The One Ring Forums: Off Topic: The Pollantir:
On Balrog Wings

Poll: On Balrog Wings Balrogs have physical wings and can fly 14 / 26% Balrogs have physical wings and can not fly 21 / 40% Balrogs do not have physical wings, but can fly anyway 2 / 4% Balrogs do not have physical wings and can not fly 9 / 17% Other ( just in case Balrogs have semiphyscial wings and can only fly under water) 7 / 13% 53 total votes

Lightfoot Rivendell Sep 26 2013, 7:17pm Views: 705 On Balrog Wings The Balrog of Moria is described as having "wings of shadow" in The Lord of the Rings. That can be interpreted in several different ways - creating a major controversy amongst fans. So what do you think about Balrogs and their wings? Faithful servant yet master's bane, Lightfoot's foal, swift Snowmane

malickfan Gondor Sep 26 2013, 7:37pm Views: 536 I think... Oh, great...here we go again! But seriously, I just voted other becuase I haven't read the books in aaaaggggesss so I can't recall any of the Balrog's appearances that clearly, the Balrog could be a tapdancing lephrecaun on a moped for all I care. Hmm...but as you say wings of shadow gives the impression they aren't truly physical flesh and bone wings , but I'm fairly certain A balrog who had the intelligence and power to lay hidden in moria for millenium would know to beat it wings and fly upward out of the chasm in Moria. *Shrugs, looks for his copy of LOTR* I don't have much to say.

CuriousG Half-elven Sep 26 2013, 7:39pm Views: 528 OK, but in the next poll, I want to know what a whip of fire is. Is it pure flame, or a whip that's burning? If it's pure flame, how can it wrap around a wizard's legs, or is it like non-physical wings that can fly (my vote), something that's fantastical that you can't figure out?

CuriousG Half-elven Sep 26 2013, 7:40pm Views: 512 "tapdancing lephrecaun on a moped" I think the poll should be revised to add that as a voting option.

malickfan Gondor Sep 26 2013, 7:44pm Views: 517 Agreed Lightfoot will be cursing the 10 minute edit window. I'm tempted to put it as an option in all future polls I create... I don't have much to say.

CuriousG Half-elven Sep 26 2013, 7:52pm Views: 512 Oddly, it reminds me of Bombadil. Now we know what he really is! //

malickfan Gondor Sep 26 2013, 8:01pm Views: 523 Tom Bombadil the tapdancing lephrecaun... As good a answer as we likely to get, and a perfect starting point for a poem. But what does that make Goldberry? I don't have much to say.

Ataahua Forum Admin / Moderator Sep 26 2013, 9:56pm Views: 503 Other: Tolkien's Balrog doesn't have physical wings, but mine does! Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..." Dwarves: "Pretty rings..." Men: "Pretty rings..." Sauron: "Mine's better." "Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak. Ataahua's stories

Meneldor Valinor Sep 26 2013, 11:52pm Views: 531 IF Balrogs can fly how did Gondolin stay hidden for four centuries? Of course the Eagles would try to keep them away, but eventually Morgoth would look at his maps and notice there was one area where Eagles always drove away his reconnaissance Balrogs. So I'm voting for enforcing a no-fly zone for Balrogs. They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.

Na Vedui Rohan Sep 27 2013, 1:06am Views: 493 I'd ask the same question about the Balrog itself It's a creature of shadow and flame, but clearly solid enough to hold either a burning physical weapon or (your other option) a weapon that is at least "physical" enough to interact with a physical Gandalf. Though something that has physical effect need not be solid matter, I suppose - think of the blast from an explosion. Any physicists out there with an idea how a "non-solid" Balrog might do its stuff?

Na Vedui Rohan Sep 27 2013, 1:28am Views: 488 Further to the above The Balrog - like Gandalf - is clearly able to affect physical objects without handling them bodily - there's the episode before their final confrontation where they fight for control of the door leading from the Chamber of Mazarbul, using spells and counterspells that finally shatter the door under the opposing strains (and on Gandalf's admission, nearly shatter him too.) So I guess we are very largely beyond the realm of real-world physics (as presently understood, anyhow) with this one.

Werde Spinner Rohan Sep 27 2013, 1:38am Views: 492 I second this! That line truly made my day. "I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?" "As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."

Werde Spinner Rohan Sep 27 2013, 1:41am Views: 500 I went for the semi-physical wings since I think it strikes a nice balance between metaphorical wing-like shadow and wings made out of shadow. The argument could be made that the chasm which the bridge in Moria spanned is too narrow for the Balrog to fly out of (he hits the walls a few times on the way down, doesn't he?). I know there are references to Balrogs moving with 'winged speed' and suchlike, but I just can't see them flying. The wings may be more like the frills on lizards and ceratopsians - for intimidation mostly. I don't know. At this point, I find the Great Balrog Wing Controversy more amusing than anything else. Now I want to see one on a unicycle, with a brightly-colored umbrella... "I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?" "As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."

Brethil Half-elven Sep 27 2013, 1:45am Views: 477 I think CG can teach them how to do this. In Reply To . Now I want to see one on a unicycle, with a brightly-colored umbrella... And how to balance lots of ice cream. Though I guess melting would be a major problem. (BTW I voted for +wings -flight. I like your idea W-S of the wing for show and intimidation.) Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!

Alassëa Eruvande Valinor Sep 27 2013, 1:47am Views: 477 Other. Balrogs have non-physical wings and can fly. They sometimes choose not to fly, though. I am SMAUG! I kill when I wish! I am strong, strong, STRONG! My armor is like tenfold shields! My teeth like swords! My claws, spears! The shock of my tail, a thunderbolt! My wings, a hurricane! And my breath, death!

Werde Spinner Rohan Sep 27 2013, 1:59am Views: 481 Well, they can buy a refrigerated truck that plays a jaunty little tune, and go around selling ice cream to all the good little children of Middle-earth. Hey, a Balrog's gotta find *some* method of employment after the downfall of Sauron. "I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?" "As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."

cats16 Half-elven Sep 27 2013, 5:35am Views: 476 Ask not the TORNsibs... for they will say both yes and no.

Alassëa Eruvande Valinor Sep 27 2013, 12:58pm Views: 460 LOL! *mods up* //   I am SMAUG! I kill when I wish! I am strong, strong, STRONG! My armor is like tenfold shields! My teeth like swords! My claws, spears! The shock of my tail, a thunderbolt! My wings, a hurricane! And my breath, death!

Lightfoot Rivendell Sep 27 2013, 1:52pm Views: 455 Your right I might have to create a new poll on the true identity of Tom Bombidil. Or you can if you feel up to it Faithful servant yet master's bane, Lightfoot's foal, swift Snowmane

Lightfoot Rivendell Sep 27 2013, 1:56pm Views: 461 Perhaps King Elessar will create a new law enforcing a no-fly zone and regulating migration routes. Faithful servant yet master's bane, Lightfoot's foal, swift Snowmane

Lightfoot Rivendell Sep 27 2013, 2:02pm Views: 452 I like that idea! Personally, I think that they don't have *physical* wings and can't fly. Those wings of shadow would be good for making the Balrog appear bigger and more terrifying. After all Middle Earth would not be inhabitable if it were patrolled by flying Balrogs intent upon destruction, murder, and mayhem! Although they might cause a little more damage if they attempted that little circus trick you mentioned Faithful servant yet master's bane, Lightfoot's foal, swift Snowmane

Magpie Immortal Sep 27 2013, 2:38pm Views: 475 or rather... Ask not the TORnsibs.... for they will use it as an opportunity to pun LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide

Darkstone Immortal Sep 27 2013, 3:03pm Views: 478 The Balrog itself is the metaphor! Like the Watcher in the Water is merely a metaphor for the multinational octopus of the life squeezing corporations that are taking over the world and preventing the public establishment of a good old fashioned self sufficient and self sustaining mom-and-pop barter economy likewise the Balrog is a metaphor for the secret underground shadow government of the conglomerate of privatized power utilities that introduces deadly pollution into the environment at will and shamelessly manipulates the whip of energy prices to drain the lifeblood of the hardworking proletariat that it is simultaneously poisoning with the deadly output of poorly regulated smokestacks and ubiquitous exhaust pipes! Of course it is infuriatingly ironic that people argue over whether or not the wings of a metaphor are themselves metaphorical but then again that's exactly what THEY want us to do!! ****************************************** I met a Balrog on the stair, He had some wings that weren't there. They weren't there again today, I wish he would just fly away.

Na Vedui Rohan Sep 27 2013, 3:32pm Views: 448 Thinking back to first reading LOTR when I was a child, I had quite a clear image of the Balrog, side view, with a mane of flame and shadow flaring out from its head and back (but no wings). Later, I tracked down what I think was the core of the image, namely William Blake's picture of the Ghost of a Flea. My mother had quite a few art books, including one about William Blake, so I must have seen the Flea and forgotten it until it surfaced from my subconscious, clad in smoke and flames.

cats16 Half-elven Sep 27 2013, 4:16pm Views: 430 Hahaha that too. //

Darkstone Immortal Sep 27 2013, 4:57pm Views: 313 Well, we could go out on a limb and shed some light upon this abysmal subject. /   ****************************************** I met a Balrog on the stair, He had some wings that weren't there. They weren't there again today, I wish he would just fly away.

Meneldor Valinor Sep 27 2013, 5:24pm Views: 327 Isn't it time for a fresh layer of tin foil in your fruit helmet? They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.

DanielLB Immortal Sep 27 2013, 11:16pm Views: 330 If Balrogs had wings....? Then why didn't Gandalf think to fly the Ring into Mordor?

Ethel Duath Half-elven Sep 28 2013, 12:02am Views: 326 If Balrogs had wings, why then, purses might talk! (This post was edited by Ethel Duath on Sep 28 2013, 12:03am)

Ethel Duath Half-elven Sep 28 2013, 12:08am Views: 293 That might bridge the gap. Of Rohan. //

Ethel Duath Half-elven Sep 28 2013, 12:10am Views: 302 Second that! :D //

Ethel Duath Half-elven Sep 28 2013, 12:14am Views: 293 Exhaust! The wings, and possibly part of the Balrog itself are all made of exhaust--hence the shadow and the flame! But it's now in retirement as the Smoke Monster on Lost.

Ethel Duath Half-elven Sep 28 2013, 12:26am Views: 310 Whoa! I love that! Can I use that in Tolkienia? "Ghost Flea Meadow" ? Or "Ghost-Flea Market, where prices are set at the vanishing point!" I did just look up that picture, and it really does look very Balrog like. Quite horrifying! It must have been pretty scary to see as a child; I can understand why it would stick with you and re-surface when it had an appropriate character to attach it to.

CuriousG Half-elven Sep 28 2013, 3:20am Views: 365 Finally! Someone else sees Tolkien's subversive themes the way I do.

Na Vedui Rohan Sep 28 2013, 3:38pm Views: 309 Ghost fleas Wow, yes, ghost fleas sound as if they'd fit right in in Middle-earth. Minas Morgul is probably full of them. Rather a facer for Ithilien Pest Control after the War of the Ring.

FaramirAndEowynMorningStar Rohan Sep 28 2013, 4:57pm Views: 320 Not sure. Maybe they can only hover slightly above the ground - and because they've not really come out a lot, they're not really used to flying. *shrugs* Just my opinion. ....."Loyalty, Honor, ......A Willing Heart. I can ask no more than that." ...... ~ Thorin Oakenshield

dubulous Rohan Sep 29 2013, 9:51am Views: 287 Well... I believe the balrog does have wings and they are as physical as the rest of its being, which isn't necessarily flesh and blood. Can it fly? Probably not. Maybe short distances, close to the ground, but not like a dragon. And this particular balrog in Moria probably would be even less capable to fly having been holed up in a cave for a long time.

Annael Immortal Sep 29 2013, 3:09pm Views: 259 wow, it's been years since I saw this debated here in the Elder Days it was a topic of much contention. As I always reply: It was dark. They were scared out of their gourds. Some saw wings, some just saw a shadow. No one but Gandalf knows for sure and he's not telling. The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives. - James Hillman, Healing Fiction * * * * * * * * * * NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967

Annael Immortal Sep 29 2013, 3:10pm Views: 264 "Mods up" that answer goes to 11. The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives. - James Hillman, Healing Fiction * * * * * * * * * * NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967

Aunt Dora Baggins Immortal Sep 30 2013, 7:37pm Views: 255 Or drink... *glug* ;-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories leleni at hotmail dot com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Arannir Valinor Oct 6 2013, 2:27pm Views: 234 Will remain... ... an artificial and weird discussion for me. The seriousness some people spent on arguing (and fighting) for their view is disturbing imho :D “A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.

Caralirani Registered User Oct 16 2013, 6:15am Views: 266 Maybe/Maybe not Before I saw Fellowship of the Ring, I imagined the Balrog to basically be a giant molten lava monster like I would see in cartoons (hey I was 13, give me a break). When I saw the Fellowship, the Balrog made sense, and it wasn't until later when I was on TWC that I realized mentioning Balrog wings opens up a GIANT can of worms amongst Lotr fans. "A day will come at last when I shall take the hidden paths that run, West of the Moon, East of the Sun." -Frodo Baggins