The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
BOT5A TRAILER 2 OUT!!!



NateGate
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 5:59pm


Views: 9886
     BOT5A TRAILER 2 OUT!!!

http://www.youtube.com/...JDM5pRKbUlVIzDYYWb6g


(This post was edited by NateGate on Nov 6 2014, 6:00pm)


ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Nov 6 2014, 6:01pm


Views: 6935
     Wow!

I love it!


ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Nov 6 2014, 6:02pm


Views: 7025
     The 9 Lords!!!

34584390uirt90fkv fjmrwm90rk


Thranderz
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 6:03pm


Views: 6942
     OMG

I have no words.....

I simply walked into Mordor.


Joe20
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 6:03pm


Views: 7051
     Oh god that was atrocious

CGI just keeps getting worse and worse.


Guert
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 6:04pm


Views: 6887
     This is...

UNBELIEVABLE.

I CAN'T WAIT.

EVERYTHING IN THIS TRAILER IS PERFECT.


Smaug Report
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 6:06pm


Views: 6818
     HOLY GOD!

I was moved to tears. That was INCREDIBLE. Speechless.

I will show you revenge...


ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Nov 6 2014, 6:07pm


Views: 6955
     Nothing in this trailer looks any worse than...

anything we saw in the Return of the King.


Joe20
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 6:07pm


Views: 6836
     I disagree

 


ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Nov 6 2014, 6:08pm


Views: 6719
     Examples?

??


tsmith675
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:09pm


Views: 6622
     Wow

Just wow.

Our destiny lies above us.


davidjUK
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 6:09pm


Views: 6619
     WOW!!

Just wow!! I literally cannot wait!!!

The Nine, Saruman, Sauron, Mount Gundabad, Thranduil and his elk, Galadriel, I can't express how much I want to see this movie.

HURRY UP December 12th!!!!


Drakblod
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 6:09pm


Views: 6688
     Maybe it's the generic Trailer music

Or maybe the abundance of CGI creatures, but this trailer doesn't do much for me.

like butter scraped over too much bread.


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 6:10pm


Views: 6604
     This is how you make a trailer

So much emotion and pathos and character. I think we are in for a real treat this December.

ps. Do Legolas and Tauriel go to Mt. Gundabad?

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:11pm


Views: 6591
     Yeah

I hate to be a downer but I also see too much CGI for my liking. I hold out judgement until the final film.

What I did like is that the tone of this seems more serious and darker. I didn't see any over the top action. The Nazgul! They look pretty cool from that one shot. Hopefully they look great in the film.

And does anyone notice that Martin seems to put the ring on his middle finger a lot? Lol, it reminds me of the extras where he kept giving the camera the finger.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Joe20
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 6:11pm


Views: 6760
     God awful trolls...

elves that look like they've just been been copy and pasted, blatant green screens and set extensions.

Now its 5:00AM so I think i'll be going back to sleep.


Scorchster
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 6:11pm


Views: 6543
     Incredible! So many emotions watching this!!!

 


cats16
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 6:11pm


Views: 6589
     Wow...just wow...

Tears. Smiles. More tears. Wow.

Still don't have the words, after two viewings.



Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!




QuackingTroll
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 6:12pm


Views: 6605
     Perhaps not, but there's a lot more of it

An over abundance, makes it look like those terrible Robert Zemeckis movies *shudder*

I personally find the environments most distracting. Not only do CG environments look incredibly fake, but something about their aesthetic just feels really claustrophobic. Even if the actor is green-screened onto a CGI mountain-top where 90% of the screen is sky and landscape, it still just feels enclosed somehow. Like a set. I don't know why, I guess it's something to do with lighting, but it just does. CrazyMad


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 6:12pm


Views: 6660
     two movies in

And you're still surprised by how CGI in these films? Blush

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


tsmith675
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:13pm


Views: 6576
     Boo hoo//

 

Our destiny lies above us.


xxxyyy
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:13pm


Views: 6496
     Wow... I'm impressed.

I sensed no chessiness there, and that's good.
The first trailer was... meh...
My hope is a bit rekindled.


(This post was edited by xxxyyy on Nov 6 2014, 6:15pm)


haarp
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 6:14pm


Views: 6542
     8

this does NOT beat unexpected journey trailer


DeadRabbits
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 6:15pm


Views: 6471
     That pot bellied troll/orc at 1:36... who/what is he?

Is he appearing again at 1:57? (PJ's cameo, maybe?)

Epic trailer btw!

Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought


adt100
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:15pm


Views: 6425
     Best Hobbit trailer yet!

Stunning, and not just all out 'action' focussed. Great character moments, dialogue, emotion, music. LOVED IT!


WhiskFishercat
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 6:15pm


Views: 3238
     Tauriel

Well now we know how Tauriel dies, thanks spoilerific trailer! Sweet trailer though, cant wait!


Thranduiliel
Bree

Nov 6 2014, 6:16pm


Views: 3280
     Thranduil continues to appear as the villain

As if the Elvenking didn't have enough bad press in DoS - now he looks like he's just come to start a war to pick up his pretty necklace, and appears to be clashing swords with Tauriel? I have a suspicion Legolas will be the one to educate him...not happy.

Some good parts, but I'm feeling less enthused than ever.


Arannir
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 6:16pm


Views: 3203
     Don't be so sure.

She is alive long enough to hold dead Kili in her arms.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



adt100
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:17pm


Views: 3114
     Some people will complain at ANYTHING. WETA remain the best SFX house in the business.

 


Thranderz
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 6:17pm


Views: 3140
     I can't get over

Dwalin's line. That hits so hard.

I simply walked into Mordor.


AshNazg
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:17pm


Views: 3215
     Why aren't more people complaining about CG??

Half of the trailer looked like unfinished pre-viz! I don't mind the use of CGI in these films, but this one looks really, really bad. Hope it looks better in the film.


xxxyyy
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:17pm


Views: 3068
     Well... music... imagine that with Shore's MUSIC.//

 


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:17pm


Views: 3111
     Oh man!

How about that!


Olorin2607
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 6:17pm


Views: 3145
     Yeah..

Go sleeping. So we don't get this godawful negativity right away..again..

As for the trailer: AWESOME Heart


ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Nov 6 2014, 6:18pm


Views: 3177
     Gawd awful >trolls<??

Irony 101. At no point in this entire trailer did I detect any bad cgi. The only reason I know it's cgi is because there's no way such gradios shots can be achieved practically. This was a top notch trailer… aside from the generic music which still fit the mood. Please..


Smaug Report
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 6:18pm


Views: 3058
     Agreed.

 

I will show you revenge...


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:18pm


Views: 3086
     for me

I also find the CGI orcs to be really distracting. In LOTR CGI was really only used for orcs with wide shots where there were like hundred of them and they were in the background. I honestly can't stand seeing CGI orcs in closeup crawling over ruins in battle.

And I also agree about the CGI landscapes. While I think the landscape work they have done with the CGI looks very realistic (probably the most realistic CGI work I've seen) there's something about it that creates that artificial feeling. I think a lot of it has to do with that overabundance of it. Whereas before you would have some CGI background with a miniature and a set with an actor, now it's mostly just a the set with the actor and everything else is CGI. miniatures gave a lot of realistic weight that CGI just can't quite reach yet.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle

(This post was edited by redgiraffe on Nov 6 2014, 6:21pm)


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:18pm


Views: 3153
     Umm....

you mean kind of like in the book?


Thranderz
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 6:18pm


Views: 3083
     I'm sure it will

I remember having problems with the final DoS trailer but then it turned out fantastic (apart from Mirkwood entrance obviouslyTongue).

I simply walked into Mordor.


Silranhir
Bree

Nov 6 2014, 6:18pm


Views: 3131
     Poor

Probably the worst trailer out of all six movies. And I don't think this film will be the big hope to rescue the series everyone is hoping it will be.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Nov 6 2014, 6:19pm


Views: 3049
     My brain has stopped working

I've watched the trailer twice now and I can't even process everything in it! Shocked

I like it...it's just that it's so...epic...I can't...I can't even...

Just...just give me a minute to process...

"Home is behind the world ahead
And there are many paths to tread
Through shadow to the edge of night
Until the stars are all alight.

Mist and shadow
Cloud and shade
All shall fade
All shall fade"



Drakblod
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 6:20pm


Views: 3091
     Because

For some reason alot of people here are kinda sheepish and will praise ANYTHING Hobbit-related and violently defend anyone disagreeing

like butter scraped over too much bread.


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:20pm


Views: 3018
     I don't think

most of us need anything to 'rescue the series'...it's been a good series with many flaws (like LOTR) and this will be an appropriate, epic, flawed and emotional ending to it.

Anyone looking for negativity will be sure to find it.


Loresilme
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 6:21pm


Views: 2994
     Is anyone else speechless?

In a good way, I mean? Wow. That hit me a lot harder than I thought it would. I thought that was incredible. And different than what I expected! Intriguing too. Emotions, questions, .... just, wow! I need to come back and post again when I recover ShockedCrazySmile!


Danielos
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:21pm


Views: 3073
     CGI elves

Pause on the shot of the elven army. They really do look like CGI elves that have been copy-pasted!


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:21pm


Views: 2994
     Which is a stark contrast

to the ones who are trollish and will say anything negative any chance they get.


Carne
Tol Eressea

Nov 6 2014, 6:22pm


Views: 2992
     It's becasue they'll be fighting the dwarves

Has to do with scale. Look at the Dol Guldur orcs, they're practical because they'll be fighting the elves. The orcs fighting the dwarves are CG because of scale issues. You can't easily find fifty stunt performers who are all over 7ft tall.


(This post was edited by Carne on Nov 6 2014, 6:22pm)


Arannir
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 6:22pm


Views: 3000
     I think what many people criticize about CGI...

... is mainly the style. Bad CGI would be something rather objective - the HD style is something deliberate. Dividing, maybe, but used deliberatly.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Nov 6 2014, 6:22pm


Views: 2915
     Same here //

 

"Home is behind the world ahead
And there are many paths to tread
Through shadow to the edge of night
Until the stars are all alight.

Mist and shadow
Cloud and shade
All shall fade
All shall fade"



Remus
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 6:22pm


Views: 2927
     Wallpapers?

Where are the wallpapers? Last year we got wallpapers along with the trailer............


tsmith675
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:22pm


Views: 3182
     Or maybe...

Because of... you know... opinions and stuff?

Our destiny lies above us.


Smaug Report
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 6:23pm


Views: 3200
     What's your background in CG?

By your statement, you must be an authority, with vast experience to know so much about the current state of pre-viz in the industry to accurately judge fx shots in a way that is more than simply an uninformed opinion.

I have never seen pre-viz look this good. If you want to see ACTUAL pre-viz, watch the Into the Fire video on the EE, and they show ACTUAL pre-viz CG in it, so you can then compare and see your statement is not supported by any facts.

I will show you revenge...

(This post was edited by Smaug Report on Nov 6 2014, 6:28pm)


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 6:23pm


Views: 3316
     But Thranduil is a villian

Or portrayed as having antagonistic qualities to our heroes. He is shown to be a coward and selfish and vain. Obviously he's more complex, but his role within the narrative (at least in film 2) is as a villian.

I'm sure BOTFA will show his complexity, but it's a two minute trailer. You can't really judge based on that. Just you wait! Wink

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


AncalagontheBlack
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:23pm


Views: 3162
     Or

others are trollish.....pov I guess


Loresilme
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 6:23pm


Views: 3145
     lol yes that's exactly how I felt!!

ShockedSmileShockedSlyLaughSmile *overload* lol!!


Angharad73
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 6:23pm


Views: 3189
     Having a hard time...

...to express my feelings on this. Parts of the trailer are excellent and get me all excited for the movie, while other parts are just...

Love Thorin, as always. And do we see Bilbo climbing down the wall there to deliver the Arkenstone into 'enemy hands'? Loved that bit. Oh, and Dwalin! Love Dwalin!

Thranduil -love the look, but he seems a bit too riled up there. I can't see him say "Long will I tarry..." if he's worked up like that. And that would be a shame.

And then there's that whole Kili/Tauriel thing, which is a big disappointment to me.

So, overall it's pretty much 50/50 for me.


Olorin2607
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 6:23pm


Views: 3141
     The point is..

...that right away you go for the negative bits as if nothing else was any good. And you make it seem as if the whole movie is "bad" because of some unfinished CGI.

There ARE flaws of course.. but like 1 minute after watching the trailer is not really the right time to focus on them.


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:24pm


Views: 3257
     tauriel


In Reply To
Well now we know how Tauriel dies, thanks spoilerific trailer! Sweet trailer though, cant wait!


Am I the only one who thinks it looked like Thranduil cuts her throat with his sword? LOL Watch closely again.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Silranhir
Bree

Nov 6 2014, 6:26pm


Views: 3125
     Fans


In Reply To
most of us need anything to 'rescue the series'...it's been a good series with many flaws (like LOTR) and this will be an appropriate, epic, flawed and emotional ending to it.

Anyone looking for negativity will be sure to find it.


The hardcore element never will. The general public who are the majority will though. This trilogy gets no where near Lord of the Rings and in parts is a bit of a disaster.

The biggest downside is the overuse of CGI and fake environments which take away from what LOTR gave us. A big part of Middle Earth are the locations which in LOTR were real. Losing them for the hobbit has took away from the emotion of the films.


(This post was edited by Silranhir on Nov 6 2014, 6:27pm)


adt100
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:26pm


Views: 3127
     Are you trolling here, seriously?

I've just watched it 3 times, HD, full screen on my 27" iMac. I'm not sure about the 'panzer tank' trolls, but other than that it looks spectacular! I know 'everyone has an opinion', but quite frankly if you think it was bad then you must have different eyes to me! The CGI has throughout the films got bigger and better, sure there are odd glitches and imperfections, but there were FAR MORE than in the LOTR films. I just watched the back to back EE's recently and whilst Gollum and other effects stand up, the CGI is certainly not as good. Yet, this is by WETA, the same people, only with more experience, more money, more talent. The CGI IS better, markedly so, it is merely certain people that remain annoyed by it's use.


Smaug Report
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 6:27pm


Views: 3108
     No one is "sheepish"

It's painfully obvious by the tone and demeanor of the negative posts here, that not only do they not represent a constructive, fair critique of anything, but that people are enjoying being nasty. You can smell the arrogance a mile away.

I don't smell sheep, but I sure do smell Trolls.

What I do see is people not being smug enough to think that they can simplify a work of cinema that is so complex like this, down to a simple "meh", which is the go-to "look how cool I am, I'm so cool in fact, I only write in single, disdainful sentences without periods, or in single words, to show people how little I care, oh, wait I am taking the time to post something nasty and unfair, it looks like I do have an agenda...oopsie."

I also see people allowing themselves to get lost in a beautiful, epic fantasy world and trying to enjoy something for what it is, instead of what they think it should be, or how they could make it better, keep in mind if that were true, the people saying they could do better, IF they could ACTUALLY do better, wouldn't have time to moan on an internet message board, because they would be too busy in a movie career using their obviously superior talents.

I will show you revenge...

(This post was edited by Smaug Report on Nov 6 2014, 6:32pm)


Scorchster
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 6:27pm


Views: 3151
     Thought it might've been a slap

 


AshNazg
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:27pm


Views: 3130
     Or you could just pause it at 0:32 and agree that it's terrible

Unless they were going for the mannequin elf clones look?

Obviously "pre-viz" is an intentional exaggeration.


Macfeast
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 6:27pm


Views: 3113
     Fantastic.

I won't say that this is my favorite trailer... but it is definitely up there among them. So much goodness, so much to love.

My only complaint? That people aren't allowed to dislike it without being compared to trolls.


(This post was edited by Macfeast on Nov 6 2014, 6:28pm)


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 6:28pm


Views: 3095
     Even a short glance, Saruman does it all for me

 


Arannir
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 6:28pm


Views: 3080
     The way people act in this thread is sad.

Unimpressed

Both sides.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



(This post was edited by Arannir on Nov 6 2014, 6:29pm)


Loresilme
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 6:29pm


Views: 3036
     No, it's because

in my case, I connected much more with, and was much more affected by, the much more emotional tone of this trailer. I found there was so much going on in terms of character in this trailer that for me, the CGI was secondary. Very secondary.


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:29pm


Views: 3050
     what's funny

is that people keep complaining about 'bad CG' which clearly illustrates their lack of knowledge/experience on the subject because 98% of the CG is REALLY GOOD...and what they are seeing that is 'bad' to them is the digital look of the film mixed with a lot of CG plus highly compressed internet versions of the file.

It's not that all of the CG is bad, there are a lot of other factors involved.


greenbalrog
Bree

Nov 6 2014, 6:30pm


Views: 3094
     So, Thranduil kills Tauriel?

It seems so.


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 6:31pm


Views: 2961
     me too~

The character beats and emotion is so strong in this trailer, that a little bad cgi (that is clearly not finished but due to the pressure of marketing/advertising they have to release it anyway) does not ruin it for me in the slightest. Angelic

December 17th can't come soon enough!

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


adt100
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:31pm


Views: 3036
     Because of course we didn't have that in FOTR, TTT or ROTK?

Difference being, back then trailers came out in 640p and not full HD that you can view on 27" + screens!


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Nov 6 2014, 6:32pm


Views: 2996
     All I can say is...

Never mind the good/bad CGI arguments, I just can't believe we have yet another recycled line from the first trilogy - Legolas on the bats: "bred for a single purpose....war"


plus the Kili/Tauriel thing - yuck! Crazy


But the rest looks...interesting! Smile





"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Ż Victoria Monfort


(This post was edited by Eleniel on Nov 6 2014, 6:33pm)


AshNazg
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:32pm


Views: 2973
     Also when they fire, they're all apparently left-handed! //

 


tsmith675
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:32pm


Views: 3031
     Two shots of iffy CGI...

does not = bad trailer.

I don't get people. This trailer is really fantastic. From a storytelling aspect, not an action aspect, this trailer is flawless. And the action part of it is still really great as well. Yes, some of the CGI needs cleaned up, and I'm sure it will be until the moment the film hits theaters. But seriously, find something better to do than complain about a few brief seconds of not-so-great CGI in an otherwise flawless trailer.

Our destiny lies above us.


Rosie-with-the-ribbons
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 6 2014, 6:33pm


Views: 2954
     Please stop the bickering

amongst each other about opinions.
If somebody likes it or not, that is up to them.
Nobody has the one opinion.

This isn't just for you, Smaug Report, but also the others in this thread.

If you don't like the opinion of somebody, just ignore it.

Thanks!


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 6 2014, 6:33pm


Views: 3112
     Yes - me

Thought I had better stop watching before I wear it out, but that is amazing. Intense - and focused so much on character.

Breathtaking - far too much to take in at once (or three or six times or....)


greenbalrog
Bree

Nov 6 2014, 6:33pm


Views: 3214
     Saruman, White Council, Elrond, Sauron, Galadriel, the 9, Gandalf

Oh I know I'm so gonna love this!


Arannir
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 6:33pm


Views: 3145
     Thank you!

 

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Nov 6 2014, 6:33pm


Views: 3242
     looks to me

like he knocked her bow out of her hand, actually.

I had to watch it about eight times to pause right at that moment (as if I needed an excuse to watch it lol Angelic) but there's a blurred recurve bow tip in one of the frames. I'm an archer (who also has a recurve bow) and I know that Tauriel has one too, so that's how I could tell what the blurred object is in her hand.

He's DEFINITELY pissed at her, that's for sure! Now it remains to be seen whether he's pissed because she left Mirkwood, or because of that awful shot of her and Kili exchanging his runestone Crazy



tsmith675
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:34pm


Views: 3159
     What about that people can't *like* it...

without being called sheeps...

Our destiny lies above us.


adt100
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:34pm


Views: 3130
     No, because it genuinely is first rate and anyone who says it's "atrocious" is frankly idiotic.//

 


Olorin2607
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 6:35pm


Views: 3111
     Dito 10000 %

Really people... just try to see the love and heart this trailer evokes... the line deliverys esp. of Thorin and Dwalin make me cry...


Elarie
Grey Havens

Nov 6 2014, 6:35pm


Views: 3124
     Oh my goodness!

I think I forgot to breathe. Fantastic!

__________________

Farewell hope,
and with hope
farewell fear.

John Milton


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:35pm


Views: 3107
     Mabye


In Reply To
Has to do with scale. Look at the Dol Guldur orcs, they're practical because they'll be fighting the elves. The orcs fighting the dwarves are CG because of scale issues. You can't easily find fifty stunt performers who are all over 7ft tall.


I see what you're saying. At the same time there were CGI orcs in places when they weren't fighting any dwarves in the previous movies. And I still think they could find different methods to pull it off on film with real actors whether it be size doubles for the dwarves or even green screening separate fights. Or even having smaller orcs in some places.

One things for sure on this thread already is the courtesy of everyone seems to be quite lessened as of late (Not you, Carne). Everyone here arguing against the CGI or defending it needs to maintain a respectful level of conversation.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


cats16
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 6:35pm


Views: 3076
     Very much so

I've so far held myself to three, to not wear it out like you said. I am surprised, actually, how little CG we saw in the trailer. I'm really starting to see what PJ meant by the battle being 'personal' for the most part.

Wow.

Gone for the next several hours, so hopefully I'll be back fresh then.



Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!




Thranduiliel
Bree

Nov 6 2014, 6:36pm


Views: 3164
     Well yes


In Reply To
Or portrayed as having antagonistic qualities to our heroes. He is shown to be a coward and selfish and vain. Obviously he's more complex, but his role within the narrative (at least in film 2) is as a villian.

I'm sure BOTFA will show his complexity, but it's a two minute trailer. You can't really judge based on that. Just you wait! Wink


It's his portrayal as a villain in the movies, with little explanation of his motives/history I'm objecting to. Sorry, I'm still smarting from Thranduil not being expanded on in the DoS EE. Smile

"Long will I tarry, ere I begin this war for gold. The dwarves cannot pass us, unless we will, nor do anything that we cannot mark. Let us hope still for something will bring reconciliation. Our advantage in numbers will be enough, if in the end it must come to unhappy blows.”

Not so warmongery! I take your point, it's a 2 minute trailer - I hope what we've seen of him is prior to him seeing the plight of Laketown, rather than his son teaching him the errors of his ways. And I still don't know what to make of him vs Tauriel!

But yes, of course, I shall wait and see...Wink


(This post was edited by Thranduiliel on Nov 6 2014, 6:37pm)


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 6 2014, 6:36pm


Views: 3086
     Because there's noting wrong with the CGI.

I watch that I don't see special effects at all - just Middle Earth, and glimpses of the way the story will unfold.


adt100
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:36pm


Views: 3069
     Very well said indeed!

It's hard not to get sucked into such comments and almost take them personally when you are so passionate about something, but I think the best thing to do with such gripes is ignore them. If they they don't like it then fine, don't see the film. It will not stop my enjoyment of this one ioata.

Trolls.... they're very commonplace in Middle Earth you know. ;)


Macfeast
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 6:37pm


Views: 3067
     I dislike that too, of course.

But I hadn't seen that side of it yet when I wrote my post. Didn't mean to suggest that only one side was unfairly treated.


(This post was edited by Macfeast on Nov 6 2014, 6:38pm)


Smaug Report
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 6:37pm


Views: 3119
     There is no bad CG in these films, period.

And I am not a mindless defender of CG, because there are clearly horrible fx shots in films all the time.

I'm also not a mindless apologist. It's clear, that the same 3-5 posters who pop up like whack-a-moles with the same boring, nonsense every time there is a chance to rain on people's parades is not an accident, and it is nauseating.

So is the fact that TORN'S mod's allow these people to spew their nonsense by "protecting their opinions", which are clearly not mere opinions, but provoking, obnoxious nonsense, and they know they can get away with it, because if anyone DARES offer criticism of THEIR post, they are banned or warned for flaming.

Weak. So the bashers can bash FX artists who are PEOPLE, and PJ and his CREW which are PEOPLE, but we can't bash the bashers back, because well, they're people!

How anyone could watch that trailer and say it's atrocious is laughable. LAUGHABLE.

I will show you revenge...

(This post was edited by Ataahua on Nov 6 2014, 8:30pm)


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:38pm


Views: 3054
     Except

in LOTR it is "army bread for a single purpose...to destroy the world of men..."

so not the same really.


Smaug Report
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 6:40pm


Views: 3060
     everyone has a right to an opinion and this is mine.

If you have a problem with that, feel free to ban me. I will gladly leave your site.

I will show you revenge...


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:40pm


Views: 3029
     I admire your bravery

 


Farficom
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 6:41pm


Views: 3044
     Final trailer.

It is finally here along with a lot of feels. The shot of all the Dwarves with Bilbo in the back we have seen before, but the falling statue makes that shot much more poignant. SARUMAN, bats, and the Dwalin line... Oh, my. The Fili and Kili moment is incredibly touching, but on the other hand trolls with catapults on their backs seem very weird. In the end I must say that Alfrid making an appearance is the most surprising, and the Tauriel/Thrandy moment has me wondering what is going on there.


I like the trailer, and will have to study it a lot more.


(This post was edited by Farficom on Nov 6 2014, 6:46pm)


HiddenSpring
Lorien

Nov 6 2014, 6:42pm


Views: 3039
     Take a pill

Your insecurities are showing. Let everyone like or dislike the film as they please. Me? Found the aesthetics iffy as always, but some of the dramatic elements are breathtaking. Dol Guldur in particular seems beautifully staged.


Arannir
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 6:42pm


Views: 3081
     No words :(

TORN ist right now the worst place to discuss this trailer.

What has happened?

It is so, so sad.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



aifeme
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 6:44pm


Views: 2989
     It's astonishing !!!

Oh my, this is perfectSmile

TORn lurker since 2002:]


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:44pm


Views: 2969
     Ôhe bravest and most true post

i have seen in TORN.

"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"

(This post was edited by NecromancerRising on Nov 6 2014, 6:45pm)


Bishop
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:45pm


Views: 2987
     Great trailer, honestly

Exciting stuff, well crafted trailer. But I can't stave off this feeling of dread about the movie itself.


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 6:45pm


Views: 2990
     Different capabilities of suspension of belief.

I grew up on creature features from the 50s with rubber-suited monsters and string-propelled spaceships so modern cgi is just totally awesome to me!

I'm so grateful I'm not a jaded millennial. Kinda sad for them.

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Bofur01
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 6:45pm


Views: 3345
     I just ran it through in iMovie...

Frame-by-frame, and Tauriel seems to have had an arrow on her bow aimed at Thranduil!


Olorin2607
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 6:46pm


Views: 3211
     Bravo!

I can only say..Bravo to you!


davidjUK
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 6:48pm


Views: 3196
     Agree


In Reply To
is that people keep complaining about 'bad CG' which clearly illustrates their lack of knowledge/experience on the subject because 98% of the CG is REALLY GOOD...and what they are seeing that is 'bad' to them is the digital look of the film mixed with a lot of CG plus highly compressed internet versions of the file.

It's not that all of the CG is bad, there are a lot of other factors involved.


Absolutely agree. Even if there is some "bad CGI", I notice CGI that doesn't look great in the Lord of the Rings films. The Rohirrim charging at the Mumakil is one shot that sticks in my head, and CGI Legolas taking down the mumakil, but I don't start criticizing all of the CGI or the film in general.

Some people are just very negative.


TheSexyBeard
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 6:48pm


Views: 3226
     Finally!

Watched the leaked version earlier but couldn't make out a lot (really low quality) so it great to finally see it how its meant to be seen.

Great trailer, nice to see some good character moments, Dwalin being honnest with Thorin, stressed Kili and worried Bilbo. The action scene were good, I'm really surprised that we didn't actually see Smaug at all though. I thought we would at least seen him airborne. I'm surprised by some comments about the CGI, for the most part I think it's great, the only two moments that seem off to me are the elves in front of Thranduil (on Megalocerous! Smile) and Bard and the close up of that white, fat orc or troll thing.

I'm sort of surprised to see Legolas fighting Bolg, I thought PJ mentioned somewhere that Beorn and Bolg would fight?

Yes, my username is terrible.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 6:48pm


Views: 3211
     It's almost ironic isn't it?

That these films contain such strong themes surrounding the impact of industrialization and the destruction of the natural landscapes and yet The Hobbit has replaced 90% of these natural landscapes with artificial creations. Tongue


Scorchster
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 6:48pm


Views: 3183
     Agreed.

All this fighting over the CG is spoiling what should have been a wonderful and respectful discussion of all this vast new material we've just seen.


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:49pm


Views: 3190
     wonderful perspective

this generation is so desensitized and spoiled that it is impossible to appreciate anything...even something as breathtaking as the world PJ has created.

It's TRAGIC!!!


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:50pm


Views: 3171
     well you could argue

that they wanted to lessen the footprint on shooting actual locations!

That said, I don't think The Hobbit trilogy is a lesson in restraint/simplicity by any means.


(This post was edited by Lindele on Nov 6 2014, 6:51pm)


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Nov 6 2014, 6:50pm


Views: 3250
     All the long shots of hordes in a wide landscape...

...look totally fake. The shot with all the arrows fired at once? Impossible. Yes, I know they're Elves and Elves are magical, but it looks fake.

The character shots look great, and all the drama appears right. I'm just hoping they get the CGI fixed in the movie.








Retro315
Rivendell

Nov 6 2014, 6:51pm


Views: 3167
     Re

In general CGI irritates me bigtime. Which isn't to say that as CGI goes, Weta doesn't do the best job. And there is plenty of it here, and for many people anything more than its minor supplemental use has lost its luster. (This is why we're all tap-dancing at the promise of actual puppeteers and costumers getting trade work in Star Wars: The Force Awakens).

That said, nothing here looked atrocious to me. Or I should say - nothing looked "any more or any less atrocious" than any other previous Middle-earth trailers. There's such a massive difference in quality between, say, the DOS trailer (which featured unfinished elves, as we'll recall) and the finished product. And when I say "finished product" I mean the Extended Edition next year.

Think how bad Azog looked compared to the AUJ: EE. I'm sure those trolls will be refined. Think how much better the color-grading gets once it gets looked over again a second time.

Anyway, what did I especially like here? The thriller character focus and really quick action shots were nice. The threat of violence against a lot of characters was nice. The locations are nice - I'm less keen on the detours made in the second film (where have I heard that before?) but somehow the expansion of the "Big Battle" doesn't bother me especially much. Proper cinematic battles where Tolkien described them minimally are where P.J. has traditionally done good work. Splitting narratives and adding plot elements, not so much.

I have a feeling in spite of my favorite book moments happening in the last film, I'll like this one more. Erebor and the surrounding lands feel more solid and laid out and fleshed out and like they'll be explored. Ravenhill! We see plenty of old Ravenhill here. That brief shot of the overlook from Ravenhill of the burning Lake-town and Dale to the east is epic.

So the trailer ...

I'm glad to see more trolls. It breaks up the shapes in the army but also ties back to the three trolls in the first encounter, and then links to Fellowship quite well.

The bats! They actually surprised me. I remember P.J. saying he was going to do some "creature" stuff but it never occurred to me that the bats would be anything more than set-dressing. But those giant bats are a proper fantasy creature and are also right out of Sauron's history in The Silmarillion, where when he sacked the tower of Tol-in-Gaurhoth he filled it with his personal pets - werewolves and vampire bats. So it's lovely to see the wargs and bats of Gundabad really reflect that.

Speaking of Gundabad, it definitely has that "Orcish Capital" feeling. I like the rust red of Misty Mountain iron, it's a different color-scheme than we've seen. Even if it's just Leggy and Tauriel spying on the place briefly, it's nice art direction.

I'm generally excited to explore more of the interior of Erebor, as much so as the frozen exterior. We can double-dip with character beats and drama even as the funnier characters just generally "show us around".

Azog in armor looks fierce. That last shot of him vs. Thorin looks great. All the ice feels good and thematically poignant. Cold hearts and all that. Revenge being a dish best served on a frozen river. I'm just glad to see him put a shirt and some wools on. Being a Gundabad orc I guess the cold doesn't bother him much - I do appreciate the art team loading him up with classical "Barbarian" fashion, though.

There's not much else to comment on since it's mostly the primary players. OF COURSE Thranduil is a villain, that's the whole point. But the quick glimpses of Bard hanging on for dear life to his longbow and a big, black arrow are very promising to me. I genuinely don't want him to kill Smaug with that ballista, it will be very upsetting if he earns that Elf-respect with anything other than his massive longbow.


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 6:52pm


Views: 3190
     TORn's mods are the absolute worst...

...except for all the mods on all the other sites on the net.

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Retro315
Rivendell

Nov 6 2014, 6:52pm


Views: 3142
     Re

That's no trouble - it just means Bolg probably wins the fight!


Scorchster
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 6:53pm


Views: 3109
     Heh, true...

However, to be fair, it's not like many of the fantastical locations in the Hobbit story have suitable replacements in the real world.

Still, I was surprised to learn that the whole eagles and carrock scene in AUJ wasn't CGI, but an actual aerial shot on location!


Thranduiliel
Bree

Nov 6 2014, 6:53pm


Views: 3180
     Ooh!


In Reply To
Frame-by-frame, and Tauriel seems to have had an arrow on her bow aimed at Thranduil!


Very intriguing! Could shape up to be a great scene! Smile


(This post was edited by Thranduiliel on Nov 6 2014, 6:54pm)


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 6 2014, 6:54pm


Views: 3107
     I know what you mean....

Because I did too.


Smaug Report
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 6:54pm


Views: 3100
     100% correct

I'll give you an example-

If people had seen the spectacle and vision of even AUJ in 1995, it would have blown people's minds beyond anything they had ever seen, but now, simply with the passage of time, and an ADD, Social Media addicted generation of people who flock to Michael Bay films and have instant gratification at their disposal for any and all media in 1080p on a dozen mobile devices they can't stop twittering on , suddenly and mysteriously you have large swaths of people relegating mind-blowing visuals and cinematic visions into one note sentences of "boring." as they go write awful Thrones fan fiction and watch Naruto.

I will show you revenge...


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:55pm


Views: 3080
     heh


In Reply To
Legolas on the bats: "bred for a single purpose....war"


I did have to roll my eyes at the line. I half expected him to say "...to destroy the world of men." I don't know if they put it in there as reference to LOTR or not. It doesn't matter. Could they really not thing of something else to say instead? Or just not say anything.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Nov 6 2014, 6:55pm


Views: 3093
     Splitting hairs...

It's the "bred for a single purpose..." that hit me like a brick as soon as I heard it. Yet another nod/nudge to LotR that isn't needed, IMO
ETA cross-posted with Redgiraffe!





"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Ż Victoria Monfort


(This post was edited by Eleniel on Nov 6 2014, 6:59pm)


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 6:55pm


Views: 3095
     so much THIS !


In Reply To
TORN ist right now the worst place to discuss this trailer.

What has happened?

It is so, so sad.


not interested in discussing about it as well...
all these "HOW BAD THE CGI LOOKS" is annoying.
Funny, since that reactions were so predictable...Crazy


(This post was edited by NoelGallagher on Nov 6 2014, 6:56pm)


ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Nov 6 2014, 6:55pm


Views: 3135
     Fake CGI or highly stylized photography?

I don't think any looks fake per se. Everything just has a very etherial, stylized look to it. The cgi itself is state of the art imho. Nothing in this trailer looks any worse to me than the battle at pellenore.


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:55pm


Views: 3069
     i think most of the time

people don't really know the difference between actual environments/sets/CGI...there is so much stitched together that often one shot contains all three....and this happened in LOTR constantly. The difference is that the clarity of the imagery in The Hobbit is much higher, and that there is in fact quite a bit more CGI.


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 6:56pm


Views: 3075
     the way people act


In Reply To
Unimpressed

Both sides.


I completely agree with you. Everyone seems to be acting like children around here. Let's stop the name calling and assumptions and anger on both sides and just agree to disagree.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Boromir Stark
Rivendell

Nov 6 2014, 6:56pm


Views: 3170
     Several points of note for me:

1) The Nine look AWESOME!
2) Elrond is wicked.
3) The brief clip of a flaming Sauron standing atop those stairs gave me chills.
4) Galadriel clutching at Elrond's leg as Saruman turns towards Sauron? Odd to see her looking so vulnerable, no?
5) I wonder who the big white pot-bellied troll is. Is he even a troll at all? Might be he's the commander of the Gundabad army.
6) Thranduil fighting Tauriel?
7) Also, Tauriel getting whooped by Bolg. My guess is Bolg kills Kili and Tauriel comes to his rescue.
8) Looking like Legolas gets to kill Bolg. Unless Bolg whoops him and Beorn intervenes.
9) Is that a standard arrow that Bard uses to stop himself falling off the roof? He's also clutching a bow in his other hand... I'm guessing he uses his bow to kill Smaug.


(This post was edited by Rosie-with-the-ribbons on Nov 6 2014, 8:19pm)


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:57pm


Views: 3105
     I'm just happy that Gandalf

HAS HIS STAFF FROM LOTR!!!!


adu
Bree

Nov 6 2014, 6:58pm


Views: 3066
     I agree...

The dramatic beats seem right and I'm sure the CGI will be tweaked a bit for for the final film. I give credit to PJ that despite knowing full well what happens in the book, I'm still incredibly excited to see how it's presented on film...because it will always be different than how each reader imagines it (and so it should be I feel). Yes there are changes, but no change yet has taken me totally out of the movie or the story that remains untold.

Very excited.


Bofur01
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 6:58pm


Views: 2727
     I also noticed that...

There seems to be a statue-like thing over Galadriel and Gandalf, in the shot with the Nine... It looks like it's holding a palantír!


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 6:59pm


Views: 2688
     This

 


Smaug Report
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 6:59pm


Views: 2708
     or you could simply watch a trailer like a normal person

And not freeze frame it, saying it's terrible, when the film isn't even done yet.

I will show you revenge...


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 7:00pm


Views: 2670
     Never to sail the Spanish Main...

...in a cardboad box with old gift wrap tubes for cannons.

Yes, very tragic.Unsure

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


BlackFox
Half-elven


Nov 6 2014, 7:00pm


Views: 2676
     Superb!

O December, where art thou? TongueSmile



(This post was edited by BlackFox on Nov 6 2014, 7:01pm)


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Nov 6 2014, 7:00pm


Views: 2730
     Surprised by the focus on CGI in reactions...

...because first and foremost I was overwhelmed by all the drama in the trailer.

Not that people aren't entitled to focus/criticize on whatever pops out to them, because certainly they are. I just didn't come away from this myself reacting to the VFX. It was all the moments, i.e.: "You gave a promise...", "You cannot see what you have become", "Leave Sauron to ME", etc. that made an immediate impression on me. Smile

That said, I think the VFX are pretty spectacular myself, aside from literally one or two bits that could use a little more work.

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen

(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Nov 6 2014, 7:03pm)


Guert
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 7:01pm


Views: 2710
     LET'S TALK ABOUT THE REAL STUFF :

SARUMAN : "Leave Sauron to me"

That is some real stuff happening isn't it ? And this shots with the ghoslty armored Nazguls surrounding Gandalf and Galadriel. And all those character moments... Bilbo, DWALIN !!! This line was so heartbreaking... Bard, Gandalf... Elrond drawing his sword, Legolas fighting Bolg.

This film will be awesome, I'm sure.


TheSexyBeard
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 7:01pm


Views: 2659
     You might be right!

I just assumed Legolas would win round 2. Bolg could win, and knock Legolas away, or the fight could be intervened by something. I'm guessing Bolg attacks Tauriel and Legolas jumps in, or the other way round (Tauriel is crouching over a body in one shot, you can see the feet).

Yes, my username is terrible.


macfalk
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 7:01pm


Views: 2704
     Two questions

1. What is Gandalf saying in the end?

2. Is this CGI finished? I hope they patch it up a little bit because some of it looks pretty unfinished.


That troll was pretty damn ugly.

The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


BlackFox
Half-elven


Nov 6 2014, 7:02pm


Views: 2633
     Ditto. //

 



Smaug's Fire
The Shire

Nov 6 2014, 7:02pm


Views: 2692
     A couple questions

It's been a year or so since I last read the Hobbit, so if I am being forgetful, correct me!
1. What is Thranduil coming to reclaim?
2. "This is the last move in a master plan.." What? What plan? Sauron's? Where are those Orcs going, into firery holes?
3. Gundabad? Bats? How did Legolas and Tauriel get their so fast? What role is Gundabad playing?
4. Frozen waterfall?

I did enjoy the trailer however, these are just a few questions I had after watching!


Shagrat
Gondor

Nov 6 2014, 7:03pm


Views: 2667
     Giant Projectile-Shooting Contraptions at 1:26

Pause it and you'll see those are Dwarves of the Iron Hills manning them. So evidently this is a misleading sequence of events, to have us believe that the Elves are exchanging volleys with them.


phij2
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 7:03pm


Views: 2649
     aaaaack

i just can't wait.

Please i need it to come out now, this very precise exact minute. Now i tell you now,

breathes deeply, okay maybe in two minutesSly


Smaug Report
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 7:04pm


Views: 2645
     No thanks

I don't need a pill. And there are no insecurities here.

I am not some PS4 fanboy who turns red in the face if someone likes an Xbox ONE. Nobody is going to lessen my enjoyment of these films, and no, they are not perfect and I myself have some issues with them.

But, what it's true is true, and what is right is right, and if nobody else can smell the BS here, I sure can. I'm not afraid to call it out either. This isn't about opinions either.

There is a way to state an opinion in a way that is mature, adult, intelligent and fair, even if it's very negative. That I don't have a problem with. You hate the movies? Try actually making a compelling argument why supported by facts and in a way that is not so completely transparently provoking and obviously baiting.

I will show you revenge...


TheSexyBeard
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 7:04pm


Views: 2641
     Well,

It is a troll. Tongue

But if you mean the fat one that gets a close up, I thought he could have looked a bit better, I liked the catapult ones though.

Yes, my username is terrible.


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 7:04pm


Views: 2612
     Yeah...

Earth vs. the Flying Saucers (1956) is still a favorite. Turn off the lights and grab some buttered popcorn. Wonderful!

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.

(This post was edited by Darkstone on Nov 6 2014, 7:05pm)


Loresilme
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 7:04pm


Views: 2643
     And that he's the one who says it

After all along he's been right there with Thorin. That really hit me too.


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Nov 6 2014, 7:05pm


Views: 2617
     those are her boots

they certainly aren't big enough to be dwarf feet Smile



redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 7:07pm


Views: 2604
     understanding


In Reply To
And I am not a mindless defender of CG, because there are clearly horrible fx shots in films all the time.

I'm also not a mindless apologist. It's clear, that the same 3-5 posters who pop up like whack-a-moles with the same boring, nonsense every time there is a chance to rain on people's parades is not an accident, and it is nauseating.

So is the fact that TORN'S mod's allow these people to spew their nonsense by "protecting their opinions", which are clearly not mere opinions, but provoking, obnoxious nonsense, and they know they can get away with it, because if anyone DARES offer criticism of THEIR post, they are banned or warned for flaming.

Weak. So the bashers can bash FX artists who are PEOPLE, and PJ and his CREW which are PEOPLE, but we can't bash the bashers back, because well, they're people!

I am sad to say I have found Tolkien fans to be the most smug, uptight, arrogant, impossible to please, insufferable brats in fandom, and I will not miss this site.

How anyone could watch that trailer and say it's atrocious is laughable. LAUGHABLE.


You have to understand that you are perceiving them as coming off that way. Someone offered their opinion on the matter and then personal attacks started on both sides. When personal attacks start on both sides that's where it becomes a problem.

I saw nothing wrong with any of those first posts commenting on the CGI. They expressed their dislike for it and that was all. Sure they might have a habit of posting negative things about the hobbit trilogy. That might be because they do not enjoy the way it has turned out. It's the same thing as someone always posting positive things about the trilogy. It's because they like the trilogy.

This argument has quickly deteriorated into personal attacks among posters on both sides and to me THAT makes the board a negative experience.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 7:07pm


Views: 2586
     Not misleading

IIRC, the wording in this chapter of the book leaves it ambiguous over whether the dwarves and elves have begun shooting at one another before Gandalf intervenes.

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


LadyEmmaE
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 7:08pm


Views: 2670
     So I assume the death of.... *spoilers*

... Kili, will go something like this?

1) Fights in battle
2) Gets injured badly, possibly protecting Thorin/Fili/Tauriel
3) Sees Tauriel (I beliieve that was him lying in her arms?)
4) Gives Tauriel the talizman that Dis gave to him
5) Tauriel goes to Dis to give it back (assuming she lives), then hops on a ship to the Gray Havens or wherever.

Anyways, the trailer was great! Loved the Thorin and Kili headbutt thing.


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 7:08pm


Views: 2556
     dont worry


In Reply To
TORN ist right now the worst place to discuss this trailer.

What has happened?

It is so, so sad.


the admins are probably going to come in and clean all of this up. They're very good at putting a swift end to these sorts of things.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Lissuin
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 7:09pm


Views: 2594
     4) Galadriel

is sobbing behind Elrond as Saruman says "Leave Sauron to me". It is an interesting choice to show her vulnerability. But then she was magnificent in her LOTR scene of temptation by the ring, which she overcame. Elves are after all, as described by Tolkien, full of extreme passions of all varieties. Dol Guldur will have wonderful moments, it seems. And Elrond looks fabulous and strong, Saruman very powerful.

Great trailer!


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 7:09pm


Views: 2573
     How sinister... /

 

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea


Nov 6 2014, 7:10pm


Views: 2552
     I'm just a couple years behind you Darkstone

But I remember the same kinds of "special effects". Who could forget Jason and the Argonauts! (Although Ray Harryhausen was a legend in my book).

Like you I was blown away by this trailer. The visuals are breathtaking to me! I love they way they set up each major piece of the story too.

I have a list of things to bring to the theatre:
- Hankies (I planned lots but I've amended that to lots and lots),
- Chocolate (I will need more of this than I thought),
- A good stiff belt of something in the scotch family (Now amended to 2 stiff belts)

How about we just sit here and wave our canes at all the young whippersnappers who find their entertainment in complaining on the internet. We know better - the entertainment will come in December! Wink



Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings






Glassary
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 7:10pm


Views: 2640
     love the emotion

Not going to wade in on the CGI debate.

But the emotions evoked are outstanding.
Dwalin confronting Thorin and agreeing with Bilbo, unexpected and great.

Elrond in armor, the entire Dol Guldur scenes...wonderful.
Literally the gangs all here and ready to rock.

Thranduil still mysterious but epic. PJ has said that he is the best
fighter in ME so can't wait to see this.
Also don't think he does Tauriel in. Think PJ has cut & pieced the trailer
to imply things that we will find are not true for either of them.
I think Thranduil comes upon Tauriel at Kilis side as he is dying or dead.
She reacts to someone being there and he knocks aside her bow.
Have a feeling that Tauriel doesn't die at all.

Wish could have spied Dain and some more Balin but some mystery for the film is o.k.


Elarie
Grey Havens

Nov 6 2014, 7:11pm


Views: 2573
     Well said!

Suspension of disbelief and good story telling are everything.

I also remember those rubber monster suits (with the zippers up the back), and I have to remind myself sometimes just how far special effects have come and how the most amazing CGI now looks ordinary to me. I'm just really happy that Middle Earth has been so beautifully created on film, since I can remember a time when it was literally impossible to do this.

__________________

Farewell hope,
and with hope
farewell fear.

John Milton


caglarkuraner
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 7:11pm


Views: 2591
     What is say??

00:43 Gandalf ?


(This post was edited by caglarkuraner on Nov 6 2014, 7:12pm)


shadowdog
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 7:11pm


Views: 2644
     I believe Jackson has said

that miniatures don't film well with the digital high speed cameras they were using to film The Hobbit.


Smaug Report
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 7:11pm


Views: 2600
     Oversimplification

This is not about opinions. You can say the sky is made of dead fish, and yeah, you have the right to your opinion, but it's clearly ridiculous.

So is saying something of this obvious overall quality is atrocious. If you think that there's nothing behind the same handful of people spewing the same nasty bile here time and time again, on a message board about films they hate yet they can't stop mysteriously posting about is just them offering their sweet little thoughts, I have some swamp property for you.

I will show you revenge...


Carne
Tol Eressea

Nov 6 2014, 7:14pm


Views: 2639
     Tauriel's double being thrown at 2:05

I like spotting these minor "goofs", which mostly end up being fixed anyways. There's also a quick shot of Freeman's double Brett Sheerin in one of the AUJ trailers.

Lots of fun watching Ingrid Kleinig do her stunt scenes as Tauriel in the TDoS extras.


(This post was edited by Carne on Nov 6 2014, 7:16pm)


caglarkuraner
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 7:15pm


Views: 2559
     Gandalf?

http://youtu.be/iVAgTiBrrDA?t=42s

What is say?


(This post was edited by caglarkuraner on Nov 6 2014, 7:16pm)


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 7:16pm


Views: 2567
     Does Sauron look a bit to...small..anyone ?

Crazy


shaundobson
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 7:16pm


Views: 2565
     ermm...

trailer is alright, CGI is way over used in this i must say however, and i'm sure even the CGI defenders will agree it's abit over used, the orcs attacking the dwarves look bloody awful.

Even the locations look like a computer game and that elf army !

And the plot's i dont like, everytime i see another kili/tauriel scene it irritates me alot, but thats just my opinion. Another Bolg/legolas showdown is pointless another waisted plot.


Eruonen
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 7:17pm


Views: 2575
     Agree, I was first captured by the emotional aspects

and the intensity. Sure, a few designs I questioned but overall it was a terrific trailer. I am sure he did not show us Thranduil cutting Tauriel's head off. I do see her thrown against a stone wall....who knows...but I doubt
we will see a spoiler in the trailer. The freeze frame on the Dol Guldur circle scene is great. Shining silver armour clad warriors / council members and Saruman is terrific.


BlackFox
Half-elven


Nov 6 2014, 7:17pm


Views: 2523
     "This was the last move in a master plan, a plan long in the making." //

 



There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 7:17pm


Views: 2509
     Sacrifice quality of film to protect the environment

I know that this time around the filmmakers didn't want to impact the NZ landscape so instead chose to shoot more plates and marry those with the actors on greenscreen.

So what we get is the movies we are getting and that's okay for me because traveling around the NZ countryside it would be a shame to have that being trampled on and big filming trucks carving big roads into the natural landscape.

Also, I think PJ and the main filmmakers don't want to travel as much. If they can film "almost" everything in the studio why not? There is a such a big infrastructure in Wellington. It's also cheaper.

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 7:18pm


Views: 2503
     Oh, yeah!!


In Reply To
But I remember the same kinds of "special effects". Who could forget Jason and the Argonauts!


I was nine or ten when I saw the trailer on TV with the skeleton army and thought it was the most awesome thing I ever had seen!! I just had to see it!!! Mowed lawns all week so I could go to the Saturday showing. Went in when they opened at noon and saw it again and again till the theater closed at midnight.

Ah, the wonderment!!

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 7:18pm


Views: 2523
     Agreed


In Reply To
Not going to wade in on the CGI debate.

But the emotions evoked are outstanding.
Dwalin confronting Thorin and agreeing with Bilbo, unexpected and great.

Elrond in armor, the entire Dol Guldur scenes...wonderful.
Literally the gangs all here and ready to rock.

Thranduil still mysterious but epic. PJ has said that he is the best
fighter in ME so can't wait to see this.
Also don't think he does Tauriel in. Think PJ has cut & pieced the trailer
to imply things that we will find are not true for either of them.
I think Thranduil comes upon Tauriel at Kilis side as he is dying or dead.
She reacts to someone being there and he knocks aside her bow.
Have a feeling that Tauriel doesn't die at all.

Wish could have spied Dain and some more Balin but some mystery for the film is o.k.


CGI aside the emotion definitely looks great. A problem I had with the last two, especially DOS, was too much focus on action and not enough on characters. Judging from this trailer it looks like a lot of focus on character. I'm excited to see how it all plays out.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 7:20pm


Views: 2470
     I know


In Reply To
that miniatures don't film well with the digital high speed cameras they were using to film The Hobbit.


I know PJ has said that. The problem for me is that I still don't like it. He could have had many reasons for doing so and they can all be justified. Still, it doesn't look as good to me, and I would have preferred him to have filmed it the old way. I think it would have looked a lot better, IMO.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 7:21pm


Views: 2491
     Where is Gandalf in the shoot with Saruman,Elrond and Galadriel ???

 


mo0on-light
The Shire

Nov 6 2014, 7:21pm


Views: 2473
     EPIC

that what i call an epic trailer .. why no one talked about the background trailer .. is soo amazing i really can't wait to get soundtrack cover ... but i really have question to peter is why do you hate fili so much none of any three over trailer did ever show him i really wish to know why all of scenes only for kili but not to fili don't you think he deserve more scenes as much as kili

(This post was edited by Altaira on Nov 9 2014, 7:28pm)


Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 7:21pm


Views: 2469
     Finally!

Something worthwhile to discuss. Here's what I think:

1.) In the book the Elvenking wants a share of the hoard, both because he believes that some of his own wealth is in the mountain, and because he wants to help out the homeless Lakemen. In the filmverse, we were shown his desire for the Nauglamir-esque gems from the AUJ EE prologue, which is presumably what he's after here.

2.) Gandalf is referring to Sauron's master plan. The orcs appear to be entering tunnels that will allow them to approach the Mountain unseen while the Free Peoples quarrel.

3.) In the book, bats block out the sun during the battle and allow the goblins to march and fight during the day. Here they appear to be closer to the Thuringwethil-style vampire-bat creatures of the Silmarillion than to those we saw in AUJ streaming out of Dol Guldur. Mount Gundabad was the primary orc-hold in the North of the Misty Mountains. It's where the hunters under Azog and Bolg come from in the film-verse. It looks like it operated as Sauron's secondary base under Azog's command. Legolas and Tauriel probably track Bolg there following the destruction of Laketown. The forces of Azog marching from Dol Guldur and the forces of Bolg marching from Mt. Gundabad will likely meet up and flank the unsuspecting Free Folk at some point.

4.) Not really sure about where this frozen waterfall is meant to be. Presumably somewhere in the environs of Dale or Ravenhill. Unless it's near Mt. Gundabad?

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


Boromir Stark
Rivendell

Nov 6 2014, 7:22pm


Views: 2440
     Harryhausen's stop-motion fantasy movies are still the best fantasy movies for me.

His creatures weren't just monsters for the heroes to fight - they were characters of their own.

Jason and the Argonauts, Clash of the Titans, the Sinbad Trilogy... All fantastic monster movies.

If you liked those you should check out Jack the Giant Killer. Not a Harryhausen movie, but made by the same director and with some of the same actors as The 7th Voyage of Sinbad. The effects aren't anywhere near as good as Harryhausen's movies, but it's still a very good fantasy flick.


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 7:25pm


Views: 2413
     except for the one

where 'someone' blatantly called anyone who liked the trailer 'sheepish' and would love anything PJ does...that one was a bit aggressive and I wouldn't blame anyone for taking offense.


iduna
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 7:25pm


Views: 2425
     Agree with you -- fantastic!

I felt like I could hear Dwalin's heartbreak there -- so much emotion! He's been so loyal to Thorin for so long, to have to realize that Thorin is not himself must have been devastating.

Loved seeing Elrond, Saruman and Galadriel facing off against the Nine in Dol Guldur! That will be epic.

Not sure how Tauriel/Kili thing is going to play out, though. It looks like Kili is giving Tauriel the runestone while they're standing on a gravel shore (somewhere near Laketown?). He's not lying down, he's just very short. He may be thanking her for healing him, and saying that he's going back to join the others in Erebor.

Then Tauriel and Thranduil seem to be in Dale, with all that snow.


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 7:26pm


Views: 2391
     Also safety.

We forget all the injuries to cast and stunties in the LOTR films. I sometime wince at the scenes I know where someone was hurt.

CGI orcs don't get broken limbs or concussions. That's a good thing.

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 7:26pm


Views: 2407
     another try

where is Gandalf in the shot were Saruman says:

"Leave Sauron to me" ?!?


BornOutOfTheWest
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 7:26pm


Views: 2421
     Wow,

Just got back so a little late with the reactions but WOW. 10X better than the teaser trailer, and one of the best trailers of the 6 films! Loved seeing some Dol Guldur actions, should be so epic with Saruman throwing it down with Sauron!


Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 7:28pm


Views: 2357
     Yea!

Didn't Bernard Hill accidentally cut off a piece of someone's ear during the "brace the gate" scene in TTT?

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 7:29pm


Views: 2735
     This is my last post on this debate


In Reply To
This is not about opinions. You can say the sky is made of dead fish, and yeah, you have the right to your opinion, but it's clearly ridiculous.

So is saying something of this obvious overall quality is atrocious. If you think that there's nothing behind the same handful of people spewing the same nasty bile here time and time again, on a message board about films they hate yet they can't stop mysteriously posting about is just them offering their sweet little thoughts, I have some swamp property for you.


I can't remember the last time I posted a positive post about the hobbit movies on TORN. I think it's safe to say I'm probably one of those posters that is usually negative.

My opinion of these movies have been quite negative, and that shows in my posts. And I can tell you there's nothing behind me posting about the same negative things in most of the threads. I'm simply offering my opinion. You can think whatever you like about the other posters on this board, but you still have no proof of what they are thinking.

Most importantly, if you truly think they are trolls, then continuously posting about it in the thread is not the proper way to handle it. It seems quite clear the only thing that has happened here is a big fight. My advice is either engage the person respectfully, or ignore them and contact an admin if you think they are trolling.

That's it. I'm done arguing about the arguing on this thread. I've already overstepped my bounds trying to keep things civil. Everyone needs to re-read the sticky at the top of the board again.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Noria
Gondor

Nov 6 2014, 7:31pm


Views: 2720
     Me too, Darkstone and it is kind of sad

For me special effects are always an adjunct to the story, a means to an end rather than the raison d’etre.

AUJ and Dos made extensive use of CGI characters and environments, so why would anyone expect anything different in the final installment? I don't get why people pause the video just to seek out moments they can criticize.

As for the trailer, I loved it, especially the glimpses of so many character moments that will give this film heart and feeling in the midst of all the spectacle. If this trailer is any indication, the final movie will be fantastic.

As usual, those of us who love the previous movies are likely to have loved this trailer. And the converse.


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 7:31pm


Views: 2690
     Yeah

Some sets in LOTR I would have sworn were real turned out to be cgi, and some sets I thought were cgi turned out to be real locations.

Go fig!

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Macfeast
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 7:32pm


Views: 2698
     Ok, now that I have had time to gather my thoughts.

A very somber, serious, and dramatic trailer. Very fitting. As I mentioned prior, not necessarily my favorite trailer... but it is up there among them.

The makeshift barricade that the dwarves put up is very impressive; Not only does it block the hole in the wall, it also has a stairway leading up for the defenders! That's some impressive last-minute stonemasonry.

Is it Gundabad that the orcs are entering, and if so, why are they entering, not leaving? Also, is the bat-place a part of it, or is it another location entirely?

The Nine? Yes. Elrond? Yes! Saruman going up against Sauron? OH YES! I can't wait to see what the Dol Guldur-storyline is going to bring.

Surprised to see Dwalin, Thorin's "staunchest supporter", stand up to Thorin like that. Of course, that just makes the effect even more powerful, and Dwalin looks and sounds absolutely heartbroken.

Bard with a bow and arrow? Might the windlance be a red herring after all?

Ok, seriously, those are some menacing-looking bats.

The view from Ravenhill is pretty fantastic.

Legolas vs. Bolg, huh? I do hope Legolas is not the one to land the killing blow.

Finally... could someone tell Thorin to button up that V-neck of his?


BlackFox
Half-elven


Nov 6 2014, 7:36pm


Views: 2677
     Rate the trailer on Pollantir

http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=791879#791879



Glassary
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 7:36pm


Views: 2659
     Love Harrry H movies

As a child the best scene was the skeletons in Jason & the Argonauts.
Remember thinking this was the most awesome thing ever!

Now as a older (ahem) adult I can see how basic the special effects were
but it doesn't change the magic.

I've also found that in recent years I have to remind myself not to be too critical.
It can be a case of the technology causing the problem.
If I watch a film on my older dinosaur tv, the effects look great and real.
But watching same dvd on my huge HD tv some of the effects and scenes
don't look as good.
Sometimes I think that zooming in tooooo close takes a bit of the magic out.


(This post was edited by Glassary on Nov 6 2014, 7:42pm)


Barrel_Rider
The Shire

Nov 6 2014, 7:37pm


Views: 2666
     The elf faces

look really weird in the shot at 30 seconds in, the CGI ain't to bad overall, but obviously it's bad in other places. There has been bad CGI in a few parts in every film so far in the trilogy, not that it's all bad but clearly, it is some parts.

As for the trailer, I said before, it's good. But i assume they wanna leave the Dwarf army under wraps.


(This post was edited by Altaira on Nov 9 2014, 7:31pm)


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 7:37pm


Views: 2676
     Here I go again


In Reply To
where 'someone' blatantly called anyone who liked the trailer 'sheepish' and would love anything PJ does...that one was a bit aggressive and I wouldn't blame anyone for taking offense.


Yes that is aggressive and offensive. And I do not defend that post at all. At the same time it shows that someone has a certain perception about people who are positive much like other people have perceptions about people who are negative. Perceptions are perceptions and only add fuel to the debate because they become offensive, like the comment you are referring to.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 7:38pm


Views: 2645
     Totally fair point

 


Elessar
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 7:40pm


Views: 2681
     Impressive!

Anyone notice once of the Nazgul looks like an Easterling?



NoelGallagher
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 7:40pm


Views: 2646
     once more...

any ideas where Gandalf is in the scene with Saruman speaking ?


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 7:41pm


Views: 2617
     Little to no Smaug

It's interesting that there's little to no Smaug in the trailer. Show's that the marketing people (maybe told by PJ and co) that Smaug gets offed rather quickly and isn't really the focus of film 3 at all.

Of course, the effects of Smaug are very clearly felt throughout. I'm more interested than ever to how they portray his death and the immediate aftermath.

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


macfalk
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 7:43pm


Views: 2612
     I need to know what Gandalf is saying in the end!

Gah!

The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


shaundobson
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 7:43pm


Views: 2589
     isn't he lying on the flor next to galadriel in the background?

 


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 7:43pm


Views: 2572
     hahahaha

I have no idea...no idea at all.


FiliSonOfDis
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 7:44pm


Views: 2585
     Agreed

I like Fili (obviously) and I have forgiven his lack of inclusion in the first 2 movies because i know they switched actors, but this final film when Fili SHOULD have some significant moments I'm sad to see more Kili up front and center... Fili is the next in line to the thrown, I wish this was played up more and I'll be really angry if Fili is pushed aside for Kili centric scenes. kili and tauriel fine whatever i dont like it but it's a thing so i get it but Fili being pushed aside from any serious interaction with Thorin in favor of Kili confuses me to no end. Honestly wonder why they didn't switch them and have Kili be next in line as your average movie goer probably thinks Kili is Thorins son or something at this point and Fili is his cousin. Hopefully the trailer isn't indicative of the whole movie as at least the promotional posters and stuff have been pushing Thorin, Kili, Fili as they should.

As for the trailer as a whole I loved it, yeah too much CGI but at this point was I expecting it to look like FOTR? no.


(This post was edited by FiliSonOfDis on Nov 6 2014, 7:46pm)


Macfeast
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 7:44pm


Views: 2598
     Good eyes!

And the individual designs altogether are very interesting.


Spalko
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 7:44pm


Views: 2572
     I was wondering that too

We see Galadriel holding him as the nine approach, and the next scene, same place, he is not where he was. What will happen between those scenes? Perhaps will Radagast appear and take care of him while the others fight? I remember the behind scenes video where Gandalf and Galadriel are on the ground and we can see Radagast in behind them and the sled on their left.


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 7:45pm


Views: 2545
     cant see him there


In Reply To


nowhere Unimpressed


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 7:45pm


Views: 2552
     Not me


In Reply To
Anyone notice once of the Nazgul looks like an Easterling?


I didn't notice that. I did notice they have some interesting armor designs. One of them seems to have horns that droop down on the sides. Looks awesome to me. I really can't wait to see how they turn out. They also look a little translucent. That with the white shade is making me think this is their twilight form and that they aren't simply wearing armor.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


adt100
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 7:46pm


Views: 2593
     It is pretty awesome!

I've watched it 9 times. Reaches the heights of TTT trailer which was equally stunning. Can't wait to see it with Interstellar tomorrow. :)


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 7:46pm


Views: 2579
     He says

YOU HAVE BUT ONE QUESTION TO ANSWER....
HOW SHALL THIS DAY END?


shaundobson
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 7:46pm


Views: 2537
     i agree

You don't even need to pause the video to see that all the elves have the same faces at 0:30 !!

I'm sorry but for a franchise that has cost hundreds of millions it is simply not good enough. :(


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 7:47pm


Views: 2512
     The other way round.

Gamling (Bruce Hopkins) slashed Hill's ear during the scene (some bodyguard!), though it was not severed completely. Hill also broke his sternum and later sustained a groin injury while riding his horse, which made his Pelennor scenes rather painful.

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


KeenObserver
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 7:48pm


Views: 2522
     Love it //

 

”The thirst for adventure is the vent which Destiny offers; a war, a crusade, a gold mine, a new country, speak to the imagination and offer…” - Jose Bergamin


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 7:50pm


Views: 2795
     i think its quite likely that he leaves before all is done at Dol Guldur...


In Reply To
We see Galadriel holding him as the nine approach, and the next scene, same place, he is not where he was. What will happen between those scenes? Perhaps will Radagast appear and take care of him while the others fight? I remember the behind scenes video where Gandalf and Galadriel are on the ground and we can see Radagast in behind them and the sled on their left.



Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 7:51pm


Views: 2761
     Dunno...


In Reply To
Sometimes I think that zooming in tooooo close takes a bit of the magic out.


As a kid I always used to sit front row center so I could see everything really good!!

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Nov 6 2014, 7:55pm


Views: 2721
     well, thoughts...

Fili actually calls Kili his brother in DOS, and Kili calls him brother in AUJ (though that was during the scene where Fili was walking atop the table, so it makes sense that it may have been missed there).

AND- something I loved (Kili's my favorite character in the movies, and F and K in the books, but I also wish to see more Fili) is that there's a shot of Fili looking toward the ruined Dale while riders head away from the mountain toward the city, and he's with THORIN, not Kili Sly

That gives me hope that there may be more interaction with the two of them in BO5A than there were previously Smile

But, like you, I really think that (akin to his scenes in DOS) Fili does need to come to the fore. As much as I love Kili in the role, Fili is equally amazing as a character (as I said, they were BOTH my favorite characters in the book long before the movies were even announced) and he is equally, if not more so, important to the quest as a whole.

Especially after hearing Thorin's line in the trailer, "Everything I did, I did for them." FrownFrownFrownFrownFrownFrownFrown

It's official- I'm going to be a blubbering mess by the time the credits roll in the theaters Frown



Elessar
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 7:56pm


Views: 2699
     No idea

 



Spalko
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 7:56pm


Views: 2713
     Good point, yes.

Unf! I cannot wait to watch the whole scene and see how Gandalf comes to "life", they fight the Nine and Saruman confronts Sauron.


Glassary
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 7:56pm


Views: 2689
     LOL

Remember coming home from the theater after sitting in the front row with a headache!
Would head straight for some pain killers once home.
LOL my mom would see me doing this and almost always say "told you to stop sitting
in the front row".


Wordofmask
Lorien

Nov 6 2014, 7:57pm


Views: 2689
     But

I was growing up with CGI movies since 90s and played a tons of video games that have mind blowing cgi. I still fine with cgi in this trailer not the best but good enough.


(This post was edited by Wordofmask on Nov 6 2014, 7:57pm)


Elessar
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 7:57pm


Views: 2685
     They're cool

I like the designs of the armor but that one stood out to me.



Elessar
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 7:58pm


Views: 2667
     I had to slow it down

But it was the first one I noticed.



KeenObserver
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 7:59pm


Views: 2690
     With you guys all the way - a most captivating trailer, indeed //

 

”The thirst for adventure is the vent which Destiny offers; a war, a crusade, a gold mine, a new country, speak to the imagination and offer…” - Jose Bergamin


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 7:59pm


Views: 2651
     which one


In Reply To
I like the designs of the armor but that one stood out to me.


which one is it because I'm still not seeing it?

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 7:59pm


Views: 2671
     It makes sense


In Reply To
Unf! I cannot wait to watch the whole scene and see how Gandalf comes to "life", they fight the Nine and Saruman confronts Sauron.


because i doubt Gandalf will be at full strength after getting "reanimated". I even like the idea he leaves earlier with Radagast...


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 8:01pm


Views: 2634
     I remember...

...in the first LOTR trailer (the one with the Fellowship-over-the-crest money shot), you could see the Nazgul actors' black stocking masks under their hoods. This was fixed by the time the film came out.

Remember, trailers are made from snippets of the unfinished film, and many scenes in them will probably be altered, reshot, or even removed entirely when the actual film comes out.

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


adt100
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 8:01pm


Views: 2650
     Yup, is say Smaug will be a quick/shock death in the first 15 mins.

By 'shock' I don't mean unexpected, but that people who don't know the book in particular might expect him to play a much bigger part than he actually does in the final part of the story.


Elessar
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 8:02pm


Views: 2621
     The one

straight across from Gandalf's feet has an Easterling like armor design.



Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:03pm


Views: 2749
     A couple of thoughts (includes spoilers of course)

So... I hope the heat is cooling down. I know that most of us have an emotional bond to those films and I do understand that we all want a big and great and emotional and amazing and cool final chapter in the cinematic Middle-earth saga so it's only human to react in these ways we did. But don't forget... there's a lot of stuff to talk about besides the CGI... I'm talking about plot points:

1.) DESTRUCTION OF LAKE-TOWN
I was surprised that there was no shot of Smaug at all. Not even the shot we saw in the teaser. Interesting. I'm also interested if the Master survives this destruction. We know that Alfrid will but the Master?

2.) DOL GULDUR
For me (obviously) a big part of the story and propably one of the chapters I'm looking forward the most. Elrond looks badass. Gandalf looks... well wasted. Galadriel carefull and Saruman... he's just a cool guy. I also like the shot of Sauron on the top of the stairs. I could imagine that this is the place where he disappears. Christopher Lee looks much better this time around. While the CGI on his face in AUJ was far more obvious this time he almost looks like the FOTR Saruman.

3.) THE NINE
The Nine look amazing. I can't tell which one of them the Witch-King is since neither is anyone wearing the crown he wears in AUJ nor the one he wears in FOTR nor the helmet the WK wears in ROTK. But I guess it's the big one with the wizards/sorcerers staff on the right that almost looks like Sauron. Also I believe that I can see one Haradrim (the one in the back with this strange fork like weapon). Why a Haradrim? Because my Haradrim action figure from ROTK carries a similar weapon. The "fat" one on the right with the strange helmet (actually might be a PJ cameo as TORN FB page suggests) could be an Easterling. With little imagination you can see a modified version of TTT and ROTKs Easterling helmet. Being an Easterling Nazgűl this would make him Khaműl right? Definitely a great shot. I never thought to see the Nine like this.

4.) MOUNT GUNDABAD
Finally! Oh guys... how often did I annoyed you with my wish to see Mount Gundabad in this final movie? Finally we see it. Now I'm thrilled how much of it we will see. We see the Orcs from Dol Guldur enter the tunnels, we see Legolas and Tauriel being there somehow observing the army and the bats and we see the Orc army leaving alongside Trolls and other creatures. Great! I hope we see some parts of the interior as well. The red rost looks cool. The architecture reminds me a little bit of the walls of Minas Morgul... which would be logical since both parts are connected to the Witch-King. The Bats by the way don't look like the fluffy ones we saw in AUJ. These Bats are really evil looking. Almost vampire like.

5.) AZOG & BOLG
Azog looks amazing. Again... something I posted several times since we saw him in AUJ: Please give him some kind of armor or at least a leather cloak. And finally: He gets an armor. And an amazing one. Definitely based on several concept arts we already saw in the chronicles books. His fight with Thorin looks great. Bolg on the other hand is fighting Kili, Bilbo, Tauriel and Legolas on several places. Most of it will take place on Raven Hill I guess... Fighting so many heroes... I'm not sure if there's still room for Beorn to crush him.

6.) GOBLINS
It looks like some of the Orcs (around 1:57) aren't Gundabad Orcs but Goblins from Goblin Town only with armor alongside Orcs and Trolls. Which would be (again) something I wanted to see since we saw them in AUJ. I also believe this naked something... the one who does look like a mix of Orc and Troll and might even be a Half-troll could be a Goblin instead. He definitely looks a little bit like a Goblin to me. Perhaps he is the new leader of the Goblins after the death of the Goblin King?

7.) BARD & THORIN
So before the war and even before the arrival of Thranduil there will be a negotiation between Bard and Thorin. We see both of them taling and later Bard riding his white horse back to Dale.

8.) THRANDUIL & TAURIEL
Why is Thranduil attacking Tauriel? Perhaps because she wants to protect Kili or stop Thranduil from attacking Erebor? This happens before Gandalfs arrival I guess.

9.) NO DAIN
There's no Dain at all. No hint of the Dwarves from the Iron Hills this time besides the ballistas. No war rams. I'm fine with that. There has to be something new we haven't seen before.

10.) NO FILI
There's a lot of Kili in this trailer but besides a few background appearances there's no Fili in this trailer. Interesting as well

11.) EMOTIONAL LEVEL
Well... everybody is crying. There's no funny moment at all in this trailer. It is very dark and looks very LOTR-ish to me.

There's so much more to interpret. So much more to talk about. This is our last Middle-earth movie. This is a more than worthy trailer. Go to the cinemas. One or two or three or as many times you want and enjoy it. I definitely will.


"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:05pm


Views: 2645
     If that's an Easterling...

... it has to be Khaműl right?

"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


Olorin2607
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 8:08pm


Views: 2614
     Some observations:

- The Nine look very intriguing. Much better than the witchking in AUJ. Where is HE btw?

- Saruman has quite yellow teeth himself :D poor raddy..

-Sauron seems to be more "physical" than in DOS or is it just me?

-that statue in Dol Guldur in the middle.. Palantir anyone?!!

- The big trollish guy.. I think he might be the leader of the scout party of orcs/ goblins tha come to Dale before the real battle begins. He seems to be a relative to the Goblin King

- The Elven army really needs to be touched up CGI wise a bit ;)

- Laketown on flames will be a treat in 48fps

- Behind Bard on the tower with the ballista lies his BOW Smile


aifeme
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:08pm


Views: 2570
     Yes. Why would they do that??

At first I didn't notice that. Stil think that this trailer is really, really good, I mean I love itSmile But s it too difficult to put some men in elven armor in front of the green screen?

TORn lurker since 2002:]


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 8:08pm


Views: 2599
     nice youre finally there, Lieutenant :) !

we actually discussed, though in a very small group (Wink )
where Gandalf is in the shot with Saruman,Elrond and Galadriel ?!

Do you think it is possible he leaves after the fight with the Nine, maybe together with Radagast ?!


Joe20
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 8:08pm


Views: 2614
     So I can't have an opinion?

 


Arandir
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:11pm


Views: 2560
     You may be right, but there's one thing ...

That shot of Kili giving Tauriel the talisman seems to take place next to a source of water (the high angle shot on Kili's face shows it just off screen towards the left).

This got me thinking that maybe that shot takes place after that attack on Lake-town and Kili leaves Tauriel to join his uncle and the other Dwarves in Erebor.

Just a guess of course Smile

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
Why we Love 'Sherlock'
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


(This post was edited by Arandir on Nov 6 2014, 8:16pm)


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 8:11pm


Views: 2572
     Just watched and wow I'm really pumped

This is going be some epic movie. Saruman vs Sauron...yes please! Thranduil looked fantastic and the bats!.....I can't wait!

The emotion was very heavy too....I quite liked it!

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


adt100
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 8:11pm


Views: 2562
     Couldn't agree more!

Saying anything of it is 'atrocious' is beyond opinion, it's hyperbole in the extreme and is simply wrong. People can always hide behind the 'opinion' argument but in this case I'm sorry but it's just our of order and wrong. People can have issue with elements of it, issues with the extensive amount, but with the quality based on this trailer? Certainly not? I have yet to see anything better and on a comparable scale from any of the other big releases this year. CGI is open to far less interpretation with regard 'opinion' than for example, specific designs (of characters or locations), of plot lines, of acting. We'll see of course when AMPAS and all the visual effects guilds and award bodies give their, very experienced and very qualified, opinions on it in the new year.


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:14pm


Views: 2566
     it must line up with at least

65% of the other opinions on this forum to be valid...sorry.


Arandir
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:16pm


Views: 2406
     Your point no. 7 "Bard & Thorin"

Unless I'm thinking of another shot, I believe you're referring to the second shot of Bard as he is looking through that squarish whole saying: "You brought upon them only ruin and death".

For some reason, I have a feeling he is actually talking to Bilbo in secret - behind Thorin's back. Perhaps it's the tone of Bard's voice, his compassion (not anger), which makes me believe it's the hobbit who is conversing with him and the words that will ultimately propel Bilbo to go out and make the exchange with the Arkenstone.

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
Why we Love 'Sherlock'
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


iduna
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:16pm


Views: 2396
     Are the orcs going in or out?

At 0:49, when we see the orc armies streaming through giant holes in a mountainside, are they going into the mountain, or out?

I think they're going in.

But if that is Gundabad, why are they going in? And if they've drilled some kind of holes into the sides of Erebor, and are invading the Lonely Mountain, how are 13 dwarves expected to defend the whole mountain against that army?

(Furthermore, the book never says that the orcs made it into the mountain. The war was outside. Right?)


SafeUnderHill
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 8:18pm


Views: 2350
     Hmm


In Reply To
Half of the trailer looked like unfinished pre-viz! I don't mind the use of CGI in these films, but this one looks really, really bad. Hope it looks better in the film.


Laketown looks incredible.

The digital sets now look great, without blemishes.

I'm afraid I'm not too keen on the army shots. But they look nothing like undo finished pre vis, do you know what pre vis looks like? They look like berg high production value shots, but unfortunately not real enough for me.


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 8:20pm


Views: 2372
     I'm not a mod, but I've been here a long time (since the First Age).

And in my experience, people don't get banned for taking one position on the films or another. They get banned for violating the terms of service. Having been on unmoderated boards in the past, I am so grateful to our beaters of the bounds for keeping the conversations here as civil as possible. Sometimes something slips through the cracks, but I know they do the best they can. I've been chided by mods a time or two myself, and I always thank them for the reminder, because I'm so grateful for fourteen years of a positive little corner of the Internet.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



shaundobson
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:20pm


Views: 2360
     they are going in

in the movie verse apparently there are caves which by sheer luck lead to Erebor which is another stupid idea.

why didnt they just keep it like the book ?


Joe20
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 8:22pm


Views: 2370
     If I find something atrocious I will say so. And this is atrocious

How anyone can call something like this acceptable let alone good is beyond me.

http://bitcast-a-sm.bitgravity.com/...es/hobbit-clones.png

They have literally used the same design for elves and stuck them directly in front of the camera. It's not hyperbole. It's disgraceful.


MirielCelebel
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:22pm


Views: 2411
     I AGREE WITH EVERYONE

Literally. After watching the DOS EE and now the trailer, I've come to the conclusion, these films are awful. I will love them til the day I die, I will buy them, then buy their EE, then the boxed set, and I will swear by them but they suck. Way too much CGI.....BUT the actors and the character development, and the emotion in this trailer drove me to tears. I mean the image of Thorin and Kili and Thorin's line "I did it for them," and Kili lashing out at his uncle, it's just incredible. This will be a spectacular movie and we all just need to accept that the CGI will suck and look unrealistic and cheap but you know what? The story has always been what's most important and I don't think we'll see anything short of flawless in that department.

"The Road goes ever on..."

Writing Bliss


iduna
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:22pm


Views: 2337
     yes, that's what I thought

Kili's standing up, giving Tauriel the runestone. He's not lying in her arms.

And they do seem to be on some kind of gravelly shore or river-bank -- I guessed the same, that Kili gave the runestone to Tauriel before going back to the Lonely Mountain.


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 8:22pm


Views: 2323
     *mods up* :-D //

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



shaundobson
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:24pm


Views: 2319
     i agree that Elf army shot is a disgrace for these high movies!

 


Olorin2607
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 8:24pm


Views: 2318
     You are kinda contradicting yourself.

You should better say: For me the CGI is awful, but that does not matter since the story and the characters are beyond amazing.Wink


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 8:25pm


Views: 2300
     Story trumps FX


In Reply To
For me special effects are always an adjunct to the story, a means to an end rather than the raison d’etre.


Yep. As a kid I remember missing a lot of special effects in movies like Horrors of the Black Museum (1959) and Black Sabbath (1963) because the story was soooo good I was hiding underneath the seat.Shocked

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:26pm


Views: 2311
     OMG I KNOW

The story and the acting and the art design and the costume design and the locations and the emotion and the arcs and the characters and the music and the passion behind it are so amazing!!! But there is too much CGI

SO THESE FILMS SUCK!!!!!


give me a break


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 8:26pm


Views: 2299
     Creature Features!

I grew up in the sixties, but I saw plenty of those fifties movies.

And for me, the effects can be whatever they are, if the storytelling is good. My kids, who are millennials, I guess, much prefer the Hobbit cartoon to the new movies. But some of that is probably nostalgia on their part.

I find that for myself, over-the-top CGI action makes me sleepy. So I hope it's balanced by plenty of actual character interaction. But there seemed to be a lot of that in the trailer too, so I'm hopeful.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:27pm


Views: 2324
     IT'S A #&%$@

TRAILER!!!!


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Nov 6 2014, 8:27pm


Views: 2276
     Same here, Elarie. :) /

 

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Tseon
Registered User

Nov 6 2014, 8:28pm


Views: 2279
     XD

Now that you said this, I'll have to watch it again.


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:28pm


Views: 2299
     Stealth attack

The official synopsis says:

"Unable to help Thorin see reason, Bilbo is driven to make a desperate and dangerous choice, not knowing that even greater perils lie ahead. An ancient enemy has returned to Middle-earth. Sauron, the Dark Lord, has sent forth legions of Orcs in a stealth attack upon the Lonely Mountain. As darkness converges on their escalating conflict, the races of Dwarves, Elves and Men must decide—unite or be destroyed. Bilbo finds himself fighting for his life and the lives of his friends as five great armies go to war."

Perhaps the Orcs built secret tunnels? I always wondered why they used STEALTH attack since such a big army marching is not that stealthy isn't it? So perhaps there are secret tunnels? In the book Tolkien mentions that there are Goblin tunnels under the whole Misty Mountains giving the Goblins the opportunity to march in large numbers without being seen by someone else. Perhaps those tunnels in the trailer are a reference to that?


"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


Greypilgrim
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 8:28pm


Views: 2282
     Gandalf wearing Narya

I posted this earlier but it was removed. He's wearing it while unconscious, look at his hand!!!!


iduna
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:29pm


Views: 2263
     Maybe the orcs blasted the holes in the mountain

It doesn't make a lot of sense for the caves to have been there all along.

If they were, then Thorin and Co. spent a lot of unnecessary time fussing over the map and the hidden door and Durin's Day, when they could have just gone in this other way.


Elanor of Rohan
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 8:30pm


Views: 2251
     Dark somber mood

this movie is going to be incredibly close to LOTR for atmosphere...
Too many Elves and too few Dwarves, but that seems to be the usual trailer/advertising policy for WB lately...

So no Dain, he'll come out as a bolt from the blue wih his Iron Hills dwarves... or not?

No Beorn as well.

No Balin and no Fili confronting Thorin: if that were the case it would be a huge disappointment for me...

It is a trailer, it gives us glimpses of a general idea, it wants to tell about an atmosphere...
The mood is getting darker and darker...

Best line ever: the beginning of a master plan...


iduna
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:31pm


Views: 2241
     Gandalf's staff

Yes I noticed that! Cool


Bishop
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:32pm


Views: 2264
     It's not about something being acceptable

It's about continuity. Those Elves look EXACTLY like they did when they stood next to Thranduil in the AUJ prologue. :)


FiliSonOfDis
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:32pm


Views: 2261
     I have nothing against Kili

I like them both as well, Fili and Kili in the book might as well be one character after all. If anything I'm more against Tauriel and Kili's romance, but Kili and tauriel as characters alone I'm totally fine with.

My main issue with Kili is that Fili is pushed aside for him, I forgave it in the first two films because I assume the switching of Fili's actor may have cut a lot of his screen time and turned Kili/Fili scenes into just Kili scenes. This time around though I want Thorin acknowledging his nephews equally, Kili can have his Tauriel scenes but the three remaining line of Durin members should be together and treated as the king and prince dynamic that they are.

And yes it's been stated they are Thorins nephews and brothers to one another it's just your average movie watcher, from the way the interactions and screen time alone have been shown, will probably think Kili is somehow more important to Throin and the bloodline as a whole since Fili has gotten about as much face time as any other dwarf while Kili has gotten more (bofur, balin, dwalin level).

still again, the posters have shown all 3 of them the chariot in the last trailer showed balin dwalin kili and fili on it and like you pointed out Thorin says he did it for "them" and i assume that meant fili and kili so hopefully Fili will get some moments here.

On another note I pointed this out in the last trailer and since it hasn't changed I'm going to have to assume it is not a CGI mistake: Oin Fili Kili and Bofur have their pre-captured by the elves clothing on when they first reach Erebor (you can see this in the scene where Thorin is in the Gold hoard and they are up on some steps with Bilbo), I assume this is the first time Thorin see's them since Lake Town is destroyed and there is a shot of his face looking in disbelief that I believe is when he first sees that they have survived. Since they have there pre-captured clothing on I'm assuming thranduil returns there belongings to them during the lake town refugee camp scene (probably as a sign of good will in an attempt to bargain with Thorin for his jewels) so I expect Thranduil or at least some of the Mirkwood elves to interact with Oin Fili Kili and Bofur before they head back to Erebor.


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 8:33pm


Views: 2232
     and no Radagast again

SadFrown


SafeUnderHill
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 8:35pm


Views: 2448
     They did a pretty good job with that shot


In Reply To
How anyone can call something like this acceptable let alone good is beyond me.

http://bitcast-a-sm.bitgravity.com/...es/hobbit-clones.png

They have literally used the same design for elves and stuck them directly in front of the camera. It's not hyperbole. It's disgraceful.


Considering the elves are CGI.


The Mitch King
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 8:36pm


Views: 2481
     You're not kidding… This is trash.


In Reply To
How anyone can call something like this acceptable let alone good is beyond me.

http://bitcast-a-sm.bitgravity.com/...es/hobbit-clones.png

They have literally used the same design for elves and stuck them directly in front of the camera. It's not hyperbole. It's disgraceful.



Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 8:36pm


Views: 2455
     Strange....

They DO look like the same ones! Like they were immortals or something!

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


namarie
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 8:37pm


Views: 2440
     Epic //

 


"Don't try to be perfect, just try to be yourself"


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:37pm


Views: 2426
     but to take

one frame (shot) and write the films off as disgraceful when there are thousands of other beautifully hand crafted shots is a little unfair. They could have literally just not had time to finish it properly.


macfalk
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 8:39pm


Views: 2467
     About the trailer CGI

Can someone allay my fears that what we saw is unfinished CGI that they will work on some more?

The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


iduna
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:39pm


Views: 2422
     Good point. Huge army hardly "stealthy"

I suppose the issue will be explained in the movies -- where exactly the caves are, how the orcs found out about them, and how come Thorin et al. didn't know there were other entrances into Erebor so large you could drive an army through them.


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:40pm


Views: 2434
     Utter garbage

how could they? are they really so heartless and cruel?

The people behind these films have no regard for our feelings. No regard whatsoever.

They have the NERVE to take ONE shot and make it look terrible!!?
That's it. I'm done.

Not even going to see it.


The Mitch King
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 8:40pm


Views: 2403
     cgi

I think its the contrast with Bard and Thranduil I don't like.


SafeUnderHill
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 8:40pm


Views: 2400
     I don't think it'll change in the final film


In Reply To
one frame (shot) and write the films off as disgraceful when there are thousands of other beautifully hand crafted shots is a little unfair. They could have literally just not had time to finish it properly.


But it's not that big of a problem. At least they match the elves in the AUJ prologue that were also very similar looking and CGI!

What I like in this trailer are the excellent character moments, are there are many stunning shots (particularly Laketown and Erebor looking out onto it).


Olorin2607
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 8:40pm


Views: 2403
     In his defense

I must say that it really comes off a bit dodgy and we all know the Elves in AUJ did not look any better.. and there they had time.

But still it totally DOES NOT ruin the movie.

DOS EE has some dodgy CGI as well and still its a wonderful movie.


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:41pm


Views: 2417
     Judging by

EVERY OTHER HOBBIT TRAILER WE'VE SEEN

Yes, this trailer was probably put together before all of the shots in the film are finished.


SafeUnderHill
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 8:42pm


Views: 2390
     No


In Reply To
Can someone allay my fears that what we saw is unfinished CGI that they will work on some more?


Chances are little will change, mainly grading. But unlike last year the film is pretty much finished. If you don't like the look of it, you're going to have to try to come to terms with it or just don't watch it. The CGI looks very polished, it's just they seem to love that sort of glossy hyper real look rather than gritty and hazy and realistic (like Jim Rygiel, visual effects supervisor for LOTR, always pushed for).


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:43pm


Views: 2373
     A lot of the CGI/Rendering in DOS

WAS HORRENDOUS

but you are absolutely right. The film (EE) was great, and well worth looking past a couple of bad shots. BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY GOOD ONES.

I even decided to look past the atrocious (note my use of the word) GoPro shots in the barrel sequence.


(This post was edited by Lindele on Nov 6 2014, 8:44pm)


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 8:43pm


Views: 2392
     Brilliant trailer -

 Pretty much what I was hoping for at this stage, even when AUJ first came out.

I've no idea how the movie is going turn out but I'm looking forward to it more than ever, now.

No sign of Dain, but I hope he gets his 'hero moment'.

As for the CGI Elves being the same, I don't know. I expect Elves to have certain 'unhuman' traits, anyway.



From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.



The Mitch King
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 8:47pm


Views: 2328
     Tunnels


In Reply To
I suppose the issue will be explained in the movies -- where exactly the caves are, how the orcs found out about them, and how come Thorin et al. didn't know there were other entrances into Erebor so large you could drive an army through them.


Definitely dug by orcs. I assume they lead from Gundabad to outside of Erebor.


Olorin2607
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 8:51pm


Views: 2328
     Of course you can.

But that still gives me the right to tell you mine..namely that spreading negativity before even saying anything regarding the OVERALL feel of the trailer is also.. well... atrocious.


Gandy
Bree

Nov 6 2014, 8:53pm


Views: 2292
     .


In Reply To

In Reply To
Well now we know how Tauriel dies, thanks spoilerific trailer! Sweet trailer though, cant wait!


Am I the only one who thinks it looked like Thranduil cuts her throat with his sword? LOL Watch closely again.

________________________________________________________________________

Tauriel has an arrow in his face, fully drawn string, and he just breaks the arrow into pieces with his sword. Frame grabs show the broken pieces clearly.

Frame by frame over-analysis also shows 3 unique elves that are duplicated via CG countless times. Wink Very odd. Three is a tiny number. At least do 20. They can swap faces on barely animated faces easily. Three is a weird decision. There are live elves and CG. The 3 live elves got in costume in front of a green screen, and then footage was duplicated to form a line. Rinse, repeat.
That's a very acceptable technique and makes the most sense, but using 3 actors is weird. Just a few more would make it not look like the Elven attack of the clones.

Dol Goldur has so much potential for breathtaking imagery. The intimate setting, the big bosses of ME all in one place, the stakes... Wow. I am looking forward to Dol Goldur more than the Battle5. I dearly hope it isn't cut too short or mostly wastes time with Orcs flipflopping everywhere Wilhelm scream stuff. The Nine and Sauron shouldn't be a brief climax after boring Orc growling.
Most importantly - Saruman absolutely should allowed to show his 100% uncorrupted self. Audiences don't know that side of him.

"Leave Sauron to ME!" This line should be spoken by a Saruman pure of heart and he should battle Sauron so grandly and beautifully that the tragic future we already know he will have, will add a deep level of bittersweet to the end of the battle. The Palantir is there, so natuarlly we know he will take it. But this should be after his final act of pure goodwill. Just a quick hint at the future. He isn't taking it because he made a deal with Sauron during their fight.

Apparently even Galadriel is getting beat up. Saruman maybe arrives later? Thus the following:
Saruman should brandish the 3 good rings of power on his own Infinity Gauntlet. Cool

My guess from the quick trailer cuts, Galadriel finding Gandalf on the ground - this is at the beginning before the big fight commences. Gandalf has just been freed from his cage and is very weak, beaten. Galadriel rushes to him. After this, the real action starts. Help arrives. Gandalf gets eagled away to Battle5 before the main Dol Goldur fight.
That's why he isn't on the ground in the following scene. He might fight some though because "The Power of the Three". His ring is involved.

Rambling finished.


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 8:56pm


Views: 2298
     The fiends!!

Jackson & Co. are probably reading this thread as we speak and cackling maniacally as they satisfy themselves drinking our sad sad tears of disillusionment and despair!

They're doing everything they can to deliberately make a terrible film we won't want to see! Because... er... well.. ah....

How about:

1. Make horrible film.
2. Something.
3. Something.
4. Profit.

Yeah, that!

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 8:57pm


Views: 2286
     This feels more like a complete CGI - thread...

Cant there be created a separate one for this issue?! Crazy


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:59pm


Views: 2291
     PJ's plan

from the very beginning...back in the mid 90's when they started writing LOTR, was to make 5 amazing and beautiful Middle-earth films JUST so that our hopes would be at their highest in anticipation for the sixth film in which he would DEVASTATE us with something horrendous. It's all just a big scheme.

It's a remnant of his splatter film days...he loves to shock people.


Smaug's Fire
The Shire

Nov 6 2014, 9:02pm


Views: 2238
     Thank you!


In Reply To
Something worthwhile to discuss. Here's what I think:

1.) In the book the Elvenking wants a share of the hoard, both because he believes that some of his own wealth is in the mountain, and because he wants to help out the homeless Lakemen. In the filmverse, we were shown his desire for the Nauglamir-esque gems from the AUJ EE prologue, which is presumably what he's after here.

2.) Gandalf is referring to Sauron's master plan. The orcs appear to be entering tunnels that will allow them to approach the Mountain unseen while the Free Peoples quarrel.

3.) In the book, bats block out the sun during the battle and allow the goblins to march and fight during the day. Here they appear to be closer to the Thuringwethil-style vampire-bat creatures of the Silmarillion than to those we saw in AUJ streaming out of Dol Guldur. Mount Gundabad was the primary orc-hold in the North of the Misty Mountains. It's where the hunters under Azog and Bolg come from in the film-verse. It looks like it operated as Sauron's secondary base under Azog's command. Legolas and Tauriel probably track Bolg there following the destruction of Laketown. The forces of Azog marching from Dol Guldur and the forces of Bolg marching from Mt. Gundabad will likely meet up and flank the unsuspecting Free Folk at some point.

4.) Not really sure about where this frozen waterfall is meant to be. Presumably somewhere in the environs of Dale or Ravenhill. Unless it's near Mt. Gundabad?


Ah thank you! I was thinking something along these lines but I wasn't sure!


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 9:03pm


Views: 2242
     I feel ya

 


aifeme
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 9:04pm


Views: 2255
     Oh man...Just freaking.chill.out.

I loved the trailer, but also mentioned the faces of the Elven army. Because I could.
In Your eyes people like me hate this trailer and previous Hobbit movies. And all that other things You wrote...You're just putting words into peoples' mouths. It's offensive.. Just stop.
And stop using caps lock so much, otherwise no one will take You seriously.

TORn lurker since 2002:]

(This post was edited by aifeme on Nov 6 2014, 9:08pm)


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 9:06pm


Views: 2221
     This!


In Reply To
And stop using caps lock so much, otherwise no on will take You seriously.



Ar-Pharazôn
The Shire

Nov 6 2014, 9:07pm


Views: 2625
     Visually impressive but...

left me rather cold, despite the character moments. Didn´t like the music, very weak in my opinion. No surprise Jackson goes for "Bigger is Better" and the Charme of the book is almost gone. Liked the appearance of Chris Lee, though I have to admit, that I would have liked the before the Trailer rumored line "I will deal with Sauron" more than the actual line.


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 9:08pm


Views: 2625
     But...

...I hafta keep it on so my beanie don't fly off!

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.

(This post was edited by Darkstone on Nov 6 2014, 9:10pm)


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 9:09pm


Views: 2616
     wasn't

supposed to be taken seriously, necessarily...and if you read my posts carefully (it is very subtle) you can pick up on some slight sarcasm.
In my eyes, i don't claim to think anything about 'people like you' i'm merely referring to the people who blatantly said that these films suck big time despite being 95% phenomenal...

PHENOMENAL!!!


(This post was edited by Lindele on Nov 6 2014, 9:11pm)


DuBekar
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 9:09pm


Views: 2645
     Bilbo flipping us off for the last time ;)

If you watch the end of the trailer when Bilbo is putting the ring on his finger, you can see it is his middle finger he is putting the ring in, haha this was actually funny :D

" Why, O people of Noldor! Fëanor cried. Why should we longer serve the jealous Valar, who cannot keep us nor even their own realm secure from their enemy? And though he be now their foe, are not they and he of one kin? Vengence calls me hence, but even were it otherwise I would not dwell longer in the same land with the kin of my father's slayer and of the thief of treasure. Yet i am not the only valiant in this valiant people. And have ye not all lost your King? And what else have ye not lost, cooped here in a narrow land between the mountains and the sea? Here once was light, that the Valar begrudged to middle-earth, but now dark levels all. Shall we mourn here deedless forever, a shadow-folk, mist-haunting, dropping vain tears in the thankless sea? Or shall we return to our home? In cuivičnen sweet ran the waters under uncloaded stars, and wide lands lay about, where a free people might walk. There they lie still and await us who in out folly forsook them. Come away! Let the cowards keep this city!"

(This post was edited by DuBekar on Nov 6 2014, 9:10pm)


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 9:09pm


Views: 2616
     THIS

ok now i'm turning into a troll


SafeUnderHill
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 9:11pm


Views: 2590
     Doesn't look like it to me


In Reply To
left me rather cold, despite the character moments. Didn´t like the music, very weak in my opinion. No surprise Jackson goes for "Bigger is Better" and the Charme of the book is almost gone. Liked the appearance of Chris Lee, though I have to admit, that I would have liked the before the Trailer rumored line "I will deal with Sauron" more than the actual line.


The Minas Tirith battle looked way huger than anything in this trailer, but they do seem to be holding back with the trailer - not showing much of the actual fighting.

To cheer people up, there's plenty of live action fighting between REAL ELVES, REAL MEN and PROSTHETIC ORCS on the BUILT ON LOCATION Dale set! We only got a split second shot of it in this.


Joe20
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 9:12pm


Views: 2612
     See there is the problem.

When I say something negative about the film or trailer, I will merely post my opinion. I will not actively seek out those who praise it and attempt to engage in some never ending debate.

Yet those who are positive about the film feel the need to get defensive and accuse those with a different opinion of being trolls or wrong.


Misty Mountain Hop
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 9:13pm


Views: 2602
     Here is the ridiculously funny thing about the people who say "That doesn't look real..."

What can we define as "real?" When was the last time any one of you saw 10,000 arrows flying through the air in one large wave? Or when did you last see an enormous troll fight a bunch of orcs? How about the last time you saw a dwarf fall two stories onto your face????

No matter what example it is, these things are all fake. I understand that tweaking things here and there can make them look better in terms of color, texture, etc...but when people complain about something looking fake or out of place, where is the comparison?

It's not like seeing a person walk down the street in real life and then seeing a CGI person walk down a street in a movie and compare the two. It's totally different. The fact that they can recreate these huge scenes and make it actually look like a dragon swoops down and throws flames on a bunch of goblins and destroys buildings is pretty amazing.

Yet someone has the nerve to say "That building that just exploded looks fake." Fake compared to what? The building that you just saw explode in real life two minutes ago?

I get that some CGI shots are a bit less convincing, and I'm sure they can get cleaned up before the final cut. Even so, Instead of looking at the glass half empty, or even shattered, blown up, and disintegrated for that matter, try looking at it a little more positively.
If it wasn't for Peter and these guys at WETA making these movies, we wouldn't see anything at all.

I'd really like to see them film a cave troll battling an eagle and not use any CGI. Impossible.

"Only, you've never done a hard day's work." - Merry


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Nov 6 2014, 9:14pm


Views: 2582
     I noticed that myself ;)

LOL, Martin. Cool This is supposed to be a family friendly film.

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen


farmer maggot
Rivendell

Nov 6 2014, 9:14pm


Views: 2622
     Re CGI - just to point out

Trailers are made purely for marketing purposes to the general public, not dissection by us obsessive fans.
There is no guarantee that any of these shots are actually in the final (or rough) cut of the film.
The trailer is stupendous by the way, as expected, as will be the film. The last vision of ME!


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Nov 6 2014, 9:15pm


Views: 2581
     OK, enough.

These side-discussions of who is more trollish and what type of opinions are less worthy than others will stop now. Please get back to discussing the trailer and not each other - any more posts along these lines will be removed.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 9:15pm


Views: 2559
     Well

Though smaller it looks like the battle will be more complex than Helm's Deep or the Pelennor. There are five (six? seven? eight?) armies after all.

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Bishop
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 9:15pm


Views: 2559
     LOL!

Nice catch!


Wordofmask
Lorien

Nov 6 2014, 9:16pm


Views: 2562
     It just does not convince me.

but I'm ok with your opinion. Wink


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 9:17pm


Views: 2536
     being

bored at work and excited about this new trailer has caused me to spiral completely out of control.

I'm sorry.


Ar-Pharazôn
The Shire

Nov 6 2014, 9:18pm


Views: 2531
     .


In Reply To

In Reply To
left me rather cold, despite the character moments. Didn´t like the music, very weak in my opinion. No surprise Jackson goes for "Bigger is Better" and the Charme of the book is almost gone. Liked the appearance of Chris Lee, though I have to admit, that I would have liked the before the Trailer rumored line "I will deal with Sauron" more than the actual line.


The Minas Tirith battle looked way huger than anything in this trailer, but they do seem to be holding back with the trailer - not showing much of the actual fighting.

To cheer people up, there's plenty of live action fighting between REAL ELVES, REAL MEN and PROSTHETIC ORCS on the BUILT ON LOCATION Dale set! We only got a split second shot of it in this.


I was not referring in any way to missing action scenes....


Elessar
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 9:18pm


Views: 2522
     I would assume so.

 



Fleuz
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 9:20pm


Views: 2516
     Back to Topic?

Thranduil ist cutting Tauriels Bow. You can see it clearly in the Trailer. It seems like she's aiming at something.
Any clues?


Elfhelm
The Shire

Nov 6 2014, 9:21pm


Views: 2523
     This (sadly).


In Reply To
...look totally fake. The shot with all the arrows fired at once? Impossible. Yes, I know they're Elves and Elves are magical, but it looks fake.


I agree. The copy-pasted Crazy CGI (elf) armies especially looked sooo fake that if that's how it will look like in the theater I'll be completely drawn out of the movie. Unsure Surely they can't think that would look convincing, especially when they are all in such tight formation? (As an aside, I've never really agreed with PJ's vision of elven military being so utterly organized and Romanesque in battle - I see them as more free spirited there as well)

With a film this heavily laden with CGI I'm really starting to worry now, as there can't be more than a couple of weeks left now to finish the film... Can only hope they'll pull it off.


In Reply To
The character shots look great, and all the drama appears right. I'm just hoping they get the CGI fixed in the movie.


Yeah. The non-CGI elements were definitely promising.


Ar-Pharazôn
The Shire

Nov 6 2014, 9:29pm


Views: 2464
     @ Fleuz

What´s up with the site "herr-der-ringe-film.de"? Really ridiculous this site is down every time a new middle-earth trailer arrives. The owners of the site should have known there would be plenty of people try to go there and raise their server-capacity. Already down for 3-4 hours. Very incompetente.


Fleuz
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 9:32pm


Views: 2455
     Twitter destroyed the site

there was a huge rush as the Link to the Trailer was posted on twitter.
But the site works. Slowly but surely... Cool


iduna
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 9:35pm


Views: 2431
     yes, but if the orcs are going in....

They're going the wrong way, right?

If the tunnels are a way for the orcs to get fronm Gundabad to Erebor in secret, we ought to see them coming out of the tunnels near Erebor. But here they are going into the tunnels.

Seems to me that it would be more exciting to show the orcs arriving at the battlefield, instead of starting on their journey (if that's what they are doing).


Ar-Pharazôn
The Shire

Nov 6 2014, 9:37pm


Views: 2411
     Wirklich?

Ich komme seit ca. 4 Stunden überhaupt gar nicht auf die Seite. "Seiten-Ladefehler" aufgrund Zeitüberschreitung (Verbindungsaufbau zur Seite dauert zu lange). Finde ich echt traurig, dass dies jedes Jahr wieder passieren muss, obwohl die Betreiber schon vorher um den Ansturm wissen. Finde ich wie gesagt sehr inkompetent.

Sorry for Offtopic, will drop it now.


(This post was edited by Ar-Pharazôn on Nov 6 2014, 9:38pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 9:40pm


Views: 2405
     Exactly


In Reply To
Yet someone has the nerve to say "That building that just exploded looks fake." Fake compared to what? The building that you just saw explode in real life two minutes ago?


For someone who gets their expectations from movies and video games, a lot of stuff like explosions would look fake in "real life". Movies and video games "sweeten" sounds, visuals, etc. to make them look more exciting, not more real. (I won't mention the plastically augmented movie stars and airbrushed professional models whose physical appearance some people accept as "real".)



In Reply To
I'd really like to see them film a cave troll battling an eagle and not use any CGI. Impossible.


The liability insurance alone would be prohibitive.

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Name
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 9:45pm


Views: 2366
     Having a fun time using my broken German to try and decipher this.

Laugh

How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?

"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"


Name
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 9:49pm


Views: 2643
     I'm a little late

But amazing trailer! Some sketchy CG, but whatever. It's a freaking trailer, not the finished movie. Same thing happens with every other trailer in existence. I am however kinda disappointed with the direction this thread has taken. Unimpressed

How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?

"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"


CathrineB
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 9:56pm


Views: 2649
     My thoughts (book spoilers)

Still not fan of the elk. Goddamnit would it kill him to ride a horse like Bard does?

And do we see Kili's death there? Not his actual death, but you know. Tauriel is holding something small and I'd figured it could be Kili considering how sad she looks. Oh goddamnit man. I'm not one of the haters of the two, but I don't want him to die in her arms!!

Way way waaaaaaaaay to little Fili - if any. Where is he? ^_-

The foreheads touching between Thorin and Kili - wow so touching! Evil

Kili shouting. Quite a character moment! Dwalin! Bilbo omg! So much gorgeous characters I love them all!

Bilbo throwing down the rope to bring the stone to Bard and Thrandy?!!!

People still whine about the CGI? Good lord.

Bard. Thranduil. Ugh. Lee Pace is amazing. Luke Evans too. You can say a lot about these movies, but the casting is perfect.


SafeUnderHill
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 10:04pm


Views: 2566
     People who disagree think the other is wrong


In Reply To
When I say something negative about the film or trailer, I will merely post my opinion. I will not actively seek out those who praise it and attempt to engage in some never ending debate.

Yet those who are positive about the film feel the need to get defensive and accuse those with a different opinion of being trolls or wrong.


Responding to posts is the beautfy of a forum!

But you make a fair point.


SafeUnderHill
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 10:07pm


Views: 2542
     Lets talk about your favourite shots!

Enough of this stuff about the what you think is bad CGI. Tell me about your favourite shots!

Mine:

- The location shot next to the lake
- Thranduil and Gandalf in the tent
- Tauriel and Kili (the shot looks lovely and real, regardless of your thoughts on their characters)
- All of the Laketown visuals looks stunning
- Those shots of burning Laketown/Dale from Erebor also look wonderful
- The CGI in Erebor is looking better than ever


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 10:07pm


Views: 2565
     only breifly viewed it once with no sound

but for me best shot=Elrond drawing sword like only an ancient and skilled elf could


Iris70
The Shire


Nov 6 2014, 10:09pm


Views: 2539
     elves and dwarves

Don't you think there are too many elves and too few dwarves in this trailer? And Thorin being attacked by everybody?
And then... so much for the eternal "wind machine " in Middle Earth... this is going to be a real Smaug-nado!


Bombadil
Half-elven


Nov 6 2014, 10:09pm


Views: 2525
     DAMN the Critics..? FULL Speeed Ahead PJ!//

 

www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"


Ar-Pharazôn
The Shire

Nov 6 2014, 10:12pm


Views: 2573
     Concerning Thranduil

Why the hell is he wearing in the trailer the same zombie-contact-lenses like Legolas? He didn´t wear it in DOS!


Elessar
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 10:13pm


Views: 2510
     I caught that

The second or third time I finally caught that. Pretty interesting moment.



SafeUnderHill
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 10:22pm


Views: 2513
     The shot

Of Bilbo climbing over a statue with Dale in the background also looks stunning. I think the visuals really shine at night time, it's harder to pull of CGI in bright daylight I'm guessing.


Wordofmask
Lorien

Nov 6 2014, 10:46pm


Views: 2445
     So

Who is Galadriel lose to I wonder?

Sauron or The nine?

I hope it would be Sauron. The idea of lady of the light lose to the ring wraiths is unacceptable for me.


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 11:44pm


Views: 2359
     umm soooooooooo

Thranduil cuts Tauriels throat or something?!?! What the flip?!?! If you slow it down it certainly looks like he has his sword in hand when he strikes her.
I don't like the way he is talking to Gandalf either.


macfalk
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 11:45pm


Views: 2354
     Prosthetic orcs

The goblins in Goblin-town were prosthetic too, but PJ cut them all out and went for the CGI-only route because he didn't like the feel of them. Could be the same case here.

The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


macfalk
Valinor


Nov 6 2014, 11:46pm


Views: 2414
     I love that PJ is acknowledging that Thranduil isn't a good guy!

Because, well, he isn't. In the book he is a greedy usurper. In the movie he's the same, albeit a charming and interesting one.

The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


SafeUnderHill
Rohan

Nov 7 2014, 12:11am


Views: 2319
     Except


In Reply To
The goblins in Goblin-town were prosthetic too, but PJ cut them all out and went for the CGI-only route because he didn't like the feel of them. Could be the same case here.


These prosthetic orcs in Dale were shot during 2013 pickups, even though he said he moved more towards digital ones later in the shoot. You can see them in both BOTFA trailers (very briefly) and they haven't been replaced.


Kim
Valinor


Nov 7 2014, 12:31am


Views: 2333
     Wow

Once again, watched a trailer while holding my breath the whole time. Epic, but sad, especially for us Thorin fans. Unsure



Join us every weekend for The Hobbit Chapter of the Week discussions!



Wordofmask
Lorien

Nov 7 2014, 12:31am


Views: 2336
     Totally Agreed!!

And Thorin's facial expression and his line not indicate that He will be a pure villain. He has some reason behind his action "Everything I did I did for them"


(This post was edited by Wordofmask on Nov 7 2014, 12:34am)


Kim
Valinor


Nov 7 2014, 12:42am


Views: 2270
     Don't forget your blankie

and some sort of stuffed animal. We're going to need something to hug throughout the whole movie. Unsure



Join us every weekend for The Hobbit Chapter of the Week discussions!



Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea


Nov 7 2014, 1:01am


Views: 2255
     I forgot about that!

I was going to build a blanket fort and stock it with supplies.... I'd better start gathering everything.



Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings






Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Nov 7 2014, 1:06am


Views: 2259
     he's knocking her bow and arrow out of her hands

which she has drawn on him for some reason.....I cannot tell you how many times I had to watch it and pause to finally see it all! Not that I needed an excuse for re-watching this magnificent trailer Angelic

I don't know if he "snuck up" on her or what, but it's definitely bizarre....

I read the book and all (many times, and yes I know she's not in there) but one nice thing (and frustrating) about the filmmakers not following the book to a T is that it makes the last movie a bit of a mystery- really, ANYTHING could happen.

And for a "loves spoilers" type person like me, it drives me nuts! Evil



Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Nov 7 2014, 1:07am


Views: 2276
     BEAUTIFUL line!

That line did me in....I already knew (due to reading the book) the casualties of the battle, but that line.....oh my gosh, I am going to need to buy the whole darn kleenex aisle stock for this movie! Frown

Then figure out how to get it in there....



iduna
Rivendell


Nov 7 2014, 1:22am


Views: 2239
     It was heart-breaking

Dwalin has dedicated his whole life to being Thorin's defender and supporter.

To finally get to the point where he realizes that Thorin has gone wrong, and that he, Dwalin, has to tell his friend that he's wrong -- that will be devastating.


AshNazg
Gondor


Nov 7 2014, 1:25am


Views: 2224
     I didn't say the film was terrible...

I said the CGI in this trailer looks bad (which, I'm sorry, but it does). I'm not being negative for the sake of it, if you read my post (or any of my previous posts) I explain I'm fine with the use of CGI in these films for the most part.

It's just that specific shots in this particular trailer look bad (at least to a few of us) and I am simply expressing my concern by saying that I hope it looks better in the final film, which I'm aware could very well be the case.

I'm sorry for not watching the trailer like a "normal person" but that's my choice. Crazy


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Nov 7 2014, 1:34am


Views: 2212
     Now this

would be the way to watch the movie during a moot with board members! *makes notes*

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 7 2014, 1:50am


Views: 2231
     Trailer transcript

There are a few people who consistently request these, so here you go:

*********************************************************
Bilbo: Thorin, you gave a promise.

Bard: You brought upon them only ruin and death.

Bilbo: You've won the Mountain, is that not enough?

Thorin: Now - we defend it.

Thranduil:
I came to reclaim something of mine.

Gandalf: This was the last move in a master plan, a plan long in the making.

Legolas:
These bats are bred for one purpose. For war.

Saruman: Leave Sauron to me.

Dwalin: Bilbo is right. You cannot see what you've become.

Thorin: Everything I did, I did for them.

Thranduil: You started this. You will forgive me if I finish it.

Bilbo: When faced with death, what can anyone do?

Kili: I will not hide while others fight our battles for us!

Gandalf: You have but one question to ask; how shall this day end?


Silverlode



Want a LOTR Anniversary footer of your own? Get one here!

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



(This post was edited by Silverlode on Nov 7 2014, 11:31pm)


shadowdog
Rohan

Nov 7 2014, 1:51am


Views: 5122
     You have the right

to say it is atrocious. But to say nobody can say it is good is beyond the pale and unacceptable.


AshNazg
Gondor


Nov 7 2014, 2:07am


Views: 5127
     I'm 99% certain you're right, actually

I've looked at the shots that I think look bad and they're very definitely incomplete. I'm sure once they're touched up and graded it will look fine.
Thranduil's cloned elves worry me a bit, though. Because they looked bad in An Unexpected Journey too. They just get away with it for the very short shot in AUJ, but they better be touched up for BoFA.

Regarding my previous post, I have to admit I didn't expect an explosion of people desperately defending the films after me expressing a rather minor concern in what I thought was a very honest and positive manner Crazy Slightly confused, I'm sorry about that.


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Nov 7 2014, 2:17am


Views: 5132
     Kili's line

"I will not hide while others fight our battles for us!" Smile

Thanks a heap for the transcript Silverlode! Such wonderful lines, such evocative and emotional words!

I think this is going to be the best hobbit film yet by FAR! Heart



Dwarewien
Rohan


Nov 7 2014, 2:22am


Views: 5116
     Tell me about it...

since watching what happens to him will be like watching a close friend of family member go through the same thing and not being able to do anything about it. If it brought a tear to Dwalin's eye (not sure how I feel about that yet), just imagine what it will do to the rest of us (especially those of us that don't succumb to tears that easily. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them). Don't you hate that helpless feeling, but regardless what happens to Thorin, I'll be on his side no matter what (just thought that I would mention that, since there's nothing Thorin could do that would cause me to hate him, that's just not going to happen).Unsure


"Will you follow me... one last time?"


Scorchster
Rivendell


Nov 7 2014, 2:47am


Views: 5092
     Absolutely agreed.

People have extremely warped perceptions of what is real and what isn't - and you're absolutely right, the culprit is films and video games that make stuff like explosions look more dramatic than they really are.

For instance, from my time in the military, I know that grenade explosions look nowhere as dramatic or flashy as what they've been portrayed in films. But people who haven't seen any real grenade explosions will only have exaggerations in film and video games to go upon.


Scorchster
Rivendell


Nov 7 2014, 2:51am


Views: 5071
     Hope so too!

It's actually slightly odd that they can make all the orcs stand out and look different digitally, yet the elves look cloned.

However, to be fair, the DOS trailer had unfinished CGI as well that was eventually fixed in the theatrical film, so I wouldn't worry.

In any case I definitely wouldn't be nitpicking and looking out for unfinished CGI when watching the film - I intend to get totally swept up by the drama and emotion! Smile

And I didn't think your concern in your previous post came across as trolling or negative in any way.


Nira
Lorien


Nov 7 2014, 3:27am


Views: 5087
     EPIC!

That was a fitting final trailer! I'm going to watch it over and over for the next month.

"Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?" -Samwise


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 7 2014, 4:40am


Views: 5044
     When you signed on to this site,

you agreed to our Terms of Service. While you have the right to your opinion, your participation on this site is contingent on compliance with our Terms of Service.


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Nov 7 2014, 5:08am


Views: 5028
     Thank goodness, the lesser of two evils

Thranduil killing Tauriel or any elf would be disastrous within the context of Tolkiens work. I realise this is a movie adaptation but Tolkien is the source no matter how loose the interpretation, and elf on elf murders are a rarity in the entire history of Arda's mythology, and to see this happen on film as just another occurrence would be terrible beyond belief. It is bad enough that we have already had in the filmverse Gandalf as a representative of the Valar that was meant to have been the only Istar that stayed true to his mission, hitting the Steward of Gondor and Aragorn beheading an emissary during parley.


mae govannen
Tol Eressea


Nov 7 2014, 5:09am


Views: 5027
     Agree with you on all points...

 

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


Nov 7 2014, 5:14am


Views: 5018
     bats

I've made the mistake of reading some youtube comments, and I'm amazed and frustrated by people's need to complain about things that they obviously know nothing about. There are so many people complaining about the bats of all things and saying that Peter Jackson is just making stuff up and that bats have no place in Tolkien's Middle-earth...Crazy


cats16
Valinor


Nov 7 2014, 5:38am


Views: 5036
     A couple of thoughts...

I haven't gotten to scan the masses of threads yet, but some general thoughts:

- The "tunnels" shot looked to me like it was some sort of exit from Gundabad. I didn't think it to be anywhere near Erebor. It reminded me of some sort of tunnel that one would find on the roadway, going through a mountain.

- Saruman's transition into FOTR seems to be on a very smooth path. I'm curious to read Darkstone's thoughts on it, as I know he's posted on that topic several times.

- No comment on CG stuff, other than that, without theatrical quality sound/final edits of shots, I choose not to talk about the cake before it's out of the oven.

- So excited by what we saw, but also how much we didn't see.

*watches trailer once more*



Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!




mae govannen
Tol Eressea


Nov 7 2014, 6:01am


Views: 5009
     Great, but too discrete, this transcript of yours!

I nearly missed it!!! And yet i was looking anxiously for a transcript everywhere...

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 7 2014, 7:57am


Views: 4954
     Lol


In Reply To
If you watch the end of the trailer when Bilbo is putting the ring on his finger, you can see it is his middle finger he is putting the ring in, haha this was actually funny :D


Thank you! I noticed this as well. Part of me is thinking that Martin does this intentionally.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 7 2014, 8:10am


Views: 4963
     Well


In Reply To
What can we define as "real?" When was the last time any one of you saw 10,000 arrows flying through the air in one large wave? Or when did you last see an enormous troll fight a bunch of orcs? How about the last time you saw a dwarf fall two stories onto your face????

No matter what example it is, these things are all fake. I understand that tweaking things here and there can make them look better in terms of color, texture, etc...but when people complain about something looking fake or out of place, where is the comparison?

It's not like seeing a person walk down the street in real life and then seeing a CGI person walk down a street in a movie and compare the two. It's totally different. The fact that they can recreate these huge scenes and make it actually look like a dragon swoops down and throws flames on a bunch of goblins and destroys buildings is pretty amazing.

Yet someone has the nerve to say "That building that just exploded looks fake." Fake compared to what? The building that you just saw explode in real life two minutes ago?

I get that some CGI shots are a bit less convincing, and I'm sure they can get cleaned up before the final cut. Even so, Instead of looking at the glass half empty, or even shattered, blown up, and disintegrated for that matter, try looking at it a little more positively.
If it wasn't for Peter and these guys at WETA making these movies, we wouldn't see anything at all.

I'd really like to see them film a cave troll battling an eagle and not use any CGI. Impossible.



I can't speak for everyone. I can only speak for myself, however, I'm sure many others who feel the same way about the CGI would agree with what I'm about to say. We do have something to compare it to: The Lord of the Rings movies.

Yes, the quality of CGI is probably much better (for the most part) in these films than in LOTR, seeing as the technology is more advanced. However, there are many of us who think that the hobbit doesn't look as realistic as LOTR, and a lot of it has to do with CGI.

There can be many different reasons as to why some of us think the CGI in the hobbit looks more fake than what we've seen in LOTR. Part of it is the more widespread use of CGI throughout the hobbit trilogy, as apposed to using more sets/prosthetics/locations/minatures. Another part of it is the crispness and cleanliness of the digital camera that makes CGI more apparent.

Usually the response I receive when I say that is, "Well PJ couldn't use miniatures and had to use CGI and digital because of 3D and 48fps, etc." Well, I already know PJ couldn't use miniatures and filmed on digital for the 3D and 48fps. But that still doesn't change the fact that I think the film looks less realistic than LOTR. In fact, it actually supports my argument (at least from my point of view) that the films look different.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Nov 7 2014, 8:13am


Views: 4944
     unless


In Reply To
They're going the wrong way, right?

If the tunnels are a way for the orcs to get fronm Gundabad to Erebor in secret, we ought to see them coming out of the tunnels near Erebor. But here they are going into the tunnels.

Seems to me that it would be more exciting to show the orcs arriving at the battlefield, instead of starting on their journey (if that's what they are doing).


Unless the tunnels are more or less in front of Mount Gundabad and not exactly in it.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Nov 7 2014, 8:15am


Views: 4963
     Pretty great trailer.

My hopes for BotFA keep going up and down, but with this trailer i'm excited about seeing this final film again. Way too much Kili for me, but otherwise probably the best trailer of all the Hobbit films. Some choice moments for Gandalf, Elrond and Saruman(!), and those trolls with the siege weapons strapped to their backs were absolutely fantastic. I still have a feeling that there's going to be much too much digital double cgi action wankery going on (Legolas, Bolg. Azog, that weird Harry Potter looking goblin baby thing), but it is looking like BotFA is going to be the tightest-- and least disappointing-- of the Hobbit films.

I remain cautiously optimistic.

P.S. In the shot with Thranduil and Bard riding amongst the elven warriors, all the elves have the exact same face. I'm assuming that will be fixed by release.


Drakblod
Rivendell


Nov 7 2014, 8:29am


Views: 4942
     Great points

Also there's two kinds of bad CGI, there's both CGI that just looks bad (like Legolas riding on the bridge at the end of Desolation of Smaug) then there's the CGI that's designed bad (Like Azog, while his CGI quality is pretty good his skin just very smooth and thus looks unnatural)

Bolg was an improvement, and I hope that the armor is covering most of him so Azog'll look better too.

like butter scraped over too much bread.


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Nov 7 2014, 10:37am


Views: 4909
     Ditto, Thranduiliel

to everything you've said. Well, there's nothing for it but to dig in and wait for the movie I guees. With fingers tightly crossed. EvilCrazy

"I'll say dark and gritty, which, with the Elvenking, translates as Hot and Sexy. Cool" - vanima ephel



I fancy myself an ME BFF (Book/Film Fan) Smile
(Aaaaand a gushy Thranduil fangurl before The Hobbit movies; still a gushy Thranduil fangurl through them. Laugh)

Heart Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XXII
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII | XIV | XV | XVI | XVII | XVIII | XIX | XX | XXI


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk




Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 7 2014, 6:44pm


Views: 4840
     Well

I like Loresilme's idea that Saruman could be the hero of Dol Guldur. It would definitely cement his bonfides as the most powerful of the Istari. And first-timers watching the films in order will nod knowingly at Gandalf's "I must see the head of my order. He is both wise and powerful. Trust me Frodo, he'll know what to do." and then be as horrified as Gandalf at his later betrayal.

(I still feel *any* foreshadowing of Saruman's treachery will seriously diminish the concept of a wise Gandalf.)

Perhaps the *only* foreshadowing would be The White Council agreeing to keep an eye out for The One Ring.

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


cats16
Valinor


Nov 7 2014, 8:18pm


Views: 4821
     Interesting

I really like that idea. It builds the audience's trust in Saruman, which will make the events of FOTR feel all the more sinister (and tragic).

And to me it seems that showing Saruman's corruption so soon would taint the huge reveal in Orthanc, as you mentioned in another post.



Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!




Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 7 2014, 11:32pm


Views: 4805
     Yes, quite right. It's been corrected. //

 

Silverlode



Want a LOTR Anniversary footer of your own? Get one here!

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 8 2014, 2:37am


Views: 4811
     Just locking this because the number of responses has exceeded 300

We have found that long threads like this clog up the boards, so we will lock threads once they exceed 300 responses. Please carry on in other active threads.