching while he's off cavorting with the White Council. >8P

-mwirkk :)

Forum Admin / Moderator

Apr 25 2008, 10:40pm

Views: 8876
*breaks open a box of Depends*

Anyone else about to wet their pants already? Sly

Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


Apr 25 2008, 10:48pm

Views: 9070
My biggest concern now...

..., apart from concern over the outcome of the current talks between NL and TE, is that they get Christopher Lee back. His, I am anticipating, is going to be a crucial role in the 2nd movie (can't call it "bridge" anymore, I hear). I never has any doubts that McKellen and Serkis would be back. I think Alan Lee is pretty keen to be involved again also. Likewise, I would like to see John Howe come back -- I don't know if he's come out recently with his ideas about that, but unless he's already booked for the next 4 years I can't imagine he wouldn't. I would also like to see them re-offer to Ted Naismith the opportunity to get involved this time.

-mwirkk :)


Apr 25 2008, 11:01pm

Views: 9160
Pan was "animatronic"

as was Yoda in a way.

You could have knocked me out with a feather when I read that Pan was not CGI, but Doug Jones in a suit with animatronic facial features. Looking back on it, there is not way that Pan could ever have been CGI. He moved like a real creature.

I think what GDT means by " animatronic" is to bring back and revitalize the sadly lost art of movie puppetry, but of course with a modern twist. (If Jim Henson were still alive, he'd have tears in his eyes.Looks like PL won't be the only film I'll be re-watching..time to dig out my 25th anniversary edition of "The Dark Crystal" too! Smile And I am sure the result will knock our socks off! It will be amazing....if PJ "invented" the art of live-action. to mo-cap with Andy Serkis, in a sense enhancing CGI technology, Del Toro will (re-)invent a new art form of "puppetry" and CGI Yes, I KNOW animatroics is not the same as puppetry but in essence that's what it tries to be, and sometimes is.(Interesting if the technolgy had been used 28 yrs ago with Yoda...instead of him being pure puppet....has it really been that long?Crazy),

There is a new technolgy of CGI immersing real actors that is struggling to be born...aided by the increasing conversion of film to digital..."Beowulf" is evidence of this. I wonder if Del Toro is in a sesne reacting to that, and that if he is successful in his effrots, we could witness a revisionsm in film slightily back to favoring actors and the "human element" again.

Not to knock PJ OF COURSE....I mean, only what his successors have done, and the what they are trying to do..the direction film seems to be going in.

Reading Doug Jones's website is VERY informative. He has a FANTASTIC can link to it on

Oh me, oh my, SO MUCH SO MUCH!!! Where do I start?????

Frodo Hoy

Apr 25 2008, 11:09pm

Views: 8800

I read the interview.

This is the alpha point (as in beginning) for me in feeling jacked and pumped about this film. GDT is a good fit, there will be consistency with the Gandalf and Gollum characters, there is an affirmation and commitment for continuity. Yet, there are still thoughts of innovation and thoughts of a different feel - more golden. It sounds like a good plan to me - count me as one more thrilled fan.

"From some way off, or so it seemed, he thought he heard a cry: 'Hoy! Frodo! Hoy!' .. 'Frodo! Hoy!' came the thin voices out of the mist."

Fog on the Barrow-downs


Apr 25 2008, 11:18pm

Views: 9963

sorry, but that probably would not happen, for the same reason that we do not have a permanent museum to store the LOTR artifacts in.

The Tolkien Estate is (justifiably) worried about the focus of the Tolkien legacy shifting to NZ/ films instead of Tolkien's England/books. And in this matter I agree with the Estate. It's sad, I know, but I completely see their reasoning. it would be a terrible thing if Rivendell ever became a bigger toruist attraction than the pastoral locales of Tolkien's boyhood. In today's post-literary climate, where books matter less and ess b/c the world moves faster and faster, that is a very real danger. (I wonder what is the ratio of Saltzburg tourists for The Sound of Music vs. Mozart's first home. Not many for the latter, according to what I read; and this is 40+ yrs later, the same timeframe that LOTR will be around....(the LOTR cinematic legacy may pan out like that of TSOM.)


Apr 25 2008, 11:25pm

Views: 9669
Also....."lost scenes" from FOTR

He could be referring to some of Gandalf's recollections from "The Council of Elrond." (still one f my favorite LOTR chapters.)

Perhaps told as this chapter is in the book, more from an Elvish/Elrond POV. (The film is from Frodo's POV.) We could see flashbacks to Elrond's memory of marching out with the Last Alliance host.

Also, if you are tying events in neatly to LOTR, a "natural progression", than many of Gandalf's recalled events leading up to the War would make perfect sense onscreen....the capture of Gollum, Aragorn leading him to Lorien, and the Elves' leniency with him that leads to his ecape. Just as PJ showed us His escape from Orthanc, etc....GDT could build on that somehow. (OMG....OMG...he may call Viggo back, and we'll see Aragorn and Gollum onscreen together.....*THUNK* . This would be pperfectly permissble from the TE's POV, he is of course Aragorn and not Thorongil at this no invention.....(HAVE To go back and re-read "The Council of Elrond"...OMG....I'm going to faint.....(Might be interesting to see Viggo go "Disney" again after baring all....heheLaughEvil. OH no....I am getting sinful thoughts...must stop)

(This post was edited by Sunflower on Apr 25 2008, 11:28pm)


Apr 25 2008, 11:31pm

Views: 9673
Geez, the man is becoming addicted to this place already?:)

He is officially a TORNsib now!

Oh, so much, so much, oh how will I have a social life now this weekend????

This is so surreal....must take it all in.....

(This post was edited by Sunflower on Apr 25 2008, 11:38pm)


Apr 25 2008, 11:38pm

Views: 9692
In which case you must be our spy, L.Ron. *snert*

Our own burglar, methinks?

One of many. We know you have it in you! EvilSly

PS. oops? Did that show up in the right place? Oh kow who it was addressed toBlush)

(This post was edited by Sunflower on Apr 25 2008, 11:41pm)


Apr 25 2008, 11:46pm

Views: 9597
I agree...I'm also skeptical of animatronics

I'm not so sure animatronics is the right way to go for The Hobbit.

I haven't seen Pan's Labyrinth, and it's been a while since I've seen Hellboy, but somehow, my brain picks out patterns of movements from animatronics and puppets, even when well done, and totally removes me from the film. Yoda in Ep.I for instance, is much more distracting to me than CGI Yoda in Ep. II and III.

Didn't they use both animatronics and CGI for Treebeard? Compare him with the Balrog and Oliphaunts. Which has more convincing, realistic movements? A few shots of Treebeard just looked way too mechanical.

Whatever they used for the Balrog, Oliphaunts, etc. is what should be used in The Hobbit, in my opinion. Just think how those techniques have improved in the more than ten years that will have passed between these productions.

Círdan saw further and deeper than any other in Middle-earth, and he welcomed Mithrandir at the Grey Havens, knowing whence he came and whither he would return.
'Take this ring, master,' he said, 'for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill.'

Elrond Lover
The Shire

Apr 26 2008, 1:13am

Views: 9726
Who will be Elrond? *Fretting*

Mr. Del Toro:

I hope you are reading these! I didn't know much about you or how you would handle the new films, but after reading your interview here, I am not only relieved but extremely excited! Ian McKellan? Yay! A "must" in my eyes.

Oh please, oh please sign Hugo Weaving for Elrond. I know it may take just a bit of work to make him "ageless" but he is the quintessential Elrond for many fans!

I am so looking forward to these films. Seeing the picture of you reverently holding The Hobbit told me a lot! Knowing Peter Jackson and Weta will be involved again set my mind at ease.

Hugo Weaving! Please!!!!!

ringers rock!

Apr 26 2008, 1:16am

Views: 9638
the dvds will be handled with extra care

so as to provide as much profit as possible. If our friends ignore or discourage our love of this story, you can bet yer hairy feet the distributors and producers will enable us for life.

Ouch. Fell off the planet. What's a girl gotta do to get some magic rope around here?

The Shire

Apr 26 2008, 1:32am

Views: 9574
GDT Director

I was not sure about GDT as director at first. However, after reading this interview and hearing his points of view and seeing how his enthusiam shined threw, I am excited!

The Shire

Apr 26 2008, 1:56am

Views: 9846
GDT Hobbit Director

I was lukewarm at first to GDT as the Hobbit director. However, upon reading the TORN interview today I see he will be true to the spirt of these films and it's easy to see he brings great passion to the project!


Apr 26 2008, 3:18am

Views: 9505

There haven't been a lot of really successful animatronics performances in film (ET? "Bruce" the shark in Jaws?). Maybe they're trying to separate Smaug from the onslaught of CGI movie dragons we've seen in recent years...and give the ol' boy a bit more physical reality.

No doubt they'll revert to CGI for long shots and action scenes.

"They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." -- E.A. Poe

(This post was edited by Voorhas on Apr 26 2008, 3:19am)

Superuser / Moderator

Apr 26 2008, 5:33am

Views: 9513
*awards prize for funniest avatar*

You had me laughing out loud at that one. Laugh

Welcome to TORN!

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.

Ataahua's stories

Registered User

Apr 26 2008, 9:27am

Views: 9621

It's comforting to know that both films are in safe hands!

Elrond Lover
The Shire

Apr 26 2008, 11:28am

Views: 9460
Tee hee!

Yours gave me quite a giggle too!

Thanks for the welcome.


Registered User

Apr 26 2008, 12:25pm

Views: 9624
Great news!

Hi guys! Another newbie here!

It's great news that the films are going ahead. I guess for the second movie there'll be much reading of stuff like the Unfinished Tales and Christopher Tolkien's History of Middle Earth sequence! I'm a big fan of Del Toro's Spanish language stuff and reckon his visual sensibility is perfect for The Hobbit!

Who knows . . . maybe, one day, we'll get to see Quenta Silmarillion and The Children of Húrin turned into movies too! :)

Peredhil lover

Apr 26 2008, 12:30pm

Views: 9422

But as much as I'd like it, they can't use Silmarillion, HoME or UT, because Tolkien never sold the film rights for that. He not even lived to see them published. They are only allowed to use Hobbit and LotR, sadly. And I doubt that will change any time soon, considering Christopher Tolkiens attitude in this matter.

Anyway, it is exciting, isn't it? And to think we're only at the beginning of four years of fun and excitement and rumours ...

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

The Shire

Apr 26 2008, 1:45pm

Views: 10060
I've been worried about this for a while...

I've always thought Elijah was too young for Frodo. Frodo got the ring when he was 33, and left the shire at age fifty. Factoring in the effects of the ring, and differences between hobbits and humans, I figured a 35 year old actor would be most appropriate.

For Bilbo... he was fifty, but no ring, so... (sigh) yeah, I guess Ian Holm IS too old. I just hope they don't go too young. There's a lot of natural comedy in the hobbit because Bilbo is an overweight, middle-aged guy being thrown into an adventure he's not ready for. I like all the actors people are buzzing about, especially Martin Freeman, but I think maybe they're just too young...


Apr 26 2008, 2:17pm

Views: 9798
What I think on Bilbo

as Trilogy is Canon, it must be Ian Holm there. Remember the Prologue to FotR when Bildo is finding the Ring? And actually Mr Holm suites perfectly for this role. But nevertheless I believe they'll do their best to find a perfect Bilbo. At least, I do hope.

One Ring to rule them all,
one Ring to find them,
oneRing to bring them all,
and in darkness bind them!
A Elbereth Gilthoniel,
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!

Registered User

Apr 26 2008, 6:35pm

Views: 9607
on the plumpness of hobbits

I'm with you on the overweight issue for Bilbo! That is definitely part of the humor of the Hobbit--this chubby little hobbit going off on his Hero's Journey! I did think all the hobbits in the LOTR movies were a bit!

Sr. Staff

Apr 26 2008, 8:11pm

Views: 9689
exactly! That would be amazing! Maybe if we ask very nicely...?!

After, we are not just any old tourists now are we?! Wink I'm so excited to read that we really WILL be going back to 'our' version of ME; can't wait to revisit it. Hurrah hurrah and thrice hurrah! I love the Shire so much - can't wait to see it back to life. And this time I bet they will leave up alot more of the set - if NL will allow it!

'There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of my fridge...'

'You never know what will happen next, when once you get mixed up with TORnsibs and their friends.'

Sr. Staff

Apr 26 2008, 8:15pm

Views: 9381
well, so long as he remembers to keep in some breakdance fighting and shield surfing, we'll be fine...! //


'There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of my fridge...'

'You never know what will happen next, when once you get mixed up with TORnsibs and their friends.'


Apr 26 2008, 11:45pm

Views: 10305
Post deleted by Xoanon



Apr 26 2008, 11:47pm

Views: 9577
We trust - we trust!

It's SO great to hear from you.
Thank you - thank you!

Registered User

Apr 26 2008, 11:55pm

Views: 9547
bring on the monsters!

Welcome Guillermo! Very eager to see the energy and palette you bring to these worlds. But especially eager to see the monsters.


(This post was edited by DrawRide on Apr 27 2008, 12:02am)

Sr. Staff

Apr 26 2008, 11:56pm

Views: 9634
Sir, you are an artist and a gentleman!

We're honoured by your words and I'm honoured by you responding to my tongue-in-cheek remark about Legolas' shield surfing! Wink Speaking personally, I am SO excited to return to Middle Earth in your hands; for me, Pan's Labyrinth was a film which was beautiful, heartbreaking and so daring - having the courage to tell a 'fairy tale' in such an adult, dark and thoughtful way was breathtaking. I am thrilled to think that you will be helming these two new films.

I cannot speak for all but you certainly have my trust and support - and that of most of us here, I am sure! One of our regular posters, grammaboodawg, has the footer 'Trust Peter! I think now we must add to that 'Trust Guillermo!' Your friends are with you, Mr del Toro! We look forward to sharing this adventure - and thank you for trusting US! Smile

'There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of my fridge...'

'You never know what will happen next, when once you get mixed up with TORnsibs and their friends.'


Apr 26 2008, 11:57pm

Views: 10244

In Reply To
and in re-reading THE HOBBIT just recently I was quite moved by discovering, through Bilbo's eyes the deceit of possession and hoarding and the banality of war- whether in the Western Front or at a Valley in Middle Earth.

Bilbo does have an amazing character. It can seem light and superficial but then he does or says something utterly profound. I think it relates to his ability to hold, or I should say resist The Ring for 60 years. But man is it hard to define ! Welcome btw! and let me say a heart-felt thanks for allowing us to feel, just a little, part of this experience.

An Ent juggling spikey things ?


Apr 27 2008, 12:03am

Views: 23085
Quite the contrary-

I shouldnt have posted so hastily- I noticed many errors in the text- I'm ashamed. I corrected it a touch, but the syntax and perhaps the spelliing, elude me at this hour (1 am, London time) so here it ia again, with new errors at least...

Thank you all for a warm welcome.

Allow me to introduce myself quite summarily - I was born 43 years ago in Guadalajara, a large city in Mexico.

Since the age of 4 I became an avid reader and collector of books; manuscripts, pamphlets, first editions, small press or worn-down paperbacks... they all find a home at my library which has grown so cumbersome and obtrusive that I had to move to a separate home from the family one...

For many decades my main area of interest has been horror fiction: Algernon Blackwood, Arthur Machen, MR James, LeFanu, etc and classic Fairy tales and literature about the engines of Myth: unabridged Grimm, Andersen, Wilde, Bettelheim, Tatar, etc

Now and then I indulge in Science Fiction (not hardware oriented but more humanistic things) and thus I count Bradbury, Ellison, Sturgeon and Matheson amongst my favorites.

My area of interest gets much narrower when we deal with another genre... the genre that is shelved under Fantasy.

I have read Moorcock, Clark Ashton Smith, Lord Dunsany, Lloyd Alexander, Fritz Leiber and a few others. At the age of 11 I read THE HOBBIT and it enchanted me as only a classic Fairy Tale can- it had enough darkness and dread and emotion to make a profound impression that lasted me until now. Beorn, Mirkwood, the Wargs, Smaug, the Riddles in the Dark, they all have lived in me for many years...

Nevertheless at that early age, the rest of Tolkien proved to contain Geography and Genealogy too complex for my prepubescent brain...

I was never propelled into an aleatory addiction to sub-genres like Sword & Sorcery or indiscriminate fantasies about magical this or that- Like any other genre or subgenre there's a great abundance that makes it hard to discern when a new "trilogy" or "chronicle" comes from as genuine a place as Tolkien's or derives from genuine fervor -religious or otherwise- like C.S. Lewis' did.

And here I am now: reading like a madman to catch up with a whole new land, a continent of sorts- a Cosmology created by brilliant philologist turned Shaman.

As if he grasped an existing universe outside our Platonic cave, Tolkien channels an entire world, weaving expertly from myth and lore. The oustanding virtue is that all this scholarly erudition doesn't reduce his tales to mere Taxidermy. He achieves an Alchemy all of his own: he writes new life in the freshly sculpted clay of his creatures.

I have, through the years become familiar with the very roots of Tolkien's myths and the roots of Fafhrd or Elric or Hyperborea and many a time I have relished the intricate ways in which demonic wolves, shape-shifter and spindly-limbed pale warriors can be woven into those many tales that become, at the end, the single tale, the single saga- that of what is immortal in us all.

In creating Pan's Labyrinth I drank deep of the most rigid form of Fairy Lore and tried to contextualize the main recurrent motifs in an instinctive rhyme between the world of fantasy and the delusions of War and Politics (the grown man's way of playing make-believe) and in re-reading THE HOBBIT just recently I was quite moved by discovering, through Bilbo's eyes the illusory nature of possession, the sins of hoarding and the banality of war- whether in the Western Front or at a Valley in Middle Earth. Lonely is the mountain indeed.

And now, I'm here- about to live amongst you for many years to come and it is my dearest hope to push and expand the filmic incarnation of these Myths: Emotionally, visually and in their resonance within all of us. Whising me luck won't be enough- therefore I invite you to join us in another beautiful place created by on Parker Lyons, namely-

-and to become acquainted with my many flaws and the error of my ways, for I am -much like a Hobbit or a foul Dwarf- a mere mortal facing an enormous task ahead.

May the task become lighter by receiving the blessing of your trust .

Yr Obt Svt.

Guillermo del Toro

N.E. Brigand

Apr 27 2008, 12:09am

Views: 14463
No worries!

Thank you for taking the trouble to re-post, but please don't worry about it -- there is no expectation of typo-free posting at TORN!

We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Apr. 21-27 for "The Uruk-hai".

Optimus Prime
Registered User

Apr 27 2008, 12:12am

Views: 14586
RE: Quite the contrary

You have Peter's trust, Guillermo. And with that, I'm pretty sure you have all of ours! We're happy to have you aboard to lead us on this new, earlier journey!

In the meantime, I myself, can't wait for Hellboy II!



(This post was edited by Optimus Prime on Apr 27 2008, 12:17am)

Superuser / Moderator

Apr 27 2008, 12:18am

Views: 13881
I admit I'm intrigued

to see how a storyteller with your background knowledge of faerie and mythology will retell The Hobbit - and I'm very much looking forward to seeing your film on screen. Good luck with this project! And as a Kiwi, I hope you and your family enjoy your time in New Zealand. :)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.

Ataahua's stories

Forum Admin / Moderator

Apr 27 2008, 12:38am

Views: 14060
Kia ora and haere mai!

Which is Maori for "greetings and welcome", though kia ora has many more layers of meaning than mere greetings.

We are honoured to have you here on TORn, and I'm delighted that you're going to base yourself in New Zealand for such a long time!

My writing (including The Passing of Mistress Rose)

Do we find happiness so often that we should turn it off the box when it happens to sit there?

- A Room With a View


Apr 27 2008, 1:17am

Views: 14097
*hands GdT trust on a plate*

No worries here. Very pleased and looking forward to what you create for us!

"The person who strives for security will never be free. The person who believes that she's found security will never reach paradise."
- Tom Robbins

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967

Registered User

Apr 27 2008, 1:41am

Views: 13971
Hi there!

Since this is my first post on this forum I will like to say hello to you all, and to GDT I would like to say I couldn’t be happier knowing that you ( Heart your work) and Peter would directing the Hobbit. Cool

As I’m not an expert in Hobbit/LOTR subject Blush just a film and collector geek from Norway I’m going to stay low and listening …just wanted to say hi. Wink



Apr 27 2008, 2:10am

Views: 14080
My goodness!

HOW are you going to finish the last stages of HB2 with reading TORN? Wink j/'s an honor to have you here.

No need to talk of trust here.....I have that. But I would like to note that for some others who are not as familar (yet) with you or your work, it will seem hard for them to believe that you can fill the formidable shoes of Peter, Fran and Philippa.
We know you can do it, and it is for them to become familiar with the worlds you have rendered so far onscreen....worlds full of "beauty and terror and meaning", (as W.H. Auden wrote in his review of LOTR...I beleive it was him, though I could be wrong)

Allow me to note, though, that (as Gramma and others have said) that adapting Tolkien is a VERY formidable task, and only the greatest of artists in modern cinematic history are capable of doing it successfully. This is a job for the Greats of the Cinematic Peathon: a Cocteau, a Spieberg, a Coppola, a Kubrick, a Hitchcock, a Kurasowa, a Miazaki, a Ray.......and yes, a Peter Jackson. (there are many other Greats of the Silver Screen I could name, but to list them all would take up too much space!) .
(Pan's Labyrinth reminded me so much of Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast, which one of my all-time favorite films. It had that same feeling of the Gateway to the Fantastical leading into a realm that was not as far away as we think. And it put you, in my mind, on the path to becoming one of the Greats.)

The eyes of the world will be upon you these next four years (or five?) and we have VERY high expectations. People like myself who are familiar with your work so far, know and understand that you are up to the task. But Tolkien fans are, either way around, a passionate bunch and we guard the Professor's legacy VERY closely. We welcome you, but I should warn you that (I have to be honest) even after all these years, there are many passionate defenders of the books, who take fidelity to them VERY seriously. There are those who will not hestitate to raise questions and air opinions. Some of these people have done so already, as you have doubtless now become aware. And they will continue to do so, in the months and years ahead. We are fully aware, in light of the current circumstances of the lawsuit brought by the Tolkien Estate, of the graciousness by which we have been allowed to see these stories made possible ion film. So,we cherish them highly.

So: the eyes of the world will be upon you for the next few years, Sir. We hope you begin to realize the magnitude of the task you have set yourself to.Someday, it will sink in. I am sure that Peter Jackson has filled you in on just how formidable a task it will be, in all ways. But I for one know that you can do it.

Oh, and BTW: I have been a longtime lurker on your excellent site. This site has quite a history behind it, as Peter has no doubt made you aware. Another excellent place to find out about the history of this website is film scholar Kristin Thompson's wonderful book The Frodo Franchise. She has a great website too.

Thanks for taking the time from your busy schedule to post, and good luck with HB2!

(This post was edited by Sunflower on Apr 27 2008, 2:18am)

The Shire

Apr 27 2008, 2:20am

Views: 13693
You Have My Trust!

You have my trust, Guillermo.

And don't worry one bit about typos around here! You're gonna be far too busy to worry about such a thing!

It's a geat honor that you'd join the community here. Thank you so much.


Apr 27 2008, 2:29am

Views: 14096
Geez Louise, did I just write that?:)

I hope nobody chews me out for that post....the Edit feature timed out....*shrinks in her chair* (if Del Toro reads that...Dios mio....BlushCrazyLaugh)

well, I am honest, I DO think he will be one of the Kurasowa was to his country and Coppola and Spielberg were to ours, etc.)

And I DO think that with LOTR , PJ elevated himself to one of the cinematic Greats.

If anyone wants to flame me for that opinion, please PM me. Sly


Apr 27 2008, 2:44am

Views: 14242
We've been waiting for you.

Isn't it amazing what each of us here has gone through to bring us to this moment in the evolution of Tolkien's stories? Just today, I was picturing you becoming the newest member of that New Zealand filmic family. It has to be such a unique experience to step into their world and find that you fit right in :) It must be surreal, at the same time, to also be facing us... this madly opinionated and enthusiastic group of fans with all sorts of questions, ideas and expectations.

As a fan myself of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit for 37 years, who saw the LotR films at the theatre an average of 58 times (each), and having seen Pan's Labyrinth (with your commentary) and watched Hellboy more times than I can count, I'm delighted to have you as director of these films! Peter Jackson's confidence in you and what you can achieve together is all I need to believe that we're all in for one fantastic adventure!

Thank you for visiting us here. I think you know it's a thrill to count you as an official TORn sibbie (sibling). Sorry, there's no escape. You're one of US now!

Welcome :D

sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."

TORn's Observations Lists

The Shire

Apr 27 2008, 3:14am

Views: 13926
It's true

No, Sunflower. I think it's honest and true. Fans, especially posting anonymously behind their computer screens, can be extremely critical. Guillermo may hear that a change of his to the book "sucks". That he's destroyed the childhood of every fan. That Bilbo would never do this or that. Whatever. It's the way fans get on forums about many things. I hope everyone around here is able to keep it civil all the way through the 2nd movie.

At the same time, i'm sure Guillermo Del Toro understands that the series is precious to fans. I think he'll follow his heart in doing what he feels best for his film with that in mind. The same way that Fran, Phillipa and Peter did, and we have to understand that some things that work well in a book may not work the best in a movie. They made some changes that might not have been popular with some book purirsts. But i'll be darned, they made the movies as entertaining, dramatic and satisfying as they could be, i feel. No, Frodo isn't "supposed to" tell Sam to go home. But what an effective change that was for the movie. Easily one of my favorite scenes. So, it's best to just do what Guillermo asks, trust him, and let it play out on screen in 2010.

In Reply To
I hope nobody chews me out for that post....the Edit feature timed out....*shrinks in her chair* (if Del Toro reads that...Dios mio....BlushCrazyLaugh)

well, I am honest, I DO think he will be one of the Kurasowa was to his country and Coppola and Spielberg were to ours, etc.)

And I DO think that with LOTR , PJ elevated himself to one of the cinematic Greats.

If anyone wants to flame me for that opinion, please PM me. Sly


Apr 27 2008, 3:20am

Views: 14129

A post like THAT, addressed to GDT, and I made a mistake. I just realized that it was C.S. Lewis who wrote that quote, not Auden.

*oh God*

*I am going to go hide in a box now*

The Shire

Apr 27 2008, 3:31am

Views: 13913
Thank you

Thank you for being so open with the fans! Every time you confide your thoughts to us, I become more certain that you are going to do great things with these films. But I must say I'm a little jealous, since you'll be burrying yourself in Tolkien for quite some time! I love what you've said about the second film. I think it's quite brilliant. There is such an endless wealth of events happening in this time period, that the film will only be limited by your imagination. This could be an incredibly powerful story on its own. I'm just sad that you won't be allowed to utilize Tolkien's other works.

(to everyone) Unfinished Tales has some really great moments that would be perfect for the film, don't you think? Part three of "the hunt for the ring" contains one of my favorite scenes, a discussion between Gandalf and Saruman about pipeweed and hobbits, ending with a cryptic gesture by Gandalf, hinting that he knows what's going on in Saruman's mind. It would be perfect in the movie (though it takes place before the Hobbit), since it shows so effectively the relationship between the two wizards and the state of Saruman's mind in those years... but oh well, with all the stuff in the appendix, it'll still be fantastic. We all believe in you, Mr. Del Toro!

(This post was edited by Telperion313 on Apr 27 2008, 3:32am)


Apr 27 2008, 3:35am

Views: 14190
Well, honestly....

(guessing that he's probably not on here as I write this...but you never know! We'll have to watch ourselves now!Tongue)

I have to say that if you have been lurking the past few months, you'll have noted my positive opinions of GDT. I was never skeptical of him...just the Studios. When I first heard that PJ was not going to direct, I was QUITE upset. Then, as the lawsuits and writer's strike and shenanigans grew worse, I resigned myself to the fact that he would not be directing...but Del Toro's name popped in my mind. I saw PL when it was out in the theaters in the fall of 2006, I believe. That film knocked me six ways to qas one of the great cinematic experences of my life (subtitles and all.) I grew more and more excited and as time passed, began to grow quite excited.

But I have to be honest about his latest post. Did anyone get the feeling that he felt there, that he needed to "prove" himself? I think he's been doing a lot of surfing the past few days (sounds like it), and has had time to read the posts of the vocal doubters. Thus, he poured himself out in a great little film essay. Th't's the way he usually discusses film...(the DVD commentary for his films, but esp for PL, he talks just like this. IMO, this is what a DVD commentary by Hitchcock or Kurasowa or Cocteau would be like, if they were alive and made DVD.s More's the pity they're not.) Oh, and I forgot to mention Ingmar Bergman???? (oddly enough, LOTr at its best makes me think of him.)

So his beginning to post on here is not only a sign of the great guy he is, it's great politics as well. I wonder if he wonders if we will ever get over the "wow" factor and address him with challenging questions. I have faith in him, but would you say I was presumptuous in trying to "prepare" him for the controversy that may come down the road? I am just being honest.... I happen to be a "PJ supporter" (as many are on this board), but there are others who are not. IN ANY way at all. There aren't many on this site, but I can think of other sites that would be far less merciful. (Should I direct GDT to TORC? He he)

(This post was edited by Sunflower on Apr 27 2008, 3:38am)

Finding Frodo
Tol Eressea

Apr 27 2008, 3:45am

Views: 13928

Welcome to TORn, Mr. Del Toro, and welcome again, I say. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed even by the fact of your posting, not to mention the length and depth of your posts. Thank you for your presence and thoughtful attention. Though I have not read many of the authors you mentioned, I do share your love for fairy tales and of course The Hobbit in particular. Like you, I also failed in my first few attempts to read The Lord of the Rings when I was young, though I have read it many times since then!

Thank you also for the invitation to visit your website. I ventured over and explored a little bit. I especially enjoyed your comments on fairy stories (and I love the parallel with JRRT) and the pages from your sketchbook. So far, "Pan's Labyrinth" is the only movie of yours that I have seen, but I plan to check out some of the others while waiting for Hobbit news. I'm very excited that things are getting underway at last!

Where's Frodo?


Apr 27 2008, 4:02am

Views: 14062

When I say "PJ supporter" I mean that I am in the camp that thinks PJ did a fantastic job with the films and that his version was probably the best that Hollywood could have offered at the time (as opposed to those who think that someone else could have done a better job.) Which makes me a great PJ fan.

It does NOT mean, Kapoof, that I support PJ over GDT, for sentimental reasons or anything else. "PJ supporter" is a term commonly used in arguments with Tolkien book purists.

I am just as excited about Del Toro as you are. Just trying to warn him about the ones who will be critics!


Apr 27 2008, 4:09am

Views: 13967
In New Zealand there is a Maori proverb which says:

He aha te mea nui o te ao?
He tangata! He tangata! He tangata!

Which means:
what is the most important thing in the world?
It is people! It is people! It is people!

Thank you sir, for the genuine care and consideration you are showing to the people who have so much invested in the making of these films.


Apr 27 2008, 5:15am

Views: 13953
Thank you

Wow, thanks so much for another post, Mr. Del Toro! It still just stuns me to see you here! Makes me feel so close to the real happenings and magic of this movie that's coming about. And as others have said, you have no need to worry about typos or spelling mistakes... we've all been through it, and we're all quite capable of overlooking things like that. And you've got much bigger things to be concerned about right now! lol

And, again like the others have already said, you have my trust. You've already proven yourself a great deal, by really showing us your true, heartfelt dedication. So I trust you with this task of making The Hobbit as we would all like to see it made. Smile

Peredhil lover

Apr 27 2008, 5:40am

Views: 13969
Don't worry, Sunflower

It was a nice post, honest and open. And you complimented him, so what's the problem?

As for fans - I suppose GDT is probably aware that these can be difficult, that some will flame the movies and some love them, as it is with every movie. Or do you know *one* movie where *everyone* was of the exact same opinion about it? Wink

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

Peredhil lover

Apr 27 2008, 5:47am

Views: 13944

No matter the purpose, it is great that GDT is taking the time to read and post here at all. I appreciate this attempt to communicate with the fans and to reassure us so very much!
And if he has lurked a bit, I am sure he is already warned what a passionate bunch the LotR fans can be! You shouldn't forget that the Hobbit will not be the first Tolkien film, but that the trilogy is already made, and he surely knows the different reactions the first three films got.

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

Registered User

Apr 27 2008, 6:24am

Views: 14023
NZ for a week - miss Oz and go straight to NZ

In Reply To
80% sure to tack about a week in New Zealand while we're there. It looks like I might have some great locations to see - and maybe even locations in use!

You'll need longer than a week - I am hoping to be home again by then; but you'll need at least three weeks if not four to see it all properly; I know miss Australia bit out

Lost Hobbit

Apr 27 2008, 11:55am

Views: 14009
Hello to the director himself

Hello, Mr. Del Toro. Let me thank you for agreement to make Hobbit movie. It's a great responsibility and great chance to give the world what it was waiting for since people heard someone was making a new film version of Tolkiens work - and it became Peter and when we heard it was going to be Lotr, we wondered, what would happen to The Hobbit. It's so amazing and it will be fantastic experience for you to conduct this great team. I myself come from country of Georgia, which was part of USSR and Hobbit was published in Russia in 70s or 80s (i don't exactly remember) and it was very well received. There is only one book published in my language (georgian) - and it's Hobbit.And this year one of the publishings is preparing a new translation of the book. It will be a great chance for out readers to get into Tolkien once more, but the main thing is that they will know what they are going to watch when they will attend the premiere of the movie. I really can't wait to see it. And of course, it's very nice you want to keep in touch with the fans via this board.
P.s.: Everybody hope Andy will still be Gollum. I suppose, he will appear two times in the movie - in the cave and maybe in the appendixes? :)


Apr 27 2008, 11:56am

Views: 13834
By the way

Did you notice that the day Peter and you made your announcement that the films were a go was April 25th in NZ, and that it was the date that Gandalf met Bilbo on the front porch of Bag End and discussed adventures? Just a coincidental treasure I thought you'd enjoy. :)

Fateful and magical! It's a sign!!!

sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."

TORn's Observations Lists

The Shire

Apr 27 2008, 1:50pm

Views: 13806
The Hobbit 2

In the second film, linking The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, I wonder if there would be a decent way to fit 'The Scouring of the Shire' in somewhere, without confusion to those who haven't read the books. Those who have read the books, however, will be very happy to see that chapter added, I'm sure. It was an important detail in The Return of the King that would have made the film too long for most people to sit through, I suppose. So it might make since to add it to The Hobbit's sequel.

Have good fortune on the journey ahead. Namarie!

I would have gone with you to the end, into the very fires of Mordor.


Apr 27 2008, 8:08pm

Views: 8649
Bilbo Compromise?

I do see the necessity for a young actor to play Bilbo Baggins. But I would love it if Sir Ian Holmes would coach him, the way that the actors coached their body doubles in LotR. Heck, if I was a young actor, I'd sell everything I had to buy lessons from Sir Ian Holmes!

My website offers fanfic, and message-boards regarding intentional community or faerie exploration.

Lost Hobbit

Apr 27 2008, 8:10pm

Views: 8695
'The Scouring of the Shire'

Hey Aragorn, I always thought about it and I just was thinking of it yesterday. It would be nice, but the thing is - how to tell this story? Yes, it will have the form of appendix, but how to do it, if Peters movie already had a different ending. No Scouring of the Shire was used, Saruman already died in Isengard. It would be nice to see what you are interested in but the more the director will use such scenes means his version will be completely different story.


Apr 27 2008, 8:14pm

Views: 8675
Doug Jones

If Mr. del Toro is looking for the right role for Doug Jones, rather than enmeshing him in animatronics, I think (as I've said elsewhere) that he would make a fabulous King Thranduil! I can see him bringing an eerie, other-than-human sensibility to the role.

My website offers fanfic, and message-boards regarding intentional community or faerie exploration.

The Shire

Apr 27 2008, 8:33pm

Views: 8611
Re: The Scouring of the Shire

Yes, I thought about that: there is indeed a scene in the extended edition, about Saruman's death. I believe Legolas shot him in Orthanc. That would be hard to get by. But on the other hand, fans probably won't want to see Saruman taking over the Shire anyway.

I would have gone with you to the end, into the very fires of Mordor.


Apr 27 2008, 8:36pm

Views: 8694
hobbit age

To figure out hobbit/human age equivalents, divide a hobbit's age by 3, and then double the result. Thus, at 33, hobbits officially become adults when they reach the physical and mental maturity level of a 22 year old human being. Pippin embarking on his adventure at 27, not quite an adult but close enough, comes out to the hobbit equivalent of a human 18. At the time that Tolkien wrote that, most western countries considered an 18 year old person old enough to serve in the military but not old enough to vote. Bilbo departs on his adventure at a "middle-aged" 50, which is the equivalent of being in his thirties.

Frodo acquired the ring just when he came of age, and stopped aging at that point--so he really was supposed to look too young for his years. In fact, in the books, his unnaturally youthful appearance and behavior generated much comment in the Shire, along with concern that in some way it would have to be "paid for".

My website offers fanfic, and message-boards regarding intentional community or faerie exploration.


Apr 27 2008, 8:59pm

Views: 8897
Sir, you brought tears to my eyes...

...speaking so warmly of dear Fritz Leiber, and his alter-ego, Fafhrd, the scholarly barbarian! I thought that everyone had forgotten about him these days.

Yes, the lessons of possessiveness ring as true as ever in "The Hobbit" (And I hope that Christopher Tolkien catches on about this central theme in his father's intent, so that you really can pull the Quest of Erebor into the mix!) An equally important theme would be the heroism possible in anyone. I don't know how many times I forced myself to do what I feared, thinking that if Bilbo could do it, I could do it. This is why I find "The Hobbit" so important, why I counsel adults to read it before they start "The Lord of the Rings," because you have to see hobbits at their most staid and unexciting to begin with, in order to understand the full scope of Frodo and Sam's eventual achievement. You will have done your job, sir, if anyone walks out of the theater thinking, "I may be stodgy, fat, and so boring that people know what I'm going to say before I say it, but by God I'm going to spend the rest of my life standing up for what I think is right, and taking any risk I must to back it up!"

Thank you so very much for diving into this with so much enthusiasm and insight!

My website offers fanfic, and message-boards regarding intentional community or faerie exploration.


Apr 27 2008, 9:07pm

Views: 8940
Get back out of the box, Sunflower!

Honey, it's not the end of the world that you quoted the wrong person initially. The point that you made was beautiful and important and true. You just keep right on making points like that--I like the way your mind works.

My website offers fanfic, and message-boards regarding intentional community or faerie exploration.


Apr 27 2008, 9:48pm

Views: 8777

What I'd really like to do is get into an intellectual sparring match with him,, on cinema, that is.....but 1) I'm sure he would beat me, and 2)he won't be replying, of courseLaugh.

Thanks for the comments. Oh, and I don't think I replied to your comment about trees the other day. Would it surprise you to know that on my way home from work yesterday, I spotted a tree that had a hugely bulging spot on it, with some nasty looking pink fungus? (or something pink.)It had SOME sort of disease. I made sure no-one was looking, then put my hands on it and said a prayer for it to be healed. Then kept my hands on it another moment or two. I swear, I felt a slight tingle in the fingers....hope me prayer will be answered.

*Only on TORN would I confess something like this*

Several of your posts reference nature. Do you live in a very rural spot?

(This post was edited by Sunflower on Apr 27 2008, 9:50pm)


Apr 28 2008, 2:39am

Views: 8835
Rural spot indeed.

Praying for a sick tree seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to me, and a charitable act. I pray for the willows out behind our church all through the winter to help them through (but then desert willows have a special relationship with Yaquis anyway--maybe I'll tell you about it someday.)

Yes, I live four miles outside the Tucson city limits, in an old former dude ranch now divided up into really weird and funky apartments made of raw, unshaped stone, designed when Art Noveau was all the rage, so there's a certain fairytale sensibility about the little clusters of cottages tucked discretely into the wild desert hillsides here and there (some have been called hobbit-holes because they're buried on one side) Mine is a segment of the largest building, which has some hints of castle-like features. But yes,everything is wild out here, no lawns or hedges or anything like that, but rather paloverdes and jojoba and cacti. Javalinas (wild boars, to you European folk) regularly troop up my front walk and over the porch to raid the neighbor's garden. Deer and coyote go up and down the dirt road in front (not usually at the same time) Rabbits and lizards abound. Tarantulas annually wander indoors (there's holes in the old stone walls) on their yearly march in search of females, and have to be gently shown out again. Rattlesnakes "shhhhh!" at you like scolding librarians if you step too close. Butterflies migrate in waves miles wide in early autumn, swooping across the desert. As a matter of fact, a coyote chorus just started up while I'm writing this. We're out far enough to be free of streetlights and traffic noise, and can sleep as deeply as hobbits in holes. I love it out here, even if it is slightly falling apart and rugged (which reminds me, I'd better go put water on to heat for washing dishes--the hot water doesn't quite make it all the way to the kitchen.)

My website offers fanfic, and message-boards regarding intentional community or faerie exploration.


Apr 28 2008, 3:05am

Views: 8402

Lovely spot, Dreamdeer, but I'm a typical cowardly female. I'll skip the tarantulas and rattlers, thank you very much..I'm not sure what the population of the Shire would be if they had snakes! (good question for The Professor methinks?) . Though I am sure that if you are one of the desert tribes there's all sorts of lore and if you are versed in it, then you don't mind them one bit.

This reminds me of a story from the Raiders of the Lost Ark filming. Spielberg said that they had a hard time getting the tarantulas on that guy's back in the opening sequence to move )you kmow, when he was getting the Idol) so he asked the "tarantula wrangler" what to do. (Spielberg wanted them to be crawling down his back.) The wrangler told him they were all males, so they had to put a female one on there. So they did, and BOY did they start to move...LOL)

I spent a large part of my childhood at my grandma's house on Keuka Lake, a waterfront property in central NY State, in a country of rolling hills and valleys, where they grow wine grapes. In fact, before Cali, This area was the wine capital of the looks a lot like the San Fernendo Valley. It is a beautful place, though the Finger Lakes area has a reputation for spawning mystics and crazy people. Visionaries, etc. The founder of the Mormons is said to have had his vision here, and the leader of the women's movement, Mrs Stanton, came from here. At night, the mist rolls blue across the Lake; it takes a long time for the mist to clear from the hills. Nowadays, the area is becoming gentrified, with more and more fat cats from NYC and Jersey buying up the homes. (My hope is that the housing market will get so bad that they'll be proced out and have to leave, and property vzalues will go down again.) It is an area of villages and resort homes, but also a lot of Amish live here, up in the hill areas and valleys, where they grow wheat and corn. Organically. You can stop at a farm road in summer and buy the biggest strawberries, the best fruit you ever will get.

Keuka Lake is tempermental. In Seneca it means "crooked lake" (as Adirondack means "bark eater", and Lake George's origional name was Lake Atiaronocte.) I love Native American lore. (I began my love of trees after finishing Black Elk Speaks, and a novel called " Hanta Yo" by Ruth Beebe Ellis.)
....If a storm blows up on the Lake, watch out....the lake is shaped like a Y,--it is 17 miles long, and the fork of the Y is in the dead middle--and in the middle, during a storm, it forms a whirlpool. The seven Finger Lakes are said to be connected by an underground cavern. It is said that a town 30 miles south of Keuka Lake, called Horseheads, got its name in the 1820's when a farmer driving his wagon team next to the Lake got sucked out in a storm and a few weeks later the skeletons of the horses, still in harness, were found washed up on the river bed.

(This post was edited by Sunflower on Apr 28 2008, 3:09am)

Eowyn of Penns Woods

Apr 28 2008, 4:16am

Views: 8860
He did talk about it.

'If you don't, if you even breathe a word of what you've heard here, then I hope Gandalf will turn you into a spotted toad and fill the garden full of grass-snakes.'
They don't sound so bad, though.

I can deal with snakes, but big spiders gotta go!

Peredhil lover

Apr 28 2008, 4:54am

Views: 8801
Not everyone!

In Reply To
...speaking so warmly of dear Fritz Leiber, and his alter-ego, Fafhrd, the scholarly barbarian! I thought that everyone had forgotten about him these days.

In Germany, these books only recently have been published in a new edition. Not everyone has forgotten about Leiber!

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

The Shire

Apr 28 2008, 1:41pm

Views: 8592

Are you a fan of H.P. Lovecraft Mr. del Toro? Because I seem to detect and influence of his on your work. You're so amazingly well-read, just had to say.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.


Apr 29 2008, 1:30am

Views: 9452
Of course-

I am a huge Lovecraft fan- I've been struggling for years to have a studio finance an adaptation of AT THE MOUNTAINS OF MADNESS (his superb response to Poe's Grodon Pym) and I am a disciple of Ashton Smith, WH Hodgson, Algernon Blackwood, Machen and others loosely associated with his "circle" of interests. Including, of course, Lord Dunsany...

I co-wrote teh script (has been reviewed online several times) co-created a series of 16 inch maquettes and about 30-40 drawings of Soggoth overtakings and transmutations to illustrate the ways in which the film VFX could be achieved, but to no avail... I still await for it to happen.

Just to hear your lists in return- allow me to name some of my very favorites ever: Dickens, Wilde, Capote, Borges, Schwobe, Dinesen, Rulfo, Gombrowicz, McCullers, Henry James (no- not limited to his ghost stories), Tolstoi and Chejov. Always curious - anxious, actually - to read yours.

We'll keep talking- now I post at 2 am London time as I have a bad case of the flu...

Until then-

Yr Obt Svt



Apr 29 2008, 2:06am

Views: 8427
If you weren't already a great director...

...I suspect you could have made an excellent academic and/or author yourself.

I will indeed take up your invitation to join your site. Gracias!

-mwirkk :)


Apr 29 2008, 2:50am

Views: 8503
Oo, Those Awful Wargs!

Okay, please, no hate mail -- I'm just joking! :)

But I, too, was displeased with the Wargs in tTT; a bit better in RotK, but only slightly.

So, on the DVD the WETA folks who designed them said they just didn't want to give us (boring?) giant wolves. But, how did Tolkien describe wargs in The Hobbit? Very much like giant wolves! Okay, not exactly like, but very much like. The same, only different. More menacing. Like a turtleneck shirt compared to a button-down. ;P So, what did we get? Hyenas. Yuk!! Well, I guess that's a good match for an smelly Orc. I was wondering what a wolfling would be doing associating with goblins, anywayz. ...the wolf is obviously much smarter. ;)

-mwirkk :)


Apr 29 2008, 6:02am

Views: 8318
Yeah but...but...uh...

In Reply To
I'm not so sure animatronics is the right way to go for The Hobbit.

[mwirkk] I can't fault you for your trepedation. But what about Jabba the Hutt? That's the best two-tonne talking slug *I've* ever seen on screen. ;P

In Reply To
I haven't seen Pan's Labyrinth

[mwirkk] You must! Get the deluxe edition so you can see Guillermo's interviews. What I really liked about PL was it's a fairie story, but it is not a Disney-fied version of one -- all the old-time brutality is there.

In Reply To
...somehow, my brain picks out patterns of movements from animatronics and puppets, even when well done, and totally removes me from the film.

[mwirkk] That is sooooo true! Other things can take away the Suspension of Disbelief, though, with eqaully jolting effect, such as fat, fuzzy, little, blue space-elephants playing keyboards in the bar/cantina/lounge/whatever... Oh, wait a minute, that was an animatronic too. :)

In Reply To
Yoda in Ep.I for instance, is much more distracting to me than CGI Yoda in Ep. II and III.

[mwirkk] I liked Yoda in Ep.V. He was a cute little guy, getting into stuff, whacking miscreants with his little cane, using the Force to cheat at games of Pinochle...

In Reply To
Didn't they use both animatronics and CGI for Treebeard? ... A few shots of Treebeard just looked way too mechanical.

[mwirkk] I think that it was the right choice for the closeups with Treebeard's facial details. He had to have a mechanical, crackly, frictiony kind of texture and movement. His skin is made of bark, poor guy. Maybe the EntMaidens (whom are lost) have better complexions -- more like aspen, birch or alder. :)

In Reply To
Compare him with the Balrog and Oliphaunts.

[mwirkk] Now those would have been some big-4$%#&! animatronics! Pretty dangerous too, I'll bet. Especially when they light the Balrog on fire.

In Reply To
Whatever they used for the Balrog, Oliphaunts, etc. is what should be used in The Hobbit, in my opinion.

[mwirkk] Ya, what he said! (whatever=cgi) Don't think it's up to us, though. But I'm not worried, they'll make good decisions. :)

In Reply To
Just think how those techniques have improved in the more than ten years that will have passed between these productions.

[mwirkk] That's going to be one of the most anticipated aspects, me thinks. By us gearheads, anywayz. We'll be sitting there, just staring, and drooling... drooling... droo(oh! Er, sorry!) ... thinking about all the possibilities... things that they could go back and touch-up/fix from the first trilogy. Of course, if the wargs are the same as before, it's probably an all-hope-lost scenario for that ever happening. {Just kidding. A'little. I guess.} It should certainly be much much easier for them to do Gollum this time around. Not only have they done it before, but, as you say, the technology will be so much more advanced. However, if they decide to do a bunch of CGI characters in a long series of scenes (say, for example, most of the dwarves), I hope they think real hard about all options, because I was thoroughly unimpressed with the quality of the character animations in last years Beowulf, with Gerard Butler. ...except for Angelina Jolie, of course. ;) {Sorry, Imma oinker! ;P}

-mwirkk :)


Apr 29 2008, 6:27am

Views: 8725
Ya, Sunflower! What Dreamdeer said...

...You can't go anywhere. You were the first person to answer me on TORn boards, once I finally got off the couch and joined. :)
So don't you hide, or I'll be sad. :(

-mwirkk :)


Apr 29 2008, 7:35am

Views: 8581
Of Faerie.

¡Hola Sr. Del Toro!

I loved El Laberinto del Fauno (like anybody else whom had chance it to espy), it pulled me in immediately. It was a wonderful blend of the real world and the fringes of Faerie. And it shocked me in a couple of places, which I really enjoyed. That reminded me of reading of reading familiar Fairy tales in their oldest folk forms. :) Prior to PL I was aware of you from Hellboy and Blade II. But it was PL that really made me sit up and take notice! And it also got me looking back at what else you've done, like Cronos and Devil's Backbone. I'm really glad for that. (Funny how a door is closed, until some event comes along, makes you take notice, and then you open it...!?!) Anyway, back to Faerie...

I was wondering if you've read much, or any, of George McDonald, and what you might have thought of it? Lilith is my favourite of his. (My friend Joel from CO was good enough to lend me his copy.) I thought that might have been one you would have liked as well. Or maybe not; but it seems to me it would have fit your descriptions of what you like and don't. William Morris is another Edwardian era fantasy author I like. Also, have you read the recent author Susanna Clarke? She wrote: Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell, a bit over the top in a couple of places, but quite unlike anything anyone else has done in a long while; and, The Ladies of Grace Adieu, a collection of short stories. I like what she says in explaining the difference between Faerie and our world (as it exists in her stories), she says... Men and fairies have much in common, the primary difference being: Men have a great talent for logic and reason, but a small talent for magic; Fairies have a natural talent for enchantment and magic, but a small talent for logic and reason. That, it seems to me, is elegant, simple, and yet powerful. It explains very much, while saying very little. I don't know if that has been said before by someone else somewhere else, or whether she coined that definition herself.

¡Adiós amigo! Pax! Kiitos!!

-mwirkk :)

The Shire

Apr 30 2008, 10:05am

Views: 8751
have a good journey in Middle Heart!

Dear Mr Del Toro, i'm Huge Lovecraft fan too! and i really hope after The Hobbit Movies, you will be able to direct AT THE MOUNTAINS OF MADNESS!

i just want to tell you one thing, when all the troubles about Hobbit production came out, and the presence of Peter Jackson was in discussion, i have really thinked about a possible substitute, and it was just one name, Guillermo del Toro!
Why? cause i'm a huge fan of your work, i have discovered your work very soon, years ago like for Peter Jackson with Bad taste, i'm an italian actor and i eat movies since i was 3 years, i love your style and visions, i really love Pan's Labirinth, where the real world with his wars is much more scary and without a logical sense, then the fantasy world with his demons but where there are rules.

i feel all your astonish potential like an artist still must be seen and The Hobbit Movies probably will be the right place, the right time, and the right journey, to express all your great talent! you have all my esteem, i trust in you and if you and Mr Jackson have you wanted work together, i can just feel good emotions about it.

have a good journey in Middle Heart!

for this movies you and Mr Jackson, will be like Dante And Virglio.

thanks a lot, for your passion and visions.

just one thing, if Mr Lee is too old to leave for New Zeland, i hope you will be able to shot his scenes in London, Mr lee is a MUST.


Apr 30 2008, 4:23pm

Views: 8597
that Worrisome Sequel...

I must say the whole concept of this "sequel" movie worries me sick. It strikes me too much as FanFic, even if it is being created by the two or three human beings on Earth most qualified to do it.

I try to console myself by saying that well, yes, Tolkien did write and allude to many goings-on that may well go into a "sequel." At least: together with The Hobbit, there is enough for at least Two Movies. I just can't convince myself these events should actually BE a "sequel" per se (as in: taking place only after Bilbo's return to Bag End and before his subsequent departure at age eleventy one.) Because many of the important events that link the Hobbit to LOTR occurred during, and in some cases even before, Bilbo and the Dwarves' journey and "the incident with the dragon."

Beloved characters such as Gandalf, Galadriel, Aragorn, etc. (as well as the not-so-beloved Gollum and Saruman) were all very active before, during, and after The Hobbit. And knowing what they were doing off the Hobbit radar is tremendously helpful in understanding how the Hobbit is indeed very much connected to LOTR. It's just the chronological sequence that has me worried.

In order to make "a sequel" in the strictest sense of the word, we would have to leave many important events out, namely ones that happened before April 25 2941 (For instance: Gandalf's finding Thorin's father in the dungeons of the Necromancer, and his talking with the Dwarves about how all-out war on Smaug would be a very bad idea and how he had thought of a better strategy involving a certain hobbit he knew of!) What happens between 2942 and 3001 might - with some padding (probably long, tedious battle scenes, ugh!) be enough to fill out an epic movie. But without making up totally new (i.e. not written or even alluded to by Tolkien) events out of whole cloth, it would still lack certain elements that are essential to a good Story, namely: a Beginning, a Middle, and an End.

One thing I can say is that I do feel fairly confident that if Philippa Boyens is involved in writing the screenplay, whether it be "The Hobbit plus A Sequel" or actually incorporating enough backstory and afterstory to make the whole Hobbit venture into two movies, it will for the most part be really good stuff.


Apr 30 2008, 7:02pm

Views: 8398
Fran and Philippa...

In Reply To
...One thing I can say is that I do feel fairly confident that if Philippa Boyens is involved in writing the screenplay, whether it be "The Hobbit plus A Sequel" or actually incorporating enough backstory and afterstory to make the whole Hobbit venture into two movies, it will for the most part be really good stuff.

Yeah...I'd like to know that both Fran and Philippa are going to be closely involved in script writing and development. Anybody know what's going on in that area?


Keebler the Elf

Apr 30 2008, 8:02pm

Views: 8487
Follow the storyline, GDT, and you've got me on your bandwagon....

I'm sure you'll do a great job, Guillermo!!!!!!

Mmmmmm....somethin' smells good!!!!! Could it be cookies baked in a tree?

Keebler's Website

Those were good cookies.....TIME TO HUNT SOME ORC!!!!!!!!!

Registered User

Apr 30 2008, 11:20pm

Views: 8429
Aspect Ratio?

Quick question, which may be of no interest to anyone except me, or might have been discussed before (which, if that's the case, I apologise - I'm new here!). What aspect ratio will Guillermo shoot the movie in? He's said he wants to stay as true to the LOTR trilogy as possible, but to the best of my knowledge he only ever shoots in 1.85:1... and I believe Peter Jackson's marvellous films all use the wider, grander 2.35:1 ratio. I hope he can be convinced to do likewise!

Apart from that small worry, I'm very excited about the new movies!

Registered User

May 2 2008, 8:56pm

Views: 8259

Mr. del Toro,

Ask and ye shall receive: you have my trust! Having seen several of your films (my favorite being Pan's Labyrinth), I am impressed to say the least. You seem well placed to interpret Tolkien & Jackson's material with your own creative vision. I can only say the fruits of your labor cannot come soon enough. I can't wait!

- Christian


May 10 2008, 11:21pm

Views: 7435

welcome GDT...and thank you for the opportunity to know you and some of your thoughts on the project. PJ has earned my trust and if he is trusting you than I suppose I can too. Looking forward to going back to Middle Earth with everyone here and with you.Wink


May 10 2008, 11:27pm

Views: 7630
I'm afraid your probably right

Once it becomes an active set again I doubt anyone will be permitted to its future I agree unless some miracle occurs it will be returned to the preproduction state again...After all, they couldn't even use a capital letter in "hobbiton" due to estate restrictions.

I'd love to be able to go back there again, NZ in general but Matamata and the hobbiton set was do I describe it..(it was almost hallowed ground) Special.


Jun 25 2008, 3:39pm

Views: 7454
Hi I'm new to the boards.

Its nice to see that I am not the only one out in cyberspace or beyond that thinks highly of J.R.R Tolkien's work. I first read The Hobbit in 5th grade for a school project and I don't think that my mind (at that young age) wrapped around the book so well. So when I grew older I decided to revisit Bilbo and the merry band of dwarves to see if I understood a little better about Tolkien's mind set when he wrote the book. I read the entire book three times in two weeks (having no life to speak of as I am disabled in my lower back) and loved it so much! Anyway I am glad to now be apart of this wonderful group and am very excited to see what Mr.
Guillermo has in store for The Hobbit.

I watched Hellboy and loved it, you really have a gift for thinking outside the box! I hope that The Hobbit is exciting but true to the book as much as it possibly can be. I really loved Andy Sirkis as Gollum, it is exactly how my mind saw his character in the book.

Well, I guess that is it for now. To all of you that are on this message board a lot Hi and I hope to become great pals.Sly

(This post was edited by Lady_Eowyn on Jun 25 2008, 3:42pm)