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Movie Tech. Disc. 5 - Building Middle-earth: Props

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 8 2008, 10:54am Views: 7742 Movie Tech. Disc. 5 - Building Middle-earth: Props PROPTOLOGY: The Journal of Props Professionals http://home.eol.ca/~props/ Some Tips on Making Stage Props http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1097255 The Fan Club Magazine has an interview with Mick Weir, the Props Master on The Lord of the Rings. "My basic responsibility is to look after all the props, including the hero hand props and set dressing for the film. I have nothing to do with weapons or armor – Weta Workshop does all of that. But everything else falls under the art and props departments." (1) One of the props makers working in the Art Department was Chris Streeter. There is an interview with him in the Fan Club Magazine, "‘A lot of research and experiment went into finding new things we could bastardize for use on a set,’ he says, ‘we used a lot of finishers and woodworking [equipment] like polishers. It all depends on the job, really. When you got the designs, you had to decide what it would be made out of – whether it would be a (one-off) or whether you had to make multiple examples of it’ If multiple copies were called for, he says, a mold was a good option for reproduction. The crew relied heavily on plastic urethane, paints of all kinds, esoteric glazes, and expensive gold leaf in order to obtain the most realistic finishes on all of their props." (2) Something that I keep seeing, whether it be in regard to sets, props, or whatever, is the pressure of meeting deadlines. An example given in this article was the lamps that the Elves carried when they left Rivendell. Streeter was told that 50 Elven lamps were needed in two days. It took one day to find the materials and enough labor to do the job. The second day was spent with everyone making the lamps from patterns. Everything was broken down into steps and it was set up as a production process. The lamps were made out of cardboard with a candle inside each one. Luckily, none of them caught on fire. When Streeter was asked what were some of his favorite props that he had worked on, he mentioned the chandelier that Gandalf bumped his head on, the leaded glass windows in Bag End, the firedogs in the Golden Hall, and the Elven telescope in Rivendell. Some of my favorite props in the movies are the statues. The head sculptor was Brigitte Wuest. Brigitte Wuest grew up in Switzerland where she developed skills in drawing, painting, and above all, sculpting. She completed an apprenticeship in graphic design, prop-making, and model-making and then got her first contracted sculpting job sculpting for H. R. Giger. Giger is the Swiss artist that created the creature for the science-fiction movie Alien. In the mid-1990s she moved to New Zealand where in 1999 she applied for a job working on The Lord of the Rings. (3.) On The Lord of the Rings, Brigitte worked collaboratively with Alan Lee. A statue would start with a sketch from Alan and a maquette would be created out of plasticene. After the maquette was approved, a large block of polystyrene would be ordered and the statue drawn up to the right scale. Brigitte said "I would then do the first cuts with a hot wire, and then I would redraw it for the next phase, which was usually a chain saw. After that, it would get more and more detailed, and I would then use a knife to get the final shape and details. Finally, I would use different grades of sandpaper along with little blades to put all the finer details into the final touches." (3) A few of Brigitte’s sculptures were the statues at Weathertop, elven sculptures at Rivendell and Lothlorien, the statue of Helm at Helm’s Deep, the headless statue at the Crossroads, and the large equestrian statue in Minas Tirith. I asked myself, "If I could have one single prop from the movies, not a replica, but one of the actual props, what would it be?" It’s a really tough decision. I went through all of the obvious things, hero weapons, banners, rings and so on, and started narrowing things down. The Elven telescope would be really cool and there is a statuette of two elves dancing (in the scene where Elrond and Gandalf are discussing what should be done with the ring) that I have always had my eye on. I finally decided. If I could have but one single item from the movies, I would want Bilbo’s map of the Lonely Mountain. If you could have one single prop from the LOTR movies, what would it be? In my opinion the single most important prop in The Hobbit will be the Arkenstone. What should it look like; how big should it be; and how would you do it? Does anyone have any experience with props or set dressing or anything of that nature? Sources: 1. The Lord of the Rings Fan Club Official Movie Magazine #4 (pgs. 16 & 17) 2. The Lord of the Rings Fan Club Official Movie Magazine #9 (pgs. 58 – 62) 3. The Lord of the Rings Fan Club Official Movie Magazine #11 (pgs. 40 – 45)

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 8 2008, 11:00am Views: 7218 Daniel Reeve Some of my very favorite props from the movies are Daniel Reeve’s maps and calligraphy. There is a very good interview with Daniel Reeve in Issue 7 of The Lord of the Rings Fan Club Official Movie Magazine. In this interview he describes how he became interested in calligraphy and The Lord of the Rings and how he ended up working on the movies. He read The Lord of the Rings when he was about 15 years old. The ring inscription intrigued him and, as he had always been interested in riddles and decoding things, decoded it. He was also always drawing maps and so he and his brother made a map of Middle-earth. He always loved calligraphy and Elvish was one of those things that he just couldn’t leave alone over the years. When production started on the movies, he was working at a bank as a computer programmer. "I sent in a sample of my work and a letter introducing myself and saying, ‘This is what I can do guys. Do you need any Elvish calligraphers?’ Immediately, [Art Department Manager] Chris Hennah called up and said ‘Come in – we need this sort of stuff.’" (1.) He started out working part time on the movie props, after hours and in the middle of the night. The Props Master, Nick Weir, would call him up and tell him what was needed and he would bring it in the next day or in the next couple of days. He worked with dozens of merchandising licensees and at one point he was asked by New Line to prepare a massive style guide to ensure uniformity in graphic presentation. At that time the work load became too great to do part time and so he quit his job as a programmer and became a full-time freelance artist and calligrapher. In the interview Daniel Reeve talks about doing the ring inscription, Bilbo’s journal, Isildur’s scrolls in Minas Tirith, Saruman’s book, the Book of Mazarbul in Moria, the map of Middle-earth, and much more. At one point he was asked to tell about the large book pages he created for the story of Turin Turambar in the Rivendell chamber. "They were used to decorate the dressings for the Rivendell set. The Elvish verse of the Fall of Gil-galad, which I had to create to follow the first two that J.R.R. Tolkien did in The Lord of the Rings, was interesting. I did that in black and gold calligraphy. The list of Numenorean kings…there are all these details on the Rivendell set. The large book sitting on a lectern in Elrond’s chamber opens on a page. I also designed the Elven telescope that is seen in Elrond’s chamber. That was one of my favorites. The finished article wasn’t done by me, but I had drawn an Elven telescope, and the next time I turned up, there it was! I saw this beautiful brass telescope, and I said, ‘Wow, I designed that!’ The main props designer was away for a few weeks, and Nick Weir called me and wanted me to do some prop design for a few weeks, but I was only able to do a few things, including the telescope. I just drew them up, and Nick took them away and had them made." (1.) He also talks about making and using actual quills to do the calligraphy with and teaching Ian Holm and Elijah Wood how to use a quill to do their scenes writing in Bilbo’s journal. Besides the maps, books, scrolls, parchments and inscriptions found in the movies, Daniel Reeve’s work also extends to merchandising where he was responsible for lettering and design and, of course, the ubiquitous map of Middle-earth. In fact, if something has anything to do with The Lord of the Rings movies, Daniel Reeve has probably done artwork for it. Daniel Reeve is currently a freelance calligrapher, cartographer, and painter and has worked on several other movies, including King Kong and The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. One of his recent projects was the famous and beautiful map of TORN, which some of you just might have heard about. In my opinion, Daniel Reeve contributed to a large part of the magic of these movies. http://www.danielreeve.co.nz/ Sources: 1. The Lord of the Rings Fan Club Official Movie Magazine, #7, (pgs. 60-68)

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 8 2008, 11:16am Views: 7198 Weta One can hardly talk about The Lord of the Rings movies without talking about Weta. Weta was responsible for the design and fabrication of all the miniatures, armor, weapons, creature models and animatronics, prosthetics and special makeup effects. In 1987 Richard Taylor and Tania Rodger set up a small 8 foot by 10 foot workshop in the back of their apartment in Wellington, New Zealand and started the business, RT Effects. They started out art-directing TV commercials and building models, prosthetics, and puppetry for low budget television shows. In an interview in The Lord of the Rings Fan Club Official Movie Magazine, Richard Taylor said "We got our first big break three years into our career when we were given the opportunity to create the puppet work for a New Zealand version of the Spitting Image show. It was while working on that show that we became aware of this young guy up the coast, and he became aware of us as one of a small group of people doing this kind of stuff. He was making this wacky sci-fi horror movie called Bad Taste, and he became aware that we were working on this show called Public Eye. We met and became instant friends – Tania, Peter Jackson, and I. We resolved that we would look for opportunities to work together." (1.) "Jackson employed them in their first collaboration on Meet the Feebles (which, for those who have yet to see it, is often described as "the Muppets on acid"). Following the strength of that project, Taylor and Rodger went on to supervise the creature, gore and model effects, as well as to do a small amount of stop-motion animation, for Braindead (a.k.a. Dead Alive). Jackson, Taylor and Rodger continued in their work together on Heavenly Creatures, based on a famous murder case in New Zealand from the 1950s. It was during the making of this latter film that they leased one computer to do the small amount of digital morphing and animation required of the story. As the production drew to a close, Taylor and Rodger realized that if they let this one computer return to its leaseholder in the United States, it would be a big loss for the visual effects possibilities within their country. So, in 1994, pooling their resources, Peter Jackson, Richard Taylor, Tania Rodger and Jamie Selkirk formed a company called Weta, Ltd., which allowed them to continue leasing the computer. Thus were Weta's humble beginnings." (2) At this time Weta was split into Weta Workshop and Weta Digital. "Taylor continued to focus on physical effects and ran the Workshop (also owned by his partner, Tania Rodger). Which had seven departments: production, design, prosthetics, creatures, armor, weapons, and miniatures . . . The other half of the original company, Weta Digital, upgraded to fifty computers for The Frightners (1995). The success of that film’s effects – if not its box-office results – was what lead the Jackson team to consider Rings." (3.) Here is a list of articles in The Lord of the Rings Fan Club Official Movie Magazine dealing with the work of Weta: Issue 1, "Forging Swords With Richard Taylor", pg. 60 Issue 2, "Creating Sauron", pg. 58 Issue 6, "Uruk-hai Weaponry", pg. 54 Issue 8, "Elven Weaponry and Armor", pg. 48 Issue 10, "FIRSTHAND: Richard Taylor", pg. 48 Issue 16, "The Other Lord Of The Rings (chain mail)", pg. 40 http://www.wetaworkshop.co.nz/about/intro Sources: 1. The Lord of the Rings Fan Club Official Movie Magazine, #10 (pp. 48 - 54) 2. http://mag.awn.com/...&article_no=1344 3. The Frodo Franchise, Kristin Thompson (pp. 293, 294)

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 8 2008, 11:35am Views: 7170 Swords   Peter Lyon made most of the steel "hero" swords used in LOTR. Lyon had always been interested in history and, in college, became particularly interested in the history of medieval Europe. He started playing fantasy role-playing games and from that became interested in medieval combat. He began practicing sword fighting at a club in Hastings and that led him to making his first sword. "I started off making equipment for myself because I couldn’t afford to buy anything good from overseas, and basically there was nothing being made in New Zealand at the time." (1.) It didn’t take long for other people to ask Lyon to start making swords for them. It took up more and more of his time until, in 1994, he decided to make a full-time job of it. Then in April 1998 he was asked to come work for Weta Workshop making swords for LOTR. To make a sword, you start with the blade. Whether the blade is straight or curved, determine if Lyon will make the blade by forging or by cutting and grinding. The next step is to form a fuller in the blade. A fuller is a shallow groove down the center of the blade. Its purpose is to lighten the blade and improve its strength and flexibility. The opposite of a fuller is a rise which is used to make a sword more rigid. Next comes tapering the sword to its tip. After that the edges are roughed out. The part of the blade that fits up inside the handle is called the tang and the part that goes on the end of the handle is called the pommel. "Unusual weapons, Lyon says, are a problem from a design perspective because, frankly, people have been in the blade business for thousands of years. ‘Anything that’s practical as a weapon has been done sometime in the past,’ he says. ‘So to try to make something that’s unique, yet functional and believable, was always a bit of a challenge.’" (1.) Fantasy movies have a long history of ludicrously designed swords that no one would actually be able to use. Sword aficionados often refer to these as SLOs (Sword-Like Objects). But Lyon was not asked to make any SLOs for these movies. He received historically sound designs from the designers at Weta, some of whom knew a few things about sword fighting themselves, such as John Howe. John Howe is an experienced re-enactor which gave the two men a common background which ensured that they worked well together. All of the weapons and armor in the movies was the responsibility of Weta Workshop. In total they built over 2,000 "background" weapons and over 200 "hero" weapons. About a third of the way into pre-production, John Howe was brought in and he educated the designers at Weta as to what a military weapon in the medieval era was about. "With that education, the designers at Weta then went on to design the different weaponry. John Howe did design, or heavily influenced, specific designs. But for the most part, that design work fell on the shoulders of Ben Wootten, Warren Mahy, and Daniel Falconer, who are the three specific weapon designers at Weta." (2) Only the "hero" swords used for close-ups were made of steel. The "fighting" swords were made of aluminum. It is normal in movie-making that a lot of swords get broken during fight scenes. There wasn’t enough time to make the estimated number of swords needed to allow for breakage, so the people at Weta had to come up with a sword that wouldn’t get broken. They came up with a blend of different urethanes for the hilt. The blade was aluminum which was fastened into the urethane hilt. They filled the end of the pommel and the handgrip with lead shot which created the correct balance and also acted as a shock absorber. When the weapon was struck the shock wave traveled down the aluminum, through the urethane and into the lead. Throughout 15 months of filming they had almost zero breakage. Of course they had to make duplicate swords to different scales and they also made swords that were just urethane-cast of just the hilt and the scabbard for when an actor was on horseback or running. Here are links for more information http://www.swords.co.nz/ http://www.tms.org/.../0211/Byko-0211.html http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/a_lotrinter.htm http://www.wetaworkshop.co.nz/...w/profile/peter_lyon Sources 1. The Lord of the Rings Fan Club Official Movie Magazine, #17, (pgs. 40-47) 2. The Lord of the Rings Fan Club Official Movie Magazine, #1. (pgs. 60-67)

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 8 2008, 11:39am Views: 7184 Beam me up Scotty! A technology that I think will become another one of those ground breaking items, like motion control and computer graphics were, is "rapid prototyping" or "3D Printing." This is how 3D Printing works. You have a 3D model of an object on your computer. You send that computer file out as though you were going to print it, only instead of sending it to a regular printer you send it to a 3D printer and instead of getting a paper printout, out pops the actual object. Really! There are all kinds of methods for doing this. One of my favorite methods works like this. You have a cylinder filled with a liquid plastic. In the cylinder is a platform that can be raised or lowered. Above the cylinder is a laser that can scan back and forward and be modulated on and off. Wherever the laser is focused on the liquid plastic, the plastic will harden to a solid. The platform starts out near the top of the liquid. The laser scans out a picture of one slice of the computer model and you end up with one slice of the object in solid plastic. The platform lowers down the thickness of one slice and the process repeats until you have the entire object as one solid piece of plastic. You can even make objects with moveable parts such as gears and so on. This particular method is called Stereolithography. Here is a website that talks a little about it and what I think is a particularly fascinating application. What you can do is use a laser scanner to scan an actual object into the computer. You now have a 3D computer model of that object. That data can then be sent to some other location on the planet and printed out on a 3D printer. Although the original object doesn’t go anywhere, you could say that the object goes in here and pops out there. Cool! http://www.sculptors.com/stereolithography.html Here is another website for one company that makes 3D printers using a slightly different method. They have a photo gallery of some parts made with it. http://www.desktopfactory.com/ Anyway, I thought that this would be a terrific way to make certain movie props, small ones that you needed really fast. I thought that this would be an interesting thing to post about and so I started doing some searches on the Internet for 3D Printing when I came across an interview with Richard Taylor about The Chronicles of Narnia. Here is a section of it from: http://www.comingsoon.net/...nianews.php?id=36748 "CS: How have you been able to work on stuff down in New Zealand while Andrew and the rest of the production team are up here in Czechoslovakia? Taylor: Just very good correspondence through Roger [Ford]'s art directors. We have a production team that daily coordinates with us. They've 3D modeled it. It's amazing how the world has changed in the last five years for us all. He's 3D digitally modeled the castle, we get that data, we put that through our 3D milling machines and our 3D printers, we print pieces and mill pieces. We've had to custom build some machines to actually manufacture the coarse lines in the miniature and so on. It's been quite a mission. It's the same with the swords as well. We had two and a half months to deliver two and a half thousand weapons, so as in the previous film we couldn't hand grind the weapons. We actually purchased a very large 3D milling machine and digitally milled all the blades out, running 24 hours a day, seven days a week to actually get all of the saw blades made in time and then cast urethane hilts onto them all." You might know that Weta would be ahead of me! 3D milling is a whole different thing and is a large part of what I am involved with at work. It is related to motion control and I will talk about that in Filming Middle-earth.

Elven Valinor Feb 8 2008, 2:55pm Views: 7160 This would have to be ... my favourite things about the movies - the fact that they had the work done by hand, by a calligrapher with passion for his art. They could have just had someone sit at a computer and just print the stuff out - but one of the many things I love about Daniels work is that each script is different depending on who wrote the text we see in the movie ... Sarumans book is quite detailed with drawings and wording - it has a finer leaner script .. Bilbo's Spidery font, which Daniel designed is very Hobbitish - round and jolly writing for a round and jolly folk. The map work is absoluetley beautiful ... I was disappointed that there was not much in the EE commenatrys of Daniel at work, though his work is throughout the movie ... and makes some very important appearances .. Isuldurs notes Bilbos book Rivendell Sarumans book Arwens book Eomers Death Warrant The Menus The Covers and inserts of the DVD's These pictures of inscriptions come from: http://www.elvish.org/...movie_otherinscr.htm This is the Imladris book inscription .. and the inscription written (modified) by Daniel Reeves Eomers Death Warrant - from the Screencap Library .. The Marazabul Book inscription The Ring Of Barahir Arwens Book Collage of Daniels work The Maps ... Sarumans Book The Moria Gates Inscription It was with Daniels inspiration that I started doing calligraphy again ... this used to be my footer, and has been photo shopped (not very well) for lighting, but the calligraphy was done by me a few years ago ... Thankyou Daniel for bringing back the ink and nib! ... and thankyou OhioHobbit for including Daniels work in the threads, and for all your work ... and also a big thanks to the technical dept ... Alcarcalime!! Another fantastic week! Cheers Elven The Shire was never the same after Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row. Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Starling Half-elven Feb 8 2008, 7:33pm Views: 7119 Wonderful So glad you posted this. Daniel Reeve' s work is incredible and I also wanted more about him in the EE's. It just looks so grounded in a real world, not something that was thrown together for a movie prop. Your own work is beautiful - thanks for sharing your talent here.

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 8 2008, 10:11pm Views: 7127 Your calligraphy… Looks terrific! I wish that I could do that. I bought some calligraphy pens and gave it a try, but I’m not very good at it. I haven’t given up though. But yours looks great! Thanks for posting all those terrific pictures. I am just totally awed by Daniel Reeve’s work and I think that these movies would have lost a lot without it. It certainly helped make it feel like Middle-earth and, as you said, having the different scripts helped a lot. And what can I say about the maps? I wonder what Tolkien would have thought about Daniel’s work. I do wish that they could have spent some time on this in the extras.

Ataahua Forum Admin / Moderator Feb 9 2008, 12:49am Views: 7142 I hadn't realised that Arwen was reading about the Paths of the Dead. That was when she dropped the book and Elrond took her cold hands in his, no? I'm just trying to place that scene in the movie - it was before Aragorn took the Paths of the Dead because Elrond hadn't travelled to the Firienfeld yet to give him the reforged sword. Was it after Aragorn had arrived at the Firienfeld, though? Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..." Dwarves: "Pretty rings..." Men: "Pretty rings..." Sauron: "Mine's better." "Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak. Ataahua's stories

Elven Valinor Feb 9 2008, 11:37am Views: 7162 I sent Daniel an email about his work on LOTR AND he replied!!! ... answers inside ... I dont usually have the backbone to just ask people and hope they will reply to emails, especially when it involves LOTR, I know people are busy, and have little time .. ... but I could NOT come to this thread knowing that there was just not enough information for us Font Fans without asking Daniel himself a few questions ... and so I emailed him about 5 ... and posted the thread link for him to review ... LOL!!! ... and Lo and Behold!! Daniel graciously answered my main question, and this has been on my mind for ages!! I thank him profusely!! (please dont tell him about the geeky hand clapping and the squeeling on getting a reply ) ... So, from the email correspondence ... I asked Daniel Do you have a list of writings/calligraphy that you did? Daniels reply .... Here is a list of the work I did for the films - plus some of the work in the Style Guides and DVDs, and other merchandise. Elvish Labels for Gandalf’s fireworks (some in 2 sizes) Samples & map for Bilbo’s journal Bilbo’s gate signs (2 sizes) Shire map labeling Thorin’s map prototype Calendar pages – September, April Thorin’s map final versions (2 sizes) Extra fireworks labels Orthanc material (book spreads, loose pages, diagrams, etc) Bilbo’s framed elvish poems (clean and aged copies) Bilbo’s party Invitations One Ring writing Bag End elvish book pages (2 sizes) Red book proposed text Another Thorin’s map, with modified dragon & mountain for close-up Red book calligraphy, maps, illustrations (Bilbo and Frodo) Red book extra insert pages Elijah’s calligraphy training Astrolabe lettering, samples + final Barahir’s ring pages, samples + final + extra pages Balin’s book pages (subsequently copied to bulk up book) Rivendell maps (hero shots) Designs for telescope, sceptre, scroll of kings The Fall of Gil-galad (Rivendell chamber) Samples of book spines Calendar of Imladris conceptual plan Moria gate inscription Large book pages – the story of Turin Turambar (Rivendell chamber) Elvish lettering for exquisite elvish bowl (to be engraved) Orcish graffiti sample Dunharrow map (hero shots) The Scroll of Kings (Rivendell chamber) Caradhras map in English Scribe work in progress (Rivendell chamber) Painting inscriptions (Rivendell chamber) Book spines (Rivendell chamber) Elvish verse books Lettering for Gilraen’s plaque Arwen’s book Elrond’s monogram on drinking flasks Balin’s book (hero pages) Backup final pages of Balin’s book Another Orcish graffiti sample Dwarvish large book hero pages (Moria) Theoden’s maps and scrolls Medical scrolls for the Houses of Healing Minas Tirith library scrolls and Isildur’s scroll (hero scroll read by Gandalf) Minas Tirith tomb inscriptions Elvish map labelling Party invitations and replies Sir Ian Holm calligraphy training Pages for Saruman's Book Example maps for prologue shot Prologue Map - Master (Middle Earth) Prologue Map – Close up (western lands) Movie title samples Beer barrel labels, tobacco labels, "Hornblower" marks, wine bottle labels Faramir’s military map Banishment order from King Theoden Book pages describing “The Paths of the Dead” Elvish scrolls and books for Arwen’s elven library shot Movie titles “The Lord of the Rings” in various languages Movie titles “The Fellowship of the Ring” in various languages Movie titles “The Two Towers” in various languages Movie titles “The Return of the King” in various languages Titles and menus (in various languages) for all three Extended Edition DVDs Maps for all three Extended Edition DVD covers Lettering, name treatments, and fonts for the films’ Style Guides Merchandising maps for the Style Guides Various other artwork graphic designs in the Style Guides Actual merchandise for various companies (see my website for more details) Daniels website is www.danielreeve.com I am too thrilled for words! What a massive list! There is scripting here I wasnt aware of, so Im off to find them in the movie scenes ... I cant copy from a disc, but if anyone has any of these pictures ... maybe we could make a collection of Daniels work over the week ... and its confirmed! Daniel did do Eomers Banishment Order, and there are also Theodens Maps and scrolls, so yes, Rohan had writings! ... (I know these questions were asked about in one of the Screencaps - the one which shows Grima holding the Order out to Eomer) WOOT!!! *happy dance* Cheers all Elven The Shire was never the same after Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row. Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Peredhil lover Valinor Feb 9 2008, 1:45pm Views: 7114 Oh wow! That's quite an impressive list! No wonder he had to give up his other job to make enough time to do all this. His new one is so much more fascinating, isn't it? He could make an exhibition all for himself with all these fascinating things. Wouldn't that be great to see? Thanks for being courageous enough to ask him at all, and for posting this. I'm sure you're going to treasure his answer! I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

Elven Valinor Feb 9 2008, 4:03pm Views: 7151 Even better ... I missed one email ... Daniel says he is answering the questions one at at time ... SO THERES MORE to come!! ... and yes, I did ask if there might be a publication of his works. I cant wait to see the answer - I so dare not hope that far but I would agree, it would be a wonderful book indeed! But the list is so extensive! It is alot of work ... I can only imagine ... it takes such a length of time to design script. Its not just a matter of having the words to write, but knowing or developing the type of font to be used, how it will fit onto the page, the spacing, the angle, the width of each letter, the nib to use, the colour of the ink, the texture of the parchment or paper ... the consistancy of the font ... the flow ... there are so many decisions to make ... and also Daniel had the challenge of a script that needed some revision ... in several fonts that was not familiar as just writing ... like writing another language .. like Japanese .. its very hard to understand how critical a line extention here or there is to the wording if you have no idea of what you are writing ... an extra stroke here or there or an extra dot can change the word totally .. I know I mark out first my pages ... (if I cant use a guideline from underneath the page which I can see) I must rule the page lightly so as I keep the letters at consistent heights and widths .. prior to that I have chosen the words and the font to use to match those words - a form of expression in itself, I select the pen and nib - as the font height and width is sometimes reliant on the width of the nib. I usually have done a few drafts to get the words and spacing to my liking ... and then I map out where it will all go, and look best on the page. I notice Daniels pages give the impression that they are aged ... and this in itself is quite a challenge to get right. Artificially aging paper is difficult (for me anyway) .. as any change to the paper surface usually requires care, as when the scripting is placed on the page in ink it can easily bleed into the paper if the paper has been coated with a water soluable ink wash, or if it has been coloured and it is too waxed, the ink may not take to the surface ... there's a whole list of things that can occur .... and when you make a mistake ... you cant just rub it out ... as the paper shows the rub marks ... its very frustrating ... The papers in the LOTR may have been already artificially aged and then reproduced onto paper, so as this type of thing doesnt happen. Im not sure how this was approached - but the pages look great. I wanted to show how easy it is to get right into something like calligraphy and make a mistake ... where hours of work go down the tube if it cant be mended ... Below I have a picture of a map (enhanced shot) I was working on - it was in it's early stages of being finished, but this took me a while to get it to this stage. Its the complete map of Beleriand and the Lands to The North ... as I started to write in the names of places in ink and nib, I become very nervous ... I kept checking I was going to write in the right place and then bam ... I noticed I was making a mistake in the word Nevrast (you can see the beginning of an E, which has been changed to look like an R .. it would have said Neverast ... and tried to correct it ... not very well). With my mind on that, what did I do next ... made an unfixable mistake and rewrote a place twice AND I missed the spot .... see where there are two 'Brithombar" 's! - bottom left! This is what happens when I dont pencil in my places first ... *sigh* .. I wonder if Daniel made some mistakes and had to start again during his process ... Does anyone have pictures of their calligraphy too - not necessarily 'mistakes' ... anything you've written? And another question ... does anyone know if there's a picture anywhere for Elronds insignia? Cheers Elven Cheers Elven The Shire was never the same after Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row. Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

FarFromHome Valinor Feb 9 2008, 4:09pm Views: 7139 Arwen drops the book in the scene right after her return to Rivendell after seeing the vision of her son. Aragorn was still at Edoras watching Gandalf ride away when the vision scene began. In Reply To That was when she dropped the book and Elrond took her cold hands in his, no? I'm just trying to place that scene in the movie I believe that in the original script she was to have found this book with information about the Paths of the Dead in the Rivendell library, and it was realizing just what Aragorn was going to have to do that made her drop the book. I don't know whether Elrond already knew about the Paths of the Dead, or whether finding the information in the book was what led him to agree to reforge the Sword and take it to Aragorn. ...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew, and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth; and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore glimmered and was lost.

Peredhil lover Valinor Feb 9 2008, 6:13pm Views: 7113 More to come? Oh, I hope you'll share that with us, too! I am sure Daniel will not mind, as it's nothing private. Ah yes - a book about his work would be even better than an exhibition, because there could be more explanations *and* we could buy it! *crosses fingers* It would be interesting to know how the aging of the paper was done and all that - had wondered that myself. As you said, that is a tricky business. Your map is truly beautiful - how sad you made the mistakes! It must have been terribly frustrating to realise this wonderful work is ruined. And I don't do calligraphy, but I know how that works - sometimes I make silly typos and am angry at myself and of course, then I make even more typos and become even more angry and make even more typos ... you get it ... The more one thinks about the mistakes, the more goes wrong. (Only difference is that typos are easy to fix) I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 9 2008, 8:05pm Views: 7100 Way to go, Elven! This is really exciting! Sometimes it pays just to take a chance and go for it. It certainly paid off. That list is amazing, isn’t it? You asked about a book? That would be absolutely fantastic. I know that between you and I there are at least two copies already sold. I would place mine right next to my copy of Alan Lee’s The Lord of the Rings Sketchbook. That would definitely make me dust off my calligraphy pens. Thanks for the description of how you go about doing your calligraphy and about the problems of aging paper. And special thanks for the picture of your map (which looks wonderful, by the way) and talking about the problems you had with it. It made me think two things. First is that I certainly know how that feels because I have done things like that, too, and second, that I really need to make some time to get back into art. Isn’t that odd now? Reminding me of making mistakes makes long to try and make some more. Speaking of maps, I’m not into roleplaying games, but I bought Maps of Middle-earth for The Lord of the Rings Roleplaying Game. Needless to say, the maps are wonderful and a booklet came with them that describes the different areas of Middle-earth and inside the front cover is a nice little piece about Daniel Reeve. Thanks again, Elven. This is really great!

Peredhil lover Valinor Feb 9 2008, 8:10pm Views: 7085 Make that three copies //   I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 9 2008, 8:22pm Views: 7102 Please... reserve three copies of The Art of Daniel Reeve for Peredhil lover, Elven, and me.

entmaiden Forum Admin / Moderator Feb 9 2008, 8:28pm Views: 7110 Speaking of Daniel we still have TORN map posters available, made exclusively for TORN by Daniel Reeve. See the sticky note on the Home Page! /shameless plug Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver. `Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder. `I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves. NARF since 1974. Balin Bows

Starling Half-elven Feb 9 2008, 11:52pm Views: 7112 *jumps up and down in geeky fashion* This is great - thank you so much. Your work is beautiful. I think I would be too impatient to even try, it must be so frustrating when you make a mistake. Regarding artificial aging of paper, I have a memory of someone saying they used old tea-bags to age paper in LOTR! I don't know where I got that (maybe it's an urban myth) but it wouldn't surprise me - it's kind of a classic Kiwi way to do things. I'm so glad you e-mailed him.

Elven Valinor Feb 10 2008, 3:31am Views: 7091 Bwaha! A wonderful shameless plug for Daniels work! No worries! The torn Map is a beautiful, and should be added shamelessly to the list of things for LOTR!! I have my copy and its a treasure!! Thanks entmaiden! Cheers Elven The Shire was never the same after Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row. Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Elven Valinor Feb 10 2008, 4:44am Views: 7124 Daniel Reeves answers the question relating to "the individual styling of the fonts" .... Another reply from Daniel Reeve .... I asked Daniel: > I noticed that each character had their own 'scripting style' for example > Sauruman's handwriting is lean and the font faces forward. Bilbo's spidery > font is round and jolly - like him. Were these things you determined, and > how did you approach each characters script? Yes, it was up to me to come up different 'looks', so that it didn't appear that all of Middle-Earth had been documented by one scribe! First, I designed alphabets for each main race, trying to capture their distinctive cultural elements. The Shire alphabet was the most important, of course, and is the most rustic, quaint-looking of them all. Naturally, the Gondor and Rohan styles were linked, since the are both of the race of Men, but the Gondor style is straighter, more austere, and able to be chiselled into stone, while the Rohan style draws on (our real history's) older, more obscure, more Celtic-looking alphabets. I also made an English-readable (ie. Latin) Elvish alphabet, because there were some things Peter wanted to be readable on-screen - and this later came into its own when I worked on the Style Guide lettering. Having established these basic alphabets, I could then inject individual characteristics into the styles of individuals - notably Bilbo and Frodo. But there actually wasn't a huge demand for this, because many props were of unknown authorship, and were often in tengwar or cirth characters anyway. Even so, it's relatively straightforward to apply different styles to different pieces, simply by changing the proportions and slope of the lettering, exaggerating or eliminating flourishes, emphasising different strokes, changing line-spacing, creating different ornamentation, and by writing with different nibs, or using a quill instead of a pen, etc. WOW!! More work and design! I love the way that the fonts for Bilbo and Frodo being described as rustic and quaint. There is a font called Uncial which is pronounced "un-shell" which I think is a good basis for the start of the what looks to be a Hobbits handwriting. Its letters are quite round and flow from the hand nicely. Daniels Shire font reminds me of this style - its very rustic and quaint! Daniel had to teach Bilbo and Frodo how to write. There are two scenes where we see Bilbo and Frodo writing - one is the beginning of the movie, and the beginning of Bilbo's book - on Hobbits, then at the end Frodo is writing the last of his memoirs before he gives the book to Sam ... in both scenes the Hobbit write with a cut quill - which is a feat in itself from the screencap library http://www.framecaplib.com/...es/rotk/thumb103.htm From FOTR ... Bilbo starts his book. Frodo finishing the last chapter in the Red Book Some things I noticed from the pictures ... The pages edges are ragged ... heavy good quality paper often has a ragged edge, though some papers or board are cold/hot pressed so they have a different suface texture. This is especially good for the type of pen, ink, surface you are creating to put your calligraphy onto. The ink is a brown ink .... most art supply shops have different coloured inks, or you can make your own from gouche paints, or any paint usually ... from what I have read, Tolkien used a brand called 'Quill' which is still available ... Hobbit are very neat writers .. LOL!! If you have ever seen the movie Shakespeare in Love, you will see that when writing with a quill, theres a whole lot of ink, on your fingers, and blotches on blotting paper, and usually no feather bits on the end of your quill pen ... the Hobbits did very well not to get covered in ink and have a blotchy manuscript! As far as I can work out from the pictures ... the last bit in the title Lord of The Rings by Frodo Baggins may have been done by Elijah, as there is an inconsistency with the line (it starts to move upwards) .. and the accents over the letters ... there is also a gap difference in the two 'n' s. and alas .. I could not find in the screencaps a picture of the "Party Business" sign. Maybe someone has a copy of it and can post it? A big thanks to Daniel for his response about the developing of the scripts!! Its very interesting indeed!! So much thought and preparation! I really hope theres a book in store for us to read ...!!! *crosses fingers* Cheers Elven The Shire was never the same after Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row. Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Elven Valinor Feb 10 2008, 5:05am Views: 7085 Theres another thread added from Daniels response ... No, thats OK, the replys are not private ... they are for this discussion and thread specifically . I told Daniel we were discussing his work, and gave him the link to the thread, so he could have a look too and mistakes ... Ive made a few ... I did it myyyyyyyyyyyyyyy wayyyyyy!!! The Shire was never the same after Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row. Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Elven Valinor Feb 10 2008, 5:11am Views: 7080 We'll need a few then ... :D One to keep One to drool over and a couple to cut the picture out and paste on our walls! I'd love to make a fimo transfer onto a tile - There and Back Again, in the scripting... and hang it on my front door .. I would, but I can never get the transfer to work!! I'll put our order in then, shall I? LOL! Cheers! The Shire was never the same after Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row. Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Peredhil lover Valinor Feb 10 2008, 7:37am Views: 7071 Thanks! I didn't realise they are still available. When the whole thing was organised, I was still lurking only and didn't think I could get one at all ;-) Hm, I am very tempted to order one. Have to think about it and where it would fit on the wall in my flat :-) I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

Elven Valinor Feb 10 2008, 9:06am Views: 7166 Daniel Reeves answers the question relating to the writings of Rohan ... I asked Daniel .... > There was a discussion regarding the writings of Rohan - as much as we can > determine, Eomers Death Warrant was the only written piece. Were any further > writings done for them? Was a script developed for the Rohan's? Okay, the previous email kinda covered this one: I developed a distinctive Rohan style, but I think the Death Warrant was about the only thing written with it. I created this prop during the "pick-up" shots (extra shots done some time after the main shoot, for The Two Towers in this case), by which time I'd already developed the Rohan look for the Style Guide. I now discover, by looking at my photo records, that I had done the earlier Rohan stuff (eg. the main map for the tent at Dunharrow) in a mixture of styles. ********************************* So here we see some of the only writings of Rohan in the films, and its such a shame that this was only put into the Extended editions of the movie ... This is an extract from the Art Director from the commentaries ... Dan Hennah (Supervising Art Director/Set Director) "The Death Warrant ... I was disappointed it didnt make the film .. you know (laughs) ... It was great ... we actually made up Theodens seal and it was just a piece of dressing, and then all of a sudden it was a requirement for this Death Warrant – wow! Great! Lets get out the wax ...." ************* This paper is almost like an old parchment - I love the colour. I will always be curious as to what the full Banishment Order says ... I had a look and cant see a unfurled version of it, but basically it follows the lines of what Grima says to Eomer, and then the signature of the King - and the signature is great!! very scarey .. angular ... thick, simple ... a bit like Theoden at the time ... Thankyou once more to Daniel for this insight!!! ... I will try to find a picture of the main map at Dunharrow ... and post it also! Cheers Elven x The Shire was never the same after Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row. Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Elven Valinor Feb 10 2008, 11:46am Views: 2249 Gondor writing style ... This is a picture of the Map which Faramir uses at Henneth Annun to outline what is happening ... a geeky observe is that the hand we usually see pointing to the places is actually Peter Jacksons hand (another hand cameo - the other is a shot of Sams hand as he holds his sword as he faces Shelob ... its Peters hand) ... but onto the map ... The paper here reminds me of what I call 'butchers paper' or 'fish and chip paper' ... its relatively thin and comes in large sheets ... which is perfect for map drawing! ... but I think they would have maybe used other paper for the film This map is interesting, as the places which are on the map are all relevant to whats been covered in the film ... a viewer would be familiar with the names .. its not as detailed as other maps, and simplifies the scene ... the writing is large, and the map is very clear to read ... its not coloured and elaborate, its a travelling map, so I dont think it would have to be that ornante ... I also love the way that in many of the shots you can see that te maps have fold marks and creases in them ... as they should if they have been stored by the traveller ... The font for this map is very clear also From this collage you can see the list at the bottom which reads Knights of the Riddermark ... this is more Rohan writings and is a little more elegant than the Gondorian writings (IMHO) .. there is also a large page to the left ... the Capitals of the Rohans seem to have that distictive flourish to them and are thickened with either a second line or are bold ... though the rest of the scripting may not be so delicate in places ... Here we see Gandalf amonst the Archives in Mainas Tirith ... Daniel also did the scripting for the Archive pages ... This is not the shot I wanted to show, I wanted to show Isuldurs writings about the ring ... as the font has quite an Elvish style to it, moreso than a Gondorian style (IMHO) ... also it has the wording of the ring in the same font as is on the ring ... so Isuldur has copied the scripting from the ring onto the pages of the memoirs ... Here is the scripting Daniel designed for the Ring ... and some more Hobbit writings .... I think Bilbo has a slightly softer touch to his writings ... The strokes and pressure of his pen is more freehand ... and you can tell he likes drawing and decorating his book as well Shire Map in the Red Book You can see in Bilbos map of the Lonely Mountain how it has been given an aged treatment, and the creases and folds adds to it ... A geeky observation ... If you drag out your Hobbit book and have a look at the writing of Tolkien on his Map of the Lonely Mountain ... now this is just my own interpretation here, but .... you might see that some of the words with extended or high strokes have been added after the word was written ... so he might have embellished the font after the map was drawn ... the strokes are not one piece, but two .... for example ... the 'H & L' in 'The Desolation of Smaug' ... you can see where the pen line extends from a usual size font ... The word 'The' in 'The Running River' looks also as if it has had it's H stroke lengthened ... same with the 'H & L' in 'The Lonely Mountain' 'West Lies Mirkwood The Great There are Spiders' ... the 'L, K, H' are extensions... and 'Thor's Map' ... the 'H' in Thor ... and possibly 'Far to The North' ... the extended 'H' ... We must discuss some Elvish writings maybe soon too Cheers Elven .. The Shire was never the same after Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row. Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

entmaiden Forum Admin / Moderator Feb 10 2008, 12:25pm Views: 2246 Thanks for finding those I'm reminded again of the level of care and love for Tolkien that is embedded so deeply in these movies. Eomer's banishment order is wonderful, and I'm sorry it didn't get into the movies. When I was corresponding with Daniel during the Map project, I just had to tell him that his work was the turning point for me - when I saw "No Admittance Except on Party Business" and Thror's Map, I relaxed because I knew the movies were in the hands of people who loved Tolkien as much as I do. He responded that that was exactly what he felt when he started working on the movies and saw the sets, costumes and props - he just knew the movies were being made by the right people. Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver. `Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder. `I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves. NARF since 1974. Balin Bows

Elven Valinor Feb 10 2008, 1:09pm Views: 2221 I sooo agree!! Its one thing I will always kick myself over, and that was not understanding what was going on with the torn map *waves hand over head* ... I have one now, but Im not there, which is my own fault ... but as I see, there is a great connection between Daniel and the fonts and writings, and also the fans and followers of Tolkiens work, he understands the importance of getting it right .... I think Tolkien would have admired it all greatly. I can see Tolkiens love for scribing in the way he did his own calligraphy and maps - his pen drawings and the way he 'had' to express what he was writing about ... I cherish that immensely. Im glad so much attention was given to the calligraphy! I makes it all the better!! Cheers entmaiden! The Shire was never the same after Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row. Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 10 2008, 2:40pm Views: 2198 Such great behind-the-scenes detail! This is wonderful! Fascinating information! Everything was thought out with so much attention to detail. It was that attention to detail that made everything feel so right even if just subconsciously and one is not exactly sure why. But I love knowing why. It is one thing to look at the calligraphy and think, “Isn’t that beautiful”, and quite another to know that Gondorian is straighter and able to be carved into stone, and the Rohan style is more Celtic-looking, and how individual styles were achieved. It is so nice of Daniel to take the time to do this. I feel like I should say so much more. Great observations on your part about the ragged page edges, the brown ink, the lack of blotches and dirty fingers, and “the last bit in the title Lord of the Rings by Frodo Baggins.” Thanks, Elven!

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 10 2008, 2:43pm Views: 2211 The Death Warrant. You know, when I read your quote I hear Dan Hennah’s voice. I think I’ve seen these things too many times, LOL. I whish that the death warrant could have been included in the theatrical edition. Also, I think that it is perfectly logical that there should be a style of script for Rohan. There were periods of time in history when not only entire populations could not read or write, but even the royalty could not, except for their scribes. It would be reasonable though, that Theoden could read and write.

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 10 2008, 2:45pm Views: 2207 And one book to rule them all? I was going to say “What’s fimo transfer precious, what is fimo transfer?” But no, I won’t say that. What is fimo transfer?

Elven Valinor Feb 10 2008, 3:41pm Views: 2216 Ah! You made me think about something ... and that was that in the Death Warrant or Banishing Order ... I remember asking if Grima may have written it without Theoden knowing ... but now I see this a bit differently, as Grima 'was once a man of Rohan' ... his writing style would be of a Rohirrim, and he seems educated ... (beyond his sense of dress and hair stylist) ... he has been servant in the Tower of Lore and Wizadry ... I think he did write the Death Warrant ... as he would not have maybe allowed a scribe to write it ... and that the signature is Theodens ... as Theoden can hardly sit on his chair, let alone write something as neat and ordered as that document is ... and the signature is sooo radical ... it is not to say that Theoden cant write ... Im sure he can, because he can read ... (I cant remember where I see him reading over something ... maybe its before Aragorn comes in and says the beacons are lit .... but at the time of the warrant being given to Eowyn he possibly could have done nothing ... Im not even sure he could have dictated something like that either ... so I guess - this is actually Grimas handwriting? Thanks for the reply OhioHobbit, you are certainly making me think (movie-wise)! Cheers Elven The Shire was never the same after Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row. Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Lily Fairbairn Half-elven Feb 10 2008, 3:58pm Views: 2229 Great thread, Ohiohobbit and Elven! Thank you both so much for taking the time to put it all together. As for Daniel Reeve's amazing work, I should be meeting him briefly next month, as part of my Red Carpet tour of New Zealand -- I plan to take the opportunity to thank him for the TORn map, but I'll also ask him about putting together a book of his LotR work. * * * * * * * Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight? A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!"

Elven Valinor Feb 10 2008, 3:59pm Views: 2213 Fimo transfer ... Is liquid clay ... or polymere actually, and its transparent. Fimo is polymere clay (moulding clay plasticy stuuf) comes in a little brick ... that you mould and can put in the oven and bake ... it hardens like clay ...you can make all sorts of stuff with it ... The fimo transfer clay goes over a picture ...and then you place the picture onto a fimo tile face down and bake it. When its cooked you peel the paper off and underneath the transparent clay has taken the image and it looks like a tile ... the only thing to remember is that with pictures they will transfer backwards if you dont reverse them first ... so I make a copy on the computer ... reverse it and print it out and use that though as I said ... I have little luck, as the paper and the ink from the printer is vital to it working, and I never seem to be able to have the right paper when I want to do these things at 1am in the morning ... or I run out of trnsparent clay ... or I drop it on the way to the oven ... or I forget about it and it burns ... its all good fun though! Hope that makes some sense Cheers Elven The Shire was never the same after Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row. Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Elven Valinor Feb 10 2008, 4:07pm Views: 2215 Oh wow Lily!! Thats wonderful!! I hope, Im sure actually, you'll have an amazing time. Daniel is also doing one of the Red Carpet Tours - a sketching tour - later in the year ... this would be so awesome to do, Im soooo jealous LOL - in the nicest possible way!! Please thank him from all of us if you get a chance!! . Im really enjoying having the chance in these threads to look over all the calligraphy ... its not often discussed so Im grabbing this opportunity with both hands There's more of Daniels emails to come, so please come back and have a read Lily Cheers Elven The Shire was never the same after Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row. Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Peredhil lover Valinor Feb 10 2008, 4:34pm Views: 2225 A few accidents too much Elven, you should go to bed early and try all this at 1 pm - somehow I get the feeling it would be better for the outcome! But thanks for the explanation, I hadn't ever heard of Fimo, either! I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

Peredhil lover Valinor Feb 10 2008, 4:38pm Views: 2194 Wow! You're a lucky girl! Oh yes, when you get to meet him, please tell him what a wonderful work he did - not only for the TORn map, but for the whole movie trilogy. And if you could convince him about the book, that would be great! I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

Lily Fairbairn Half-elven Feb 10 2008, 4:54pm Views: 2200 The sketching tour We'd already signed up for the regular tour when they organized the sketching tour, or I would have been tempted. I'm having to mostly lurk these days, but I will be sure to watch for the calligraphy messages. Thanks! * * * * * * * Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight? A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!"

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 10 2008, 6:09pm Views: 2192 That makes sense. The nest time I go to the art store I am going to see if they have that. Thanks, Elven.

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 10 2008, 6:10pm Views: 2189 LOL! //

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 10 2008, 6:13pm Views: 2196 WOW from me too. Yes, thank Daniel for all of us. And please do have a good time, because since I can’t go, I plan to live vicariously through you.

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 10 2008, 6:15pm Views: 2191 That is all perfectly logical. //

Ainu Laire Tol Eressea Feb 10 2008, 6:41pm Views: 2218 Daniel Reeve... First off, thank you to OhioHobbit and Elven for this absolutely amazing thread! Daniel Reeve is absolutely amazing, and I hope he publishes a book one day with his work; I already have Alan Lee's sketchbook, and would be thrilled to see a book with his work. I met him at ORC 2006. He actually brought the Red Book of Westmarch, Isildur's letter, and other great goodies. He was also selling personalized Birthday Invitations there, and I scrapped up a few dozen dollars to buy myself one- it is now framed and one of my most prized possessions. And the actual invite. I erased my last name on photoshop. And yes, I had to have "Laire" there as well :D Finally, if you want to see about half of the 100 or so pictures I took at Daniel's panel, I wrote up about it in 2006 in my LJ. Not all of the pictures turned out that great, unfortunately. My LJ My art site

Ataahua Forum Admin / Moderator Feb 10 2008, 6:48pm Views: 2206 Now *that* is wicked. I had to smile: When I read "111th birthday" I heard Bilbo's voice at his party. :) Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..." Dwarves: "Pretty rings..." Men: "Pretty rings..." Sauron: "Mine's better." "Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak. Ataahua's stories

Elven Valinor Feb 10 2008, 7:03pm Views: 2207 Oh gosh!! That is marvelous!! A real invitation!!! WOW!! I haven't seen one before!! Thankyou so much for posting your pics of it! .. and Daniel scribing with a quill ... sends me back to a past life in a monestary somewhere in Tuscany ... LOL!! ... What a treasure to have an invitation to Bilbos Party. Totally Cool! Thanks so much Ainu Laire! Cheers Elven The Shire was never the same after Barbra Cartland moved into Bagshot Row. Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Urambo Tauro Rivendell Feb 10 2008, 8:57pm Views: 2192 Re: Movie Tech. #5 - Props This is probably my favourite of the Movie Tech threads: the props. So much care is put into these, and the levels of detail can make your head spin. I'm particularly fascinated by the swords and calligraphy (and various rings, too). Having handled many of the United Cutlery replicas, I find myself highly impressed by their accuracy. But, looking back at pictures and video of the original props, I see details here and there that were just too fine to replicate. Peter Lyon has visited a couple of other forums I frequent, and has shed light on various aspects of making the swords. For example, Narsil/Andúril has a small hollow in the cross-guard near the blade. At one point, a stone was intended to be set there. There are Sun-rays etched on Andúril's blade, and are arranged so that this hollow is at the center. The plan was to have a golden-yellow stone (possibly citrine or topaz) there, representing the sun. For various reasons, this concept was later dropped, but the hollow is still there! The calligraphy throughout the film is all legible. None (that I am aware of) is nonsense. You can read the walls of the Chamber of Mazarbul or Gilraen's grave-stone. You can read the runes on Glamdring or the pages of the Book of Saruman. It's all discernable. Have you seen the Nine Rings of Men? They look quite different from the rings the Nazgûl wear. Somewhere along the way, the Nine rings "wither" into thinner rings exhibiting details that are more overtly evil. The "Kings" on the sides of the rings become skeletons, and the stone becomes a red Eye. And there's so much more... (This post was edited by Urambo Tauro on Feb 10 2008, 8:59pm)

Arwen's daughter Half-elven Feb 10 2008, 9:34pm Views: 2190 When props are successful no one ever notices them What a fantastic thread this is. We could spend a lifetime looking at all of the props used in the movie! I love that they chose to make every single prop rather than risk someone in the audience owning those glasses or that chandelier, etc. I wonder, though, if they had any idea what they'd done when they decided that. Let's face it, most of us never looked past the characters on our first viewing. I know I may have noticed a detail here or there, but I always catch something new in images and viewings. The sheer number of props and details astounds me, and moreso realizing that some things that were made probably never made it on film. By the way, the LOTR costume site has some images of props, mostly pieces that have been on display alongside the costumes. You can find them Here. And if I could have any piece from the movies, I'd probably swipe either one of the banners from the battles or anything from the Rivendell set. The furniture and props there are excellent. I guess, though, that I'm drawn to the textiles. Or maybe one of the pipes the Hobbits and Gandalf used.... or.... I could keep going naming favorite props. Thanks, OhioHobbit, for bringing us these great discussions! My LiveJournal My Costuming Site February's Screencap of the Day Schedule

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 10 2008, 10:04pm Views: 2182 That is amazing! An invitation to Bilbo’s party – that is remarkable on so many different levels. And then there is the picture of Daniel Reeve creating it. It is all just magical. Thank you so much for sharing it.

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 11 2008, 12:11am Views: 2183 And there’s so much more... The hardest thing in doing any of this movie technical discussion is trying to decide what and how much to include. There is just so very much and so much is going to get left out. It just boggles the mind. I never realized just how huge it all is. You have some fascinating information that I never heard before. They talked so much about the hollow on Narsil, but they never explained why it was there. If it is so difficult to do then why design it that way? Now I know. Personally, I think I like the hollow more than I would have liked a stone. I am going to have to check out the nine rings. That is so cool. Thanks for the link. Those translations are terrific!

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 11 2008, 12:13am Views: 2193 A lifetime looking at all of the props Could you imagine wandering through where ever these things are stored? I think something that would be really neat would be to see pictures of all the props that were never seen in the movies. I wonder if among all of the props there are some things that will never see the light of day again. I have a vision of the last scene in Raiders of the Lost Arc. Thanks for posting the link. There are some great pictures of props there. I felt like a kid in a candy store. By the way, next week’s discussion in on costumes. The prop that you would choose - it isn’t easy, is it?

Peredhil lover Valinor Feb 11 2008, 6:16am Views: 2373 Yes, that's what I said from the beginning At the first one or two viewings, one concentrates on the plot and probably the actors, but in later viewings, one starts to take in the background, and then one finds new things every time. There are so many details in the background, in the props, costumes ... It is simply impossible to take everything in in one viewing. And these details are very much part of the huge success, I think - they make everything so real. You can feel the love with which they were made. I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

Peredhil lover Valinor Feb 11 2008, 6:24am Views: 2377 Now I've done it! After being a bit in doubt if I should buy it, because I'm not so very interested in the merchandising, I finally ordered 'The Frodo Franchise' - it was quoted enough in the last time here to convince me most of it would be interesting. And after Ainu Laire mentioned it, I ordered Alan Lee's scetchbook as well - somehow I overlooked it, probably because it's not translated into my language. This discussion left me wanting it so much! Thank you again, OhioHobbit, for this great idea! It is so much fun to talk about all these wonderful things! And I've started to watch my EE extras again. I *needed* to I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

Earl Forum Admin / Moderator Feb 11 2008, 6:25am Views: 2370 Beautiful maps all I too created maps of The Shire and Middle-earth some years ago (I'll put up pics soon as I can) I used to stay up late nights in my room doing so. Very very hard work, but fun. I did the whole map to scale in pencil and then went over it all in black ink. While Iwait to get back home and take a few pics, just a comment on Faramir's map that I noticed since I minutely went over the details of all maps I could find in order to get my maps just right. I realized that there's a typo in that map - Dagorlad is spelt Dagorland. A little hearbreaking that it found its way in there But not much to fret about. Elvish "Dagor" (Battle) + Elvish "lad" (Plain) got transcribed Elvish "Dagor" (Battle) + Engligh (Land). So from Battle Plain we're left with Battle Land (with a mix of vocab)

Peredhil lover Valinor Feb 11 2008, 6:28am Views: 2368 Wow! You got a birthday invitation with your name on it? Oh, that's great - I'm a bit envious And thank you for mentioning Alan Lee's sketchbook. It's not translated in my language, as far as I can tell, and probably for this reason I overlooked it. Now I've ordered it I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

Starling Half-elven Feb 11 2008, 6:52am Views: 2377 Brings back memories My sister and I were mad on Fimo as children, and used to make all sorts of things with it. I still have the cute ice-cream cone and block of chocolate she made. Thanks for reminding me. Running out of time but want to say: I am loving this thread and the chance to read/look/learn about all of this. What talent!

Ainu Laire Tol Eressea Feb 11 2008, 7:53am Views: 2368 Yep! Both names, too- RL and screenname! My screenname has become such a part of me that I simply cannot go anywhere without it. I wanted the Ringscript too, but it was simply wayyyy too pricey for me, and I liked that this one was personalized. Oh, you simply have to get his sketchbook. There isn't that much text, but the sketches themselves are absolutely amazing. I've been copying them and trying to get a grasp on his style. And I'm going to have to order the Frodo Franchise, myself, after all of this discussion on it. xD My LJ My art site

Elven Valinor Feb 11 2008, 11:47am Views: 2373 Ooo Great! That would be wonderful Earl! I'd love to see your maps! As soon as you get the chance, please post them! A curious thing, to pick up on a map name thats not spelt correctly. I have poured over some of my own and yet never 'see' them, though I check and check again. Sometimes I think these things happen (the unobvious ones) almost like they are something which stakes claim to the artist - well thats my theory ... and so when they are reproduced, the error is not so much an error, but a signature stamp ... Cheers Earl Elven Amy Winehouse acquires Shire retreat for Summer ... Amy Winehouse sells Shire retreat in Autumn ... Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Loresilme Valinor Feb 11 2008, 6:42pm Views: 2368 Your calligraphy is beautiful! And your fanboy/girl footer is quite funny!

Loresilme Valinor Feb 11 2008, 6:50pm Views: 2364 You'll be glad you did I have mine on the wall of my home office. Every time I look at it, it makes me smile.

Loresilme Valinor Feb 11 2008, 6:55pm Views: 2358 Fascinating! "It's amazing how the world has changed in the last five years for us all." Wow .... what was so cutting edge in LOTR is now already dated?! These are the most interesting features OH, I learn so much from them. Thanks!

weaver Half-elven Feb 11 2008, 7:20pm Views: 2389 well, I am just glad you don't give homework in this class... I finally had a chance to read through this week's installment -- and I again learned a lot. I laughed, though, when you got to the part about how they had to make "a sword that couldn't be broken." A rather nice play on words that reflects, I guess, that films and books are two different things! That 3-D imaging thing is amazing technology. Beam me up Scotty is right... Oh, and now I want to be a calligrapher, though no one can read my handwriting. Sign me up for a Daniel Reeve book too! Thanks so much Ohio Hobbit and the rest of you who made this such a fascinating thread! Weaver

Elven Valinor Feb 11 2008, 8:13pm Views: 2467 Daniel Reeve answers the question regarding other things he designed for ME - like the Calender of Imladris! ..The Red Book .. His own Book and more .... There so much to discuss! Daniel has sent the rest of the answers to the questions I posed, so I thought I will put them here in one post, so as we can discuss them easier than having several. Daniel's responses are in purple Here we go! My question: > What piece took the longest time to create? Daniel: The Red Book, without doubt. I wrote 30 pages of this, as Bilbo, plus the final 6 pages as Frodo. And of course there were all the preliminary trials, and extra title pages, etc. So altogether, it was quite a lot of work. Having read The Hobbit (and LOTR, and The Silmarillion) innumerable times since my teens, I sat down with it once more and then wrote as I thought Bilbo would have, making special mention of food, and the wonderful beer at the Prancing Pony, etc. There are many quirks, "mistakes", illustrations, additions - things like adding the names of the thirteen dwarves into the margin, as if in afterthought, on the pages describing the unexpected party. Or composing (at a later date, of course) the Troll song (which Sam sings in the book The Fellowship of the Ring) in the margins of the pages describing the troll encounter. Writing as Bilbo, I got as far as the finding of the Ring. I also composed text for the final pages of the book, but did this without seeing the film script, so my version was based on The Scouring of the Shire. Peter and Fran realised they needed to provide me with text to match the film, so Fran then composed - and I wrote - the last couple of pages, which tell of the fates of the other members of The Fellowship, as in the voiceover in the movie. I then wrote a few more pages to precede this, and the job was done. I've always wanted to finish writing Bilbo's journal someday. Maybe that day will eventuate after all.... My question: > I noticed you designed the Elven telescope. Where there other things you > designed for the movie beyond the calligraphy pieces? Daniel: There were a couple of other things for Rivendell, which I designed along the telescope, all in the same week. There was the Sceptre of Annuminas, which was made, and the Calendar of Imladris, which wasn't. This was an intricate 3-dimensional calendar, like a tree, from which all the days of the year hung like glittering leaves, and dropped, one by one, to the "floor" of the structure, bordering which was a kind of freize depicting the appropriate constellations for that time of year. It was very cool, but we ran out of time to make it. The telescope was really neat, too, and would have worked in reality, with the sliding middle lens. The guy who built it to my design realised this, and made sure the equatorial mount could move, etc, so that Elrond could track the movements of the heavens. And because Middle Earth would have had no light pollution, I left the lens system free of an enclosing barrel - much more elegant and elvish that way! My Question: > Would you, or have you, considered bringing out a publication of the > work that you did for The Lord Of The Rings? Daniel: I've definitely considered this, and I approached Harper Collins (Houghton Mifflin) about it. But there had been a quota for movie-related LOTR books agreed upon between New Line, Harper Collins and Tolkien Estate, and that quota had already been filled. But the door has never been completely shut. In the event that The Hobbit was filmed, for example, discussions could resume... And now, years later, guess what! Or there has been the possibility of a general "The Art of Daniel Reeve" book. So, we shall see what we shall see... - I'm hopeful.... My question: > Regarding your writing material: > Did you make any of your own scribing tools? ... your own nibs, or did you > use commercial nibs and inks. Daniel: I cut and used numerous quills, as well as some commercial nibs. For some of the papers we were using, the quill turned out to be the best way of getting ink onto it, and it has since become one of my main tools of the trade. It gives such a lovely, uneven line! Lots of character. I used commercial inks though. You have to be pretty practical in the movie business, to keep up with schedules and stay within budgets. There are people who are experts at making inks and paints, and there are people who are experts at making paper. I'd like to try doing these things at some time, but for now I have so much to do, that I'll concentrate on my own area of expertise, and for inks and paints I'll rely on those who do it best. ************************************************************************************ This is the last of the questions posed for Daniel for the thread, and he has been gracious and kind enough to answer every single one of them for us .. Thats a Champion indeed! Thankyou so much Daniel Reeve for the insights into your art!! ************************************************************************************ Cheers Elven x Amy Winehouse acquires Shire retreat for Summer ... Amy Winehouse sells Shire retreat in Autumn ... Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Arwen's daughter Half-elven Feb 11 2008, 9:56pm Views: 2378 A random piece of parchment! I wasn't really sure where to put this, but apparently Propstore.com sold at one time a random parchment from the Minas Tirith library. They still have a picture of it here: http://www.propstore.com/...rchive-Parchment.htm and the listing for it. I love it because I love sloppy caligraphy! There's something so human about it. And this was a piece that never got screen time, it was just in some random pile. If you've never played around on Propstore, they sell pieces from various movies, including props and costumes that were screen used. They only have a few LOTR items, including a floor tile from Minas Tirith! I wish I had $500 to spend. My LiveJournal My Costuming Site February's Screencap of the Day Schedule

Peredhil lover Valinor Feb 11 2008, 11:26pm Views: 2356 Daniel is great! He took a lot of time to answer your questions, though he's so busy - that's great! (And thank you for having the courage to ask him in the first place and for posting his answers!) Ah, to have the whole Red Book - in calligraphy! What a dream! It would be such a treasure! The calendar sounds intriguing. Maybe they could put it into the Hobbit - I'd like to see it! And Daniel is considering the book we so want! Yay! To have a quota on the numbers of books was not the best idea they ever had But now, with the Hobbit at the horizon, I hope his one will be the first one allowed for the next round! Hm, just wondering if this quota is the reason Brian Sibley never wrote the announced third book I so wanted ... I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 11 2008, 11:51pm Views: 2354 WEAVER!!! You're back! I was about to ask if anyone had heard from you. How is everything going? Props has been a rather large subject because there is so much to talk about and I am just skimming the surface. But what is really exciting is what Elven has been doing in the Daniel Reeve thread with her e-mail correspondence with Daniel. It has been just amazing and Daniel Reeve has been so kind. Glad you're back, Weaver!

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 11 2008, 11:55pm Views: 2365 I was really surprised... when I was looking for information on 3D printers and found an article about Weta. It makes me wonder just what kind of high tech things are they into.

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 11 2008, 11:57pm Views: 2368 I have got to... print this out and come back later. There is so much here! This is absolutely terrific, Elven! I'll be back after I have had time to digest this some.

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 12 2008, 12:00am Views: 2396 The Frodo Franchise... wasn't anything like I thought it would be. I think that you will like it, at least I hope so. But I would like to hear what you think of it either way. There is no question about Alan Lee's Sketchbook; you will love it. I'm looking forward to hearing what you think about both books.

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 12 2008, 12:03am Views: 2355 Cool! That looks like a really neat place. I wish I had $500 to spend, also. I wonder how they come by that stuff. I am going to have to check it out more and see what other kinds of things they have. Thanks for the links.

Peredhil lover Valinor Feb 12 2008, 12:12am Views: 2370 It may take a bit I doubt I'll get the books before next week; to get English books takes a bit more time than German ones around here. And I don't know how long I will need to read it, but I'll let you know what I think. It's only fair, as you're the one who convinced me finally it's interesting enough to purchase I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 12 2008, 12:16am Views: 2376 That's O.K.... I can wait!

Earl Forum Admin / Moderator Feb 12 2008, 7:01am Views: 2375 My Maps I could not get good enough pics of The Shire map, somehow the lighting just didn't come right. I'll do so again and post the pics soon. In the meantime, here are pics of my Middle-earth map. I have no idea how to add these pics into the post and I’m afraid I’ll end up messing up the thread with the size and dimensions since the resolution is high enough that you can zoom in and look at the details. Also, I’m not sure whether the resolution will have to be lowered for them to be included in this post, it might mean you won't be able to zoom in. Well, if any of the admins think its fine and can replace the links with the images, that'll be okay. Small scale map of Middle-earth: http://thehouseofeorl.googlepages.com/ME.jpg Detail of North-West Middle-earth: http://thehouseofeorl.googlepages.com/MENorthWest.jpg Detail of North Middle-earth: http://thehouseofeorl.googlepages.com/MENorth.jpg Detail of North-East Middle-earth: http://thehouseofeorl.googlepages.com/MENorthEast.jpg Detail of West Middle-earth: http://thehouseofeorl.googlepages.com/MEWest.jpg Detail of Central Middle-earth: http://thehouseofeorl.googlepages.com/MECentral.jpg Detail of East Middle-earth: http://thehouseofeorl.googlepages.com/MEEast.jpg Detail of South-West Middle-earth: http://thehouseofeorl.googlepages.com/MESouthWest.jpg Detail of South Middle-earth: http://thehouseofeorl.googlepages.com/MESouth.jpg Detail of South-East Middle-earth: http://thehouseofeorl.googlepages.com/MESouthEast.jpg

Earl Forum Admin / Moderator Feb 12 2008, 7:22am Views: 2349 I just missed the edit time window. Sorry for the extra post. What I was adding were a few tech specs regarding the maps (for what they're worth). The maps consists of 9 A4 size sheets (in landscape) glued together. I worked on the 9 parts separately and then glued them together. I began with the North-west and worked my way from there. The entire map (except the writing, the forests, and the little towers) was done in pencil and then done over in pen. I used a kind of black ink that did not smudge since I had to erase the entire pencilling after the ink dried (and also I was afraid that an accidental drop of water might ruin the map). The entire project took around 3 months or so. My intent was to hang it up on my bedroom wall, but when I showed it off to my family, they all started pawing it and I got all jittery and cringey as they poked and prodded so I decided otherwise, and now its just rolled and kept safely in my LOTR cabinet. They didn't mean any harm but were just curious. I'd been locking myself in my bedroom for the longest time and they wanted to know what was going on. It took that long since (in addition to the complexity), I share my bedroom with my big brother and it's hard to find "alone time" while being in an "LOTR-mood".

Peredhil lover Valinor Feb 12 2008, 7:44am Views: 2364 Great work, Earl! Have to have a closer look later, because I'm at work - but I had a quick look at some. Very well done! And even the script seems so fitting! That truly had to be a lot of work - a pity you don't dare to put it on the wall. But it's understandable why ;-( I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

Elven Valinor Feb 12 2008, 11:07am Views: 2346 Awesome Earl!! They are beautiful! and very clear to read! Map drawing is such a great pleasure ... I and love looking at maps as well! Yours were a pleasure to view! Thankyou for putting them up for us to see! Just to let you know ... in case it hasnt been mentioned and it effects people who come to your website ... There was a probelm viewing Details of West Middle-earth - I got a 404 error on it Cheers Earl Elven Amy Winehouse acquires Shire retreat for Summer ... Amy Winehouse sells Shire retreat in Autumn ... Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 12 2008, 11:18am Views: 4010 Where to begin? Thirty plus pages of the Red Book -- that is a lot of calligraphy. Wouldn't you love to sit down with that and go through it page by page, reading the text, looking at the illustrations, lingering on all of the little quirks and "mistakes" and things in the margins? Can you imagine? What better way to be transported to Middle-Earth? I wonder how long this all took. I also wonder if the original final pages based on The Scouring of the Shire still exist. I would love to read both versions. "I've always wanted to finish writing Bilbo's Journal someday." Now that got my attention. Did the Sceptre of Annuminas show up in the movies? I would love to see the design for the Calendar of Imladris. I said that if I could have only one prop from the movies, I would want the map of The Lonely Mountain. But it was extremely difficult trying to decide between that and the Elven telescope. That telescope is so cool! I used to be president of the local astronomy club and I just fell in love with that telescope. And so we come to the book. What a terrible shame that the quota had been filled. Just think what we could have had. But he said that the door has never been completely shut. He said that he's hopeful. That sounds encouraging! "Or there has been the possibility of a general 'The Art of Daniel Reeve' book." Hey, I could live with that. In fact, have you seen his paintings? We have been concentrating on his calligraphy and maps, but his paintings are fantastic, too. While we're at it, let's have two books. Nibs and quills -- l little more technical stuff. You know, I love the technical stuff. Well, I think that I need a bit of a sit down and a cup of tea after all of that. I just can't thank Daniel Reeve enough for taking the time to do this. And a great big thanks to you, Elven, this could not have worked out better. I wonder if everyone on TORn knows what you have here.

Earl Forum Admin / Moderator Feb 12 2008, 11:27am Views: 4008 Thanks Peredhil Lover and Elven. Glad you appreciate the map. By the way, I've uploaded the Details of West Middle-earth again (the file was initially uploaded with a different name). Sorry about that.

Arwen's daughter Half-elven Feb 12 2008, 9:01pm Views: 4049 I once saw a Star Trek props warehouse Not in person, you understand, but on a documentary talking about an auction held by Christie's of the costumes & props from the movies and series. They needed someone to tell them what was worth selling and how high to start the bidding and so released two fans into the warehouse with the rest of the auction team. I'm no Trekkie, but I would have loved a chance like that! And it was very much like Raiders of the Lost Ark, with boxes and boxes just waiting to be opened. I hope that somewhere the LOTR props and costumes are as well stored. Perhaps every ticket you buy for The Hobbit should enter you into a drawing for an hour or two in the LOTR warehouse! My LiveJournal My Costuming Site February's Screencap of the Day Schedule

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 12 2008, 11:05pm Views: 4008 That's terrific! Impressive, most impressive! And I love the lettering. Thanks, Earl.

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 12 2008, 11:20pm Views: 4036 ...an hour or two in the LOTR warehouse. I could live with that. I wonder if you could buy those movie tickets in blocks!

grammaboodawg Immortal Feb 13 2008, 12:10am Views: 4045 Oh geez... my favourite prop? Right away I have to say Frodo's Shire Cloak... but the old, battered map of the Lonely Mountain is definitely right up there. It's brilliant, but the cloak has always been a favourite of mine; even moreso since I saw it at the LotR Exhibition. It's magical! What always impresses me with the props is how each piece is unique and so much thought was put into considering the history each piece would hold. With the massive amount of work ahead of the creators for getting the props ready, they were careful to treat each item with an awareness of how and who would use it. This care shows. Astounding! Brilliant! I'd heard that the lamps were ordered at the last minute, but to see the process of how they conquered this task is so indicitive of the "can do" attitude of everyone in these films! I mean, my gosh... from chain saws to detailed knife work on those amazing sculptures just makes me shake my head. If I could grow apples like that... *sigh* Trust him... The Hobbit is coming! "Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..." TORn's Observations Lists

grammaboodawg Immortal Feb 13 2008, 12:58am Views: 4020 This lovely man has really become the poster child of talent and grace for these films, imho. For me anyway. The stress he must have had when he tried to work during the day and meet the needs for the films! To give up his "safe" job to pursue this dream must have had its moment, fersher. When I had the opportunity to talk with him during the autographs at ORC, I was so surprised at his calmness and ease of just having a chat right there around hundreds of people waiting in the line. What a great guy :) Trust him... The Hobbit is coming! "Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..." TORn's Observations Lists

Peredhil lover Valinor Feb 13 2008, 5:56am Views: 4019 Only one or two? My friend had to wait two and a half hour before finally managing to drag me out of the movie exhibit in Potsdam - and that was the second time I was there, after London. And in the warehouse would be so much more to find, I suppose I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

Elven Valinor Feb 13 2008, 11:36am Views: 4018 I want a Calander of Imladris! to sit in the middle of my living room so I can watch the leaves falls into place - just amazing!! Quote Daniel: The Red Book, without doubt. I wrote 30 pages of this, as Bilbo, plus the final 6 pages as Frodo. And of course there were all the preliminary trials, and extra title pages, etc. So altogether, it was quite a lot of work. Having read The Hobbit (and LOTR, and The Silmarillion) innumerable times since my teens, I sat down with it once more and then wrote as I thought Bilbo would have, making special mention of food, and the wonderful beer at the Prancing Pony, etc. There are many quirks, "mistakes", illustrations, additions - things like adding the names of the thirteen dwarves into the margin, as if in afterthought, on the pages describing the unexpected party. Or composing (at a later date, of course) the Troll song (which Sam sings in the book The Fellowship of the Ring) in the margins of the pages describing the troll encounter. Writing as Bilbo, I got as far as the finding of the Ring. I also composed text for the final pages of the book, but did this without seeing the film script, so my version was based on The Scouring of the Shire. Peter and Fran realised they needed to provide me with text to match the film, so Fran then composed - and I wrote - the last couple of pages, which tell of the fates of the other members of The Fellowship, as in the voiceover in the movie. I then wrote a few more pages to precede this, and the job was done. I've always wanted to finish writing Bilbo's journal someday. Maybe that day will eventuate after all.... 30 pages of any book is alot to write ... especially the preparation and then doing the final article ... I can imagine why the red book was the longest in the process ... its an amazing achievement .. and also writing 'as' Bilbo! putting things in margins ... I think doing it this way sounds very Tolkien/Bilbo-ish ... What a lovely story in the way the book was completed ... there would be so much satisfaction in finally finishing what Peter and Fran wanted, and the book such a loved and well known part of the story ... and Im sure you are about to get started on that journal, now with the story that the Hobbit maybe around the corner! It might just be needed! Great work Daniel! Quote My question: > I noticed you designed the Elven telescope. Where there other things you > designed for the movie beyond the calligraphy pieces? Daniel: There were a couple of other things for Rivendell, which I designed along the telescope, all in the same week. There was the Sceptre of Annuminas, which was made, and the Calendar of Imladris, which wasn't. This was an intricate 3-dimensional calendar, like a tree, from which all the days of the year hung like glittering leaves, and dropped, one by one, to the "floor" of the structure, bordering which was a kind of freize depicting the appropriate constellations for that time of year. It was very cool, but we ran out of time to make it. The telescope was really neat, too, and would have worked in reality, with the sliding middle lens. The guy who built it to my design realised this, and made sure the equatorial mount could move, etc, so that Elrond could track the movements of the heavens. And because Middle Earth would have had no light pollution, I left the lens system free of an enclosing barrel - much more elegant and elvish that way! Im gobsmacked! I would have loved to have seen a version of the calendar Daniel describes! What a piece that would have been! It certainly 'works' for me, the leaves falling and aligning with the constellations of the time ... thats an amazing concept! The telescope looks amazing too! ... so simple and elegant! I love calidascopes (sp?) .... maybe Bilbo will come across one next when he's in Rivendell ... Quote My Question: > Would you, or have you, considered bringing out a publication of the > work that you did for The Lord Of The Rings? Daniel: I've definitely considered this, and I approached Harper Collins (Houghton Mifflin) about it. But there had been a quota for movie-related LOTR books agreed upon between New Line, Harper Collins and Tolkien Estate, and that quota had already been filled. But the door has never been completely shut. In the event that The Hobbit was filmed, for example, discussions could resume... And now, years later, guess what! Or there has been the possibility of a general "The Art of Daniel Reeve" book. So, we shall see what we shall see... - I'm hopeful.... Daniel if you are reading this - we's wants one!! ... and for us all here, it should be one of the first things on the publishing list if that other movie comes about ! I really hope this turns out to be a reality - it would be lovely - and something really special for calligraphy buffs (even if they didnt see the movie - Im sure theres probably one or two somewhere) ... its not often the scribe is showcased, and I think with all the work you did, and bringing the art back in the movie, added so much authenticity to it. Crossing fingers for a publication ... I was dissapointed in my Art Of The Lord Of The Rings Book ... that your work wasnt it there .. so I think you deserve one of your own. Quote My question: > Regarding your writing material: > Did you make any of your own scribing tools? ... your own nibs, or did you > use commercial nibs and inks. Daniel: I cut and used numerous quills, as well as some commercial nibs. For some of the papers we were using, the quill turned out to be the best way of getting ink onto it, and it has since become one of my main tools of the trade. It gives such a lovely, uneven line! Lots of character. I used commercial inks though. You have to be pretty practical in the movie business, to keep up with schedules and stay within budgets. There are people who are experts at making inks and paints, and there are people who are experts at making paper. I'd like to try doing these things at some time, but for now I have so much to do, that I'll concentrate on my own area of expertise, and for inks and paints I'll rely on those who do it best. Its so nice to see the quill return ... what a great writing tool in general! ... I have become a little more aware now when I see a feather, of how I could use it to write withm what sort of thickness I would get in the writing, how much ink they might hold .. if they'd be any good ... Im was so suprised to see how different a single feather from one bird id to another, when you think about writing with it ... I have a Bilbo feather but have not made it into a quill yet ... not until I can get another one in case I stuff it up ... For those who have been following the Daniel Reeves thread, just to let you know, I will email him and thank him for giving us a great discussion this week ... and thankyou to everyone who has joined in and read about Daniels work, and OhioHobbit for giving us the chance to discuss it! Cheers Elven Amy Winehouse acquires Shire retreat for Summer ... Amy Winehouse sells Shire retreat in Autumn ... Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Peredhil lover Valinor Feb 13 2008, 1:13pm Views: 4029 Oh yes Please thank him very much for this insight in his work! And tell him, if there's ever any discussion if a book about his LotR work should be published, he should direct everyone here to see how much we want it! My thanks to OhioHobbit and you, too, for a wonderful and very interesting discussion! I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

Elven Valinor Feb 13 2008, 3:03pm Views: 4006 Great thoughts! Mwaha - we have almost opened with the same line LOL!! I thought the same thing - lots of work in the Red Book, and yes, wouldnt it be cool to sit down and read it ... I hope if ever there is a book, that these pages could be included. A nice fold out or addition print in the back of the book of the page that Gandalf read in the Archives of Minas Tirith would be a nice inclusion as well ... Bilbo's Map, as far as I can remember, was given to Elijah Wood as a parting present from the movies ... I keep wondering if Peter will ask if he could borrow it back for the Hobbit ... it will be onw thing that people will surely recognize every deatil about from FOTR. Im sure Elijah wouldnt mind I will pass on your suggestion of 2 books ... Thats a great idea! and Thankyou for your comments - and for providing the place where things like this can come about! Cheers Elven Amy Winehouse acquires Shire retreat for Summer ... Amy Winehouse sells Shire retreat in Autumn ... Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Elven Valinor Feb 13 2008, 3:18pm Views: 4010 A perfect place to put this! Thats so interesting! I kept looking at the parchment trying to place the font, as to me, it looks familiar, but I wondered if Daniel had done this? There's something about the way its designed and outlayed, and the way the letters are what I call 'over-scrolled' ... maybe I should ask him ... but hey ... Id accept a hand written lunch order .. A very interesting site! Cheers Elven Amy Winehouse acquires Shire retreat for Summer ... Amy Winehouse sells Shire retreat in Autumn ... Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

Elven Valinor Feb 13 2008, 3:22pm Views: 4000 Thankyou gramma ... Im sure you're exactly right - the pressure to get the job done, but we got the best for the movies - and we have been well rewarded with Daniels talent and approach to things that mean so much to us! You said it wonderfully - thankyou! Cheers Elven x Amy Winehouse acquires Shire retreat for Summer ... Amy Winehouse sells Shire retreat in Autumn ... Tolkien was a Capricorn! The Hobbit!! Its a Happening Thing!! Russell Crowe for Beorn Sauruman: "Do know how the fan girls/boys first came into being? ... they were Tolkien scholars once ... Taken by the Dark Director, tempted to hold moots & dress up like Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves and Wizards ... A ruined & terrible form of life, not to mentions bad grades ... and now perfected at TORN ... Whom do you serve!"

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 13 2008, 6:31pm Views: 4000 I know what you mean. Alcarcalime and I went to a LOTR exhibit in Indianapolis, Indiana, and I just wanted to camp out in the exhibit. I couldn’t stand in front of any one thing too long because other people wanted to see, also, so I just kept going round and round, even when I went back the second time.

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 13 2008, 6:32pm Views: 3992 Well said gramma. //

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 13 2008, 6:33pm Views: 3997 No hesitation at all! You know what you want! I saw that at the Indianapolis Exhibition also and I must admit that it is pretty cool.

Peredhil lover Valinor Feb 14 2008, 7:35am Views: 3994 Just wondering Does the whole exhibit count as a prop? It would solve a rather big dilemma what to chose as a favourite prop! I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

OhioHobbit Gondor Feb 14 2008, 10:56am Views: 3990 If you think of the movies... as exhibits, then you can think of the exhibit as a prop! Hmmm, now I have all kinds of decorating ideas going through my head.

grammaboodawg Immortal Feb 14 2008, 3:32pm Views: 3998 *shiver* I've been reading through all of your posts on Daniel's work again, and once again... I'm tearing up. This is fantastic, Elven! omg.. Gracious... that wonderful man is that. Trust him... The Hobbit is coming! "Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..." TORn's Observations Lists

grammaboodawg Immortal Feb 14 2008, 3:40pm Views: 3990 FOUR!!! Please *twitch* //   Trust him... The Hobbit is coming! "Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..." TORn's Observations Lists

Urambo Tauro Rivendell Feb 16 2008, 9:16pm Views: 4337 Re: Dan Reeve's Answers - The Sceptre of Annuminas? In Reply To My question: > I noticed you designed the Elven telescope. Where there other things you > designed for the movie beyond the calligraphy pieces? Daniel: There were a couple of other things for Rivendell, which I designed along the telescope, all in the same week. There was the Sceptre of Annuminas, which was made, and the Calendar of Imladris, which wasn't. This was an intricate 3-dimensional calendar, like a tree, from which all the days of the year hung like glittering leaves, and dropped, one by one, to the "floor" of the structure, bordering which was a kind of freize depicting the appropriate constellations for that time of year. It was very cool, but we ran out of time to make it. The telescope was really neat, too, and would have worked in reality, with the sliding middle lens. The guy who built it to my design realised this, and made sure the equatorial mount could move, etc, so that Elrond could track the movements of the heavens. And because Middle Earth would have had no light pollution, I left the lens system free of an enclosing barrel - much more elegant and elvish that way! Is there anywhere a picture of the Sceptre of Annuminas? Can it be seen in the film, in the background or something? All this time I thought It was left out completely.... Now that I know it was actually made-- how/where can I see it? And, this may be a shot in the dark-- Since the sceptre was made, does the Elessar also exist? Again, I thought it was left out completely, but it's worth a shot. Was it made? I have seen an illustration of it by John Howe, but I'm not sure if it is related to the film. There really aren't many artist's renderings of the Elessar out there. (This post was edited by Urambo Tauro on Feb 16 2008, 9:21pm)