The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Thranduil Appreciation Thread Part III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 12 2014, 2:14am


Views: 50771
     The Thranduil Appreciation Thread Part III

Thread II got locked!

So here's the start of the new thread.


Continuing the fine discussion from:
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread


Caught off-guard at how much you've missed? 1 simple click will ensure you won't miss another update again. Put this thread on watch! Locate the "Watch this thread" button to the top and right of this post (button 3 of the 5 threads buttons you see) and click it).

All set? Let's get started!

Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 12 2014, 2:29am)
Attachments: ThreadIII.jpg (36.1 KB)


elf-lady
Rivendell

Apr 12 2014, 2:29am


Views: 17823
     Wow, we're up to part III now! Woohoo Thranduil!!!

Thanks for starting the new thread Lurker. Also love your icon (Pusheen love!)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 12 2014, 2:37am


Views: 17777
     Thanks! Just that I'm not patient

and I couldn't wait for a founding member to get it goingBlush

Yay Pusheenduil! Can I take it you're a fellow cat minion?

Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------

Thranduil Appreciation thread III

Thranduil Appreciation thread II

Thranduil Appreciation thread



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 12 2014, 2:40am)


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 12 2014, 2:43am


Views: 17783
     Yay!

I was trying to figure out what I'd done wrong to get locked out of the last thread. :p Thank you for starting a new one.

And it looks like the extras for the DoS release have already hit youtube. You'll like this one (a different view of the Orc interrogation): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwTOtaE5ap4

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


VeArkenstone
Lorien

Apr 12 2014, 2:53am


Views: 17860
     Wow, Lee Pace's King Thranduil is amazing! I thought it was just me.

The perfect combination of arrogance, paranoia, gorgeousness. I love the Dwarves, but the Elfs stole the show in this one. Tauriel and Kili's relationship was believable and there was something beautiful about it.


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 12 2014, 3:24am


Views: 17882
     Thranduil speaking Elvish (The Right Linkie This Time! For Eruvandi and Vanima)

Sorry about the broken link (was working when I tried it), I found one that is working (right now): Click here.

At 3.00 we see the greenscreen bit where Thranduil's in his cape/robe, and is striding purposefully into frame with a line of armoured Elves on his left, and Legolas comes into frame and he talks. This vid has the audio for that bit and Thranduil is definitely spouting Elvish Heart


Also, before that, at 2.31, he's also giving orders in Elvish as he sheathes that gorgeous sword post orc-decapitation, definitely not what we got in the movie.


And interspaced here and there you hear the 5/6 words he shouts at Tauriel to cease, desist and be dismissed.

One observation: You can hear the dialogue of the scenes as they're filming, and it's interesting that Thranduil often does not sound like what he did in the movie. Still glorious though. Wonder if it's ADR or just tons of different versions Lee was giving to PJ.


Either way, I can sit there all day and watch all the outtakes and whatever's on the cutting floor. Smile



Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 12 2014, 3:44am


Views: 17788
     On dismissing grunts in Elvish whilst in the midst of matters of state

(In reply to this post of yours in Thread II)


Interesting. I think that lapsing back into Elvish at such moments also is more effective at getting the message across, since it's directed specifically at another Elf. Maybe there's also a sense of unity/pride to not let the orc understand it was a really curt dismissal of an Elf? Plus if the orc can spout his home dialect, maybe Thranduil just want to show him 2 can play at the same game and at the same time show he is in control. The orc riles up an Elf in front of the King, goading her to the point she is in process of killing him, but the King shows him exactly how things are beyond him, but completely within the King's grasp because he can stop her with 1 word even mid-kill. Intimidation by exclusive intimation? (I do feel left out and just a bit insecure when I'm among people who are talking in a language I don't understand. Even when they're colleagues who are just talking through stuff so they can tell me their conclusions in English. Actually, particularly when they're not conversing in English and I'm the only one who is clueless. Its maddening and even though you know its not a deliberate thing, and they jsut feel more comfortable and confident to thrash things in the native tongue among themselves)

I'd also go with option 3, filmmaker's choice please.


Quote
Yes, he did. And yet otherwise, during the interrogation scene, no Elvish. So, do Orcs not understand Elvish and Thranduil didn't want it to know what he was saying to her (exactly)? Or, was Thranduil just getting a bit emotional, causing a switch to Elvish? Or do the filmmakers just have the characters switch to Elvish occationally to remind us it's what they're actually speaking all the time? (As odd as that possibility sounds.)

I want to say it's the 'emotional' choice. Because Thranduil does not use Elvish at all when he speaks to Tauriel about Legolas's attraction, and I get the feeling that it was a very calculated confrontation - for him. Then it would make sense for him to spew lot of Elvish in the missing scene of his confrontation with Legolas, who probably tells dad he's off after Tauriel (obviously the last thing Thranduil would want to hear).



Yeah... agreed. Though I find it just a bit strange to switch and switch again. Was expecting a segue to minimise the subtitle reading... but to then segue back... but well, Elvish is lovely to hear, so I'm not complaining.

Quote
And then we get the difference of opinion scene between Legolas and Tauriel, in which they switch from Whatever English Is A Stand In For to Elvish and back again. Some feeling is being exchanged, I think.



That's a gripe of mine - what was that about? Unless it was to show how business is conducted in the usual Elf border protection day. But then why not more of Thranduil's Elvish?

Quote
Of course, there's still that short scene between Legolas and the door guard, all in Elvish. So, unless that Elf is a very good friend or a relative, my 'emotional' theory falls flat. :/



Fixed! see my previous post Smile

Quote
(Darn, I can't see that vid either. :p )



Also: Thanks, but that vid's not new though.


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 12 2014, 3:54am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 12 2014, 3:46am


Views: 17784
     Welcome!

:D nice to see another newbie signing


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 12 2014, 4:04am


Views: 17729
     Sorry

The first I'd seen of that bit was watching my new DoS disks the other night. And I'd seen/heard all the various parts of the new vid you linked (Thank you!) except for the audio of the scene you were pointing out. That was definitely Thranduil!Elvish. XD (That Nov/Dec EE release feels very far away right now.)

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Apr 12 2014, 4:16am


Views: 17742
     An admin request:

Please, when you're posting images of His Sassiness, be sure to first resize them so that they meet our image guidelines from TORN 201 (posted below). We don't like removing images because they're oversized, but we will if we have to.

Here are the details:
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Thanks, all.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 12 2014, 4:38am


Views: 17859
     Character, Set Design, Costume and other behind the scene thoughts from assorted interviews

Since we're basically twiddling thumbs waiting for new stuff, how about some research and analysis? Sly

I found some interviews on characters, design and so on here. Lifting the Thranduil bits for your reading , click on the title to go to the original article (sorry if they're old hat, I don't recall seeing any of it in this forum):

THE HOBBIT: THE DESOLATION OF SMAUG DAN HENNAH (Production Design) Q&A
"QUESTION: What was your approach to designing Mirkwood?

DAN HENNAH: We really bought into it the fact that these Dwarves get into Mirkwood and become quite disoriented. We attributed this to the spores from the fungi that grows on the trees there. Pretty much everywhere you look, there is some form of fungus, and these fungi are giving off narcotic spores that the Dwarves are breathing in.

The idea was that we would take the audience into this sort of psychedelic place, so we used a lot of color. Big, old trees with lots of gnarly arms and fungi growing on them, and then on top of that, a lot of color—to the point where, when you walked on the set, the colors were much more garish than they’ll ever appear on the film because of the 48fps effect and the 3D. But the idea was to make it psychedelic and it certainly felt that way walking around in it.

The Spiders in Mirkwood are a mostly digital element, but we had to build some real elements like webs and create an environment in which these Spiders could live without brushing up against foliage and giving themselves away.

QUESTION: What was your approach to creating the Woodland Realm, the domain of Thranduil and the Elves?

DAN HENNAH: Thranduil’s environment is inside a mountain, inside a cave. We seem to have quite a few cave environments in these films. [Laughs]

The Wood-elves come from the forest, and they found a really safe place that they could defend inside this mountain. In the very early days, they found a huge limestone cave system, and they’ve brought the forest in with them. They’ve carved images inside this cave system that they relate to the forest, so all the pillars have become tree trunks. As they’ve developed this underground realm, they’ve decorated it in a way that reminds them of the forest from which they come, and the forest that they are still protecting.

Also, being a cave system inside a mountain, it’s a three-dimensional cave system, not just a flat-bottomed cave. It has ravines and caves below and caves above; walkways and big limestone bridges that run through the middle of it; and lots of huge tree roots that run down into the cave system to pick up water from the rivers that run underneath it. Thranduil’s cave is very complex, and very stylized. It’s very reminiscent of the art nouveau elements we used at Rivendell, but in a much more confined environment.

QUESTION: And this cave system is the setting for the barrel chase that ensues when the Dwarves make their escape?

DAN HENNAH: Right. The Elves buy a lot of apples and wine and various things in barrels from Lake-town or traders passing through. They send the empty barrels back to Lake-town through their system of flumes and channels that they have cut into the hillside and connected to tributaries of rivers. The barrels float, and when they put them in these channels of water, they make their way back down to the river, which feeds them into the Long Lake, where Lake-town was built. So, every few days, they recycle their packaging, so to speak. In the story, we discover this is happening and then Bilbo uses it to help the Dwarves escape."

THE HOBBIT: THE DESOLATION OF SMAUG JOE LETTERI (Senior Visual Effects Supervisor) Q&A

QUESTION: How did the sequence with the Spiders come together, and what were the challenges you faced in bringing it to life?

JOE LETTERI: The Spiders were really Interesting because we were trying play with them spatially. Everything that happens with them takes place up in the canopy of the forest, in the treetops. That was Peter [Jackson]’s idea. These Spiders are moving from branch to branch, from limb to limb, using webs to travel through the trees, and we could really play with the three dimensionality of it because everything is happening through space.

That makes it really tricky to figure out the motion, because you’re starting with nothing, in a way. So we’d choreograph the Spiders in space to get the action we wanted towards camera, and then figure out how to move trees, branches, limbs and webs around to be where their feet connected to get the proper action.

THE HOBBIT: THE DESOLATION OF SMAUG BOB BUCK (Costume Design) Q&A

QUESTION: What was your process for designing the costumes for the Mirkwood Elves, specifically Legolas, Tauriel and Thranduil?

BOB BUCK: Mirkwood is a darker place than Rivendell. Elves are long, lean and very elegant, but there’s more darkness and a sense of danger about the Mirkwood Elves.

When we were talking to Evangeline Lilly about her costume, we discussed how Tauriel is beautiful and earthy, but she’s got a sting to her. There’s a danger about her. There is also a different hierarchy in that world: you have the Silvan Elves like Tauriel, which are the lower Elves, and you have the High Elves like King Thranduil and Legolas the Prince.

We first see Legolas and Tauriel in the forest. Legolas is in his princely robes—the clothes of the court—because when he’s around the fortress, he is a young prince, and so his clothes are more befitting of a prince, rather than what we call his traveling costume, which is more of what you see in The Lord of the Rings movies. There’s definitely a casual look versus a formal look, and that was something interesting to bring into the world of Mirkwood, as opposed to Rivendell, which is more about aesthetics of a people who don’t actually venture out that much.

With Legolas, we had to keep him in the iconic colors and materials that we saw in The Lord of the Rings movies, such as the green suede. You couldn’t lose that iconic quality of Legolas

because that’s what we had established, but you could put a slightly different cut and details on it because time has passed.

With Tauriel’s costume, I used the materials from the world of the Mirkwood Elves. She’s in suede as well. The Silvan Elves have two costumes, a formal one and one for traveling. It’s not actually a formal costume; it’s more like a camouflage for when they go out into the forest. Their main job is to patrol the forest, especially as things are getting stranger with the Spiders presence. It’s autumn time, so they are able to blend in, and this gives them the element of surprise when they are on patrol. These costumes are very autumnal; there’s a very organic quality about them that helps them fit into the trees, the trunks, the branches and the leaves.

When they’re inside the fortress and traveling outside Mirkwood, they wear a traveling costume, and you see Tauriel in various stages of this. When she leaves the Realm, she dons other layers, like a traveling coat.

It’s very important to keep a simplicity and an elegance about these costumes. You definitely had to think about hair and necklines and keeping things quite refined, especially with the Elves. Refined and sharp are words for the Mirkwood Elves. There’s always a bit of a spike about the decoration, a bit of a barb. There’s a feeling of the beauty of nature, but also the danger. You need to keep things pared back and refined so that it’s more about the whole. Sometimes you’ve got to pull back to make the character shine. It’s not about the costume; you’re helping to tell the story.

With Thranduil, we established a bit of his look in the beginning of the first film. He’s got a long, lean quality, which Lee Pace inherently has, being the statuesque, wonderful man he is. He’s got such a great presence and wears clothes wonderfully. Accentuating that long, lean quality was the primary objective, and also giving him a richness and a kingly darkness. He has these big, voluptuous, draping robes that hang off him to create that sense of opulence and grandeur befitting a king. He’s also thousands of years old, so there needs to be an aged tenor, an antique quality about these clothes to show that they have been around for a long time.

It’s great when you have fittings with the actor, but then when you see it with the hair and the makeup, it all becomes one. Thranduil’s hair is so iconic and wonderfully creative, it makes him even longer. When you put that together with his garment, it’s just amazing. It makes it all work.

THE HOBBIT: THE DESOLATION OF SMAUG RICHARD TAYLOR (Armor, Weapons, Creatures and Special Makeup) Q&A

QUESTION: Can you take us through the scope of what you and Weta Workshop have been working on for the second film?

RICHARD TAYLOR: ...Specifically, we’ve got the new Elves arriving. We’ve got Tauriel; we’ve got the King of the Elves, played by Lee Pace, which is exciting; and the Wood-elves, whom we’ll see in Mirkwood Forest, which is really exciting for us, because that’s a race of characters that we love working on....

QUESTION: What do you consider your biggest challenge on this film?

RICHARD TAYLOR: Oh, there are so many fantastic new things in the second film. We’ve got the Spiders, although we haven’t made them because they’re all digital. We did concept design for them and modeled them...

... Trying to reinvigorate the Orcs and Elves, and do something dynamic and special with them has been one of the challenges for us on the second film. Designing Elves is a really interesting challenge because you don’t want them to appear apathetic and weak as a race by letting their armor get too floral or artistic. It’s very important that they as a race of people look incredibly dynamic and powerful. At the end of the day, they are trained killers. They’re assassins. Yet their armor needs to look almost Renaissance-like in its beauty, perfection and sophistication. You’ve got to find that very delicate balance where it doesn’t look like a 17th century dandy, but still gives the actors an incredible presence, power and vitality, while still looking very beautiful and ‘high art.’

That’s the line that you travel along in designing a race of characters like the Elves, but it’s a delightful line, because it’s a delightful race to be designing. You can appreciate the writing of J.R.R. Tolkien and Peter’s vision. Ultimately, getting to design a group of characters like that is nearly euphoric.

QUESTION: Can you talk about the armor and weapons you made for The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug, particularly the Elves?

RICHARD TAYLOR: We made a significant amount of new armor. Almost all of it, for the lead actors, went through a complex process of development and elimination, then more development and trying different things. We experimented quite comprehensively to give the director and the writers something special. In a way it’s just prototyping, but it’s prototyping at a heightened speed because the deadline’s galloping up on you and you’ve only got access to the actor for so long.

It’s really interesting because people would naturally perceive that a great deal of the work can be done on body doubles. We actually scan the actors and then make molds of their bodies out of polystyrene so we have exact replicas of them in our workshop in the form of polystyrene mannequins. You can’t sculpt a hero’s prosthetics on a generic actor and hope it is going to fit on the lead actor’s face correctly. It’s the same with the armor and the costume; it is imperative that you see how the lead actor carries it, and what the actor’s attitude and essence is.

In the case of Tauriel, Thranduil and Legolas, that is even more critical, because their clothing is so specific and integral to their characters. It’s a part of them. It’s like a skin. On one level you’re designing haute couture, high fashion, because it has to have that level of aesthetic appeal. It’s more about the attitude that the clothes project than it is about the actual garments themselves.

If you are robing a person in regal clothes and trying to suggest that these garments have historical antecedents back through culture and time, they can’t look like they were just made in

the moment. They have to look as though there is a history behind why this character is wearing these particular garments.

We try to weave all of these aspects together and produce something that looks special and memorable to the director and specifically the writers. In addition to Peter, Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens are very involved in costuming, especially around these types of characters. They have an unbelievably sharp eye for seeing design, fashion, beauty, aesthetic, balance and color—all these wonderfully complex elements. Your work is being vetted by arguably the best you could hope for. Ultimately, it all comes together through this amalgamation of people: the costume designers, the workshop team, and Peter, Fran, Philippa and myself.

QUESTION: Are there any specific pieces of armor, weapons or wardrobe you created for the Elves that you particularly enjoyed?

RICHARD TAYLOR: The Elves required a comprehensive round of armor and weapons design. With the weapons, one of the things that we wanted to try and play off of was the aesthetic of the forest in which they live, because most of the aesthetic of world design comes from the environment in which you live. If you look at an Italian town that has red-tiled roofs and stone brick walls, it’s because the quarries and the soils of that specific area define it. We try and bring that same ecological imprint into our own design.

In the case of Mirkwood, we looked at things like fungal growths on trees, plate funguses, the way mosses grow and the unique growth patterns that occur in wood. The problem is that if you pursue that line of thought too far, you’ll end up with a quasi-Flintstones meets bush baby look, which is no good. So you have to bring a level of Renaissance, art nouveau, very high art quality to how those graphics are symbolized in the formation of the weaponry.

As you’ll see when you watch the film, the way that Tauriel’s bow is structured—the tip of her arrow, the way the feathers are colored and even the way the shaft of the arrow has been whittled—is to look like it has an organic quality that represents the world in which she lives. As an Elven ninja, everything is at one with the world so that she can disappear into the foliage.

By contrast, the Elven Guards underneath the ground are more extravagant and flamboyant because of Thranduil’s need for grandeur, and therefore they are quite resplendent. They are not as organic as what we saw in the Rivendell Elves, but they definitely have a quality of clinical, highly efficient killers about them, and a master guard that is protecting an important Kingdom.

The auspices of their job have elevated them to this higher ranking that demand that their armor and weapons carry a signature of clinical, capable efficiency, and therefore they have a certain stature. They have a stature that is carried through their armor and their weapons, more so than anything that we’ve put on screen before in the world of Middle-earth. I’m excited to see what people think of these new races that we’ve been developing.

QUESTION: Did any of the actors have specific requests for, or give input regarding, their wardrobe and gear?

RICHARD TAYLOR: Yes, all the actors have input, which is good. One of the lovely ways in which Peter works is that he encourages comment and thought. That’s great for us, because it means that the actors feel a part of the experience and don’t feel that it’s just a fait accompli. It means that you get to interact a lot more fully.

THE HOBBIT: THE DESOLATION OF SMAUG PHILIPPA BOYENS (Screenwriter/Co-Producer) Q&A
QUESTION: Was it a lot of fun for you to bring to life the sequence with the giant Spiders in Mirkwood?

PHILIPPA BOYENS: Yes, it was. It’s one of the obstacles for the Dwarves. They’re so close to their goal and can almost see the Lonely Mountain, as Bilbo does when he climbs up the trees and gets above the canopy of the forest. They’re so close, yet they have to get through this forest and it’s not an easy thing to do.

We had a lot of fun. Peter especially had a very strong sense that, as it does in The Lord of the Rings films, the old forest has a will of its own. There’s an evil that lies upon the forest now that leads you astray. It’s a very subtle thing. Suddenly you’re lost, and you don’t know quite how you got lost. It’s very creepy. In its own way the forest, in and of itself, becomes very dangerous, which is cool. And then we discover what else is in there, which is equally dangerous … the Elves.

QUESTION: What led you to bring Legolas back into the story, and what it was like to work with Orlando Bloom again, who memorably played the role in The Lord of the Rings Trilogy?

PHILIPPA BOYENS: The decision to include Legolas in The Hobbit Trilogy, even though he doesn’t actually appear in the book, was pretty easy. Our fans would have killed us if we hadn’t. The Mirkwood is his homeland. He is Legolas Greenleaf. He’s called that for a reason, as described in The Lord of the Rings. It is because he is a Mirkwood Elf. He’s from the Woodland Realm. His father is the Elvenking Thranduil, whom we met in the first Hobbit film. So it was pretty much a no-brainer that we were going to meet Legolas if we went into Mirkwood.

It also meant we got to work with Orlando Bloom again, which is always a good thing. He hadn’t changed after ten years—not just in terms of him being such a nice guy, a friend, and easy to work with, but also because he actually looked exactly the same, for which I cannot forgive him. [Laughs] He has the most extraordinary genes. I think he must be, in fact, part Elvish because he fit in his costume from The Lord of the Rings films and still looks like he’s 23, which is the age he was when he first came to us.

QUESTION: There’s an entirely new Elf in this film, which is Tauriel, played by Evangeline Lilly. What went into creating this character and what does Evangeline bring to the role?

PHILIPPA BOYENS: The decision to include Tauriel came with a decision that we made because we very strongly felt the lack of female characters. Beyond our ability to bring Galadriel into the story, we were pretty much bereft of any other female characters in the book. And what felt most natural was that she should be an Elf.

Once we made that decision and knew that we were going to meet a Woodland Elf, a Silvan Elf, which is quite different from the High Elves of Lothlórien and Rivendell, she started to come to life on her own. She’s more earthy than Galadriel or Arwen. She is in the Royal Guard. She has a job to do, so to speak.

She’s grown up defending the borders of the Woodland Realm. She’s a very skilled fighter. She’s an Elf, so there is a wisdom about her. She’s ethereal, but she’s also more earthy. She’s actually very inexperienced with the outside world. She has very little knowledge of it. So when a Company of Dwarves and this Hobbit come crashing into her world, she’s fascinated by them. Perhaps more so than someone like Legolas or Thranduil, who have experience with the outside world.

Then we had to find the person who could play that role, and that was not easy. We felt very lucky when Evangeline said yes and said she was up for doing it. She is a Tolkien fan. She has always loved the books and loved The Lord of the Rings movies. She was very aware that this was a new character that we were creating, and she wanted to be sure that we were going to do it properly. She became part of that process. She very much wanted to make sure that it was in keeping with the spirit of the books, and in keeping with what she could bring to the character. I think she did that in a spectacular way, and she’s created such a memorable character that I will guarantee you, she’s going to be a favorite.

QUESTION: Can you tell us about Thranduil, played by Lee Pace, and what makes him different from other Elf Lords?

PHILIPPA BOYENS: Thranduil is different. He is the father of Legolas and he resides in Mirkwood, which is a pretty dangerous place. The Elves of Mirkwood are described in the book as ‘less wise and more dangerous’ than other Elves—not less wise as in stupid, but perhaps more reckless, which adds to their danger. They’re more shut off from the rest of the world.

Thranduil is a High Elf, so he is actually very similar to Galadriel and Elrond, the other Elf Lords that we meet in The Hobbit films. But he’s different. The difference being—and here’s an interesting piece of trivia—he fought in The Last Alliance, the battle that opens The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, the battle that you see Elrond fighting, when Isildur takes the Ring from Sauron. We know from the appendices of The Lord of the Rings that Thranduil was part of that. He’s very much a part of this world. But after The Last Alliance and the fall of Sauron, he didn’t leave Middle-earth, he stayed in Middle-earth and became the Elvenking, over a race of other Elves called Silvan Elves. They’re the Wood-elves of Mirkwood, which was called The Greenwood at that time.

What’s interesting about that is there is a kind hierarchy among the Elves of Mirkwood. There are the High Elves, which are Thranduil and Legolas, and then there are the more lowly, more earthy Elves, the Silvan Elves. Tauriel is a Silvan Elf. She’s very much an Elf of Middle-earth, whereas the High Elves have come from somewhere else across the seas, and they are slightly more ethereal.

Thranduil was a very hard character to cast. He’s the father of Legolas, so he’s got to be a fairly beautiful-looking Elf. We also needed the stillness, grace and sense of power that Elves possess, that sense of having lived a long time in the world, and of being separate from the other races. There’s always that distance between the Elves and the other races. Not so much with Legolas and Tauriel, because they engage with the world, but there is a sense with Elves such as Thranduil that they are separate from the goings on in the rest of the world.

When we meet him, Thranduil has already made the decision many years ago to isolate his people to protect them; to not engage with the rest of the world or the rise and fall of the fortunes of other races outside his borders. He has shut himself off. This is how he lives. To do this, he has created quite a strict, closed-off world around himself. His rule is law.

We needed to find an actor who could play this character with that sense of iciness, dispassion and ruthlessness. But we also knew that he’s not evil. He’s ultimately still good.

It was very hard to find someone who can bring all that status to the character that Thranduil requires, but yet still engage the audience, still be interesting and able to draw us into his world, how he’s thinking and what he’s feeling. He’s sympathetic in a strange way.

That was a very difficult role to cast. On the way back from England on our casting trip in 2010, we stopped in New York for one reason and one reason only, and that was to meet with Lee Pace. He was the only person we were meeting with in New York at that time. We met with him and by the time he left, we knew we’d found Thranduil.

THE HOBBIT: THE DESOLATION OF SMAUG CAST AND FILMMAKERS QA
QUESTION: Peter, I wanted to ask you about making three movies instead of two. Did that allow you to make the second chapter more action-packed and what character benefited the most from that decision?

PETER JACKSON: It’s an interesting question. I don’t think any character really benefited from that decision. We didn’t really change a lot. We made that decision after we had shot most of the film. It was a decision based on what we had shot. We just thought we were going to have to somehow cut a lot of this stuff out, or we could reshape it.

Look, what it does is it allows you to let the characters drive the story, because in a novel, the writer of the novel is often the person who narrates the story, who takes you on the journey, and Tolkien’s voice is obviously fantastic at doing that. You feel like he’s right beside you telling you a bedtime story. But in the movie, you don’t want me on screen talking about what’s happening. So, the discipline on a film is you have to have the story told through the dialog of the characters, through the actions of the characters.

We ended up wanting to explore some of the character depth that we had done on The Lord of the Rings films. I was also acutely aware that, ultimately, when this cycle of releasing a movie each year is done, you’re going to end up with six films, The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey being the beginning and The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King being the end, and I did want to have a unity. We wanted it to feel like it was the same filmmakers, basically, going through the story.

People always ask about Evangeline’s character, Tauriel, and why we felt the need to create her. But in The Hobbit novel, they are captured by the Elves and they escape in the barrels. It’s a memorable part of the book, but the Elvenking is not even named. He doesn’t have a name. And it was only later on that Tolkien decided that he should be Thranduil. He also decided that he had a son when The Lord of the Rings was written 18 or 19 years later. He created the character of the son of the King, so you’ve got material there.

But you can’t have a scene in a film that’s a memorable scene and not have just one person as the Elf. We wanted three Elven characters who were all different. That’s the thing, too, is to create characters that have conflict with each other, and have different agendas. Thranduil, Legolas and Tauriel are all on different flight paths, which makes for a much more interesting way for Philippa, Fran and I to write the narrative through their eyes.

... ... ...

PETER JACKSON: I’ve said this to Evangeline, but I have spent more time in her company when she’s wearing the wig and the ears and I look here and find it a bit strange. Because, obviously, I’m much more used to hearing her voice, looking around and seeing the red wig and the ears. That’s actually one of the strange things, because the actors walk on the set ready to shoot. And they go home at the end of the day and I’m just not used to any of this stuff, to see them as humans. [Laughs] It’s rather disturbing. [Lurker: just had to include this bit Sly]

And... the piece de resistance.

THE HOBBIT: THE DESOLATION OF SMAUG LEE PACE (Thranduil) Q&A
QUESTION: What was your reaction to landing the role of Thranduil in The Hobbit Trilogy, and had you read the novel prior to being cast?

LEE PACE: Yeah, it was a huge honor and a privilege to get asked to be a part of Peter Jackson’s Middle-earth. I was a huge fan of The Lord of the Rings movies. My dad had given me The Hobbit when I was a kid. I don’t remember how old I was, but I have a real strong memory of him putting the book in my hand. He’s from a place calledChickasha,Oklahoma, where I was born, and a Bilbo Baggins is buried in the graveyard there. When we would be walking around the graveyard, you could say, ‘Look, this is where Bilbo Baggins ended up, inChickasha,Oklahoma.’ So I remembered it from that.

And then I got The Lord of the Rings when I was in high school and I remember reading that. Since then, my memory of the book has completely been lost because of seeing The Lord of the Rings movies, and my imagination of it has been replaced by those movies. But, yeah, it was such a huge, exciting thing to get asked to be a part of.

One thing I love about being in the movies is that when a kid will come up to me and want to talk about The Hobbit, I’m like, ‘Have you read it yet?’ Because it’s such a great book for kids to read because you’re never too young to pick up that book.

QUESTION: What was the experience like for you to then travel to New Zealand and join this merry company of filmmakers and actors who have been putting this movie together?

LEE PACE: Honest, if you’ve never been toNew Zealand, you’d better run to get there because it is one of the coolest places I’ve ever been in the world. And I’ve shot some really cool places—India,China,South Africa. I had the good fortune to travel a lot with work, but nothing has been likeNew Zealand. It is such an astonishingly beautiful place. And although I shot most of my stuff on the sound stages, I got great opportunities to travel all over the country. I hiked around toLakeWaikaremoana, around theSouth Island. I hikedAbelTasmanNational Parkand the Northern Circuit around Tongariro. The country never ceases to amaze me. It makes me think of whatAmericamust have looked like before we got to be so many people here.

QUESTION: All of the Elves have a gravity to them, but particularly Thranduil. I was wondering if you could tell me about him.

LEE PACE: After working on his character for three years, I can blabber on and on and on about my boring character research. No, within these three years, there have been so many great inspirations for the character. Of course, there’s J.R.R. Tolkien and his work. And Thranduil the Elvenking was the first Elf that he wrote.

His inspirations are very, very interesting to me. I thought of Oberon, the Fisher King … How do I begin to describe it? The thing about the Elves, the thing about this Elf, Thranduil, is that he’s not like people. They’re not like people. They don’t understand things like people. They’re more like a blizzard, or a very old tree, or a bear, or a tiger. They’re wild things. ‘He was the King of the Elves on the other side of the Wild,’ that’s what Tolkien wrote. He’s an exquisite thing, but he’s wild and dangerous because of his wildness—not because he’s evil, because he’s wild. That was the thing that I found very, very interesting.

One of the first things that I was trying to figure out when I was playing the character, before I even flew down toNew Zealand, is that whereas all the other Elves go West to Valinor, he stays. He remains in Middle-earth, and Mirkwood is restored to theGreenwoodby then. But he remains. He never goes West. He never chooses that passage.

Tolkien has said that he enjoys his immortality, but I don’t even know if he enjoys it because I don’t know if he feels joy the way we understand it. It opens every way I have into a character when you think none of these rules apply, like his understanding of love is different. It’s more profound. It’s deeper. His understanding of pain is more profound. He is tough and cold at heart like a diamond. But he is also sensitive, and I don’t mean emotionally sensitive. I mean, I believe that not a leaf moves in that forest that he doesn’t feel.

QUESTION: So along comes this Company of Dwarves. How does Thranduil see their Quest and Throrin in the context of what’s happening in Middle-earth?

LEE PACE: I’ll take a step away from being the actor who plays Thranduil. I love the Dwarves. I think the story that Peter Jackson tells, that Tolkien tells about the Dwarves, is heartbreaking and beautiful—that this group of brave men go not to reclaim their money, but to make one Hail Mary pass to keep their culture alive. That’s what I think is pretty incredible.

But Thranduil looks at it differently, and I understand how he sees it. That was another big riddle that I was committed to solving—I have to be able to understand why he makes this decision. And it’s not just because he’s trying to kill the party. Look, these thirteen Dwarves come walking through the woods to go wake up a Dragon. What would you do if you had some empty dungeons down there? He stops them. He says, ‘No, kids, you’re not going any further.’ He’s 3,000 years old. He’s fought Dragons. He knows how hard they are to kill. You don’t wake them up when they’re asleep.

QUESTION: He also has the history with Thorin.

LEE PACE: He has history with Thorin’s father, Thorin’s father’s father, and Thorin’s father’s father’s father. He knows them all. And, as you remember in the prologue, there was a little bit of a look between Thranduil and Thorin’s grandfather. What that look is about is, ‘I see all this wealth you’re accumulating, and you’re going to burn. You are hoarding away a mountain of gold, and no good will come of it.’ That’s the wisdom of the Elves; that’s what they know. It’s not his business to tell the Dwarves how to run their lives, but it is his business to protect his people and to survive. That’s the obligation of the immortal.

If you’ve been given the gift of immortality, you’ve got to not be foolish with it. He doesn’t hate. It would be one thing to just be like ‘Dwarves hate Elves and Elves hate Dwarves.’ But there are real reasons why they don’t agree, and that’s one of them, this wealth thing. He’s a natural creature. He doesn’t understand wealth in that way. He doesn’t understand wanting to accumulate it. I guess that means something to the Dragon.

The work of Tolkien is so full of evocative symbols. That’s what makes this movie resonate across the globe the way it does, because it’s not about a New Yorker trying to get to the other side of town. This is about these symbols, this Hobbit on the other side of the Wild. It’s an incredibly moving story about the profound effect one good person can have amidst Kings of Elves and Dragons.

QUESTION: One last question: What was your reaction to when you first put on the ears, and the clothes, and the hairstyling? What did it feel like to look at yourself and see Thranduil?

LEE PACE: It was a little chilling, to be honest. I looked so different from myself. Obviously, I’m not going to play this Elvenking like me. No one wants to see that. But, yeah, it was very interesting. The way the character is designed—he’s beautiful, he’s exquisite. There’s something very ethereal about him. But also unforgiving and cold. We figured that out with the way he looks before I even shot a scene. We would do the costume fittings and I would be like, ‘Yeah, he takes up a lot of space this guy. He belongs on a throne.’



Costuming heaven


My word! What lovely forearm definition and size, as befitting a legendary warrior! (Source and bigger pic)


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 12 2014, 4:47am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 12 2014, 4:49am


Views: 17721
     Sorry! I had resized it and thought it fitted the size requirements already .. at least the file info says it is

Will be careful with future pics.


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Apr 12 2014, 5:00am


Views: 17745
     To clarify...

that's a general request/reminder to everyone who wants to post images, not because there's a problem. These tend to be picture-heavy threads in general and not everyone is familiar with the picture-posting guidelines, especially if they're new(ish) so we wanted to put that info in a reminder at the beginning of the thread. Just trying to bring it up before there's a problem rather than after.

Now carry on with your regularly-scheduled appreciation. Cool

Silverlode

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 12 2014, 5:03am


Views: 17738
     Phew!

Thanks much for the clarification.


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 12 2014, 5:34am


Views: 17726
     No problem!

There's so much stuff out there it's tough to know what's new anymore. Doesn't help the BR is out at this time while there's no movement in the shadowland of the PJ production news right now.

any other new discovery from the TE extras? I can't believe how long it's gonna take to get the EE though. Didn't feel so long with the LotR ones... did they? I so want to to watch DOS but I know the TE will just be gathering dust once the EE is out, and I hate waste. Patience has got to be a virtue here.


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 12 2014, 5:56am


Views: 17705
     EDIT: I mean upper arm, not forearm!

Clearly, my mind is pudding right now....


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Elarie
Grey Havens

Apr 12 2014, 1:49pm


Views: 17667
     Thanks for posting this!

Smile

Hop to it, Radagast, we've got dark powers to sleigh.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 12 2014, 3:53pm


Views: 17677
     Woohoo! Thrandy's Thralls are awesome!

I love that we're on thread III now! We rock! LaughHeart



"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 12 2014, 4:47pm


Views: 17665
     Answering your post about Elvish


Quote
"He reigned in and sent off Tauriel in Elvish during the orc interrogation."

Yes, he did. And yet otherwise, during the interrogation scene, no Elvish. So, do Orcs not understand Elvish and Thranduil didn't want it to know what he was saying to her (exactly)? Or, was Thranduil just getting a bit emotional, causing a switch to Elvish? Or do the filmmakers just have the characters switch to Elvish occationally to remind us it's what they're actually speaking all the time? (As odd as that possibility sounds.)

I want to say it's the 'emotional' choice. Because Thranduil does not use Elvish at all when he speaks to Tauriel about Legolas's attraction, and I get the feeling that it was a very calculated confrontation - for him. Then it would make sense for him to spew lot of Elvish in the missing scene of his confrontation with Legolas, who probably tells dad he's off after Tauriel (obviously the last thing Thranduil would want to hear).

And then we get the difference of opinion scene between Legolas and Tauriel, in which they switch from Whatever English Is A Stand In For to Elvish and back again. Some feeling is being exchanged, I think.

Of course, there's still that short scene between Legolas and the door guard, all in Elvish. So, unless that Elf is a very good friend or a relative, my 'emotional' theory falls flat. :/

That's an interesting question about whether or not orcs understand Elvish. Somehow I don't think they would since they seem to detest elves just as much as elves detest them and I doubt they'd have any more interest in learning/speaking elvish than the elves would in learning/speaking the black speech. Then again, Legolas knew the orc was antagonizing Tauriel when it yelled at her in black speech, but that may have had more to do with intonation than anything else. I don't think the filmmakers are suggesting that the elves are speaking elvish even when they're speaking the common speech though. I think the elves are just fluent in both languages and can switch back and forth at will.

I think you make a good point about the "emotional" choice. Elvish is their native language (another term I like for someone's native language is calling it their "heart language" because it's the language in which they would naturally think and feel in head and heartSmile), so I'd say they would probably revert to that if/when they get emotional such as when Tauriel was about to slice the orc open and Thranduil had to react quickly enough to stop her. Also a good point about the elvish in the missing scene. That would be an emotional moment and they would probably revert to their heart language at that point too.

I also agree that they switch back and forth in the "It IS our fight" scene at least in part because in is an emotional moment. I think they also switch simply because, from my personal observations anyway, people who are extremely fluent in two languages can easily switch back and forth like that without even thinking about it.

On the more technical side of things, I think the filmmakers realize that people may get tired of reading subtitles all the way through every other scene of the movie, especially the longer ones. The scenes with the orc interrogation and It IS our fight are fairly long scenes so they used both English and elvish so people wouldn't feel like they were missing the action because they were reading all the time. The scene between Legolas and the door guard was short so they may have felt like it wasn't a problem using all-elvish there. That's my theory anyways.Smile

"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United


(This post was edited by Eruvandi on Apr 12 2014, 4:50pm)


Bofur01
Lorien

Apr 12 2014, 5:37pm


Views: 17635
     I don't know why everyone thinks the Orcs speak Black Speech

In the films. They don't. They speak Orkish.


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 12 2014, 5:46pm


Views: 17637
     In The Hobbit movies, the Orcs do speak Black Speech.

If I remember rightly, we only hear the Orcs speak Westron in The Lord of the Rings movies.


Bofur01
Lorien

Apr 12 2014, 5:49pm


Views: 17649
     I'm 100% sure on this...

Having conversed with David Salo (the linguist for the LotR and the Hobbit films) about both of them via his blog. He made up a new "Orkish" language for the Hobbit films... Azog only speaks Black Speech to the Necromancer.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 12 2014, 5:53pm


Views: 17610
     Interesting! I'd never heard that before.

It's awesome that he responded to you! So, other than Azog speaking Black Speech to the Necromancer, the other orcs are all speaking orkish, huh? I learn something new everyday.Cool

"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United


Bofur01
Lorien

Apr 12 2014, 5:55pm


Views: 17623
     Yeah, it really surprised me!

And he has a few essays on the languages of Middle-Earth on his site, here: http://midgardsmal.com/blog/

They're really interesting to read :)


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 12 2014, 6:02pm


Views: 17612
     Interesting ...

Have you got a link by any chance? There's probably a section on this in the WETA Chronicles book, but I can't find anything at the moment.

Wouldn't Orkish be a form of Black Speech, as Quenya and Sindarin are to Elvish?

Smile


Bofur01
Lorien

Apr 12 2014, 6:05pm


Views: 5358
     I don't think it's a form of Black Speech, as:

"Orcs are intended to have had a fairly small vocabulary to begin with, supplementing it as needed by words from the languages of Elves, Dwarves, and Men, and also Black Speech"

And a link? Here: http://midgardsmal.com/blog/


BlackFox
Half-elven


Apr 12 2014, 6:11pm


Views: 5318
     I didn't know that either

I'm glad you cleared it up. And thanks for the link. So, who's up for some Orkish lessons? Wink


"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." - Henry David Thoreau

(This post was edited by BlackFox on Apr 12 2014, 6:12pm)


Bofur01
Lorien

Apr 12 2014, 6:21pm


Views: 5346
     Translate this!

"Khozdayin obguryash! Abgurid!"


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 12 2014, 6:28pm


Views: 5316
     Awesome! Thanks!//

 

"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 12 2014, 6:34pm


Views: 5322
     Abgurid! = Follow them!

And I only know that because I cheated and typed it in a search engine.Blush The one website that had those words in it didn't know what Khozdayin obguryash means.

http://www.elendilion.pl/2013/12/30/g-i-p-report-complete-dialogs-in-sindarin-khuzdl-orkish-and-quenya-hdos/


"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United


BlackFox
Half-elven


Apr 12 2014, 6:35pm


Views: 5324
     "The dwarves are getting away! Follow them!"? //

 


"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." - Henry David Thoreau


Bofur01
Lorien

Apr 12 2014, 6:37pm


Views: 5319
     Cheat!

But yes, Khozd is Dwarf, -ai/ayi is a plural suffix for people, and -n is a definite suffix, meaning "the"


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 12 2014, 9:59pm


Views: 5296
     That's an interesting site

I especially like:



Quote

VII.
Imrid amrad ursul!
‘Die a death of flames!’
[Khuzdűl, see here]


I wanted to know what kind of mud Thorin was slinging at Thranduil. I don't understand why they didn't give it subtitles. I assumed it was something crude.

That
is SO much better! :D

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


Bofur01
Lorien

Apr 12 2014, 10:10pm


Views: 5350
     And also, Thorin's less direct insult to Thranduil

when he was talking to Balin in the dungeons was said (by RA) to mean "I pour excrement on your head"...


elf-lady
Rivendell

Apr 12 2014, 10:23pm


Views: 5310
     Yes, I am!

And omg this thread is moving fast. I can't get online so much anymore due to heavy workload and I need to find some time to read through all the posts. Thanks for posting all those interviews. I can't wait until my DVD arrives (why it's taking so long I really don't know!). Frown


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 12 2014, 10:25pm


Views: 5321
     I really like your "heart language" concept

But it does seem like the general consensus is that it makes more sense, in what is often an action film, to use Elvish sparingly. I still think it's likely being used for emphasis as a "heart language," here and there, but considering that Legolas - Door Guard scene, and a couple of other sequences when Elvish is used mostly by Legolas or Thranduil to give orders, I wonder if it could also be required for official commands and exchanges. Then Thranduil is just Being The Elvenking when he's whipping out the Elvish to stop Tauriel from killing the Orc. :p

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 12 2014, 10:30pm


Views: 5327
     Ha! So I was right, in the wrong place.

Tongue

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 12 2014, 10:52pm


Views: 5338
     Looking just at the bit that caught me in Lee Pace's answers

I'm guessing that with this:


Quote
If you’ve been given the gift of immortality, you’ve got to not be foolish with it. He doesn’t hate. It would be one thing to just be like ‘Dwarves hate Elves and Elves hate Dwarves.’ But there are real reasons why they don’t agree, and that’s one of them, this wealth thing. He’s a natural creature. He doesn’t understand wealth in that way. He doesn’t understand wanting to accumulate it. I guess that means something to the Dragon.


Lee Pace is disagreeing with the idea that Thranduil wants to build up the kind of treasure that other Elf Lords have, and - indirectly - saying that the Elvenking's desire for the White Gems has only to do with the (quasi-religious?) association they have with starlight for him.

I know I've seen it argued that Tolkien's Thranduil is interested in accumulating wealth, but I'm guessing this means that PJ and Co. intend that he have a different bent.


"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Apr 13 2014, 3:11am


Views: 5260
     I like it too!!

It is so very hard not to spout English in my Japanese language class when we really get going.

Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 3:28am


Views: 5263
     You're welcome, Elarie.

I'm holding out for the EE, and some nerding helps take the edge off the green-eyed bit from reading about others enjoying the TE now. Tongue


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 3:44am


Views: 5266
     Oh yeah!

And thanks to the endlessly imaginative iterations of the meagre source material out there, there's always something new to appreciate.



Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 4:05am


Views: 5270
     Haha... mow that sounds more like a dwarvish insult at an Elf

Just an, admittedly pigheaded, observation: Thorin said something like: "I told him he can [expletive], him and all his kind."

So was RA speaking the insult grammatically incorrect, or is it fitting the dwarvish language syntax?


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 4:23am


Views: 5251
     That is very cool. Thanks. Bofur01!

Nice to know the kind of attention being paid to such details.


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 4:31am


Views: 5257
     I have the same problem

Hajimemashite, Rembrethil. I so get what you mean! I speak 2 languages and a couple of dialects, and thought it shouldn't be so difficult to stick with Japanese during classes, but boy was I wrong. I think the concept of trial by fire is the only way to not let the tendency to lapse back into our own language is to go on an immersion program. :P


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 4:35am


Views: 5255
     David Salo's Orcish word list for anyone interested

Link: Yrksk Orđabók


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 5:22am


Views: 5261
     Prolly taking the moral highground?

I suspect they're building Thranduil's morality around the "Long will I tarry ere I begin this war for gold" line, and thereby giving a more tangible justification to his desire for treasure than just the usual refrain that he's simply got gem-envy on his mind.

And if that is linked to Lee's inspiration from Oberon and the Fisher King ("They’re not like people. They don’t understand things like people. They’re more like a blizzard, or a very old tree, or a bear, or a tiger. They’re wild things."), the concept of the link between king and land, then Mirkwood's sickness corrupting his heart, and Lee's mention (somewhere else I think) that Thranduil is aware of what's happening but can't stop the process, then I guess it ties in to his apparent greed on the surface. Which of course then resolves itself (hopefully) in TABA when the story of the White Gems is revealed and the Necromancer cast out from Dol Guldor.

It is interesting that Thranduil does nothing else except for the tradeoff he proposed to Thorin in their faceoff to get the gems back, no waterboarding etc (which is a fortuitous bit of canon adherence imo).

Also, in the AUJ prologue sequence, he did not go ballistic and snatch that treasure box, even though he could make off with it easily enough. Rather curious given the overt significance of the gems to him. But then in reference to the "I'm patient, I can wait" line, it does suggest that he is cognizant and has enough presence of mind, despite the apparent betrayal/rejection in these 2 scenes to believe he will have the last laugh - which speaks again to the "wild things" bit.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that all the above seem like indications to the importance of those gems to him vis-a-vis the garden variety treasure, and at the same time demonstrate his greed may be different than what we see at face-value.

In TABA, we may see something like a TTT Faramir-Frodo moment ("I think at last we understand each other, Frodo Baggins") though whether Thorin is able to respond when it happens is another question. Tongue

... then again, my memory of all this is a bit dusty at the moment and I was not a very good student in Lit. class, so it could all just be random mites reaching and espousing implausible theories by proxy but I agree with youSmile



Quote
Lee Pace is disagreeing with the idea that Thranduil wants to build up the kind of treasure that other Elf Lords have, and - indirectly - saying that the Elvenking's desire for the White Gems has only to do with the (quasi-religious?) association they have with starlight for him.

I know I've seen it argued that Tolkien's Thranduil is interested in accumulating wealth, but I'm guessing this means that PJ and Co. intend that he have a different bent.


PS: Canon-wise, we don't get any insight any influence Oropher (Legolas=Leggy, Thranduil=Thrandy, Oropher=Orry?) might have on Thranduil's treasure greed, do we?


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 13 2014, 5:32am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 5:25am


Views: 5263
     Cool!

It is moving, isn't it? But so much fun. Fancy having a linguistics discourse going on in an appreciation thread. I Heart this fandom

I hope you enjoy the viewing when your DVD arrives. I'm dying for the EE!!!


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 13 2014, 5:28am


Views: 5260
     Offiicial Announcment on Thranduil's March Madness win



Just wanted to put it here for fellow thralls

TORn homepage headline: Congratulations to our 2014 Middle-earth March Madness champion: Thranduil!


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



jkm7
Bree


Apr 13 2014, 12:01pm


Views: 5259
     Thanks for posting all these interesting Interviews

and Video. There's some I didn't know yet. I love how much thought and effort Lee put into his role.

Also congrats to Thranduil, King of Sass, winner of March Madness and even beating the likes of Galadriel, Aragorn and Bilbo, not to mention his own son. Hopefully PJ and the other producers will have realized by now how popular and perfect Thranduil is and give him more screentime in the EE and in TABA.


Kerewyn
Rohan


Apr 13 2014, 12:48pm


Views: 5240
     Well, I'm back

Hi Thralls. Forgot to mention I was off to New Zealand for a couple of weeks. Yes they do have internet there, all except my sister who I stayed with, so I decided to treat it as a screen-time break.
No unexpected meeting of minor cast members at parties this time, but I did pick up Weta's Chronicles 2 and 3 'from the source', saving on postage.

And wow, a third appreciation thread! And the March Madness contest - can't believe I missed the whole thing. I have been really enjoying the discussion between you, Lurker and vanima ephel. You are able to express a level of fandom and attention to detail that swills randomly around in my head but remains difficult (somehow) for me to articulate.

I would have joined in to say I have just watched 'Possession' and was equally enthralled by how LP played that bad boy. And also thanks for bringing my attention to Thranduil's half-sheath - I had not noticed that. But... moving on, since we are in a new thread.

Love the vid you posted with the filming of the interrogation scene. New footage, I am just drinking it in! I too am holding out for the EE - I recall how my TEs of LOTR were taking up space once the EEs took pride of place. I figure I can always rent DoS TE if I get desperate.

And thanks also for posting the interview above with Lee Pace. Lots of good stuff there. I am musing on this line in particular:


Quote
But he is also sensitive, and I don’t mean emotionally sensitive. I mean, I believe that not a leaf moves in that forest that he doesn’t feel.

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today."


Nerven
Rivendell

Apr 13 2014, 4:14pm


Views: 5412
     might


Quote
Also congrats to Thranduil, King of Sass, winner of March Madness and even beating the likes of Galadriel, Aragorn and Bilbo, not to mention his own son. Hopefully PJ and the other producers will have realized by now how popular and perfect Thranduil is and give him more screentime in the EE and in TABA.


How unrealistic that people think Thranduil might be able to beat Aragon or even Galadriel, Galadriel was greatest and mightiest of the remaining elves and that´s canon.

And since when is Thranduil high elf? He doesn´t come from Aman.


(This post was edited by Nerven on Apr 13 2014, 4:22pm)


jkm7
Bree


Apr 13 2014, 5:23pm


Views: 5390
     Why not

Apparently Thranduil is meant to be Middle Earths best sword fighter, we just haven't seen him in battle just yet, but I'm really looking forward to it.
Plus March Madness never was about realism, it's just fun ^^


Rowan Greene
Lorien


Apr 13 2014, 5:46pm


Views: 5412
     There can be only ONE!



In Reply To


Just wanted to put it here for fellow thralls

TORn homepage headline: Congratulations to our 2014 Middle-earth March Madness champion: Thranduil!




Rowan Greene
Lorien


Apr 13 2014, 6:09pm


Views: 5378
     Unrealistic?

He did beat them......in this thing called March Madness, as in a game. It was all for fun and he probably won because he was so well-received by fans. I love the character--he's probably my favorite! (But I also love Galadriel, Legolas, Aragorn, Bilbo, Pippin, Boromir, Lord Elrond, Smaug, etc. etc. etc.)


In Reply To

Quote
Also congrats to Thranduil, King of Sass, winner of March Madness and even beating the likes of Galadriel, Aragorn and Bilbo, not to mention his own son. Hopefully PJ and the other producers will have realized by now how popular and perfect Thranduil is and give him more screentime in the EE and in TABA.


How unrealistic that people think Thranduil might be able to beat Aragon or even Galadriel, Galadriel was greatest and mightiest of the remaining elves and that´s canon.

And since when is Thranduil high elf? He doesn´t come from Aman.




(This post was edited by Rowan Greene on Apr 13 2014, 6:13pm)


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 13 2014, 9:08pm


Views: 5364
     Interesting scientific factoid

I'm currently taking a developmental psychology course and there was a small section about how your brain works differently if you learn a second language as a child than if you learn it as an adult. Apparently, if you learn a second language when you are very young, your brain stores that language in the same area as your first language, so when you switch back and forth between languages, you are only activating the one part of your brain. However, if you learn a second language as an adult, your brain stores the language in a different part of your brain than your first language, so when you switch back and forth, you are also having to activate two different parts of your brain at the same time.

Only a few adults (like those people who eventually become professional translators) get lucky and for some reason their brains continue to store the second (and third, fourth, etc) language in the same part of their brains as their first language and only have to activate the one part of their brain. I'm not sure if they know why that happens yet, but I think it's interesting that it works that way.Cool

"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 14 2014, 1:00pm


Views: 5321
     Well said! It's just March Madness, the name itself is a giveaway as its nature

 


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 14 2014, 1:03pm


Views: 5325
     Mighty March Madness, in which there is only 1 truth



Lighten up, Nerven.


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 14 2014, 1:09pm


Views: 5320
     You're welcome, jkm7

Me too! Thranduil is an Elf I feel I know quite well after all the research I did on him while on my fanficcing spree. I am truly well pleased with his onscreen avatar Wink

Quote
I love how much thought and effort Lee put into his role.



Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 14 2014, 1:19pm


Views: 5317
     Welcome back, Kerewyn

So cool to spend time in ME itself. Someday I hope to go too.

Wow... good harvest eh?

If you don't mind, is there is anything in there about Thranduil's weaponry? As you might have noticed, I have taken quite a fancy to that beautiful sword, and the partial sheath he wears to hold it in the orc interrogation scene.

Quote
but I did pick up Weta's Chronicles 2 and 3 'from the source'



another endorsement, thanks for sharing. I gotta move this flick up the list!

Quote
I would have joined in to say I have just watched 'Possession' and was equally enthralled by how LP played that bad boy.



I suppose that line ties in with his Fisher King inspiration. I don't know if you're aware: there was a TORn article a ringer wrote in response to his mention of the Fisher King and Oberon that expands on this quite well I thought.

Quote
And thanks also for posting the interview above with Lee Pace. Lots of good stuff there. I am musing on this line in particular:


Quote
But he is also sensitive, and I don’t mean emotionally sensitive. I mean, I believe that not a leaf moves in that forest that he doesn’t feel.



Glad to know there's someone else in thralldom who appreciates the finer discussion that was taking place, actually with much thanks to Vanima for taking the time to response. Smile


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 14 2014, 1:27pm


Views: 5342
     That is interesting!

It would explain a lot. Would be interesting to analyse the brain activity of people who are fluent in a foreign language learnt at different stages of life, and also comparing those who grew monolingual and those who were speaking 2 or languages. And as someone who didn't know the alphabet until I was about four/five and yet calls English my first language, I'd be interested in studies on the spontaneous cross-signalling that occurs (at least it seems common around these parts) for childhood multilinguists and the impact of adding new languages to the mix.

Thanks for the scientific factoid, Eruvandi.


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 14 2014, 1:40pm


Views: 5364
     How's about some levity (at Thranduil's expense) for the Monday blues?

(DISCLAIMER: Both are PG-rated, but depending on your drink-spew threshold, may not be work-safe or monitor-friendly)


Comic strip: The Best Friends

Spoofy take on the second Thranduil scene in DOS: elflings are hard work


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 14 2014, 1:42pm)


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 14 2014, 2:24pm


Views: 5314
     Lol

I like the "elflings are hard work" one best.Laugh

"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United


RandomSilvanElf
The Shire


Apr 14 2014, 2:26pm


Views: 5329
     Thanks for interviews.

 


Quote
PHILIPPA BOYENS: (...)What’s interesting about that is there is a kind hierarchy among the Elves of Mirkwood. There are the High Elves, which are Thranduil and Legolas, and then there are the more lowly, more earthy Elves, the Silvan Elves. Tauriel is a Silvan Elf. She’s very much an Elf of Middle-earth, whereas the High Elves have come from somewhere else across the seas, and they are slightly more ethereal.


That is one of the things that I dislike in this movie interpretation. First of all, although Sindarin Elves, meaning Thranduil and his kin, were Eldar -agreed to follow the Valar to their land overseas, they never really left it as they stop at some point of their journey, so saying that they came from overseas is simply wrong (some other Elves did, e.g. Galadriel was in Valinor),

Moreover, those Elves(meaning Oropher, Thranduil father and his followers) moved back to their Silvan cousins to follow their simple way of life, take their customs and mingle with them, so to assume that their created complicated social structures to distinguish themselves from them doesn't seem right. Even if Thranduil was the king, it still doesn't seem if it would matter to him if his son falls for Sindarin or Silvan elf. Especially when he obviously loved and cared deeply for all of his people (I mean elves :) ). For me that scene with Tauriel was just confusing. (especially after watching it for x times, just to absorb Thranduil greatness)


Quote
LEE PACE: He has history with Thorin’s father, Thorin’s father’s father, and Thorin’s father’s father’s father. He knows them all. And, as you remember in the prologue, there was a little bit of a look between Thranduil and Thorin’s grandfather. What that look is about is, ‘I see all this wealth you’re accumulating, and you’re going to burn. You are hoarding away a mountain of gold, and no good will come of it.’ That’s the wisdom of the Elves; that’s what they know. It’s not his business to tell the Dwarves how to run their lives, but it is his business to protect his people and to survive. That’s the obligation of the immortal.


And that is why Lee Pace is such an amazing Thranduil and was recognized since AUJ. He can describe the whole story and motivation behind a look that lasted seconds in a movie. ^_^


ltnjmy
Rivendell


Apr 14 2014, 7:47pm


Views: 5320
     Hoorah fellow Thrandy Thralls


In Reply To
I love that we're on thread III now! We rock! LaughHeart

Three Threads for his Handsome Sassiness. NiceHeart I desperately want a lot of Thrandy fighting and cool looking action scenes in TABA.Evil


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 14 2014, 11:01pm


Views: 5321
     Sometimes canon can go either way (especialy when it's so sparse :/ )

Re: Oropher

Quote
Canon-wise, we don't get any insight any influence Oropher (Legolas=Leggy, Thranduil=Thrandy, Oropher=Orry?) might have on Thranduil's treasure greed, do we?


I'd have to say no. But.... You can say that he didn't like Dwarves or Noldor Elves. And, both of those groups were known for their skill in crafting jewelry (among other things), while Oropher's Silvan Elves were not. You could then assume that he felt that lack? And that Thranduil picked up on it?

(The diminutives for Elven names are adorable, but... Orry? I can't help thinking OrryNorryDorry when I see it. Tongue )

Re: Thranduil (How about Wild Thing instead of Thrandy? Wink )


Quote
It is interesting that Thranduil does nothing else except for the tradeoff he proposed to Thorin in their faceoff to get the gems back, no waterboarding etc (which is a fortuitous bit of canon adherence imo).


Torturing Durin's heir could create the possibility for a war with the Dwarves, if word got out (maybe depending on whether or not the movie version's Dwarves also consider him the re-incarnation of Durin himself).


Quote
Also, in the AUJ prologue sequence, he did not go ballistic and snatch that treasure box, even though he could make off with it easily enough.


But, again, it could have led to a battle, if not a war. Especially if what Smaug says of the Arkenstone's influence on the Dwarves is true. (Everybody seems to have their own Dark Influence in this neck of the woods.)


Quote
And if that is linked to Lee's inspiration from Oberon and the Fisher King ("They’re not like people. They don’t understand things like people. They’re more like a blizzard, or a very old tree, or a bear, or a tiger. They’re wild things."), the concept of the link between king and land, then Mirkwood's sickness corrupting his heart, and Lee's mention (somewhere else I think) that Thranduil is aware of what's happening but can't stop the process, then I guess it ties in to his apparent greed on the surface. Which of course then resolves itself (hopefully) in TABA when the story of the White Gems is revealed and the Necromancer cast out from Dol Guldor.


I remember reading that bit somewhere, though Thranduil seems able to keep the corruption down to a General Bad Temper and Testiness Regarding Trespassers rather than the provocation that the Dwarven king offered him (with the not-offer of the Gems). I suppose you could also say it prompted him to leave the Dwarves to the Dragon. (And, maybe, that corruption also leads him to warn Tauriel off Legolas, because you wouldn't expect Oropher's son to be so prejudiced against his Sylvan Elves, based on the book description of how he adopts their way of life and seems to avoid other groups of Elves.)


Quote
I guess what I'm trying to say is that all the above seem like indications to the importance of those gems to him vis-a-vis the garden variety treasure, and at the same time demonstrate his greed may be different than what we see at face-value.


Yup, I too expect that will continue (with emphasis on the "different than what we see at face-value") when we (I hope) see some kind of reconciliation between Thorin and Thranduil in TaBA. (And Wild Thing's patience will pay off and he'll get those Gems of Pure Starlight.) I also hope they'll be some kind of satisfactory resolution of the Tuariel Problem (but I'm not sure PJ and Co. see Thranduil keeping the Sylvan and Sindarin lines separate as a problem).

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 14 2014, 11:27pm


Views: 5294
     Both are hilarious...

But Best Friends wins! Laugh

Too bad we won't ever be treated to an end-of-credits Easter Egg of Lee Pace's Thranduil reacting to Gimli accompanying Legolas to the Grey Havens.

Actually, that might be kind of teary. :/

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 14 2014, 11:42pm


Views: 5311
     I was just reading that bit in The History, myself

And I was assuming it was down to the influence of the Mirk in Mirkwood. But I've only read the Lee Pace interviews Lurker gave in that post, so far. I guess this means it's another canon change for the movies by PJ and Co. :/

Here's hoping it get's cleared up anyway - somehow - in TaBA.






Quote
PHILIPPA BOYENS: (...)What’s interesting about that is there is a kind hierarchy among the Elves of Mirkwood. There are the High Elves, which are Thranduil and Legolas, and then there are the more lowly, more earthy Elves, the Silvan Elves. Tauriel is a Silvan Elf. She’s very much an Elf of Middle-earth, whereas the High Elves have come from somewhere else across the seas, and they are slightly more ethereal.

That is one of the things that I dislike in this movie interpretation. First of all, although Sindarin Elves, meaning Thranduil and his kin, were Eldar -agreed to follow the Valar to their land overseas, they never really left it as they stop at some point of their journey, so saying that they came from overseas is simply wrong (some other Elves did, e.g. Galadriel was in Valinor),

Moreover, those Elves(meaning Oropher, Thranduil father and his followers) moved back to their Silvan cousins to follow their simple way of life, take their customs and mingle with them, so to assume that their created complicated social structures to distinguish themselves from them doesn't seem right. Even if Thranduil was the king, it still doesn't seem if it would matter to him if his son falls for Sindarin or Silvan elf. Especially when he obviously loved and cared deeply for all of his people (I mean elves :) ). For me that scene with Tauriel was just confusing. (especially after watching it for x times, just to absorb Thranduil greatness)


"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."

(This post was edited by vanima ephel on Apr 14 2014, 11:45pm)


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 15 2014, 1:56am


Views: 5315
     Correction...

I said:


Quote
Torturing Durin's heir could create the possibility for a war with the Dwarves, if word got out (maybe depending on whether or not the movie version's Dwarves also consider him the re-incarnation of Durin himself).


But, continuing to poke around in The History, and online, I see that it was actually the son of Thorin III who was considered Durin VII or Durin the Last (as in: the last reincarnation of Durin). At the moment, I'm not sure if any (potential?) Dwarf king is considered Durin's Heir or if solely the sons of the various Durins are rightfully called that. *crosses eyes*

For more relevance:


"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 15 2014, 11:20am


Views: 5268
     Heheh

I like that it works with the original visuals without 'shopping anything.


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 15 2014, 12:02pm


Views: 5268
     Happy to share

And its always great to hear opinions Smile

I'll admit to having this one fly over my head when I first read it because my ME memories have been on a bit of a hibernation Frown Too, the first time I saw DOS and Thranduil's elitism popped up, I was simply going "Oh great, make the King the jerk for being the obstacle in the unrequited(?) affair, what a cop-out way to create tension in the Leggy/Tauriel romance."

Though it was a really odd thing with a King who knows his mandate of rule and does things like turning away when Erebor was being laid to waste before his eyes because his priority is his people (Elves Smile). Even without taking into account the canon we know from Tolkien's work.

But going back to this bit in the interview, it does seem like there's a few things going on here, and I see it as revolving around the fact that the Silm is out of reach to PJ and crew but there's stuff that the team sees as great inference/reference for the story they want to tell and want to incorporate. We see the shades of that in movie Thranduil's backstory with the white gems and dragon fighting. It seems like they see playing off the different Elves helps the story. But rather than go into the complexities of all these differences, which is quite impossible with the Silm being untouchable, they went with the route of amalgamation and made 2 Elf classes.
I hope it's not... especially if its just to serve the romance, it's such a lot to throwaway for an (IMO mismanaged at the least) inserted subplot (and it burns all future bridges should PJ and crew, or be involved in some way in getting the Silm to screen and they want the thematic continuity). But it would be easier to explain to the the non-fandom world, as Philippa did here without muddying the water too much further than it has become. But I can't understand why else they would do this. Actually, in fact, they did not even need to emphasize the different Elves: ruler vs subject would be enough for the general audience. i bet the "lowly Silvan elf" bit got non-fan viewers going "Huh? Whaa? Aren't they all just Elves?"

Annnnnd, the gestalt that seems to be Thranduil's backstory: I'm still betting this bit of snobbery is a symptom of the corruption of Mirkwood affecting him and we should see some sort of resolution in TABA. (fingers crossed!)



Quote
That is one of the things that I dislike in this movie interpretation. First of all, although Sindarin Elves, meaning Thranduil and his kin, were Eldar -agreed to follow the Valar to their land overseas, they never really left it as they stop at some point of their journey, so saying that they came from overseas is simply wrong (some other Elves did, e.g. Galadriel was in Valinor),

Moreover, those Elves(meaning Oropher, Thranduil father and his followers) moved back to their Silvan cousins to follow their simple way of life, take their customs and mingle with them, so to assume that their created complicated social structures to distinguish themselves from them doesn't seem right. Even if Thranduil was the king, it still doesn't seem if it would matter to him if his son falls for Sindarin or Silvan elf. Especially when he obviously loved and cared deeply for all of his people (I mean elves :) ). For me that scene with Tauriel was just confusing. (especially after watching it for x times, just to absorb Thranduil greatness)



No argument from me there. It is really such a missed opportunity that Thranduil wasn't featured as much as he should be as the central Elf in this story. So there's only the EE and TABA left to hope that things will improve.Pirate

Quote
And that is why Lee Pace is such an amazing Thranduil and was recognized since AUJ. He can describe the whole story and motivation behind a look that lasted seconds in a movie. ^_^



Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 15 2014, 2:26pm


Views: 5253
     The resulting potential and fluidity is so interesting

I did a bit of nosing around online resources. The Silvan of Mirkwood did not seem to have much tradeskills or crafts to their name and yet they did trade. Which begs the interesting questions: How did they get the things they need to use? Road tolls may generate some income, but when things worsen, the scarcity of trade won't be enough to sustain the realm's needs, even if the tolls are hiked up to the skies.

Oropher ruled for a fair bit before Thranduil took over. Even if Oropher's administration had no treasury problems to begin, by the time the War rolled around, I'd think inflation and scarcity of goods and resources would have had impact on the prices of goods, especially luxury goods like Dorwinion wine, and the poverty line might have reared its ugly head? (Which might account for the lack of adequate protection for the troops that went to war, apart from hubris or bravado? I don't think Oropher would be that inexperienced with conflict to think light armour was enough in itself for battle in such a large scale theatre). I would think Thranduil was a studious king-in-waiting, and it helped he had the smarts to pick up the pieces during and after the war, and literally make things work. The ages changed, but there's still mouths to feed and a kingdom to run. So I do feel that economics play into Thranduil's gem-hoarding compulsion even if he didn't pick up the gem-envy from Dad.

Quote
And, both of those groups were known for their skill in crafting jewelry (among other things), while Oropher's Silvan Elves were not. You could then assume that he felt that lack? And that Thranduil picked up on it?



I know! LoL

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The diminutives for Elven names are adorable, but... Orry? I can't help thinking OrryNorryDorry when I see it.



Wild Thing... is all sorts of irrelevance... can we go with Thrandy instead?

Quote
Re: Thranduil (How about Wild Thing instead of Thrandy? Wink )



On teh Conflict with Dwarves and potential fire-starting, sorry it doesn't translate but I was taking a bit of a swipe at the Thranduil-is-a-jerk-because-he's-beautiful-anti-Dwarf-and-got-bling-envy sentiment that seems rather prevalent. But like you say, everyone does seem "to have their own Dark Influence in this neck of the woods". And yet, "Thranduil seems able to keep the corruption down to a General Bad Temper and Testiness Regarding Trespassers". If that sentiment was true, then Thranduil would have started a few wars for bling already. And with the insult Thorin threw in his face he would have been well within rights, according to Mirkwood statutes, to extract what he wanted by any means.Evil

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Quote
It is interesting that Thranduil does nothing else except for the tradeoff he proposed to Thorin in their faceoff to get the gems back, no waterboarding etc (which is a fortuitous bit of canon adherence imo).

Torturing Durin's heir could create the possibility for a war with the Dwarves, if word got out (maybe depending on whether or not the movie version's Dwarves also consider him the re-incarnation of Durin himself).


Quote
Also, in the AUJ prologue sequence, he did not go ballistic and snatch that treasure box, even though he could make off with it easily enough.

But, again, it could have led to a battle, if not a war. Especially if what Smaug says of the Arkenstone's influence on the Dwarves is true. (Everybody seems to have their own Dark Influence in this neck of the woods.)



Yeah. Fingers crossed for a sensible outcome.

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Yup, I too expect that will continue (with emphasis on the "different than what we see at face-value") when we (I hope) see some kind of reconciliation between Thorin and Thranduil in TaBA. (And Wild Thing's patience will pay off and he'll get those Gems of Pure Starlight.) I also hope they'll be some kind of satisfactory resolution of the Tuariel Problem (but I'm not sure PJ and Co. see Thranduil keeping the Sylvan and Sindarin lines separate as a problem).



OT: Just personally, as someone who benefitted from reading, I really Heart this bit from the interview. Literacy advocacy! Imagine Thranduil doing readings in schools




Quote
One thing I love about being in the movies is that when a kid will come up to me and want to talk about The Hobbit, I’m like, ‘Have you read it yet?’ Because it’s such a great book for kids to read because you’re never too young to pick up that book.



Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 15 2014, 2:28pm


Views: 5241
     I want that easter egg...

and the one where Lee Pace walks on set for the first ever Father and Son scene with Orlando Bloom and he goes "Legolas, I am your father." Tongue


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 15 2014, 2:30pm


Views: 5264
     Relevance? Sentiments not reciprocated by one of Thranduil's guests

 


Such insolence. Who could it be?
...


...



...



(Source: somewhere in tumblr I think, I lost track. More importantly, you got Pretty! in your post! Smile)


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 15 2014, 3:17pm


Views: 5281
     Re: Orry and Thrandy


Quote
I know! LoL

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The diminutives for Elven names are adorable, but... Orry? I can't help thinking OrryNorryDorry when I see it.

Maybe the diminutive for Oropher could just be "Oro"? Cuz I know an elf wouldn't want anyone confusing him with a dwarf.Angelic


Quote
Wild Thing... is all sorts of irrelevance... can we go with Thrandy instead?

Quote
Re: Thranduil (How about Wild Thing instead of Thrandy? Wink )

But, but, but...As much as I like calling him Thrandy, if we call him Wild Thing too then we get to have this as his theme song!EvilLaughTongue It's too perfect! Just like him!Heart




Quote
OT: Just personally, as someone who benefitted from reading, I really Heart this bit from the interview. Literacy advocacy! Imagine Thranduil doing readings in schools.
Quote
One thing I love about being in the movies is that when a kid will come up to me and want to talk about The Hobbit, I’m like, ‘Have you read it yet?’ Because it’s such a great book for kids to read because you’re never too young to pick up that book.

My goodness, could LP possibly be any sweeter?Heart Re: Thranduil reading in schools, Oooooh yeeeeah, that would be a major boost for Literacy advocacy! Wink

"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Apr 15 2014, 4:57pm


Views: 5248
     Neat!!

Is there a theory that tries to explain this phenomenon?

Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 15 2014, 5:27pm


Views: 5986
     *flips through textbook*

Let's see here. *reading* Hmm. She doesn't say exactly why or how, but the author seems to be implying that puberty has something to do with it. (Doesn't it always?)Wink

"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Apr 15 2014, 5:36pm


Views: 5972
     Interesting...Thanks for looking!!

One more favour...Angelic. Is there a name for it? It sounds quite fascinating, and I'm just an information sponge.

Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 15 2014, 6:04pm


Views: 5994
     Nope. No name.

The author didn't go into much detail about it at all other than what I talked about in my previous posts. I wish she had though. I think it's fascinating too.Cool

"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United


Kerewyn
Rohan


Apr 16 2014, 11:22am


Views: 5999
     On Thranduil's sword - for you, Lurker


Quote
If you don't mind, is there is anything in there about Thranduil's weaponry? As you might have noticed, I have taken quite a fancy to that beautiful sword, and the partial sheath he wears to hold it in the orc interrogation scene.


Yes there is a little bit. Chronicles author & Weta designer Daniel Falconer says:

"Thranduil's sword was a lucky first strike. Paul Tobin and I offered a handful of concepts and Peter picked one straight out. I liked the conceptual purity of an entire sword that was crafted from a single piece of metal, handle and all, a severity and simplicity that befit Thranduil. Cut-throughs and filigree wove like vines along the handle, offering grip, and subtracting weight from the blade itself. Weta Workshop Swordsmith Peter Lyon's finished prop was an exceptional piece of work."

There's an image too, which I'll post for you soon. Gimme a day or so, I'll need to photograph during daylight (coz these pages are glossy! and I don't have a scanner)

Nothing about the sheath, but I may be able to do some detective work on that...


Quote
I suppose that line ties in with his Fisher King inspiration. I don't know if you're aware: there was a TORn article a ringer wrote in response to his mention of the Fisher King and Oberon that expands on this quite well I thought.

No I wasn't aware, was it recently? I don't suppose you have a link? *bats eyelashes*

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today."


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 16 2014, 11:59am


Views: 5964
     What about symmetry then? Wrath! Ruin! And that theme...

Erm... Oropher=Oro -> Thranduil=Thrando -> Legolas=Lego ??


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Maybe the diminutive for Oropher could just be "Oro"? Cuz I know an elf wouldn't want anyone confusing him with a dwarf.



LOL... That one popped right into my head when Vanima mentioned Wild Thing, but somehow Thranduil doesn't give me the mop top vibe, you know? Jangly guitars neither. I rather thought this might be his theme, given the very different hats he wears across the spectrum. Or one of these 2 songs, depending on how who you speak to.

Ok, ok... aside from my electric guitar hangup, I do think either Hall of the Mountain or this
(to me) souped up version would be so Thranduil's theme.

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But, but, but...As much as I like calling him Thrandy, if we call him Wild Thing too then we get to have this as his theme song!EvilLaughTongue It's too perfect! Just like him!Heart




Yeah, read or else (cue orc beheading) ...

I think it would so surprise educators the demand for readings Wink

Quote
My goodness, could LP possibly be any sweeter?Heart Re: Thranduil reading in schools, Oooooh yeeeeah, that would be a major boost for Literacy advocacy! Wink






Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 16 2014, 12:01pm)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 16 2014, 12:08pm


Views: 5955
     Found this artwork of that BTS of Thranduil in armour

http://hart-coco.tumblr.com/...anduil-this-time-the


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 16 2014, 12:15pm


Views: 5971
     Linkie with thanks!

Here it is, Kerewyn: Thranduil, The Fisher King and Oberon; Why It Matters

Thanks very much for the details. "...severity and simplicity...", "Cut-throughs and filigree... subtracting weight from the blade itself". Practical simplicity and yet so aesthetical. Heart


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Kerewyn
Rohan


Apr 16 2014, 12:54pm


Views: 5934
     Thranduil cosplay

So - I went to Supanova in Melbourne...
(my post) http://newboards.theonering.net/...;;page=unread#unread

Stalking...


...moving in...


..captured.


This guy has done a wonderful job on his costume.I inspected the crown closely - it was made from a modelling clay and looked very close to the real design. He told me he is working on having all five of Thranduil's garments, so I'll have to keep an eye out for him at future cons.

Then went on to win - out of all the fandoms present - Best Cosplay, to rapturous applause. This cosplayer has his own fangirls! He even performed a cloak 'throw down' (which I was too slow to photograph)


And I just like this photo from a lineup of entrants....




'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today."


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 16 2014, 1:06pm


Views: 5948
     That cloak throwdown!

Must be priceless to witness that.

Thanks for sharing Smile


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Kerewyn
Rohan


Apr 16 2014, 1:32pm


Views: 5930
     And thank you so much ...

.. for that link :)
Good to get the lowdown on the Fisher King and Oberon, with whom I was not really familiar.
Wow. I had never considered that before, that the state of Mirkwood could be connected to Thranduil's state of mind.

And I am more impressed than ever with Lee's embracing of his role, as the author of the piece also mentions. We've already been treated to such depth of character in such a small amount of screen time. As she says, there's a lot to look forward to.

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today."


RandomSilvanElf
The Shire


Apr 16 2014, 2:28pm


Views: 5928
     Great!

I love this one! To be truthful I like better than the original line. I wish the elves in the movie were more playful like this :)



Quote
Spoofy take on the second Thranduil scene in DOS: elflings are hard work


"Caras Galadhon… the heart of Elvendom on earth. Realm of Lord Celeborn and Galadriel, Lady of Light"

http://betweenfictionandreality.wordpress.com/


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 16 2014, 4:11pm


Views: 5906
     Excellent!

Some people are so talented. Of course having such a fabulous subject to paint probably helps.Wink

"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 17 2014, 1:36pm


Views: 5868
     Interesting, isn't it?

It does have a logical tie-in, the link between lord and land, especially a land of "faerie" and magic. Who needs great Rings of Power to do awesome stuff? Smile

We've been lucky to get an actor who can throw himself into a role so completely. In my forays into the Wild looking for Thranduil stuff, I find it amusing to see comments along the lines of "OMG! How can the Pie-maker and Thranduil be the same person!?!!!"

While I've not seen everything in his filmography, I think it's safe to say that it's the same actor in these 2 vastly different roles tells us a lot about Lee's dedication to his craft. Can't wait to see more.

And of course, I'm certainly looking forward to the inclusion of more Thranduil/Mirkwood in the DOS EE, especially the white stag bit that Richard Armitage mentioned.

Quote
And I am more impressed than ever with Lee's embracing of his role, as the author of the piece also mentions. We've already been treated to such depth of character in such a small amount of screen time. As she says, there's a lot to look forward to.



Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 17 2014, 1:39pm


Views: 5877
     That goes without saying //

 


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 17 2014, 1:43pm


Views: 5920
     another nice piece of artwork

If you like this pic, you'll like this colour background enhanced version.



Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 18 2014, 1:11pm


Views: 5902
     Fanart of the day... I've not seen this before

Thranduil in a characterful pose: http://ladymintleaf.deviantart.com/art/Thranduil-hidden-thoughts-435091148


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 18 2014, 2:10pm


Views: 5844
     Lovely

I like how introspective he looks in that one.Smile

"So I will call upon Your name
And keep my eyes above the waves
When oceans rise
My soul will rest in Your embrace
For I am Yours and You are mine"
--Hillsong United


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 19 2014, 2:53pm


Views: 5827
     Yeah...

As in, "Damn, what if Thorin really does sit it out for 100 years?" Tongue

I like how the artist used a combo of shots we've seen with some improvision to do this.


Elvenking enthrallment
--------------------------
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread



Nimloth
Lorien


Apr 20 2014, 5:50am


Views: 5803
     What dedication!

Thanks for posting those Kerewyn. His costume looks pretty close to the real thing. Did he make it himself?


Kerewyn
Rohan


Apr 20 2014, 10:46am


Views: 5790
     Yes, true dedication.

Yes he did. He told me he is working on making all Thranduil's costumes, and that this one had already taken up more fabric than any previous costume he's ever made. I didn't ask about the brooch (not sure if that has become available from any jewellers) if he made that, as he did the crown, the design looked to be spot on as well.

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today." (Dr Seuss)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 20 2014, 2:25pm


Views: 5892
     About the bling on his right hand (or have I too much time for nerding?)

So I was reading the bit about Elves and marriage rings from the HoME bit about Elven laws and customs vanima provided in thread II, and saw this char pic of Thranduil right here on TORn


... and the little grey cells starting wiggling at the part about Elves wearing their wedding rings on the right index finger. Looking at the two rings on Thranduil's right hand, they have the same thematic look. Lee Pace has mentioned all the rings Thranduil wear have stories behind them,and he's had some serious unhappiness in his life... so could it be that the second ring he wears belonged to his Queen, who might be dead or went West? Mawkish, yeah, but it's fun to speculate until we hear otherwise Tongue

Oh here's a better look at all them blings.


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 21 2014, 12:49am


Views: 5804
     Why must LP be such a tease?

He tells us that all those rings have their own story, but then doesn't tell us what those stories are. It's just not fair, I tell ya! Unless the scarring back-story of one of those rings is a spoiler for the last movie, I see no reason why he can't tell us about them now. I sure hope that one of the upcoming books or even one of the extras in the DOS EE appendices has info on what the story of each and every one of his rings is or I will be seriously unhappy.Mad

I've always assumed that the ring with the big honkin' rock on it is probably his signet ring, don't you think?

Interesting theory about the two rings on his right hand. I read that HoME bit that you linked and I notice it says that the rings that the bride and bridegroom give each other when they're betrothed are silver, and, lookie there: Thrandy's rings are silver! It makes sense too that if the second ring belonged to his wife that it would be smaller so he'd have to wear it on his ring finger.

The only thing I saw in the HoME bit that is inconsistent with this theory is that it said, at the actual wedding, while both bride and bridegroom keep the silver rings that they gave each other when they were betrothed, they then start wearing a gold ring instead of the silver. I didn't have time to read the whole document, so I don't know if it said anything about what they do with these rings if one of the spouses should die. But I wonder if maybe the surviving spouse would stop wearing the gold ring and go back wearing one, if not both of the silver rings as a visual symbol that, "Yes, I am married, but my spouse died."? (Did that make any sense at all?) And like it said in the earlier part of the document, even if one elven spouse dies, the two are technically still married, unless both consent to disunion because the living spouse wants to get married again. I think it's pretty safe to say that Thrandy doesn't appear to have wanted to get married again, so, yeah.

My only question then would be, what do they do with the gold rings? Hey, wait a minute...Thrandy has a gold ring on his other hand!Shocked Of course, it's not exactly the simple gold band talked about the the HoME bit, but then again, Thrandy isn't exactly known for his simplicity now, is he?Wink

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 21 2014, 4:34am


Views: 5822
     We keep falling back on banking on extras in the EE, don't we?

I want to know the history of his swords too. Did the smiths forge them after the Last Alliance or have they seen battle during that war? I do hope we get some info at some point.Mad


On the 2 rings on his right hand
Eh, firstly, I must say my theory is based on a few caveats:
  • The Laws and Customs bit did mention that the described rituals are based on Noldorin practices and also that of the Dark Elves, not much is known of their customs. Given the 2 strikes of Thranduil being one of the Dark Elves, and the negativity Thranduil's family have against the Noldor, not all that is written might or would apply.
  • Movie laws and customs - we don't know what the team has decided to co-opt or exclude or create... plus we don't know how much Lee Pace's stories about the bling is based on canon, the production team's input and his own research/creation
The text does mention that the betrothal silver rings would be melted down and never be recycled if the betrothal is called off. But there's no mention of what happens to the gold wedding rings should a spouse die or leave for the West. So we're left with quite some room for theorizing and speculating. Tongue

While the text mentioned betrothal rings are silver and marriage rings gold, it may not be quite the same for Mirkwood, or maybe just Thranduil's family. So if this little theory is right, I'd say it's quite safe to say the rings are marriage rings and not betrothal rings. And if it is true that the ring on Thranduil's index finger is his marriage ring, and the one on his ring finger belonged to his queen, I'm thinking the movie-verse might be giving the Elrond-Celebrian treatment to Thranduil's marriage. He might be wearing her ring as a memo from her to meet up in the West. Or if movie-canon is going the uber-melodrama route, she died and he is wearing it in memory (OOOH, fanfic plot bunnies bouncing in my poor head!).

Anyway, while the text focused on Noldor customs, I do think it would be safe to say Thranduil, like most Elves, would not be inclined to remarry if his queen has indeed died. So I don't think he'd wear the betrothal rings in such a way, since the text says during the betrothal period, either party may rescind it; unless he wants trouble that is. The marriage rings would do the work of sending a firm message, either "I am married/not available", or "yeah, my spouse is no more, but no thanks, I'm not looking again" (which shouldn't be necessary given the elves' propensity for monogamy and Thranduil being well-known enough that the female elf population know it's a foregone case anyway).

Quote
But I wonder if maybe the surviving spouse would stop wearing the gold ring and go back wearing one, if not both of the silver rings as a visual symbol that, "Yes, I am married, but my spouse died."?



That other index finger's ring
I would think so. Also, its got a bit of a glow like but not as great as Nenya (of course), which makes me wonder if its a minor ring of power of some sort? It may be Oropher's, passed down the line.

Quote
I've always assumed that the ring with the big honkin' rock on it is probably his signet ring, don't you think?



The gold ring on his left ring finger
I find the snake motif interesting. Reminds me of the Ring of Barahir that Aragon wore, which is of course a famous ring with a long history. But that ring was silver and had 2 snakes intertwined with green emerald eyes. Thranduil's has the one snake (?) in gold with a very different design. Wonder if there is a link between the two, though of course Barahir's ring is tied again to the Noldor, so it might be just a coincidence or a common ring theme for Elven rulers or nobility?

Thranduil is King! He has austere elegance, and that is not to be mistaken for simplicity. A complex elf with a complex history, and who knows what complexes by the time we get done with the trilogy? Smile

Quote
Hey, wait a minute...Thrandy has a gold ring on his other hand!Shocked Of course, it's not exactly the simple gold band talked about the the HoME bit, but then again, Thrandy isn't exactly known for his simplicity now, is he?



This is fun. And hey, wonder if that outfit he wore in the char pic (same as in the AUJ prologue right?) will be seen onscreen again?



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 21 2014, 4:40am)


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 21 2014, 2:30pm


Views: 5763
     Outfit


Quote
wonder if that outfit he wore in the char pic (same as in the AUJ prologue right?) will be seen onscreen again?


Yeah, I think it's the same outfit as in the AUJ prologue. Will we see it onscreen again? Hmm. Well, the only TABA outfit we know about for sure is the armor he'll wear during Bo5a. I guess if he wears the prologue outfit again, it would have to be before or after Bo5a. Maybe he could wear it before he and his army leave Mirkwood, or, if we get the scenes from the book where Bilbo and Gandalf ride with the elves for awhile before parting ways to head home, he could wear it then.

Then again, would Thrandy even still have that outfit after all those years between the AUJ prologue and the present? Depending on how often he wore it, it might have worn out by now. If that's the case, the only chance we'll have of seeing it again would be in flashback sequences of some sort.

Of course, the only other option would be *drumroll please* The extras in one of the EEs!Tongue

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 22 2014, 9:02am


Views: 5721
     Well, if the movie was keeping the book timeline

it may be getting a little ratty by the time December rolls around for BoFA. But well, he could have had it remade even if the one we saw had its day, unless it's no longer fashionable togs?

LOL... we're so hung up on Extras in the EE like a bad addiction, or is it an itch we can't properly scratch. Crazy




... pretty quiet around here these days, isn't it?


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 22 2014, 2:19pm


Views: 6972
     His Royal Fabulousness does not follow trends...

He sets them! So if he wants to wear that outfit, I'm sure he will whether it's fashionable or not.Cool

Quote
it may be getting a little ratty by the time December rolls around for BoFA. But well, he could have had it remade even if the one we saw had its day, unless it's no longer fashionable togs?


Yes, our fixation on the EE extras is starting to borderline on dragon sickness! A strain of madness runs deep in this fandom.Crazy

Quote
LOL... we're so hung up on Extras in the EE like a bad addiction, or is it an itch we can't properly scratch. Crazy


*cricket, cricket*

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... pretty quiet around here these days, isn't it?


"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Kerewyn
Rohan


Apr 23 2014, 3:38am


Views: 7277
     I loe that Erebor outfit

Ooh, thanks for posting that photo! While you've been singing about bling, I've been checking out the threads - I love fabrics (and fashion). Look at that lacy filigree – I wondered if it was meant to be evocative of cobweb? Not that that spiders are flavour of the month in Mirkwood, but going back in time to that prologue setting, when they'd not become the menace they are now, perhaps it was a homage to these creatures of the forest. But yes (lol) I am clearly obsessing about detail too.

Anyway, I decided to turn to my trusty Chronicle book, to see if there was anything about this garment. And lo - this, from costume designer Bob Buck:

“Thranduil needed a costume for his visit to Erebor and Philipa Boyens left us with the words starlight and moonlight to consider. To me that suggests a pewter silver shimmer or perhaps some slightly grey-mauve tones, but overall, a coolness, which is Thranduil through and through. I wanted to achieve an iridescent quality in the garment and to continue those long, lean lines of his hair down this costume so that hair and clothing became almost one - icy, simple and iconic. He has long lines that accentuate his leanness, tapering to points in his sleeves , collars and shoulders.

The crown that had been made was very spiky and I wanted to ensure that the feeling of sharpness carried through into the costume as well. That barbed beauty is such a part of Thranduil’s character.

The colour and texture of the costume were evocative of silver birch, but the overall effect we were looking for was one of coldness, of winter. Other scenes in which we saw Thranduil in Mirkwood had an autumnal palette, but this was a different time and, in my mind, a different season.

We found a fabric that had a certain intertwining quality. Mirkwood is a dense, bewildering and unforgiving place, full of twisting vines and tangled branches, with thorny organic forms. Combined with elegant brocade fabrics, that we cut up and put back together, this felt very appropriate to Thranduil. Breaking them up and recombining them made them feel more abstract, angular and organic, almost like bark. We took his robes completely to the ground because he is a king and these are his lordly garments. Given he is paying an official state visit to Erebor when we see him in this costume, I think he would be in his full regalia.”

Wow.

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today." (Dr Seuss)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 23 2014, 9:48am


Views: 6908
     No, you're right. He does not.

His fabulousness is royally unbound by convention. Whatever he wears is FAB, whatever the age Cool


(source)



Only elvish medicine will do now. Gather some athelas and summon a healer. A male one please!

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Yes, our fixation on the EE extras is starting to borderline on dragon sickness! A strain of madness runs deep in this fandom.



Well, at least they're rhyming with the twinkling stars.

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*cricket, cricket*






Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 23 2014, 10:05am


Views: 6896
     Kerewyn, you're a star!

Wow, thanks for typing it out!

So the Erebor outfit is Thranduil's state visit royal regalia. Very fitting. I like the thinking that went into its design. A mix of starlight, abstract organic thorniness for the barbed beauty, icy, simple and yet iconic. Goes with everything else besides his hair - his looks, personality, and that sword!

I was looking for a fuller version of that pic for you, Kerewyn, where we see his torso as well. I remember glimpsing a sash/belt thing on his waist. This is the best I could locate now. Still beautiful and with a fan enhanced background to boot. It's not a full-length pic though. Wonder if it's out there somewhere... And of course, I can't help staring at the sword and admiring the runes that they filigreed out of the blade. Love that you can actually see through the sword in places. Precious! (So glad I'm not the only obsessing around here )


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 23 2014, 11:35pm


Views: 6894
     I have some catching up to do

But first I really need to finish going through all of the "Laws and Customs."

(I'm afraid I really am more of a lurker, by nature. :~/ It doesn't mean I'm not paying attention. I'll be back. /fair warning )

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 24 2014, 1:17am


Views: 6871
     Addendum (since we're on state visits to Erebor)


It was like a silent movie and I know it's been gushed and discussed before, but I love the King's 2 epic head tilts in the AUJ prologue... ... No dialogue necessary!

Oooh... and here's a HD vid of the extended scene of Thranduil in Erebor. The regalia in action looks so fab. The King is of course magnificent. He's there paying respect after all. I particularly like the expressions he goes through when the chest was presented. You see how he was attracted immediately, those gorgeous peepers subtly lowering and then coming back up as he asserts composure, and then the careful focus as he approached the chest... ... still no dialogue necessary Cool (would have been epic to hear some exchange between Thranduil and Thror or Thrain or even Thorin though)


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 24 2014, 1:27am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 24 2014, 1:30am


Views: 6872
     Bring it!



Yay, you're back! Let's get some geek on, anytime you're ready (insert nerd icon here)
...
...
...
(and I'm supposed to be the lurky one...)


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 24 2014, 1:41am)


Kerewyn
Rohan


Apr 24 2014, 7:54am


Views: 6872
     The sword

No problem, Smile Am glad I can contribute in some way, since I don't have a depth of Tolkien and reading. (am so enjoying learning from you guys) I find myself more studying how these movies were made, the artistry that's gone into them, and the Chronicles are like my textbooks. It should be a whole genre in itself - the art of Middle Earth! Can I get a qualification in that?

Thanks for the video clip - I was just thinking I must get the video out and maybe even test my screen-capping skills.
Oh - and that fan art of Thranduil in contemporary clothing?! *jaw drops open* I can't stop ... looking at this.... HeartShockedHeart

Also, I used to think I was the only one who obsessed about the slightest subtle nuance of a look or indeed head tilt in my favourite characters. I am in good company here then.Wink


Quote

And of course, I can't help staring at the sword and
admiring the runes that they filigreed out of the blade. Love that you can
actually see through the sword in places. Precious! (So glad I'm not the only
obsessing around here )




I hadn't forgotten this. Though that image you'd posted does show it up close, here it is from the book, along with an Alan Lee sketch of the staff.


In case you are curious about the text there, it says:
"As with everything to do with Thranduil, the design of his staff included thorn and stag-horn elements. Compared to the imagery in Rivendell. there was more vigour in the Woodland Realm, with shapes that were stronger and slightly more ambiguous. It was beautiful, Elven design, but with an element of threat to it as well." (Alan Lee)

Here's an early concept sketch from Weta that I also like. Oh the grandeur! The style of the crown reminds of a Roman emperor's headwear.



'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today." (Dr Seuss)

(This post was edited by Kerewyn on Apr 24 2014, 7:56am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 24 2014, 9:57am


Views: 6865
     Comtempory Thranduil... and incognito? (Shocking)

I know right? I've seen a few fanart of him in earth fashion but that one really encapsulates the essence of Thranduil so well. And its simplicity adds to its genius!
(The next best one that I think is out there is this one. Nice too, but just not quite so enthralling as that one)

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Oh - and that fan art of Thranduil in contemporary clothing?! *jaw drops open* I can't stop ... looking at this.... HeartShockedHeart



And while I was wading through "Thranduil" images, this popped up. After studying it, I can draw no other conclusion but that it's Thranduil incognito...Wink

(source)

So unbelievably uncharacteristic of the Elvenking, but I submit circumstantial evidence in support of the notion it is the fabulous one trying to put one past the fans.



You should be awarded a Masters for that! And when you do your doctorate, all the ME resources that PJ, cast and the production team have should be open access to you. I'd like to apply for the position of your research assistant please. Smile

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I find myself more studying how these movies were made, the artistry that's gone into them, and the Chronicles are like my textbooks. It should be a whole genre in itself - the art of Middle Earth! Can I get a qualification in that?



Thank you! I am so tempted to get my own copies of the books... but they cost a pretty penny from the local bookstores, at least 50% on the price from the source. But if I order from the source, there's shipping. ARGH! I have to plan carefully for this. (PLUS my old rickety bookshelf is on its last leg. I don't want to send it to its grave any earlier than I have to)

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I hadn't forgotten this. Though that image you'd posted does show it up close, here it is from the book, along with an Alan Lee sketch of the staff.




OOOH. That is nice! Thranduil would look a great deal more militant and imperious... conquerous? Perhaps that's why they didn't go with it in the end? But I can see this working as stylings for Oropher.

And is it just me, or does the face in the sketch look like its based on dear Mr Pace?

Quote
Here's an early concept sketch from Weta that I also like. Oh the grandeur! The style of the crown reminds of a Roman emperor's headwear.







Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 24 2014, 10:03am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 24 2014, 10:10am


Views: 6887
     In celebration of the impending end of week... some comics featuring Thranduil vs that insolent trespassing dwarf

Staring match

Waiting


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 24 2014, 10:11am)


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 24 2014, 4:35pm


Views: 6881
     Lol!

Those are cute!Heart

I wish I could find more Thranduil stuff to share, but I'm afraid my limited resources have run dry at the moment.Unsure

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 24 2014, 5:01pm


Views: 6832
     Exactly what I was thinking

The early, more militant/conquerous designs are nice and all, but I much prefer the crown/staff, etc, designs that ended up in the movie, as they just scream "Thranduil" to me. But I totally agree that the early designs would have been perfect for Oropher had he made an appearance. It make perfect sense too, that a father and son's designs would be similar in theme, but still unique to the individual.

Hey, was Oropher in the Silmarillion? If he was, then maybe they can keep those designs in mind if they ever get the rights to a Sil movie or TV mini-series. (she said hopefullyAngelic)

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OOOH. That is nice! Thranduil would look a great deal more militant and imperious... conquerous? Perhaps that's why they didn't go with it in the end? But I can see this working as stylings for Oropher.


Yes, I think they are. IIRC, Wikipedia's Hobbit page said that PJ has liked LP ever since seeing him in The Fall and that he was at the top of the list to play Thranduil. I figure the concept artists probably like to draw things so that they look as close to the finished product as possible, and that would include drawing the actor who is playing the character to be sure that what they design suits the frame of the actual person, not just the character they imagine in their heads.

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And is it just me, or does the face in the sketch look like its based on dear Mr Pace?


"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Nimloth
Lorien


Apr 25 2014, 3:49am


Views: 6833
     Very funny!

Where do you find these things? Cool


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 25 2014, 7:38am


Views: 6794
     I see those and I had to laugh, and was sure it'd be appreciated here too

Aww... It's ok. we should be seeing new stuff with the PJ announcement out now, soonish eh? Can't wait!

Quote
I wish I could find more Thranduil stuff to share, but I'm afraid my limited resources have run dry at the moment.




Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 25 2014, 7:44am


Views: 6802
     Oropher

He wasn't in the Silm as a proper character, if memory serves. He mostly lived in the appendices and footnotes of various books, like Thranduil. But there is a mention of him in the Unfinished Tales, together with Thranduil, where the story of Galadriel and Celeborn was described.


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 25 2014, 7:47am


Views: 6798
     Out in the far side beyond the Wild

Where no one should go Tongue I truly don't understand why I keep doing it. My sanity is stake and I am scared for life... but I guess these little gems make it all right, for a little bit.


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 25 2014, 8:26am


Views: 6835
     Thranduil's Armour: Concept Art Vs What We Got

Probably Kerewyn can confirm, but this is apparently a concept art for the King's armour. Quite thematic to the armour of the guards in the throne room and the border patrol. More practical too, especially with the helmet. But it seems a bit too... clunky?

What do you think of it, as compared to this? The wearer notwithstanding of course.



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 25 2014, 8:37am)


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 25 2014, 8:38pm


Views: 6802
     Whoa

Interesting concept, but definitely too clunky. It looks like he's be able to take all of two steps before falling over, either from the weight of it or from tripping over the cloak.Crazy That would not be fabulous at all. I'm not fond of the helmet either.

I much prefer the current design. It looks like something he can actually fight (and walk) in, unlike the other one.

Hey, speaking of helmets...Is it just me, or does it seem like a lot of the major characters in both LOTR or TH never wear a helmet into battle? Sure, there are exceptions to that rule, like Theoden, Eomer, Eowyn, and both Merry and Pippin at certain times. But other than them, I can think of a lot of important characters that don't wear a helmet even when they really should for the sake of their health. Just off the top of my head, in LOTR there's Aragorn, Legolas, Gandalf, Haldir, Elrond, Gil-galad (not that a helmet would have made much difference for him, poor guy). And in TH there's, oh I don't know...all 13 dwarves!, Bilbo, Legolas (again), Tauriel, Bard may wear a helmet during Bo5a but then he may not, and I doubt that if/when we see Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf, Radagast, and Saruman in action again that any of them will wear helmets, and now we've got Thranduil to add to the list too. I mean, haven't any of them seen those "This is your brain without a helmet" posters?!Tongue Seriously. Of course we know that the real reason Thranduil doesn't wear a helmet is because no one with hair that shiny and gorgeous would want to cover it up, much less get helmet hairWink. But the rest of them don't have an excuse.

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 26 2014, 8:38am


Views: 6919
     Of Elvish Armour and Helm a.k.a. dear leaders' safety is non sequitur?

Too right!

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That would not be fabulous at all. I'm not fond of the helmet either.



The throneroom royal/honour guard's concept was pretty nifty though, and the helmet add the ominous accent when Thranduil decides to menace whoever's got his audience. I don't know why, but I like the idea of the covered faces, even though it's quite unelvish. Almost like something you'd see in Mordor fashion or even Dol Guldur than an elven realm. But it fits the times, and reflect Thranduil's darker and seemingly contrarian thinking of a character who could go either way. definitely get the Mirkwood Elves=More dangerous vibe!

Actually, remove this helmet and you pretty much have the foundation of that concept art picture, except that picture, as we've agreed, just doesn't have quite the wow factor of the armour we've got (or is my judgment being clouded by Thranduil being in it? Laugh ).


The ceremonious nature of the royal guard armour is very much in contrast to the border guards. Again, there's a themetic look, but you can see these guys' armour is much more functional...



One interesting point of reference for the leader's guard when outdoors... look! Helmets!
Armour of Elrond's hunting party. Still got that shiny element you'd expect of Elves


Armour of Thranduil's contingent on his state visit to Erebor (but the honour guards do seem to be among the entourage. The 4 elves with Thranduil in the Erebor scene seemed to be wearing the honour guard armour, just no helm.)


... another look, sans helms (Slight OT: oooh... lookie those swords! Wicked!). It seems more... organic? And could serve somewhat as camoflage in a woodsy setting. But I'm glad to see Mirkwood's been doing right by defence spending. Thranduil certainly learnt that lesson that cost the troops much more lives than they would have suffered just cos of inappropriate gear for the Last Alliance.



So evidence suggests leaders are aware of the importance of keeping the soldier's head on his shoulders, and preferably in functioning condition. But nope, the leaders themselves obviously need to show their faces, or hair, and be a beacon to the troops. Nevermind putting a great big "Shoot here!" to enemy long-range weapons and risking troop morale and the gameplan.



Quote
Hey, speaking of helmets...Is it just me, or does it seem like a lot of the major characters in both LOTR or TH never wear a helmet into battle? Sure, there are exceptions to that rule, like Theoden, Eomer, Eowyn, and both Merry and Pippin at certain times. But other than them, I can think of a lot of important characters that don't wear a helmet even when they really should for the sake of their health. Just off the top of my head, in LOTR there's Aragorn, Legolas, Gandalf, Haldir, Elrond, Gil-galad (not that a helmet would have made much difference for him, poor guy). And in TH there's, oh I don't know...all 13 dwarves!, Bilbo, Legolas (again), Tauriel, Bard may wear a helmet during Bo5a but then he may not, and I doubt that if/when we see Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf, Radagast, and Saruman in action again that any of them will wear helmets, and now we've got Thranduil to add to the list too. I mean, haven't any of them seen those "This is your brain without a helmet" posters?!Tongue



Exactly. How can any Mirkwood soldier not want to be reminded of the hair-glory and swashbuckling cool the King struts? To the end of the world! Or maybe just into Erebor for now. Tongue


Plus it may serve the purpose of striking fear into the enemy to realize the legendary warrior is in the fray. (Damn: BOFA can't get here fast enough!)

Quote
Seriously. Of course we know that the real reason Thranduil doesn't wear a helmet is because no one with hair that shiny and gorgeous would want to cover it up, much less get helmet hairWink. But the rest of them don't have an excuse.







Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 26 2014, 8:39am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 26 2014, 8:42am


Views: 6783
     Is that crown we've not seem for the Feast of starlight?

So it seems like the feast was filmed. Could this be part of the King's costume for presiding over proceedings for the festival?



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 27 2014, 7:31am


Views: 6741
     Canon-considerate captions.. funny too

Can you imagine Thranduil being this mild?Tongue




Belligerence, Mirkwood style Heart




Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 27 2014, 8:09am


Views: 6758
     It's all about the look

Since I don't seem to be making any headway on my "Laws and Customs" analysis (which started out as a search for reasons Tauriel would be an appropriate Captain of the Guard - or something along those lines - but has morphed into working out my personal head canon for Thranduil's Crazy Face moment), I might as well just jump back in...


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"Is that crown we've not seen for the Feast of starlight?"

I would really love it if that turned out to be the case. I'd also like to see the complete outfit, the (outdoor?) throne, and maybe some of the ceremony he uses for a starlight festival. (I don't think that's asking too much.
Tongue )

RE: All those Helmets (and that hair)

Most of them do seem to be primarily for pageantry, but they also look like they'd make good weapons in a pinch - all those pointy bits and possibly sharp edges. Wink Elven leaders do tend to prefer circlets to sturdy helmets, don't they? And their particular helmets might mark them as The Leader, but the filmmakers would probably (and I would definitely) rather those beautiful cheekbones be on display.

And, yeah, everything about Thranduil is recognizable, he might as well use it all to intimidate and inspire, as appropriate.

RE: Weta books

I only just got my hands on "The Hobbit An Unexpected Journey Chronicles: Art and Design." (I found it dirt cheap at the local B&N,) SO gorgeous! And I was looking online for the Desolation of Smaug equivalent when I noticed that there's also a Chronicles II for Unexpected Journey: Creatures & Characters. So now, of course, I'm dying for a DoS:C&C, but if they keep to the same release schedule AUJ had, it'll be another year before it's available. Frown

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 27 2014, 8:16am


Views: 6754
     Love that first one!

Re-imaginings can be so confusing. Laugh

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


Kerewyn
Rohan


Apr 27 2014, 10:35am


Views: 6731
     Concept art for the King's armour

According to my 'text book', that is in fact concept art for the Elven Palace Guard. As designer Nick Keller says: "We arrived at something quite sinister and statuesque for the Elven palace guards.... I also quite liked the idea of partial, rather than full, helmets - like skull caps or masks, with veils that hid the face. They evoked a predatory bird-like quality."

And on the full masked pic you posted: "Until now Elves have always been friendly, but these guys are indifferent and superior. They're dangerous, so masking them makes them unreadable and more imposing."



Quote
Hey, speaking of helmets...Is it just me, or does it seem like a lot of the major characters in both LOTR or TH never wear a helmet into battle? Sure, there are exceptions to that rule, like Theoden, Eomer, Eowyn, and both Merry and Pippin at certain times. But other than them, I can think of a lot of important characters that don't wear a helmet even when they really should for the sake of their health.


I remember when this came up during LOTR discussion. Why is Aragorn not helmeted? And somewhere, I'm sure I recall PJ's answer: yes they should be, but the audience needs to instantly recognise their heroes, read the expression on their face etc. So, a departure from reality for the sake of movie-making. But it fits in too with what you say - "the leaders themselves obviously need to show their faces, or hair, and be a beacon to the troops."


Quote
Thank you! I am so tempted to get my own copies of the books... but they cost a pretty penny from the local bookstores, at least 50% on the price from the source. But if I order from the source, there's shipping


Yep, they are heavy. I'm going to weigh one right now on my kitchen scales.......... ok, 3 1/4 pounds, or almost 1.5 kilograms. Wow, 50% mark-up huh? Welcome to my world! (buying pretty much anything in Australia is an expensive exercise. Our books are generally very costy here, compared with the US. But then if we buy from Amazon, we're stung with postage that can be greater than the price of the item!)


Quote
And is it just me, or does the face in the sketch look like its based on dear Mr Pace?

Aha! Yes, I heard he did a fair bit of hiking while in NZ.

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today." (Dr Seuss)

(This post was edited by Kerewyn on Apr 27 2014, 10:37am)


Kerewyn
Rohan


Apr 27 2014, 10:58am


Views: 6751
     Three Chronicles released


Quote
I only just got my hands on "The Hobbit An Unexpected Journey Chronicles: Art and Design." (I found it dirt cheap at the local B&N,) SO gorgeous! And I was looking online for the Desolation of Smaug equivalent when I noticed that there's also a Chronicles II for Unexpected Journey: Creatures & Characters. So now, of course, I'm dying for a DoS:C&C, but if they keep to the same release schedule AUJ had, it'll be another year before it's available.


The second book you mention, Creatures and Characters, does not include concept art and drawings. It is photographic only, and I feel it is a companion to the Art & Design book - but if you're like me and have utterly digested the AUJ DvD appendices, there's nothing new you won't already have seen. But I do really like it as a coffee table book and the gorgeous photos, and of course the quotes from designers and crew.

My favourite is Chronicles III: The Desolation of Smaug, Art & Design. I have only just started reading it cover to cover (having already leapt ahead to indulge in the Mirkwood design first.) And I am looking forward to the design of Laketown. The book's red cover has a texture that is evocative of dragon skin.

There are due to be five books all up - the next one apparently deals entirely with the creation of Smaug. I hope there'll be a final Art & Design for TABA - I imagine there'll be a lot of weaponry.

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today." (Dr Seuss)


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 27 2014, 8:11pm


Views: 5157
     That reminds me...

One of Thranduil's lines that I hope he gets to keep in BOFA is that backhanded compliment that he gives Bilbo about the mithril coat. IIRC, it came just after Bilbo delivered the Arkenstone to him and Bard. I don't have the book nearby at the moment, but from memory I think it went something like,


Quote
"Bilbo Baggins, you are more deserving of that coat than those that have looked more comely in it!"


For some reason, that always tickles my funny bone!Laugh

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 27 2014, 9:41pm


Views: 5110
     Thank you for the description

It actually sounds like something I'd love, in spite of having watched all the AUJ extras too many times to number. (Glad I'm not alone in that. Tongue )


Quote
The second book you mention, Creatures and Characters, does not include concept art and drawings. It is photographic only, and I feel it is a companion to the Art & Design book - but if you're like me and have utterly digested the AUJ DvD appendices, there's nothing new you won't already have seen. But I do really like it as a coffee table book and the gorgeous photos, and of course the quotes from designers and crew.

Besides any new quotes from creators, I love having the photo stills. My eye doesn't always catch little details when they're in motion. In fact, I'll often miss really delightful, painfully obvious things if I haven't had the time to absorb it (as my warped mind allows).

But, right now I have the DoS: Art & Design book on order. Laugh (C&C will go on the next paycheck - if I don't happen across that new Smaug book at the local bookstore first.)

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 27 2014, 9:53pm


Views: 5137
     That's what we call Good Enough for Government Work

Which is actually (originally) more of a compliment than it sounds. Tongue

Replace "deserving of that coat than those" with "worthy to wear the amour of elf-princes than many." And I only know that because I do happen to have a copy of The Hobbit on the bookshelf beside me. You have an excellent memory.


I don't suppose you know why I'm suddenly Tehanu's Team and you're Corvar's Corsairs? Is this a Hunger Games sort of thing? If so, I'm bowing out now, I'm so obviously outclassed. Shocked



"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 28 2014, 2:47am


Views: 5109
     Lol. I know what you mean. My mom uses that phrase all the time


Quote
Replace "deserving of that coat than those" with "worthy to wear the amour of elf-princes than many." And I only know that because I do happen to have a copy of The Hobbit on the bookshelf beside me. You have an excellent memory.


Thank you! I've only read The Hobbit twice and my last reading was back in either late December or early January, so I'm now quite proud of myself that I remembered that line as well as I did.Smile When I wrote my post about it, I thought I had totally butchered it!Shocked


Quote
I don't suppose you know why I'm suddenly Tehanu's Team and you're Corvar's Corsairs? Is this a Hunger Games sort of thing? If so, I'm bowing out now, I'm so obviously outclassed. Shocked


Yes, I was wondering about that for awhile myself, but I found the answer in one of the Feedback threads. Nothing to do with the Hunger Games (ThankfullyWink). It's actually a special thing for Founder's Day. Tehanu, Corvar, Xoanon, and Calisuri are the names of the four original founders of theonering.net. (see pic below) Apparently, whoever is in charge of the member titles decided to play with them so that instead of the normal Middle Earth locations (I was in Rohan last time I checked), we have special titles that go with the names of the founders. Along with Tehanu's Team and Corvar's Corsairs, the other two titles that some people have are Calisuri's Crew and Xoanon's X-men.

They do this kind of this all the time on special occasions, just for fun.Smile I don't know if you were here then, but on April Fool's day, all of the titles got changed to the name of crew members from Star Trek. My title changed to Nyota Uhura, Enterprise's Communications Officer!Cool Anyway, it's all temporary and the titles will go back to normal once the Founder's Day festivities are over.



"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



(This post was edited by Eruvandi on Apr 28 2014, 2:51am)


Nimloth
Lorien


Apr 28 2014, 3:29am


Views: 5127
     That crown

I always thought this was an early concept crown that ultimately got changed to one we see in the film.

It would be nice to think that Feast of Firelight was filmed and may make it into the EE. I would prefer to see that than the tedious exchange between Fili and Tauriel down in the cells. Wink


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 28 2014, 4:09am


Views: 5139
     Ooh Cheekbones! Let's toss in Eyebrows And Lashes too

 All right! Welcome back! Smile

Quote
Since I don't seem to be making any headway on my "Laws and Customs" analysis (which started out as a search for reasons Tauriel would be an appropriate Captain of the Guard - or something along those lines - but has morphed into working out my personal head canon for Thranduil's Crazy Face moment), I might as well just jump back in...



Nope, not too much at all.

Quote
I would really love it if that turned out to be the case. I'd also like to see the complete outfit, the (outdoor?) throne, and maybe some of the ceremony he uses for a starlight festival. (I don't think that's asking too much. Tongue )



You mean these cheekbones?

(source)

*THUD*... and I think I got a bad bad case of eyelash envy to top it off.

And the jokes at his eyebrow game Tongue I confess to chortling too. But why do people go on about his brows? I think they suit the King to a T, don't you think?

Ahem... back to appreciation: this GIF (too big to copypasta here and I've not figured out how to reduce the size of a gif without compromising the image quality). Showcases the cheekbones, brows and lashes, plus that really enticing hint of a dimple.




Quote
Most of them do seem to be primarily for pageantry, but they also look like they'd make good weapons in a pinch - all those pointy bits and possibly sharp edges. Wink Elven leaders do tend to prefer circlets to sturdy helmets, don't they? And their particular helmets might mark them as The Leader, but the filmmakers would probably (and I would definitely) rather those beautiful cheekbones be on display.

And, yeah, everything about Thranduil is recognizable, he might as well use it all to intimidate and inspire, as appropriate.


Re: WETA books
I gotta step up my game and get my hands on them!

... and I found this! Precious, but I fear it is illegal to import weapons... *SOB*


PS: Care to weigh in the fingerbling?




Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Elciryamo
Rivendell

Apr 28 2014, 4:47am


Views: 5133
     Definitely the sword!


In Reply To
All right! Welcome back! Smile

Quote
Since I don't seem to be making any headway on my "Laws and Customs" analysis (which started out as a search for reasons Tauriel would be an appropriate Captain of the Guard - or something along those lines - but has morphed into working out my personal head canon for Thranduil's Crazy Face moment), I might as well just jump back in...



Nope, not too much at all.

Quote
I would really love it if that turned out to be the case. I'd also like to see the complete outfit, the (outdoor?) throne, and maybe some of the ceremony he uses for a starlight festival. (I don't think that's asking too much. Tongue )



You mean these cheekbones?

(source)

*THUD*... and I think I got a bad bad case of eyelash envy to top it off.

And the jokes at his eyebrow game Tongue I confess to chortling too. But why do people go on about his brows? I think they suit the King to a T, don't you think?

Ahem... back to appreciation: this GIF (too big to copypasta here and I've not figured out how to reduce the size of a gif without compromising the image quality). Showcases the cheekbones, brows and lashes, plus that really enticing hint of a dimple.




Quote
Most of them do seem to be primarily for pageantry, but they also look like they'd make good weapons in a pinch - all those pointy bits and possibly sharp edges. Wink Elven leaders do tend to prefer circlets to sturdy helmets, don't they? And their particular helmets might mark them as The Leader, but the filmmakers would probably (and I would definitely) rather those beautiful cheekbones be on display.

And, yeah, everything about Thranduil is recognizable, he might as well use it all to intimidate and inspire, as appropriate.


Re: WETA books
I gotta step up my game and get my hands on them!

... and I found this! Precious, but I fear it is illegal to import weapons... *SOB*


PS: Care to weigh in the fingerbling?



I certainly have been impressed by the Mirkwood weapon design, especially Thranduil's blade. It certainly works very well with his entourage.

Sorry to hear you can't import it :(


RandomSilvanElf
The Shire


Apr 28 2014, 9:35am


Views: 5092
     Second that!

 I'd love to see whimsical feasting elves instead of that scene. Dorwinion for all!

Quote
I always thought this was an early concept crown that ultimately got changed to one we see in the film.

It would be nice to think that Feast of Firelight was filmed and may make it into the EE. I would prefer to see that than the tedious exchange between Fili and Tauriel down in the cells. Wink


"At this time therefore the Sindar were well-armed, and they drove off an creatures of evil, and had peace again; but Thingol’'s armouries were stored with axes and with spears and swords, and tall helms, and long coats of bright mail (...) And that proved well for Thingol in the time that was to come…"

More of my opinionated scribbles http://betweenfictionandreality.wordpress.com

https://twitter.com/Elisabetta8i8 Follow me as I re-read my way through Silmarillion, Unfinished tales, Hobbit, Lord of the Rings and everything else that was written on Middle Earth.


RandomSilvanElf
The Shire


Apr 28 2014, 9:49am


Views: 5092
     <3 more Thranduil and Bilbo

 
Also in the book it was written, if I'm not mistaken, that Bilbo, during the battle ,decides to stand with the elves, because his inner Took has awakened and if he is to die, he rather die defending the noble Elvenking :) -it was so adorable of him, I would be crazy happy if they would emphasize that... although it doesn't seem likely, alas...


Quote
One of Thranduil's lines that I hope he gets to keep in BOFA is that backhanded compliment that he gives Bilbo about the mithril coat.


"At this time therefore the Sindar were well-armed, and they drove off an creatures of evil, and had peace again; but Thingol’'s armouries were stored with axes and with spears and swords, and tall helms, and long coats of bright mail (...) And that proved well for Thingol in the time that was to come…"

More of my opinionated scribbles http://betweenfictionandreality.wordpress.com

https://twitter.com/Elisabetta8i8 Follow me as I re-read my way through Silmarillion, Unfinished tales, Hobbit, Lord of the Rings and everything else that was written on Middle Earth.


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 28 2014, 11:18am


Views: 5074
     LOL

Don't imagine shuffling the lines and scenes around help either. Kingdom to run, reimaginings to keep straight... A ruler's day is never easily done is it?


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 28 2014, 11:53am


Views: 5093
     Thanks, Kerewyn! And the elite guard's training

Glad to know the truth behind the pics. Can't trust everything that's out there. Smile

The ideas of making the palace guard sinister and imposing, and going against the general impression about Elves are cool. Now I wonder: What gives them their superiority and danger? Are they the Mirkwoodian Delta Force? What training did they go through to get to wear the armour, and who dreamt up the "uniform"? How much of the whole deal were Thranduil's ideas? Does the King conduct any of the training/exercises/courses/selection procedures? Tongue

Quote
According to my 'text book', that is in fact concept art for the Elven Palace Guard. As designer Nick Keller says: "We arrived at something quite sinister and statuesque for the Elven palace guards.... I also quite liked the idea of partial, rather than full, helmets - like skull caps or masks, with veils that hid the face. They evoked a predatory bird-like quality."

And on the full masked pic you posted: "Until now Elves have always been friendly, but these guys are indifferent and superior. They're dangerous, so masking them makes them unreadable and more imposing."



Ouch! That is heavy! I'm about 7 hours north of you in Singapore, so I feel your pain. I went on a kitty-accessory Amazon shopping spree once, so much variety and so wallet-friendly even factoring in the exchange rate... until I got to checkout that is. I ended up cancelling everything because I'd have to pay US$2.50 shipping for every US$1 of stuff I bought...

I just remembered the biggest bookshop chain here, foreign as usual, usually have a sale in May/ June. I will have go and lurk around a bit and see if I can get away with some of these on discount.

Quote
Yep, they are heavy. I'm going to weigh one right now on my kitchen scales.......... ok, 3 1/4 pounds, or almost 1.5 kilograms. Wow, 50% mark-up huh? Welcome to my world! (buying pretty much anything in Australia is an expensive exercise. Our books are generally very costy here, compared with the US. But then if we buy from Amazon, we're stung with postage that can be greater than the price of the item!)



How does an Elf manage to stay incognito at all is what I wanna know Tongue

Quote
Aha! Yes, I heard he did a fair bit of hiking while in NZ.



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 28 2014, 12:08pm


Views: 5103
     Is this one of them? "The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug Chronicles: Cloaks & Daggers "

Getting a bit confused as to what is in the series now.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-hobbit-weta/1117658315?ean=9780062265708


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 28 2014, 12:59pm


Views: 5069
     Yeah, that dang sword

Hi there, Elciryamo!
WETA has definitely done themselves proud. I'm looking into the procedures and hoping for a way to get Thranduil's sword. Otherwise, I'd have to settle for the books, or a poster Laugh

Quote
I certainly have been impressed by the Mirkwood weapon design, especially Thranduil's blade. It certainly works very well with his entourage.

Sorry to hear you can't import it :(



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 28 2014, 1:03pm


Views: 5100
     Hopefully it's not a discarded design

Well, I would have thought an abandoned design wouldn't make it to the realisation stage? I'm just going by the rumour of the Feast of Starlight having been shot, this crown not in the TE, and the production's thinking to give Thranduil different costumes for different purposes/events. Fingers crossed!

Quote
I always thought this was an early concept crown that ultimately got changed to one we see in the film.



I'm with you there! Smile I wanna see the Mirkwood Elves do something other than being belligerent and militant.

Quote
It would be nice to think that Feast of Firelight was filmed and may make it into the EE. I would prefer to see that than the tedious exchange between Fili and Tauriel down in the cells. Wink



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 28 2014, 1:16pm


Views: 5107
     I hope they keep that and ...

that bit about knowing more about Dwarves and persuading Bilbo to stay.

Also, since the "attempted burglary" bit was co-opted into a part earlier than where it appeared in the book (Chapter 10, "A Warm Welcome"), I would like to see Thranduil saying the other bits in the paragraph, and resolving his seemingly jerk behaviour with Thorin in the confrontation. Because the Elvenking does know what he's saying, and he means what he says. Cool

"Very well! We'll see! No treasure will come back through Mirkwood without my having something to say in the matter. But I expect they will all come to a bad end, and serves them right!" He at any rate did not believe in dwarves fighting and killing dragons like Smaug, and he strongly suspected attempted burglary or something like that -- which shows he was a wise elf, and wiser than the men of the town...



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 28 2014, 3:06pm


Views: 5096
     I don't see why not


Quote
Also in the book it was written, if I'm not mistaken, that Bilbo, during the battle ,decides to stand with the elves, because his inner Took has awakened and if he is to die, he rather die defending the noble Elvenking :) -it was so adorable of him, I would be crazy happy if they would emphasize that... although it doesn't seem likely, alas...


We've already had that scene where Thranduil heard invisible Bilbo sneaking out of his chambers while he was talking to Tauriel. I feel like they wouldn't have bothered showing that if they weren't setting up later interaction between the two and that interaction could easily lead to Bilbo thinking that Thranduil is noble and that he should side with him during the battle.

Although, in the movie Thranduil currently doesn't want to get involved with the outside world, we know that something will move him to leave his realm and go to the mountain. Of course, I can't say for sure what will happen in BOFA but assuming that Thranduil continues with his current pattern of thought I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to say that he'll be like he was in the book and not want to start a war for gold (or the white gems). I'd say Bilbo would find that attitude pretty noble. And when the time for BO5A comes around, Bilbo will have to go with someone. I'm just saying...Smile

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



RandomSilvanElf
The Shire


Apr 28 2014, 3:15pm


Views: 5091
     So maybe there's a chance


Quote
We've already had that scene where Thranduil heard invisible Bilbo sneaking out of his chambers while he was talking to Tauriel.


I wonder if there's a chance that we will get more of sneaky Bilbo in EE, I'd love to see him exploring the Halls of Elvenking.

"At this time therefore the Sindar were well-armed, and they drove off an creatures of evil, and had peace again; but Thingol’'s armouries were stored with axes and with spears and swords, and tall helms, and long coats of bright mail (...) And that proved well for Thingol in the time that was to come…"

More of my opinionated scribbles http://betweenfictionandreality.wordpress.com

https://twitter.com/Elisabetta8i8 Follow me as I re-read my way through Silmarillion, Unfinished tales, Hobbit, Lord of the Rings and everything else that was written on Middle Earth.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 28 2014, 3:48pm


Views: 5051
     There's always hope

I'd like to see more sneaky Bilbo in the EE too.Smile

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 28 2014, 3:59pm


Views: 5072
     Can't...Breathe...

Too much fabulousness in one post! Cheekbones and eyebrows and eyelashes, Oh my! Squeeeee! *thud*

*gets up off the floor and takes a deep breath*

Sorry about that. I had a little Thrandy-overload moment. I'm better now. LolLaugh

This is one of those times when I desperately wish that someone important who works on the Hobbit movies was lurking on these boards so they could see how much Thranduil is appreciated and put more of him in the movie. Unsure *sigh*

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



vanima ephel
Rivendell


Apr 28 2014, 11:25pm


Views: 5060
     So much pretty

 Fingerbling!

The Snake Ring



(@ The Noble Collection )

The Crystal Ring



(@ The Noble Collection )

The Woodland Ring



(@ The Noble Collection )

The Mirkwood Ring



(@ The Noble Collection )

They look quite different up close - compared to the 'group photo' you originally posted:



The website says they're all made of sterling silver (and the snake ring is also gold plated). Weta isn't mentioned, but I'm going to have to assume they used production photos, at least, because they do claim a "dedication" to "authenticity."

I love the Snake Ring. (If only I had an extra 150 USD laying around. Unsure) The first thing to jump to my mind looking at it is the Adam and Eve story. (Thranduil = temptation!) Of course, snake symbolism is endless. A list from one of the first sites that came up for me:


Quote
Androgyny, circle, convalescence, cunning, danger, death, deceit, destruction, divine emanation, evil, false appearance fertility, guardianship, generation, grief, health, intelligence, jealousy, lasciviousness, malice, materialism, misfortune, phallus, pleasure, power, prophecy, prudence, renewal, revenge, self- creation self -indulgence, self -sustenance sensation, sensuality, sin, subtlety, temptation, treachery, the unfathomable, universe circle, vexations, vice, wiliness, wisdom worldliness. Emblem of lightning, physicians, witchcraft.

What trait - or combination - do you think best fits?. Tongue And it looks to me like there's more than one snake making up the body of the ring, so there could be more than one ring there, fitted together like a puzzle. (The Noble version is likely one solid piece, I'm just speculating about the kind of bling I imagine Thranduil himself having.)

I don't know what to say about the Woodland ring and the Mirkwood ring. Before and after examples of the realm, perhaps? As the one looks a bit like simple brambles while the other looks like pockmarked, diseased brambles (and a bit snake-y besides). *shrugs*

I like the Crystal ring, though it looks a bit spidery, like that broach, so I probably wouldn't wear it, myself. (That's at least 300 USD saved!) I wonder what kind of crystal it's supposed to be. It looks milky, but could be clear. Quartz, maybe? Aaaaaannd, symbolism/meaning/uses for quartz, you ask?:


Quote

In the metaphysical world, Clear Quartz crystals are the supreme gift of Mother Earth. Even the smallest is imbued with the properties of a master healer teacher. Ancients believed these stones to be alive, taking a breath once every hundred years or so, and many cultures thought them to be incarnations of the Divine.

Today's healers agree, believing crystals are living beings, incredibly old and wise, and willing to communicate when an individual is open and ready to receive. Wearing, carrying or meditating with a Clear Quartz crystal opens the mind and heart to higher guidance, allowing the realm of Spirit to be transmitted and translated into the world of physical form.


Maybe that's why Thranduil is so hot to get those White Gems? Laugh

I would really love to hear LP's history for them. Who do we need to talk to, to make that happen?


"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."

(This post was edited by vanima ephel on Apr 28 2014, 11:39pm)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 29 2014, 2:26am


Views: 5029
     Good point, Eruvandi. And RandonSilvanElf: there's got to be hope!

The films may depart from the book and change stuff about, but whatever unhappiness bookfans have with PJ's take, I don't think anyone can disagree that the films do go in the general direction of the book plotline.

My $0.02: I want Thranduil's dialogue with Bilbo after the Battle, where he names Bilbo elf-friend and Bilbo gifts him with the gems will have to be in - for proper closure and to demonstrate Bilbo's friendship with the Elves is a universal one, rather than geography-specific to west of the Misties, and all the implications that extend beyond TH. For that scene to have the impact, the context of Bilbo sneaking around the Realm got to be better represented than just the near brush with Thranduil we got in the DoS TE.


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 29 2014, 2:41am


Views: 5047
     Well, if I were THAT lurker, there'd be a lot to ponder: Is Thranduil appreciated?

Putting myself in those shoes: Glancing at the list of the posts in the appreciation threads, I'd just wonder if we've simply got a handful of Thranduil fanciers who are just OCD on re-reading the appreciation bits Tongue After all, there's a decent number of views, but the responses tend to be from the usual suspects (except for the blimp with the Orkish mini-discussion). Quite an anomalous phenomenon. I'd wonder what happened to the founders and first thread thralls? Did the Thranduil glamour fade? But then, on the other hand, the appreciation does seem to have longevity. This is quite the lull, the quiet before the marketing machinery rev up again. So the thread's activity is interesting in itself. No other character, even the rival king, has got an active appreciation thread or if they do, there's no multi-thread continuity of it.

Very interesting just from an analytical standpoint (sorry, analysis is an occupational quirk of lil old me).

And oh yes, for myself: Thranduil overload-moment. We got so little of him in the 2 films and yet there's all these moments. I sure hope the powers that be get the message and unleash MWOAR! Thranduil-moment THUDs.Sly


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 29 2014, 2:46am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 29 2014, 2:58am


Views: 5047
     The Theory of Bling

I like your ideas and observations about the rings. *ahem* my further exposition on the bling here. Between you and me, I think we might have the beginnings of a thesis here Tongue I'll see if I can collate it all later.



I have no idea. Write to LP himself? We could request an audience for research purposes. Evil

Quote
I would really love to hear LP's history for them. Who do we need to talk to, to make that happen?




Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 29 2014, 3:29am


Views: 5056
     PS I thought this was cute

Graphics: LP Roles

Wonder when we'll actually get to see Ronan in action.


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Nimloth
Lorien


Apr 29 2014, 3:43am


Views: 5031
     You never know...


In Reply To

This is one of those times when I desperately wish that someone important who works on the Hobbit movies was lurking on these boards so they could see how much Thranduil is appreciated and put more of him in the movie. Unsure *sigh*


I understand that PJ himself has been known to read these message boards. So you never know.........

When Del Toro was director he used to post on here occasionally, which was a real treat. Cool


Kerewyn
Rohan


Apr 29 2014, 8:06am


Views: 6221
     Cloaks & Daggers - the 5th Chronicle!!!

Oooh! *squeee* I hadn't seen that one yet! It looks like it will be the final book. What a beautiful cover!
Says there that it will be released on July 8th, so that's the pre-order page.

And I didn't realise the Smaug book had been released on April 19. (I am on the Weta newsletter but it went into my spam box)

Here's a link showing its cover, http://www.wetanz.com/...leashing-the-dragon/
and if you scroll down, you can see all the three previous covers as well.
I've been really liking the landscape format of the books. 'Smaug' is the more common portrait, but it probably suits.

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today." (Dr Seuss)


Kerewyn
Rohan


Apr 29 2014, 10:36am


Views: 6229
     The concept crown


In Reply To
Well, I would have thought an abandoned design wouldn't make it to the realisation stage?


I dunno. Looks like many designs made it all the way to the shoot, only to be rejected by PJ because they just weren't working out right for him, once on screen. The goblins were apparently designed under pressure with only weeks to go. And there was Azog - from real back to digital.

This crown may well have been rejected. But then again, there is no discussion of it in the 'textbook', which may be a good sign. Perhaps it will appear in 'cloaks and daggers' (see my post above) if we can take 'cloaks' to mean more costuming discussion.

Am loving the rings posts. The possibility of two snakes locking together reminds me of the interlocking Russian wedding ring.

And oh, those graphics. The Possession one reminded me of how I went THUD. (So. Hot. In.That)

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today." (Dr Seuss)


Kerewyn
Rohan


Apr 29 2014, 10:42am


Views: 6246
     Speakling of abandoned designs...

...I have been meaning to post this one. They actually made it!! How I'd love to see it on Lee. And look, that crown is worn too.



"Though not in the final film, we designed and created a pale bone costume for the prologue sequence of the first film, made of suede with a torso done in relief showing the skull of an elk like the one he rides." Ann Maskrey, Costume Designer.

'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today." (Dr Seuss)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 29 2014, 1:39pm


Views: 6227
     Cool

Here's hoping then

Quote
I understand that PJ himself has been known to read these message boards. So you never know.........



Wonder how different Del Toro's Thranduil would have been from the one we got. Hell Boy's Nuada was great for that story, and there are parallels, but I always thought he might have quite the job differentiating ME Elves from the ones in Hell Boy.

Quote
When Del Toro was director he used to post on here occasionally, which was a real treat.



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 29 2014, 1:41pm


Views: 6212
     Aha... so all 5 have surfaced then?

Gotta start plotting my collection scheme.

hmmm... but what about BotFA? Another one in the pipeline?


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 29 2014, 2:00pm


Views: 6189
     oh... right

I forgot about the changes the orcs went through. Here's hoping though! And fingers crossed on the "Cloaks" in "Cloaks and Daggers" Smile


Oooh. Gonna look that up! Thanks.

Quote
The possibility of two snakes locking together reminds me of the interlocking Russian wedding ring.



I've got a few more fanart linkies... coming up shortly.

Quote
And oh, those graphics.



I just saw that. Truly THUDDEROUS. Loved his build in it, and what a badboy! Pity the story couldn't decide whether it was thriller or romance. The way it was marketed made me think it might wear its Korean DNA on its sleeves and be like a Ju-on. But it turned out to be such a harmless kitten. Actually, I tend to avoid anything that might have the scares due to a childhood thingy that still results in nightmares if I watch any even now. (I can't even do any Walking Dead episodes in one sitting, I keep puttering about and irritating the hell out of my family -- don't judge!) My sis, who believes I need to do the shock therapy of watching horrors, was so surprised I took the chance with Possession that she said Lee Pace ought to star in a few slasher flicks cos clearly that's the only cure for me Tongue

Quote
The Possession one reminded me of how I went THUD. (So. Hot. In.That)






Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 29 2014, 2:03pm


Views: 6193
     Maybe in the *drumroll* extras?

Or one of the Chronicles?

That looks cool! There oughta be a costume fitting pic laying around?Smile


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 29 2014, 2:14pm


Views: 6257
     Fanart: Father and Son


(source)


Let's get something clear:


And there are a few OTHER things people ought to know about Thranduil Smile


Oh, here's another bit: little LotR and tH (This group of fanart is really sugary cute!)


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 29 2014, 3:00pm


Views: 6193
     Cute!

I totally forgot that LP is going to be Ronan the Accuser. I've wondered why we haven't seen him in action yet. (Have to admit, LP is the only reason I have any interest in Guardians of the Galaxy whatsoeverUnsure) Ronan's supposed to be totally blue right? *That* should be interesting to see!Tongue

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 29 2014, 4:11pm


Views: 6220
     Oooh...All very nice!

And I agree: Thranduil does NOT abuse Legolas, and those pieces of "art" that I've seen that suggest he did/does irk me something awful. *snort, growl*Mad IIRC, in the DOS movie guide, LP specifically said that elven children are treasured and protected throughout their long childhood.

That chibi style drawing on things you might want to know about Thranduil actually does a good job of summing up who he is and why he acts the way that he does. Short, sweet and to the point.Smile

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 30 2014, 9:15am


Views: 6153
     Yup. True blue. And totally hidden under facepaint and facial prosthetics

viola~ only glimpse in the official trailer (wait, am I suppose to guess who's Ronan?), glimpse from Marvel's feature (oh boy, am I seeing the pattern here..), filming screencap

And those are the best looks we've got so far. As my sis says, you can't see sh*t Tongue They've really kept Ronan under wraps, and I suspect they realise the contrast between Ronan and Thranduil, not just in looks but in character as well, and probably wanna play off of that in some way.

Actually toy Ronan is the best view we've got of the character. For balance, a castmates phot with them all out of character.

Oh, for relevance Sly



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 30 2014, 9:28am


Views: 6190
     Tumblr is painful but its really like the clearing house of the Thranduil faniverse... and a few more fanarts

That site can be a pure despair inducing nightmare - all that shipping and pairing, especially the wonky ones, and all the head-canon stuff. I don't like the bleepbleep there but it is a really serviceable aggregator of all things fannish. And when I find these little gems, it gives me hope that maybe we're not headed for abject doom Tongue


Oooh, that's nice! Do you remember the context of this bit? I was abit concerned when I read one interview where he said something like Thranduil is not the best father for Legolas. We still have BotFA but I really hope that doesn't mean we're gonna get some strange father-son dynamics. Crazy

Quote
IIRC, in the DOS movie guide, LP specifically said that elven children are treasured and protected throughout their long childhood.



Yeah, pleasant surprise ain't it?

Quote
That chibi style drawing on things you might want to know about Thranduil actually does a good job of summing up who he is and why he acts the way that he does. Short, sweet and to the point.Smile



Here's a few more of Father and Son fanart, in contemporary gear too (All from the same artist)
  • A bit too rockstar in vibe but well rendered: 1, 2, 3
  • A sweet modern tech one: 4

Smile


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 30 2014, 9:36am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 30 2014, 10:12am


Views: 6251
     Cross-over talk, In celebration of Andy Serkis being in the new Star Wars trilogy

(Ref: the Andy Serkis in the new Star Wars trilogy announcement on TORn)


Hey, this is THE legendary swordsman after all. No problem even if the blade runs on batteries Tongue

(source)


So, do you have other fandoms where you see Thranduil taking on the world with the same dispassioned cool? Or perhaps Lee Pace taking on a particular character? My short impromptu list includes, in no order of relevance or particular reason... anyway, I could be the only fan of these here but Tongue
  • Thranduil could grind Sephiroth from Final Fantasy IIV: Advent Children into the ground. After all, Sephiroth is basically an avatar. Either that or take his place as THE S.O.L.D.I.E.R. of the world (Pic here)
  • Lee Pace could definitely handle the role of Andrew Wiggin, The Speaker for the Dead (if they can't wait for Asa Butterfield, the current Ender Wiggins to grow up that id. Info about Ender's Game here)
  • Lee Pace as Superman... just cos of that episode in Pushing Daises (GIF). But Thranduil could crush this too, that is if he decides he likes red and blue in his wardrobe.
  • Howl, from Howl's Moving Castle (info here). Just cos...
  • Dream/Morpheus from Neil Gaiman's Sandman (Info here) Yeah... if this is being movified as been rumoured forever, this role would be the daddy of cool... after Thranduil of course.



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Apr 30 2014, 10:17am)


BlackFox
Half-elven


Apr 30 2014, 5:05pm


Views: 6186
     Have you, guys, seen this cool pic of Thranduil?

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/...s/8/88/Thranduil.jpg


"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." - Henry David Thoreau


BlackFox
Half-elven


Apr 30 2014, 5:06pm


Views: 6141
     Sorry, I couldn't help myself... //

 


"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." - Henry David Thoreau


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 30 2014, 5:18pm


Views: 6138
     *eye-roll*

Tongue

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Nimloth
Lorien


Apr 30 2014, 8:06pm


Views: 6146
     LOL //

 


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Apr 30 2014, 9:16pm


Views: 6127
     Cool

Amazing how well Thranduil and Legolas translate to modern clothing, but I like that fourth one the best. What would you call that, an elf-y selfie? LolWink

Well, I only read the DOS movie guide a couple of times, several months ago when I checked it out at the library, but I think that bit was in a two page section where LP was talking about elven culture in general.

I don't think there's any cause for concern even if Thranduil isn't the "best" father for Legolas. IMO there's a difference between not being the "best" father and being a "bad" father. Thranduil might not exactly be the most affectionate elf, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't love Legolas or that he didn't do his best to raise him. Also, the dynamic between an adult child and his parents is often different from when child was younger because the child is independent and able to make decisions that don't align with his parent's beliefs. That doesn't mean that the parent and child don't still love each other. There may be some tense moments between Legolas and Thranduil in BOFA since Leggy (and Tauriel disobeyed orders and left the kingdom, but I really, really, really, hope we'll get a nice father/son moment(s) in there somewhere too. Maybe Legolas will even call Thranduil Ada at some point? I think that would be nice.Smile

Quote
Oooh, that's nice! Do you remember the context of this bit? I was abit concerned when I read one interview where he said something like Thranduil is not the best father for Legolas. We still have BotFA but I really hope that doesn't mean we're gonna get some strange father-son dynamics. Crazy


I found a couple of nice pieces of Thranduil fan-art yesterday. The first one apparently took the artist, MellorianJ, only 30 minutes to do. Pretty good IMO. Especially since I couldn't draw anything that nice in 30 days, much less 30 minutes!Tongue MellorianJ also a whole bunch of nice portraits of other Tolkien elves, if you'd like to check them out too.

This second one is great too. I think it's really pretty with the tree branch and stars in the background.Smile

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 1 2014, 12:23am


Views: 6148
     Context, Blackfox, context

Discussed with vanima a little in the second thread, starting here Tongue

Here's the mainpoint:





(source)

Thranduil to himself: "It must be cast into the fiery chasm from whence it came. No one else can ever know!"



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



elf-lady
Rivendell

May 1 2014, 12:33am


Views: 6149
     That face in the last pic you posted...

...Lurker, I'm trying not to faint. LOL. Thranduil looks so intent there.

I'm back from another business trip and find this thread has moved so fast! I even clicked the "Watch Thread" button but am not getting any alerts.


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 1 2014, 12:51am


Views: 6116
     Parental guidance

Just Elfie. It's self-explanatory Cool

Quote
What would you call that, an elf-y selfie?



Thanks for answering the question about the context for that bit from LP.

Righto Smile Just that LP comes across as being earnest discussing his characters and you know how PJ likes to add twists and tension. Realistically, I'm with you and logically it makes sense since this is a mature elven father-son pair and one unique one at that, but there's still a little odd little twinge somewhere just cos its PJ you know Laugh Ah well, I guess we'll know when we get to December.

Quote
IMO there's a difference between not being the "best" father and being a "bad" father.



You're right of course. I don't think there's any doubt that Thranduil loves Legolas. Being dispassionate doesn't mean he's got no passion. Just that he's not demonstrative with his emotions. Afterall, "Cuddliest Elf in Middle-earth" is Legolas' job Tongue Whatever the movie makes of Thranduil, I still feel that PJ and gang can't get too far away from the basics, and it would be totally out of the basic elven construct to be anything but a parent who does right by his kids. The adult parent-child relationship gets complicated enough as it is. The longevity of the elves, the dedication needed to bring a child into being, and the devotion to raise the kid right... it's interesting how that must add tension and complexity to the elven parent-child relationship. On the flip-side, it surely also accentuates and intensifies the positive emotions because they have so much more time to understand each other.

It should be safe to say, at least for Thranduil's Thralls, nice father/son moment(s) are eagerly anticipated and having Legolas call Thranduil "Ada" will be starlight on white gems.

Quote
Thranduil might not exactly be the most affectionate elf, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't love Legolas or that he didn't do his best to raise him. Also, the dynamic between an adult child and his parents is often different from when child was younger because the child is independent and able to make decisions that don't align with his parent's beliefs. That doesn't mean that the parent and child don't still love each other. There may be some tense moments between Legolas and Thranduil in BOFA since Leggy (and Tauriel disobeyed orders and left the kingdom, but I really, really, really, hope we'll get a nice father/son moment(s) in there somewhere too. Maybe Legolas will even call Thranduil Ada at some point? I think that would be nice.Smile



Re Fanart you found
I like the second one. First one is impressive for the accuracy in characteristics in 30mins. I've not doodled forevah, and even when I did, I couldn't do things that fast, so that impressed me a lot.


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 1 2014, 12:57am


Views: 6092
     Heheh

Welcome back, elf-lady!

I had a big guffaw when I found that little strip. But I just had to add that riposte. Glad you enjoyed it. Smile


Yeah, I find the alerts don't always work for me either.

Quote
I even clicked the "Watch Thread" button but am not getting any alerts



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 1 2014, 1:01am


Views: 6123
     Fanart: Young Thranduil in forest gear

and with bow too! Guess that's where Legolas got his fashion sense Smile

Link


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



vanima ephel
Rivendell


May 1 2014, 3:04am


Views: 6131
     Bling: The Laws and Customs Edition (sorta)

The two rings on his right hand (the Mirkwood ring and the Woodland ring):

As we're speculating pretty wildly on this topic, I'm going to be contrary and (sorta) stick with the color coding given in the "Laws and Customs." Tongue

I equate a betrothal ring with an engagement ring, and in my experience they tend to become the constant companion of the wedding ring (even after the death of the spouse). So, in my mind it makes sense for Thranduil to hang onto both as proof of an engagement very kept, even after his wife's death. (I'm a sap that way.) This would require that he either remove her ring from her body before any funeral rites were performed OR that some extreme circumstance left no body (either a truly dreadful death, or a disappearance or abandonment with the ring purposely left behind).

Whatever the circumstance that led to Thranduil being (apparently) alone, I'd still say the Mirkwood ring represents the Mirk that has overtaken much of his kingdom: that would be his betrothal ring, showing his spiritual state. So, the Woodland ring is hers, and it retains the purity that was Greenwood the Great. (For no good reason, I've always assumed Legolas's mother was a Silvan Elf - something I like to think would give her a more direct connection to the forest. And, yeah, it seems kind of unlikely in the movie verse, given Thranduil's apparent prejudice against them. Unless... She was a Silvan Elf and the circumstances of her demise or disappearance led Thranduil to create a divide between the two populations. Dun-Dun-Duuuuun!)

The gold ring on his left hand (the Snake ring):

I really like the idea of interlocking rings, and interlocking wedding rings strikes me as really romantic, so I'm (sorta) going with the "Laws and Customs" again and saying this gold ring is both Thranduil's and his wife's wedding rings, being worn by him as one. Heart

Signet ring? (the Crystal ring):

I don't picture a signet ring having such a smooth surface. It could, however, have some kind of magic to it that would leave an Elfin mark. Or maybe it has some other arcane property that Thranduil likes to keep handy. Or maybe he just likes having something shiny to flash around. Cool

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


BlackFox
Half-elven


May 1 2014, 9:20am


Views: 6104
     Hahaha!

This is too funny... Laugh


"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." - Henry David Thoreau


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 1 2014, 3:00pm


Views: 6869
     Oooh, more fingerbling theorising

The two rings on his right hand (the Mirkwood ring and the Woodland ring):
I like that we both agree these rings may be a His and Hers set. Smile Also, the canon(?) colour theme idea is as good anchor as we can get but my question is about the symbolisms of the Forest in these rings. I do like the idea of the Mirkwood ring representing the shadow on the Forest, but then, if the two rings are a betrothal set, why would they not look more similar? Also, the idea of what the ring stands for would be dating the betrothal to post mirkification, circa TA1050. Betrothal is usually a happy occasion (and i imagine Thranduil's to be.. unless it was a political arrangement, but I don't see the necessity of that in Thranduil's history), and it seems rather counter-intuitive to want to feature the ominous portent of the mirk in his betrothal ring. But, if we bring in the Fisher King and Oberon influence, then it makes sense that his spiritual state could be embodied in his betrothal ring. Still, what about her ring? By the same token, she would also be affected by the mirkification, granted it would not be to the extent or intensity of Thranduil but she would still be alarmed and concerned (maybe that's why she upped and went West by the time Bilbo came avisiting?), and maybe her ring would then be a bit more mirkish as well. If the purity of the Woodland ring represents her, then I would assume she may be a bit more robust in mental/spiritual constitution than the Silvan would be, and therefore she may be one of the Sindar in Oropher's original entourage, or had she given her heart to Thranduil way before Oropher uprooted his posse (which would support the idea of her going West as being more likely)?

Also, with the linking of the betrothal to the mirkification seems to date the betrothal rather later than the event ought be. I'm in the camp of Thranduil being alive in Doriath, so I see him as a very nice catch for some lucky Elf-lady early on. I've not refamiliarised myself with pre-TA events so I'm might change my tune later but for now, I'm assuming that early life for Thranduil was par for course for young Elf-lords and he'd fall in love pretty on track with usual Elven life-time events markers. So I would still give her the connection to the forest, just from the presumed length of assimilation.


The gold ring on his left hand (the Snake ring):
In keeping with the sycophanting, me too! Likes the idea about Thranduil wearing 2 rings as one muchly. But in deference to the L&C, marriage rings are work on the right index. Why would Thranduil be wearing these rings on his left ring finger then? Is it as Eruvandi speculated, a message of bereavement? To pre-empt unwanted interest? But I still feel that there's no need for Thranduil to change the finger wearing those rings (especially when there are also the betrothal rings on display), because it would be a moot point - if he is wearing two wedding rings, the message is already obvious in itself, plus he is well-known enough he should not need to make an overt effort to send a message.


Signet ring? (the Crystal ring):
LOL It is rather flashily eye-catching. But I feel that Thranduil, at least movie Thranduil, is a bit like Batman in the sense of economy and purpose in everything he does and don so I think that ring is more than just pretty bling. I am rather taken with the idea that this ring might be magical so I will continue to run with my theory it might be some sort of minor ring of power Thranduil inherited from Oropher since there are not many of those laying around, and I imagine Oropher might have procured it early in the gem-envy game if nothing else.





Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on May 1 2014, 3:01pm)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 1 2014, 3:05pm


Views: 6865
     Isn't it though

Thank goodness I do not have photoshop and time... Tongue


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 1 2014, 3:07pm


Views: 6873
     Fanart: Father and Son (The OTHER pair)

Thranduil as son Smile


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 1 2014, 3:14pm


Views: 6908
     If you love the book and love that Thranduil vs Thorin scene, you'll love this

You like this but maybe want to see if it works if it stuck closer to the book?


You'll love this series of GIFs then. I did Smile


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on May 1 2014, 3:15pm)


elf-lady
Rivendell

May 1 2014, 3:46pm


Views: 6883
     Because we were starving!

Oh boy LOL.


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 2 2014, 1:37am


Views: 6837
     Authenticity of canon lavished with loving movie! aesthetics was the perfect entree eh?

The GIFs are good, aren't they? Smile


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 2 2014, 3:08am


Views: 6834
     Tumblr Buzz: Seems like Lee Pace will be at Comic Con, San Diego

Don't know how real this is since I usually do quick incursions and leave as fast as I can Tongue but I saw the notice in different tumblrs

For relevance



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies"


(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on May 2 2014, 3:09am)


Kerewyn
Rohan


May 2 2014, 7:46am


Views: 6836
     Other LP roles

Now THAT is an idea I like a lot!


Quote
Dream/Morpheus from Neil Gaiman's Sandman




And Howl. Very yes to that too.

Hmm, will have to consider my fandoms....



Quote
Seems like Lee Pace will be at Comic Con, San Diego



Really? Wow! I'd heard Lee is not so keen on the public appearances -- or was it that he didn't attend any of the premieres? So he must have been persuaded. His appearance will be HUGE. If it's true. If I weren't already committed to another trip later in the year, I would be thinking about a holiday in the US right now.




'O' is very useful. You use it when you say... "Oscar's only ostrich oiled an orange owl today." (Dr Seuss)

(This post was edited by Kerewyn on May 2 2014, 7:56am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 2 2014, 12:52pm


Views: 6837
     Fandoms and Public Appearances

*SQUEE* another Howl fan!

*Double-squee* Sandman too! Yay! Do you read Gaiman's novels? Actually, if ethnicity wasn't such an factor, I'd like to see his take of Fat Charlie Nancy Sly


I'm truly not sure whether the news is good - I did a quick google and didn't see it anywhere else - but it seemed like the Lee Pace tumblr-sphere was lighting up about it. I wouldn't know how to navigate a con at all, but if I could hack it and get a July US trip going, this it would be as a good reason to get conventioning Tongue

He was mostly absent from DOS promo duties right? About time he put his back into it and did his part. Seriously. I do hope this means Thranduil is getting more time in BotFA.

Quote
Really? Wow! I'd heard Lee is not so keen on the public appearances -- or was it that he didn't attend any of the premieres? So he must have been persuaded. His appearance will be HUGE. If it's true. If I weren't already committed to another trip later in the year, I would be thinking about a holiday in the US right now.



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on May 2 2014, 12:53pm)


elf-lady
Rivendell

May 2 2014, 1:40pm


Views: 6829
     Lee Pace at Comic Con?

How awesome. I haven't been to a Comic Con since 2003 and can still remember standing in line forever to get into the hall for the Return of the King panel. I understand the crowds are now many times larger than they were just 10 years ago and I just hate being surrounded by so many people!


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 2 2014, 2:12pm


Views: 6833
     Did anyone notice this in that TORn homepage article titled "Collecting The Precious – Vanderstelt Studio The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug Print Up For Sale"

In that embedded pic (TORn article link here), if you look at the area to the left of Thorin, below his face...


(Sorry for being so spammy today. I'll get offline now)


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on May 2 2014, 2:13pm)


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


May 2 2014, 3:37pm


Views: 6828
     To both Kerewyn and Lurker


Quote
Seems like Lee Pace will be at Comic Con, San Diego

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!LaughLaughLaugh Since I can't go in person (being in college and having to take summer courses is not conducive to cross-country trips from Virginia to California) TORn must do a live stream from SDCC! They MUST!! I beg them!!Shocked



Quote
Kerewyn: Really? Wow! I'd heard Lee is not so keen on the public appearances -- or was it that he didn't attend any of the premieres? So he must have been persuaded. His appearance will be HUGE. If it's true. If I weren't already committed to another trip later in the year, I would be thinking about a holiday in the US right now.

Lurker: He was mostly absent from DOS promo duties right? About time he put his back into it and did his part. Seriously. I do hope this means Thranduil is getting more time in BotFA.

Lee showed up for the AUJ premier in New Zealand and he was at that live Hobbit Fan Even back in November. I don't know if it's true or not, but I heard he wasn't at the DOS premier because he was busy filming a TV pilot ("Halt and Catch Fire" maybe? Source) down in Georgia. Still, I agree that he didn't do nearly enough in relation to promo for DOS and I hope his appearance at SDCC means we'll see a lot more of him for TAB--...I mean, BOFA (still getting used to that.Crazy)

Actually, I have to wonder: Is Lee showing up at SDCC for BOFA or for Guardians of the Galaxy? He's in both of them, and Guardians comes out before BOFA does. I guess we can just hope he's doing double duty...

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


May 2 2014, 4:03pm


Views: 6842
     Aaaaand his butt is facing the camera again

And so is Leggy's...again. Seems the only Mirkwood elf who hasn't done the "hot girl" pose yet is Tauriel!Tongue

If you don't know what I'm talking about, look at just about every Sci-fi and Fantasy movie poster you can find...Notice how the girls are almost always standing with their butt facing the camera while looking over their shoulder, while all the guys are facing forward. This is called by many people the "hot girl" pose, yet you notice that none of the Hobbit female elves have been subjected to it...But the male elves sure have!Wink

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



vanima ephel
Rivendell


May 3 2014, 3:47am


Views: 6813
     If LP is going to Comic Con, maybe someone can ask him directly what his Bling Backstory is...

Because I'd probably just go along with whatever he says. Heart (I'm weak that way.)

Re: the two right hand rings

I am kind of leaning on the Fisher King idea for both of these rings. I'm imagining they started out looking alike (and maybe nothing like what either of the look like now) and as evil has started to encroach on his lands (and fear has continued to grow in his heart) Thranduil's ring has become corrupted, but I imagine that she has gone on to the Grey Havens, and so her ring may have changed, but it hasn't become corrupted.

I haven't really looked closely at what time frame would make the most sense for their marriage, but I really like the theory that puts Legolas's age during the War of the RIng at somewhere between 600 and 900 years (mostly because he seemed to be characterized as very young in the LotR books), and since Tolkien said an Elfin marriage usually produced few children early on, I have to believe that Thranduil probably lost his wife relatively recently. (And I know I'm probably wrong in all of this, but I'm stubborn that way. Tongue )

Re: the gold ring

I'm going to assume Thranduil is at least as contrary as I am (when he wants to be) and I do like Eruvandi's idea about bereavement, so overall I see the placement as a way to draw attention to it and dare anyone to say anything.

Re: the signet ring

Yes! A ring of power doesn't have to be one of Sauron's rings (and Elfin royals have always been drawn to silmaril-like gems and jewelry).


"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 3 2014, 7:51am


Views: 6796
     Live-stream!!!

Oh that is a MUST!


I did a bit of nosing around about his premiere attendance/promo duties. Seems like he missed Lincoln and Twilight the previous year due to work commitments too. Don't the marketing people or whoever's in charge work schedules to make sure this doesn't happen? Or was he not contractually obligated to attend those since his parts were small in those 2? Anyway, I would like to see the whole cast back together for the last Hurrah regardless. Seems like it will be a bash in every sense of the word.

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Lee showed up for the AUJ premier in New Zealand and he was at that live Hobbit Fan Even back in November. I don't know if it's true or not, but I heard he wasn't at the DOS premier because he was busy filming a TV pilot ("Halt and Catch Fire" maybe? Source) down in Georgia. Still, I agree that he didn't do nearly enough in relation to promo for DOS and I hope his appearance at SDCC means we'll see a lot more of him for TAB--...I mean, BOFA (still getting used to that.Crazy)



GotG comes out Aug 1, doesn't it? Wouldn't they be busy with premiere red-carpets and interviews rather than attending Cons already? Either way, I'd take it Smile

Quote
Actually, I have to wonder: Is Lee showing up at SDCC for BOFA or for Guardians of the Galaxy? He's in both of them, and Guardians comes out before BOFA does. I guess we can just hope he's doing double duty...



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 3 2014, 8:02am


Views: 6808
     Was there a prior shot with his back to camera? And sexism in movie marketing

Or did you mean this? Wink


I know what you mean. I read sf/fantasy and book covers tend to make me go Crazy especially in my long-lost youth. I like the so-called guy movies too (action, superhero, war, sf/fantasy), and to this day, those movie posters make me go doubly Crazy What? Don't us girls, granted a minority, who pay the same money to enjoy the guy-targetted movie, get to have a decent promo poster to look at? But in tH's case, it seems like the marketing dept decided Back-to-Cam shots of the hot male Elves is warranted to attract female attention, given the genre, and the hirsute-heavy focus of the Dwarves? Its like sexism in reverse. After all this time having to deal with the norm (though I still find myself going "What, can't girls just want to enjoy fantasy/action/battle" on its own merit?), I'd say it's a welcome change Smile


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 3 2014, 8:20am


Views: 6906
     Does TORn take questions with them when they attend?

Best resource to call upon for this cause, wouldn't you say?Smile

Re: the two right hand rings
So living rings that adapt according to the wearer's mood? Why not? If the mirk affects Thranduil, why not have Thranduil's bling reflect his state-of-mind.

Grey Havens. I like that idea. She's bailed on the Forest but haven't totally ditched hubby and the kids, harbouring hopes of reunion on the shores.


Re: the gold ring
Fair enough. Incidentally, I stumbled on a good phot of the ring
while online earlier, and it does show a thicker snake with mottling on it as the main body of the bling, and a smaller/slender unblemished snake twinning round/through the patterned snake so you might be on to something with your theory. Just can't locate that phot now. Crazy


Re: the signet ring
So then, da rock is a gem-bling. Does Thranduil have an actual signet ring then? Smile



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 3 2014, 8:49am


Views: 6809
     Stuff from around the net

It's the weekend!

(source)... and the GIFs

THRANDUIL

Nice Thranduil chibi comic strip: Thranduil, his staff and one special guest (no... get your mind out of the gutter!)

@ Eruvandi: Remember when we agreed Thranduil does not abuse Legolas? I would make an exception for this situation. Smile


LEE PACE
Seems like stuff on Halt And Catch Fire is surfacing

(source)
-some bigger-sized GIFs here

Still nothing on GotG... but here's a set of GIFs of LP roles



Anyway... I just Heart this little BTS Thranduil bit so much.


(Edited to add this): A blog in defence of movie Thranduil and PJ


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on May 3 2014, 9:01am)


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


May 3 2014, 3:47pm


Views: 6876
     Don't know, but I might be able to ask.

I know that when TORn live-streams from any of the comic cons, one of the staffers (I believe it's usually Justin Sewell or Cliff Broadway) usually carries an iPad around on which he can not only live stream what is happening, but also see the TORn chat room and talk to the people in there. I lurked in the TORn live-steam of SDCC last year, but I can't remember if any of the TORn staffers asked questions during the Hobbit panels or not and I can't remember if any of the chat room people asked them to ask any questions either. I'm now a "regular" in the chat that both Justin and Cliff are familiar with, so maybe I could try bugging one of them before the SDCC Hobbit panels to see if they'll ask a question or two for me?

I could also try asking them during TORn Tuesday if they'll take fan questions with them, or I could try tweeting one or both of them when SDCC gets a little closer. (I'd try the main TORn account but with all the followers they have they never seem to see my tweets) Heck, for that matter I may start a thread over on Feedback and try asking if TORn takes questions with them to comic cons. My only qualm is that I'm not sure when to ask. SDCC isn't until July 24th so do y'all think I (or we, if any of you want to take a whack at it tooWink) should start asking now or wait until it gets closer?


Btw, I think I found that interview with Lee Pace where he was asked if the rings had a story behind them. Wow, he really tap-danced around that question didn't he! If LP is at one of the SDCC Hobbit panels and I can get a TORn staffer to ask a question for me, I'll try to be more specific. Maybe I could try phrasing it like this (tell me what you think): "Mr. Pace, I read in an interview once that all of the rings Thranduil wears have a story behind them. If that is true, is there any chance you could tell us what those stories are?"

Extra btw, I'm loving the ring theories here!Smile

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


May 3 2014, 4:05pm


Views: 6796
     *snigger*


Quote

Nice Thranduil chibi comic strip: Thranduil, his staff and one special guest (no... get your mind out of the gutter!)

@ Eruvandi: Remember when we agreed Thranduil does not abuse Legolas? I would make an exception for this situation. Smile

ROFL! Talk about an abrupt entrance into the world! Poor baby Leggy!Tongue


Quote
Anyway... I just Heart this little BTS Thranduil bit so much.


I love that so much too!Laugh The smoothness of the way he sheaths the sword and the swoosh when he turns around! I can't even handle it!...*thud*

Re everything else: The blog makes an excellent argument, IMO and I officially declare that everything LP touches turns to fabulous!

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Elciryamo
Rivendell

May 4 2014, 4:48am


Views: 6758
     Good read


In Reply To



Anyway... I just Heart this little BTS Thranduil bit so much.


(Edited to add this): A blog in defence of movie Thranduil and PJ


I just did a read of the blog you linked to and while I do not completely agree with it, he makes some fine points regarding Thranduil and the history that would incline him to behave the way he does in the film.

LP does a great job of giving a nuanced performance, with meaning behind every word or look. Certainly looking forward to EE materials :)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 4 2014, 7:48am


Views: 6854
     Good ideas. And that interview

Smile Eruvandi, how about you try the ideas you got out, and update here? Then let's see what else we can do.


Good thinking. I noticed interviewees tend to stray from giving complete answers, so as detailed (I extended your Q) and as able to steer him back to topic would be great... we want all 4 rings to be accounted for! Evil

Quote
I'll try to be more specific. Maybe I could try phrasing it like this (tell me what you think): "Mr. Pace, I read in an interview once that all of the rings Thranduil wears have a story behind them. If that is true, is there any chance you could tell us what those stories are for each of the four rings?"



Thanks for hunting up that interview. I think there's where I saw it. Though, now reading it again, I can't help alternating between sniggering and cringing at the mention of tumblr. There's some good stuff there, but man, the sludge you gotta wade through! If I were LP and I looked in on tumblr, I'd be amused and bemused at the shipping, the smut, not only of the character but the actor, and maybe just a bit deflated at the abuse "fans" seem to institutionalise, and even champion as expression of their love for work well-done. It's like accidentally stepping into an warped alternate reality. I hope LP remains the forever tech-innocent for his sanity's sake... actually every celebrity should Tongue


Heh, enjoying the nerding too. It's a way to pass time until we hear from the source.

Quote
Extra btw, I'm loving the ring theories here!Smile



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 4 2014, 8:09am


Views: 6766
     Babysitting Thranduil

Do you know the Japanese folklore about Momo-taro, or Peach boy? I think that's where the inspiration for this came from

Quote
ROFL! Talk about an abrupt entrance into the world! Poor baby Leggy!Tongue


Here's more Thranduil with baby Legolas.


Definitely thudderous. It just seems Thranduil is so present even off-camera. Probably been said before, but how do the elf-fanciers on the site even function?

Quote
I love that so much too!Laugh The smoothness of the way he sheaths the sword and the swoosh when he turns around! I can't even handle it!...*thud*



Yeah, tho I find some of his observations about movie-Thranduil a bit strange. Oh well Tongue

Quote
The blog makes an excellent argument



LOL can't wait to see how that works out with Ronan (and I mean it in a good way) I find it interesting that Tom Hiddleston auditioned for Thor's role, became Loki and essentially stole the Thunder God's thunder, including a large chunk of the fangirl!squee. With GotG, LP also auditioned for the lead role but became the villian. The prosthetics and paint may get in the way of convincing fangirls to squee along, but there's still the same potential for title of fan-fav. At least on the superherohype forums LP's casting was quite well-received, and the comic-fandom's onboard and eagerly waiting to see the LP Ronan onscreen. The filmmakers, though, they're such teases! Still keeping Ronan close, and no official images of him. Boy do they know how to work up fandom interest!

Quote
I officially declare that everything LP touches turns to fabulous!








Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 4 2014, 8:11am


Views: 6723
     Yeah this

 

Quote
LP does a great job of giving a nuanced performance, with meaning behind every word or look. Certainly looking forward to EE materials :)



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 4 2014, 8:16am


Views: 6903
     Funny: Thranduil + Elrond








(source)

I do think Thranduil's being modest here though. And he e must have excluded his Dworwinion collection in this reckoning Sly


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 4 2014, 9:10am


Views: 5823
     PS: Found it!

Here's the snake ring pic. (source)


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 4 2014, 9:13am


Views: 5825
     A beautiful fanart of the "old" kingdom

Here.


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


vanima ephel
Rivendell


May 4 2014, 5:57pm


Views: 5881
     Oooooo! That looks like THREE snakes.

Kinky.

So maybe it's not a wedding band, maybe it represents the whole family, as there seems to be one large, wrinkly snake, one small wrinkly snake and one small, smooth snake (Thranduil, wife/mother, Legolas). Or maybe there are three more heads and three more tails out of sight on the other side, meaning six snakes and possibly three more children? Though rings are usually styled to have a 'display' side, and it just doesn't look like anything is sticking out on the back. (Though it's possible any extra heads or tails have been flattened into the body of the ring on the backside, it just doesn't seem likely.)

Seriously though, I'm kinda stumped. I don't remember any snake references specific to Tolkien's legendarium. It could mean anything. (Or nothing. Tongue )



Quote

Here's the snake ring pic. (source)


"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


vanima ephel
Rivendell


May 4 2014, 8:39pm


Views: 5812
     Addendum

I found an old archived thread that gave several mentions of snakes, but they all seem to be minor references or bits in the history that never made it to the published text. All of them were negative associations, so a snake ring is likely another sign of corruption, which doesn't mean our Fisher King isn't using it as a wedding band or as a symbol for something positive in his life, but if Tolkien had given it to him it would likely imply Bad Things Under The Surface.

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."

(This post was edited by vanima ephel on May 4 2014, 8:42pm)


vanima ephel
Rivendell


May 4 2014, 10:19pm


Views: 5812
     lol. I guess being very literal can keep an interview short and to the point.

Or maybe he's one to get sidetracked easily.


Quote
Btw, I think I found that interview with Lee Pace where he was asked if the rings had a story behind them. Wow, he really tap-danced around that question didn't he! If LP is at one of the SDCC Hobbit panels and I can get a TORn staffer to ask a question for me, I'll try to be more specific. Maybe I could try phrasing it like this (tell me what you think): "Mr. Pace, I read in an interview once that all of the rings Thranduil wears have a story behind them. If that is true, is there any chance you could tell us what those stories are?"


That seems a pretty direct question to me. But I guess I'll have to start re-watching all of LP's interviews to be sure he isn't just good at finding ways to be cagy. Wink In order to develop the very best strategy to get the maximum available information, of course. (Such a chore.)

"I dissent, even at the risk of being held incorrect or not sober."


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


May 4 2014, 10:30pm


Views: 5784
     Okay


Quote
Smile Eruvandi, how about you try the ideas you got out, and update here? Then let's see what else we can do.

I'll try posting a thread in Feedback first and see what answer I get.


Quote
Good thinking. I noticed interviewees tend to stray from giving complete answers, so as detailed (I extended your Q) and as able to steer him back to topic would be great... we want all 4 rings to be accounted for! Evil

Oooh, I like that! That way he has to either answer it, or say that he can't answer for spoiler-y reasons, but there won't be any getting distracted or talking his way around it.Evil


Quote
I hope LP remains the forever tech-innocent for his sanity's sake... actually every celebrity should Tongue

I know, right? Sometimes I wish LP was on Twitter like a bunch of the other Hobbit actors because if nothing else I could politely beg ask him if he'd consider being on an episode of TORn Tuesday, but I totally understand why he isn't on there or on a bunch of other sites. If I was an actor, I'd be kind of freaked out to go on a website and find that people had done drawings, gifs, etc., of me and characters that I had played doing things that I or the character never did. It would just be super weird, like, I wouldn't want to know that people think about me like that.Crazy

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


May 5 2014, 12:03am


Views: 5815
     What does it meeeeeeean?

 


Quote
So maybe it's not a wedding band, maybe it represents the whole family, as there seems to be one large, wrinkly snake, one small wrinkly snake and one small, smooth snake (Thranduil, wife/mother, Legolas).

I thought both the small snakes were smooth. Yes, the one small one does seem to have some little marks on it (there are some less visible marks on the other small snake too) but IMO, it looks more like something that happened accidentally when the ring was made. Like, the tool that is used to stick the snakes together might have scratched it a little and couldn't be smoothed out again . Or, given how old Thranduil is, maybe the ring is supposed to be really old too and the marks are just scratches from the general wear and tear of him wearing it all that time.


Quote
Seriously though, I'm kinda stumped. I don't remember any snake references specific to Tolkien's legendarium. It could mean anything. (Or nothing. Tongue )


I see what you did there...Wink

Perhaps the whole snake think has something to do with the whole thing of how the Mirkwood elves are "less wise and more dangerous"? I have no idea...Back to the meaning of the ring itself...

Thinking of the large snake just now, I think it's distinct texture is very interesting. On one hand it *does* look wrinkly, almost like how your fingers wrinkle and get prune-y when they're wet. On the other hand, when I look at it for a minute, it almost seems to look like rough tree bark. Maybe it's symbolic of how Thranduil is like an ancient tree that has stood tall and strong while watching thousands of years pass by. And if we're following along with the idea that the ring represents the whole family, the other two snakes are small and smooth to indicate that Legolas and wife/mother are/were younger and have seen less than him. Ooooor...

You know...as I think about Thranduil's rings and the way the one silver ring is corrupted while the other is not, and the large snake is "corrupted" while the others are not, it makes me wonder if maybe Thranduil's rings are reflections of him in a similar way to how Mirkwood is a reflection of him? Like, maybe the large, gold snake, and the one silver ring started out as smooth just like the other snakes and the other ring, but as Thranduil has become corrupted, that ring, and part of a ring that are symbolic of him have magically become corrupted too? Then, if we're right that the small snakes are representative of Legolas and wife/mother and the other silver ring belonged to wife, it makes sense that they would stay smooth because the two of them weren't/aren't corrupted...
The plot thickens...Shocked

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


May 5 2014, 12:33am


Views: 5787
     Peach boy, cuteness, and blue baddies


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Do you know the Japanese folklore about Momo-taro, or Peach boy? I think that's where the inspiration for this came from

Yes, I think I remember hearing about that at some point when I was much younger. I also vaguely remember this show that I liked when I was little where, in this one episode, the characters were reading a story about "Shell boy" where, basically the same thing happened as with peach boy, except the main characters were a fisherman, his wife and a boy that they found in a clam shell and adopted as there own son. Shell boy made friends with some talking critters and had adventures too. I don't know if "Shell boy" is an official variant of Peach boy or if it's just a variant that the show's creators made up, but it was pretty silly.Tongue


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Awwww, those are adorable!Heart See, *that* is the kind of father that I imagine Thranduil being when Leggy was much younger: Not super cuddly, certainly not abusive, but still little moments of loving tenderness even while trying to deal with the official business that comes with being king of a whole realm.Evil


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LOL can't wait to see how that works out with Ronan (and I mean it in a good way) I find it interesting that Tom Hiddleston auditioned for Thor's role, became Loki and essentially stole the Thunder God's thunder, including a large chunk of the fangirl!squee. With GotG, LP also auditioned for the lead role but became the villian. The prosthetics and paint may get in the way of convincing fangirls to squee along, but there's still the same potential for title of fan-fav. At least on the superherohype forums LP's casting was quite well-received, and the comic-fandom's onboard and eagerly waiting to see the LP Ronan onscreen. The filmmakers, though, they're such teases! Still keeping Ronan close, and no official images of him. Boy do they know how to work up fandom interest!

Yeeeeeah, I don't see Ronan being the eye-candy of GotG with all that blue stuff and the helmet covering his face. But if LP plays it well, and I'm sure he will, he still may become a fan favorite, even if it's not because of his drop-dead gorgeousness.Wink I sure hope we get a good pic of him soon! Don't they know that LP is the absolute, only reason I care about or even watched the GotG trailers?!Crazy

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


May 5 2014, 2:10am


Views: 5780
     *nearly chokes on brownie*

Bwahah-*cough*-haha!Laugh I really shouldn't read your posts when I'm eating.Tongue

No wonder Legolas can hold his liquor so well. He learned from the best! I love the expressions on Elrond's face!

"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


May 5 2014, 3:15am


Views: 5793
     As we've reached the 200-post limit again,

I'll be locking this thread. Feel free to start another appreciation thread on page one.

(I'll place a bet that it will take all of 10 minutes for a new one to start...)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


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