The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit: Warner Brothers: get it together!

The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Warner Brothers: get it together!

Nevrast
Bree

Oct 22 2013, 4:40pm

Views: 1964

Warner Brothers: get it together!

Is it just me or does Warner Brothers seem to be an organizational mess of a company with no taste?

I hate to be harsh, but they seem to mess up so many things.

First the digital edition of the EE is supposed to be out today then it IS for a bit in some countries then it is down. Get it together! It's showing on planes but with no real announcement. What's going on?

Then there are the super super super cheesy posters and other promotional materials. I know there was some of this with LOTR but it seems even more extreme this time around (though the movie is a lot cheesier too).

The trailers also don't seem as good and the TV spots especially tend to be pretty bad.

Oh, and then the DVD/Blu-ray boxes which are again super super cheesy and generic next to the classy New Line LOTR sets.

Basically all the marketing and promotion for these movies is really really sub-par, cheesy unorganized, and generic.

Really disappointing.

Dragonrnbw
Rivendell

Oct 22 2013, 4:46pm

Views: 1032

Don't forget

The books - dates have changed twice!!! Mad

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for thou are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Oct 22 2013, 4:47pm

Views: 1050

If you find the movie itself...

to be a cheese-fest, then why do you want to digitally download it so badly?

Misty Mountain Hop
Rivendell

Oct 22 2013, 4:58pm

Views: 930

I wouldn't say that it's all "super cheesy" but...

I do agree with you that the promoting has been less than stellar. I know that the movie is two months away, but they should be showing more previews. I've been watching a lot of television, and I have seen nothing. I've been to movies in theaters, and nothing. I've watched previews of Blu rays and Dvds, nothing...

"Only, you've never done a hard day's work." - Merry

Subaruman
Bree

Oct 22 2013, 5:03pm

Views: 932

There's a rush to be the first to criticise the new content//

"Here is a book very unsuitable for dramatic or semi-dramatic representation. If that is attempted, it needs more space, a lot of space."

- J.R.R. Tolkien, 1956

QuackingTroll
Valinor

Oct 22 2013, 5:16pm

Views: 919

Unfortunately WB thinks they can market The Hobbit like Harry Potter

They're recycling the marketing for the last two Harry Potter films with the mentality of "it worked before" and they're not really paying any attention to what fans want or what catches their interest.

It's unfortunate, but looking at it from WB perspective. They know The Hobbit is gonna make a tonne of money in the end, so they don't really need to give it much attention. It's more important to put their marketing priorities on their harder to sell projects and just let The Hobbit sell itself.

(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Oct 22 2013, 5:17pm)

Nevrast
Bree

Oct 22 2013, 5:17pm

Views: 908

I didn't say that. I said it was cheesier

I didn't say that it was a cheese-fest. I said it was cheesier than LOTR. Does anybody dispute that?

Even though there are some parts that I think are too cheesy for my taste, that doesn't mean I hate it all. There are parts I love! So I want to see the EE.

Not everything is black and white.

dormouse
Half-elven

Oct 22 2013, 5:40pm

Views: 859

Yes, I absolutely dispute it

Definition of cheesy: 1) like cheese in taste, smell or consistency 2) cheap and of low quality

I say The Hobbit is neither of the above. Plainly not the first, and as for the second - well, given the calibre of actors in it and the design team there's certainly nothing cheap about it and its quality is the very highest. Doesn't mean you or I or anyone else has to like it, but cheap and of low quality it ain't.

It isn't Lord of the Rings and it was never going to be because - get this - it's an adaptation of a different story and a very different style of book. It's different, that's all.

Never safe to assume that because you think something everyone else will think the same!

Nevrast
Bree

Oct 22 2013, 5:59pm

Views: 797

Okay, if you're going to pick on my words

Let's say "campy" instead.

Whatever though, the point of this thread isn't that the movie is somewhat cheesy. That's just a side point. The point of this thread is that Warner Brothers isn't handling the promotion and marketing in a good way.

QuackingTroll
Valinor

Oct 22 2013, 6:15pm

Views: 780

I agree with Nevrast.

I'd say your second definition hits the nail on the head.

No-one called The Hobbit cheesy. What Nevrast is saying is that the MARKETING has been cheesy and I completely agree. The posters have been cheap, badly Photoshopped, and poor quality, release dates for merchandise have been extremely inconsistent and quality of merchandise is noticeably poorer - compare book covers and action figures for example. We've seen little to no innovation with the promotion other than the cool Empire mag covers and the whole thing has completely failed to make the fanbase feel in any way valued. On top of that there's the confusing number of formats for everything from digital downloads, 3D blu-rays, HFR cinema showings. The whole thing just feels like a massive mess.

But hey, that's my opinion, I guess.

Kristin Thompson
Rohan

Oct 22 2013, 6:21pm

Views: 755

This is, after all,

the same studio that brought you Jack the Giant Slayer. Remember how Bryan Singer apologized on twitter for the poor poster design? If not, I wrote a blog entry about it at the time, opining, among other things, that TORn's campaign to help Bilbo win MTV's Best Hero contest was more professional than WB's own publicity--and that all done with volunteer labor. Back in 2000, when New Line was preparing a sub-par publicity campaign for LOTR, the cast and crew dug in their heels and forced NL to hire a publicist who could come up with a high-toned campaign. WB is a different sort of institution, unfortunately.

Elessar
Valinor

Oct 22 2013, 6:23pm

Views: 749

Posters

I'll give ya on the posters. I don't think those have been done nearly as good as the LOTR posters. I would say that The Hobbit stuff otherwise has been pretty good as a whole. The books are still very well done and the action figures are pretty cool (we do need more of them though). The high end stuff from Weta is every bit as good if not better than the SSW stuff from a decade ago.

Lindele
Gondor

Oct 22 2013, 6:29pm

Views: 721

While I largely agree,

the trailers have been pretty poor, and there is a lot of cheesy merchandise out there...I think that this complaint is fairly over exaggerated.

The 'official' posters of LOTR were beautiful but there were a lot of cheesy, bad photoshopped ones out there as well. So far the official poster (and the teaser posters) for The Hobbit have been very well done, even if there are some bad secondary ones out there.
I think a lot of the cheesy LOTR merchandise has fallen by the wayside in the last decade and people have forgotten about it.
We are still getting the beautiful stuff from WETA, and it is as good as ever.

I'm not saying that I am totally happy with everything WB has done, and I do wish there was less of the commercial silliness, but it really isn't all that different. I think they have taken pretty huge steps in assuring consistency with LOTR.
We haven't seen the EE box in person yet but it seems to be almost EXACTLY the same as the LOTR EEs, with the exception of the picture on the front. Not to mention, home viewing is drastically different, and the market is totally different than what it was a decade ago.

I think people really try to find ways to be unhappy...that is the only conclusion I can come to these days.

(This post was edited by Lindele on Oct 22 2013, 6:31pm)

Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator

Oct 22 2013, 6:30pm

Views: 753

A really good way to annoy your customers

is to not do what you said you would do. Hopefully WB will make an announcement about what is going on with the digital download.

Why do some businesses make it so hard for people to give them money?

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron�s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.

Ataahua's stories

Elessar
Valinor

Oct 22 2013, 6:36pm

Views: 712

That's a good question

It does make one wonder. I have a story about AT&T here in the states doing something stupid when I wanted to buy the IPhone 4s. Seems WB is doing a bit of the same here with the EE digital version. It might not hurt them in the long run but it could. So why would you risk it? Crazy

dormouse
Half-elven

Oct 22 2013, 6:44pm

Views: 691

Well, he did, actually....

In his second post he said that The Hobbit was cheesier than LotR and he was sure no one would dispute that. No mention of the marketing. Put like that I would dispute it, and I did.

If we're talking marketing, yes, some of that does seem rather chaotic and disorganised. I think some of the posters have been very good. Some haven't appealed to me - I'm not sure that I'd jump from that to saying they're poor quality; it really isn't the same thing - and the stuff coming from Weta is the very highest quality, I'd say, even the things which don't particularly appeal to me.

As for 'making the fanbase feel valued' - I'm not absolutely sure that that's what marketing is about - certainly when it comes to a large corporation. With LotR it was all a bit experimental, wasn't it? New Line was a smaller company, no one was sure if the thing would succeed, so they made a huge effort. Things aren't like that any more, which is sad but probably inevitable.

When it comes to the myriad of different formats I'm with you 100%. I think the idea that different countries have to have different packaging and different release dates, and this is avilable here but not there is a recipe for making everyone feel discontented.

Dragonrnbw
Rivendell

Oct 22 2013, 6:48pm

Views: 680

That's my biggest issue

Not only are they not delivering on time they are not giving any reason as to why! Frown

Any information is better than no information. I planned on buying the digital download ...can't do that and no information as to when it will be available.
I have preordered several books - all pushed back.
I was considering buying some other stuff as gifts but due to unreliability I am now thinking that would not be a good idea. Unsure

Now I am sure WB isn't going to cry over losing my money but there will come a time when enough of us say ENOUGH and it will affect their pocketbook!
I will buy more from a company that delivers a good product as advertised ON TIME!!

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for thou are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

Cirashala
Valinor

Oct 22 2013, 6:54pm

Views: 674

because

they are determined to go out of business, apparently....

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.

Avandel
Half-elven

Oct 22 2013, 7:37pm

Views: 656

Trailer 2 awesome IMO, but too much image re-hash

Disagree about trailer 2 which I thought was epic and I still re-watch - fabulous. Also both AUJ trailers.

Loved the new banner, loved the first teaser poster with Bilbo. Really loved the image suite of the each dwarf, Galadriel, Gandalf, Bilbo - the "blue" Thorin picture is one the two favorite images of a movie character I have ever seen, thoroughly capturing the character, and a framed copy has a place of honor on my wall.
But there's too much image re-use and re-hash, IMO, it's not like we can't tell - srsly, would it break the bank to take one or two new pictures of Thranduil? Cheap, cheap. Too late if it wasn't done while filming, cast is probably scattered all over the globe and costumes and sets in warehouses.

And now there's the digitial download debacle - and unfortunately, even if I'm getting jerked around, I'll put up with it as a captive fan. Can only hope there is a PR explosion as DOS gets closer, or are all the entertainment magazines going to get a collection of rehash to print?

Faleel
Rohan

Oct 22 2013, 7:42pm

Views: 626

Image rehash

I would be satisfied even with them just taking a still image Thranduil from the film, and used it at this point.

Snaga
Lorien

Oct 22 2013, 7:55pm

Views: 594

This has been one of my biggest worries....

In Reply To

We haven't seen the EE box in person yet but it seems to be almost EXACTLY the same as the LOTR EEs, with the exception of the picture on the front. Not to mention, home viewing is drastically different, and the market is totally different than what it was a decade ago.

Back when the LOTR EE's were coming out these extended addition releases with the huge amount of extra content (documentary material, artwork, etc..) were still novel. I think the studios were still wondering if they were going to catch on and become a money making endeavor for every blockbuster. The LOTR films kind of set the benchmark in this area. It seems things have changed in recent years and the days of the massive EE packs seem to be waning. I can recall that early on in pre-production PJ mentioned something along the lines that, while they don't plan to make films with a bunch of unused content that doesn't go into the theatrical release because it's inefficient, he wanted to stay true to what they did in the LOTR EE's and deliver a lot of extra 'appendices' type content. Since WB got involved I've been concerned about whether or not they would pressure PJ to keep the extra content at a minimum to maximize profit. From the descriptions I've seen of the upcoming EE release I'm pleased to say that it looks like PJ got his way, but I will wait until it's in my Blu-Ray player to say I'm relieved.

"Alas for Boromir! It was too sore a trial!"

-Faramir

Eleniel
Tol Eressea

Oct 22 2013, 8:04pm

Views: 575

Of course, those aren't the only 2 definitions of "cheesy"

This slang dictionary has 7!

"Cheesy" can also mean cliched, melodramatic, corny, trying too hard... Smile

But agreed, the marketing has been lacklustre at best...

"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
� Victoria Monfort

QuackingTroll
Valinor

Oct 22 2013, 8:26pm

Views: 577

I agree the Weta stuff is still fantastic

You say the action figures are good, but compare them in quality to the Lord of the Rings action figures. I have my Lurtz figure which I love. If the Azog figure was any where near as good I'd be much more interested in collecting.

An easier contrast is the Legolas figures from The Hobbit and LotR. the LotR one is just a much better product.

QuackingTroll
Valinor

Oct 22 2013, 8:39pm

Views: 544

Sorry for exaggerating. But I get more interesting responses this way

I'm happy for fans to get a little angry at me if it makes for an interesting debate.

I disagree about the posters. The main theatrical posters for Lord of the Rings were all good. The only posters I've really really liked for The Hobbit are Bilbo walking out his door and the close-up of Bilbo holding Sting. The others just look a bit "cheap", and what worries me is that it's these "cheap" looking ones that seem to be used the most for advertising and for the dvd cases!

This is all very subjective of course so I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, just that I personally feel really let down by WB's marketing and none of it is really appealing to me. We don't even have a Hobbit video game! But I suppose at the end poor marketing is better than no marketing.

(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Oct 22 2013, 8:41pm)

StoneHex104
Rivendell

Oct 22 2013, 8:57pm

Views: 517

Without WB there wouldn't be a Hobbit movie produced, be grateful for what they have done for us, the fans

Lindele
Gondor

Oct 22 2013, 9:09pm

Views: 418

I agree

with you about the posters (although I did like the original Gandalf teaser) but we haven't even seen the posters for the second two movies yet.
You just named two posters that are good for AUJ...Each LOTR movie had about that many good ones too...

Arannir
Valinor

Oct 22 2013, 9:15pm

Views: 413

Without WB someone else would have bought the rights sooner or later ;)

No need to be grateful to them, they get their reward anyway ;)

Also, I hate to be an uneducated consumer who swallows whatever I get thrown at me.

On the whole marketing stuff... as far as I can tell I find the TV Spots and the trailers on par with LotR... some better, some same, some worse. Same goes for the posters (hated some of the LotR ones as well). However, I feel there could be more and better placed. But not sure whether it hasn't become harder to place them well, since TH simply is not the once-in-a-lifetime-thing (movie, marketing and franchise-wise) that LotR has been (independendly from the quality of the film).

What really annyos me is the lack of features on the DVDs and BluRays (theatrical version, besides stuff available all over the internet). I just hope the commentaries are all that are really trimmed from the EE specials... anything else would be a major upset for me as well.

�A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men�s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.� J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.

Dragonrnbw
Rivendell

Oct 22 2013, 9:17pm

Views: 417

Without the fans

Spending our money there would be no WB!!!

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for thou are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

Nevrast
Bree

Oct 22 2013, 9:33pm

Views: 391

They're making millions of dollars. They can take some criticism //

LordotRings93
Rohan

Oct 22 2013, 9:39pm

Views: 414

WB just doesn't seem to care it seems

When it comes to their marketing (looking especially at TBD's Hobbit figures), it's terrible. You think with AUJ making a billion at the box office, they'd wanna really spruce up the marketing this time around to give DoS an even bigger boost. It just feels like The Hobbit's not on anyone's radar aside from us fans on here. Stores don't seem to carry any of the Hobbit merchandise, no TV spots or any other big reveals like posters or "x" amount of new photos that other big movies get before their release.

Lover of Medieval Fantasy
"I know what I must do. It's just... I'm afraid to do it."

Elessar
Valinor

Oct 22 2013, 9:44pm

Views: 384

The Bridge Direct

Even compared to the toybiz stuff they're good. The Azog figure from comic-con is a really cool figure. I even said as much I my review back before comic-con. It's one of the cool figures in that scale that I've owned. I just got the Radagast figure today which I'll be reviewing soon and I have to say he's pretty sweet.

Lindele
Gondor

Oct 22 2013, 9:50pm

Views: 388

Ok but everyone knows

by now that you wait for the EEs to get the real special features, which will have (like LOTR) arguably the most extensive and massive special features of any movie ever.

Not to mention that the theatrical release had two hours of special features...
I'm not trying to start trouble, I am just boggled at how anyone could be disappointed in the special features dept. of LOTR/Hobbit...

Glorfindela
Valinor

Oct 22 2013, 10:19pm

Views: 355

The packaging for the UK DVDs looks bog-standard

From the pictures of the EEs on Amazon UK, it just looks like cheap, bog-standard DVD packaging � nothing like the quality of the LOTR EEs. The LOTR DVDs for the cinema edition were also of a better quality than they are for AUJ. If they could produce a good-looking product for other countries, such as Japan and the US (including the sketches), why could they not do so for the UK, one of their biggest markets?

As far as I can see, the only thing that is consistent quality-wise is the stamp sets from New Zealand Post. They match the LOTR sets in terms of design and availability.

In Reply To

Nevrast
Bree

Oct 22 2013, 10:53pm

Views: 332

Yup exactly. DVD packaging looks way worse. Night and day //

Ziggy Stardust
Gondor

Oct 23 2013, 12:42am

Views: 298

Well said QuackingTroll

Exactly what I wanted to say. It's a massive mes, and I'm confused by it.

Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Oct 23 2013, 1:07am

Views: 305

WB

I have said from the get go that WB's marketing of The Hobbit is terrible. Really bad. They have poor communication and they just are not good at it. I didn't order the EE because I like the cast commentary which isn't on there so for me it's not an issue when it's released but for those that did order it and want to see it and wanted the DD, this really is poor communication and marketing. They come off as just plain not caring. Sad really.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13

Old Toby
Grey Havens

Oct 23 2013, 6:10am

Views: 264

What really irritates me about WB

is what appears to be their total lack of concern - about the fans, about publicity, about promotion, about marketing merchandise, and, evidently therefore, about the movies. I think we have been largely spoiled by New Line in the past, and what they did and the lengths to which they went to involve the fanbase. After all, it's those who go see the movies multiple times that help drive the box office figures up, not just the one-time viewers (heck, the theater I went to should have engraved my name on the seat I always sat in). But even if they didn't need to consider the fanbase, what do they think they have here? A cash cow? If so, they are sorely mistaken. Maybe they are of the philosophy that 'everything comes to those who wait'. But I would point out: 'the things that come to those who wait are the things left behind by those who got there first'!

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)

Silmaril
Rohan

Oct 23 2013, 7:10am

Views: 212

"Why do some businesses make it so hard for people to give them money?"

yes, exactly my thought about the digital download chaos! fortunately i'm not interested to spend my money on this.

Glorfindela
Valinor

Oct 23 2013, 11:43am

Views: 219

For me the worst thing is the way they have been promoting the film this year

Virtually all I've seen is the made-up Tauriel and a weird-looking Legolas. The story is The Hobbit, yet we've seen practically nothing of the key characters of Tolkien's tale, e.g. Thorin, Bilbo, Gandalf, etc. Thranduil, an important character in The Hobbit, has a fantastic design and looks very promising, but is featured in the background of T and L, if at all. The key characters, played by actors who are way above the T and L actors in terms of ability, were established really well in AUJ, and are very popular. Why not take advantage of this?

I've found that the excessive T & L promotion has made me lose interest in the film. Neither of these actors even approaches the abilities of most of the actors used in AUJ, so neither is likely to enhance DoS. Bloom was fine in LOTR, where he was evenly matched with many of the other actors (of course not the likes of Sir Ian McKellen) and part of an ensemble cast. However, I don't think that � especially with his weird looks � he is going to contribute positively to the film unless his role is very small. I'm not even sure who this promotion is aimed at. Both of the actors are too old to appeal to the children's or teenage markets. The T character is very heavily made up, with lipstick that clashes with the orange hair, etc., and makes her look even older than she is. In my view, the effect of plugging these two new characters is likely to have a negative effect on many people.

glor
Rohan

Oct 23 2013, 12:40pm

Views: 163

Bog standard packaging in the digital age.

Back in the early 2000s, packing of DVDs especially special editions and EEs were important commercially, as they gave the product shop floor appeal. These elaborate packages weren't 'for the fans' but to differentiate the product on the shelf, to make the consumer pick up the physical object they had to buy to enjoy the film at home and say this is a special DVD, with special stuff in it, buy me.

Now a decade on, we live in era where a quarter of films are purchased via download, no package involved, and those of us who still buy the physical object, don't buy it on our high streets, but from the internet from sellers like Amazon, where the need for packaging appeal to sell and market a product is negated. Over 3/4 of physical DVd and Blu-ray sales in the UK are not sold in 'real' shops but delivered to our doors via internet sellers, the cover doesn't sell the product in the same way to the majority of consumers the way it did 10 years ago.

I too, am disappointed but, it's a different era, the need for any film company to spend time, money and effort into elaborate packaging is gone. I also think it is worth not getting too rosie eyed about the 'old days' of LOTR. I clearly recall the allegations of rip offs, milking the cash cow and the like over the EEs, and the different versions, collectors editions, special editions with Weta figures, etc of the DVDs

Misty Mountain Hop
Rivendell

Oct 23 2013, 12:44pm

Views: 160

Agreed! They are one in a million

"Only, you've never done a hard day's work." - Merry

Glorfindela
Valinor

Oct 23 2013, 12:49pm

Views: 158

I'm not 'rosie-eyed' about the 'old days of LOTR'

But I do question why what seems to be very good packaging is available in, say, Japan and the United States, but not in the UK, one of the strongest markets for this film.

Old Toby
Grey Havens

Oct 23 2013, 4:55pm

Views: 132

I absolutely agree with you Glorfindela

although I can't say I've lost interest in the film in any way. It just is disheartening to me that they seem, at least judging solely from the advance publicity, to be forgetting the main characters of the Hobbit in marketing and deferring instead to the lesser and, imo, unnecessary additional characters of Legolas and Tauriel. I loved the first film despite some silly moments, but I just don't want to see DOS heavy on L & T.

"In my view, the effect of plugging these two new characters is likely to have a negative effect on many people." In my opinion it's already having a negative effect, at least judging from the comments here on these boards. But then, we are a passionate and demanding lot! Wink

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)

Glorfindela
Valinor

Oct 23 2013, 5:07pm

Views: 135

I will try to love it, Old Toby

And am just praying that these two will have relatively minor roles in the film. I hope they do not make me lose interest altogether.

I'm so looking forward to seeing Thorin, Bilbo, Gandalf, Thranduil, Balin, Beorn and Smaug�obviously I haven't yet lost interest and trust that remains the case.

In Reply To