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Other actors who could have played Aragorn



Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 10 2013, 6:42pm


Views: 14733
Other actors who could have played Aragorn

I long thought, before the films were even dreamed of, that Clint Eastwood's "man with no name" was a near
perfect look for the Ranger of the North. He has the steely eyes and the presence - think of Aragorn at the Prancing Pony.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/...Eastwood_-_1960s.JPG

http://corecanvas.s3.amazonaws.com/...iginal/aragorn_5.jpg

A current actor with striking similarity to Clint is Hugh Jackman.

http://images2.fanpop.com/...101613-1280-1024.jpg


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Sep 10 2013, 6:46pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


Sep 10 2013, 7:20pm


Views: 13278
I always wanted Eastwood for Gandalf.

He's pointy.

But babies and audiences love round features so we got McKellen with an extra round prosthetic on the end of his nose.

******************************************
“That hobbit has a pleasant face,
His private life is a disgrace.
I really could not tell to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.”


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 10 2013, 8:27pm


Views: 13259
Clintagorn vs Ruffians in San Bree

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxYdbGHzaTk

Fighting some orcs...2:22 mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyjrUAimzZg


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Sep 10 2013, 8:32pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


Sep 10 2013, 9:14pm


Views: 13476
BTW, Mortensen was seventh choice.

The role was originally offered to Daniel Day Lewis, who declined. Then they offered it to Nicolas Cage, but he refused. They auditioned Vin Diesel, but after they saw the tape they didn’t think he’d work. So they offered it to Daniel Day Lewis again, but he refused again. So they got Stuart Townsend, but after a month of rehearsals they fired him and offered it to Daniel Day Lewis yet again, but he refused it yet again. So Mark Ordesky’s wife reminded him of this actor named Viggo Mortensen they met at a party a year or two before. Ordesky put together a quick demo tape of Mortensen’s roles in “Psycho”, The Prophecy”, and “Texas Chainsaw Massacre III”. (?!?!) He showed the tape to Peter Jackson who, for some reason, felt Mortensen would be perfect for Aragorn. (One wonders exactly what Jackson saw in Mortensen's roles as a villain in these three horror films that made him think that.) Mortensen almost said no, but his son convinced him to take the role. Philippa Boyens said she knew they’d made the right choice when Mortensen’s very first question wasn’t “How much is my salary?” or “How big is my trailer?” but rather “How long did Aragorn live with the Elves?”

If Mortensen had turned down the role New Line was going to take over casting from Jackson. Their first choices were Russell Crowe or Jason Patric.

BTW, Keanu Reeves really wanted the role and apparently his agent floated a few rumors that the casting was a done deal. Needless to say, the resultant storm of protest on TORn was deafening.

******************************************
“That hobbit has a pleasant face,
His private life is a disgrace.
I really could not tell to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.”


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 10 2013, 10:39pm


Views: 13334
Talk about the minefield averted! Other than Daniel Day Lewis,

the rest were terrible choices. Nicolage Cage?!!
Vin Diesel?!! Keanu Reeves?! (maybe as an elf).


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Sep 11 2013, 1:00am


Views: 13242
Agreed

They would have been terrible choices. I'm glad they picked Viggo. I thought he did well and fit the image.


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Sep 11 2013, 1:01am


Views: 13216
That first image of Eastwood isn't bad

He kind of looks like an Aragorn. But I'm still content with Viggo.


Meneldor
Valinor


Sep 11 2013, 1:07am


Views: 13270
Why did DDL say no?

Was he worried about being typecast after Last of the Mohicans?

That's a beloved movie I haven't seen in a while. Time to dig through my DVDs.


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.


Darkstone
Immortal


Sep 11 2013, 1:41am


Views: 13266
Well, as I recall...

First time it conflicted with a commitment to play "Priest" Vallon in The Gangs of New York. (Of course he didn't end up playing that role.)

The second time, when Jackson thought DDL would be be done with the minor role of Vallon, PJ learned DDL had switched to the major role of Bill "The Butcher" Cutting, so DDL still wasn't finished with The Gangs of New York..

The third time, DDL seems to have given the reason that fifteen months was just too long to commit to a role on the other side of the world away from his family.

******************************************
“That hobbit has a pleasant face,
His private life is a disgrace.
I really could not tell to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.”


cats16
Half-elven


Sep 11 2013, 2:03am


Views: 13270
Knowing DDL's working style...

I can only imagine the amount of preparation he would have required for the role--nonstop reading of all major Tolkien works in a short time, to begin. Shooting the film is only a minor part for him. But as you say, it would have been quite a commitment itself in reality for DDL and his family.


Patty
Immortal


Sep 11 2013, 11:56am


Views: 13218
Indeed, although...

With the right amount of scruffiness, Keanu might not have been too horrific. Any of the rest of those would have been the kiss of death, although, admittedly I thought the same thing about Sean Astin until I saw the movie. Now I know he was a perfect choice for Sam.

Permanent address: Into the West






Lala
Registered User

Sep 11 2013, 12:54pm


Views: 13178
Kenau would be perfect for...Figwit!

Wink


CuriousG
Half-elven


Sep 11 2013, 6:11pm


Views: 13180
Vin Diesel with or without the see-in-the-dark eyes?

I think he'd be much too large to play that role. He'd be more of a Boromir. When the two of them cleared the snow for the others on Caradhras, Aragorn was taller and thinner than Boromir, and I'd think a Ranger, even with a healthy diet in Rivendell, wouldn't have Diesel's bodybuilder look to him from living in the wild.

In the book I pictured Aragorn as more clean-cut, the king-in-waiting, but I realized for the movie it's hard to get one actor to look both roguish like Strider and refined like King Aragorn, so I think Viggo was a good choice for the Ranger look. But I don't think he could have pulled off the book scene at the Argonath where he looks all kingly and dignified. Even at his coronation scene in the movie, Viggo looked rough and out of place, IMO.


CuriousG
Half-elven


Sep 11 2013, 6:13pm


Views: 13145
I could see Russell Crowe as Aragorn. //

 


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 11 2013, 6:36pm


Views: 13191
I agree, I think Russell Crowe could have, but he was just

coming off of Gladiator. "The film was shot in three main locations between January-May 1999. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/...ladiator_(2000_film)

Hugh Jackman was involved with X Men.

"Principal photography began in September 1999 and ended in March 2000, in Toronto, Canada"

http://en.wikipedia.org/.../X-Men_(film_series)


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Sep 11 2013, 6:40pm)


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 11 2013, 6:45pm


Views: 13196
Fantasy rendering of Sir Clintagorn

http://thebrotherhoodofevilgeeks.files.wordpress.com/...3-e1363665565372.jpg


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Sep 11 2013, 6:45pm)


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Sep 12 2013, 9:37am


Views: 13135
Daniel Day Lewis

matches Aragorns physical description in the book perfectly. Many of the other actors are too stocky to play the tall lean ranger.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 12 2013, 12:45pm


Views: 13143
So, what if you had to cast Aragorn young?

Not Estel young (as a 10 year-old boy), but as a young adult around 25 to 27 years old? Say, you wanted to depict the first meeting of Aragorn and Gandalf the Grey, and the years immediately following.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 12 2013, 2:50pm


Views: 13098
Difficult as there are a lot of unknown actors who could

probably be perfect physical matches.

A physique like Chris Hemsworth?

http://0.tqn.com/...chris-hemsworth2.jpg


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 12 2013, 2:54pm


Views: 13097
Ironically...

Stuart Townsend, when he was cast as Aragorn in LotR, would have been good for the character as a young Ranger. Now, of course, he is actually the right age to play the older Aragorn.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 12 2013, 3:14pm


Views: 13117
I never thought he had the right look. His face is too sinister in so

many photos. A good vampire.


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Sep 12 2013, 3:14pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 12 2013, 3:16pm


Views: 13067
Quite possibly true. However...

Many people might have said the same thing about Viggo Mortensen after seeing his portrayal of Lucifer in The Prophecy. So, I'm trying to be fair.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 12 2013, 3:23pm


Views: 13154
Townsend as Aragorn.

This was from his LOTR days

http://media.aintitcool.com/...townsend-aragorn.jpg

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/4076


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Sep 12 2013, 3:23pm)


shadowdog
Rohan

Sep 12 2013, 4:15pm


Views: 13067
So why

was Townsend let go? I wasn't into production details prior to seeing Fellowship in the theater. I heard he was considered too young; but also that there were other problems.


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 12 2013, 4:27pm


Views: 13107
Well, when they say "it just was not working" either he was not

able to bring enough gravitas in his performance or the look was recognized as just too young etc.

I am sure it was a terrible thing to have happen to a young actor, but he seems to have weathered it ok.

He said this:

"I was there rehearsing and training for two months, then was fired the day before filming began. After that I was told they wouldn't pay me because I was in breach of contract due to not having worked long enough. I had been having a rough time with them, so I was almost relieved to be leaving until they told me I wouldn't be paid. I have no good feelings for those people in charge, I really don't. The director wanted me and then apparently thought better of it because he really wanted someone 20 years older than me and completely different."
http://www.thefantasyforum.com/...t-Townsend-get-fired


Na Vedui
Rohan


Sep 12 2013, 10:51pm


Views: 5942
Bizarre

How on earth can someone be "in breach of contact" when it's the employer who has fired them, rather than they who are walking out?


Na Vedui
Rohan


Sep 13 2013, 12:33am


Views: 6017
Oops!

That should be "contract" ,not "contact".


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 13 2013, 10:42pm


Views: 5940
Sean Bean would've rocked it too

He's perfect Boromir but he would've made better Aragorn than Viggo Mortensen who overplayed Aragorn's reluctancy and just didn't have a strong voice for St Crispian Day speech.

Another one is Hugh Jackman who is mega charisma and can sing (which Viggo Mortensen really couldn't hence whiny-voiced mumbling during the coronation).

Mortensen was good but not irreplaceable in my book. His voice is really meh, not manly and epic. Bernard Hill's motivational speech buried Mortensen's. Like, totally obliterated it.

Also Richard Armitage. Splended baritone. I hope he gets an epic speech in TABA.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Sep 13 2013, 10:44pm)


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 13 2013, 11:03pm


Views: 5982
That is my only disappointment with Viggo's ability

He nailed the Aragorn look and I was A-Ok with the demeanor as the reluctant king. HIs great speech scene demonstrated that his vocal range is too shrill for such a motivating effort. He tried, I think to lower his octave a note or two at times but yes, I agree, it was a little weak.

Hugh Jackman could have pulled it off very well I think.


Patty
Immortal


Sep 14 2013, 1:03am


Views: 5904
Chris Helmsworth

would have done a great job, IMHO. When Thor is on screen I cannot look away.Tongue
I still prefer who we got, though!

Permanent address: Into the West






ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Sep 14 2013, 4:46am


Views: 5894
Reluctant king

wasn't Viggos doing, it was another fantabulous PJ & Co change.

Chris Hemsworth aint resembling no Dunedain, mind you neither are Sean Bean or David Wenham I mean sheesh how hard is it to find tall, dark haired, noble looking grey eyed men.


Misto
Lorien

Sep 14 2013, 9:11am


Views: 5864
Except for...

the fact that Aragorn survives. Not sure he would be able to handle thatCool


(This post was edited by Misto on Sep 14 2013, 9:11am)


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 14 2013, 10:31am


Views: 5837
he's a major charisma

And you are absolutely right - mesmerizing to watch. Funny thing is, I used to imagine Legolas and Elves to be like that. I never got the feeling from the books that their men were of feminine features or that the whole race had pointy ears. I actually thought their men were manliest of men, just like Hemsworth, and that they didn't have some physical degeneration such as ears that set them apart They were just taller, stronger, handsomer, some of them with the light of Valinor. Mind you, I think that they captured Fair Folk with Bloom (who's lean, pretty and anti-Hemsworth physically) perfectly so I cannot imagine another Legolas now. But before the movies, when I read the books, Hemsworth-type of physique was what I got from them.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Sep 14 2013, 10:33am)


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 14 2013, 10:42am


Views: 5855
Scribes aren't the only one to blame

They changed the character from confident King-in-making to reluctant one alright but Mortensen overplayed it. There was really no reason for him to look so uncomfortable and insecure at the coronation, like he wanted to run away and hide. That's overplaying and by that time Aragorn was supposed to confidently accept his destiny as a King. Even "For Frodo" speech played out like he was scared too. That's not the way of giving the motivational speech to your troops and no wonder it was completely upstaged by Théoden's powerful one.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



RangerLady23
Lorien

Sep 14 2013, 4:50pm


Views: 5834
I'm not saying others wouldn't have worked

but I am SO totally happy with Viggo.


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 14 2013, 5:03pm


Views: 5807
I agree, my post was not meant to show any displeasure

with Viggo at all. I think he was perfect other than some things beyond his control. When I was first reading the LOTR in the early 1970s the figure that came to mind as the rugged ranger was Clint's man with no name. It got me thinking of other actors who could also have pulled off the role.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 14 2013, 5:08pm


Views: 5825
I always thought that Aragorn was a role for someone who'd break out

like Wolverine was for Hugh Jackman. That kind of casting, an actor or actress who would have real star power and go on to bigger things, is what I miss about LOTR and The Hobbit. There's no Ford/ Jackman/Downey/DiCaprio/Jennifer Lawrence/Chris Hemsworth type of future star. That's what I missed about Star Wars Prequels too. Lack of larger than life presence that continues after the series is over.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



malickfan
Gondor


Sep 14 2013, 5:08pm


Views: 5818
Thoughts:

Clive Owen as he is now- he is old enough, dark haired, british (not that that materrs), tall, great in both dramatic and lighthearted roles, though perhaps not the right build physically

Guy Pearce-he's great. end of discussion.

Timothy Dalton as he was during the early 90's-late forties, dark haired, very serious actor, the looks and build to pull of the role, but not exactly a major star who would have the baggage of cage etc.

I always loved John Hurt as Aragorn in the rankin bass version, and providing he bulked up a little I think he'd be perfect for a 'book' Aragorn in a live action film.

Liam Neeson Maybe???

I don't have much to say.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 14 2013, 5:21pm


Views: 5834
They did have the right idea when they pondered Daniel Day Lewis

But I can see why he turned it down. The Last of Mochicans was basically Aragorn-type of role so he didn't want to repeat himself.

OTOH, I cannot get enough chuckle from Sean Connery's turning down Gandalf and Dumbledore because he "didn't get it". What's there to get? LaughLaughLaugh Oh, Sean.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Maciliel
Valinor


Sep 14 2013, 5:23pm


Views: 5830
breakouts

 
mortenson is arguably very much a breakout star of lotr. he had been around a long time, doing roles that he wanted to do, but he wasn't well-known. lotr gave him breakout recognition and high praise, and he's continuing to do great work in worthy productions (still doing his own thing), and he's probably got better roles from which to choose. his (wonderful) partnership with cronenberg (a history of violence, eastern promises, a dangerous method) is likely a product of this post-lotr recognition.

armitage is also on the same road. been around a while, doing good work, but not a household name. i think, considering the incredible reaction and recognition his performance in auj has garnered, that he can absolutely be considered a breakout. he has a much higher profile (by an order of magnitude) and this will translate into better roles on better projects. he'll have more from which to pick.


cheers --


.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 14 2013, 5:43pm


Views: 5843
IMO,only real breakout star of LOTR is Peter Jackson

not any specific actor. Jackson was undisputed star. He juggled insane production on the scale like nothing ever seen before, pulled off a grueling task of filming 3 movies back to back and they turned out amazing against all odds (the books were considered unfilmable). While actors got exposure and some are still doing fine, I wouldn't say anyone achieved the stature of Jackson or, comparable to breakouts form other franchise, of actors I listed in previous post. The movies just aren't showcases for actors. They are truly director's baby.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Sep 14 2013, 5:44pm)


Maciliel
Valinor


Sep 14 2013, 5:47pm


Views: 5810
while i

 
... certainly agree with you that jackson was a breakout talent from the films, i disagree that he was the only one (especially citing the evidence from my previous post).

we must agree to disagree -- but -- that does not stop us from enjoying the fruits of everyone's creative labors who were (and are -- because they're ongoing) involved in these films.


cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Kim
Valinor


Sep 14 2013, 6:49pm


Views: 5792
Of course, I have to agree with you

about Richard, and do hope this leads to more opportunities for him. Smile

And how the heck to the Grey Havens keep getting an upgrade?! Tongue


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 14 2013, 11:19pm


Views: 5949
I want him to be Roland Deschain the Gunslinger

in Dark Tower series. Russell Crowe (currently attached) is too puffy, Xavier Bardem (previously attached) doesn't even have blue eyes and isn't lanky, Viggo Mortensen (fan-casting) is too old and vanilla and just look at this picture:

http://www.scificincinnati.com/images/wolves_684.jpg

That jet black hair, those noble aquiline features, those blue eyes, the lanky frame...he is Roland. I'm not settling for anyone else. Armitage is the dead ringer to the character. he doesn't even need American accent cause Rolan is from Gilead, a fictional land in a parallel universe, not America. So if they decide to make Dark Tower movies after all, I hope he fights tooth and nail for the role. There's no one else who fits this well. No one.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Sep 15 2013, 3:15am


Views: 5901
Here, here!

The ones behind the camera are too often forgotten.


Arannir
Valinor


Sep 15 2013, 3:11pm


Views: 5781
Well...

LotR was an ensemble-piece, acting-wise. And had to be... that is a big difference to many of the actors you have listed who had much more centralized roles to play.

Still, the casting has always been praised for LotR... similar to the series LOST whose cast was very well received but had no real stand-outs (at least not outside of the fanbase). Unfortunately there is no Ensemble-Oscar which LotR probably would have won at least once during the three years.

Other than that one could argue that Orlando Bloom had a certain break out via LotR (at least popularity wise), especially since he came straight from acting school. Mortensen, however, did not go down the popularity road. But probably thanks to his exposure with LotR he was able to do "smaller" productions, one of them giving him an Oscar nomination.

"Break-out" is a very ambigious term without knowing the actor's intention. Some might use the success of something like LotR not for a blockbuster-Hollywood-Oscar career, but as creative license to do whatever they please to do.



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 15 2013, 5:41pm


Views: 5781
ROTK won SAG for Ensemble

It's an indicator of which movie might win Best Picture at the Oscars, but not always.

I disagree about Lost where Michael Emerson (Ben Linus) and Terry O'Quinn (John Locke) were considered standouts by more than just fans and managed several Emmy nominations in supporting actor category. I'm pretty sure that Evie was nominated for Golden Globe for Lost season 1 but I never cared for TV Globes and TV SAG so I'm not 100% there.

Ian Mckellen was also singled out by Globes, SAG, BAFTA and Oscars for FOTR and BAFTA for ROTK (although New Line heavily yet unsuccessfully campaigned Sean Astin in the same category). Speaking of Oscar campaign for actors, I really think that New Line mishandled ROTK. They campaigned too many actors without any tracking (Mortensen in the Lead, Wood in the lead, Otto in supporting, Hill in supporting, Serkis in supporting) who they shouldn't have wasted their time on. Those guys weren't going to happen because absolutely no precursor gave them any attention. So all those actors were distracting from 2 that actually had some tracking - Astin who was nominated and won some critics awards and McKellen who snagged BAFTA nom. I think that, if they focused on Astin and dropped others, he could have landed a nomination. Mind you, campaigning ensemble to SAG and Best Picture doesn't require to campaign each and every actor who appeared in the movie in individual categories. So that was a terrible waste to spread support on actors and actress who weren't in any awards conversation (Entertainment Weekly's fan-service dream of Andy's nom doesn't count as relevant awards buzz) whereas they should have backed just one who had enough tracking. It isn't a knock on those performers, just that real contender shouldn't be sacrificed so that a group of non-contenders doesn't feel excluded.

I don't count Bloom as a breakout because he really lucked out to be in some big movies where main draw was someone or something else, not him. Once he tried to fly solo he bombed immediately and never recovered, hence proving he never had anything to do with the success of those other movies with different leads.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Arannir
Valinor


Sep 15 2013, 7:47pm


Views: 5775
Never recovered? How do we know what kind of plans, offers etc. he had/has?


In Reply To


I don't count Bloom as a breakout because he really lucked out to be in some big movies where main draw was someone or something else, not him. Once he tried to fly solo he bombed immediately and never recovered, hence proving he never had anything to do with the success of those other movies with different leads.




“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


elaen32
Gondor


Sep 15 2013, 9:49pm


Views: 5755
Thinking about it......

RA as he is now would have been a good fit for Aragorn. Back when LOTR was filming he was too young, however. However, he is tall, dark, handsome, but not in a "pretty" way. And is enigmatic and charismatic in many ways.Smile


Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!



Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 15 2013, 11:06pm


Views: 5765
he hasn't been in anything relevant since LOTR

Lets be honest here, his whole career was based on his good looks. When that didn't work (Kingdom of Heaven and Elizabethtown flops) he had nothing else to fall back on. No critical acclaim for anything. Nice notices such as "looks great as an Elf" do not equal critical acclaim. Also, he is 36 and there are so many actors around that age who do great work on top of looking great - Michael Fassbender, Bradley Cooper, Tom Hardy, Joseph Gordon Levitt, Tom Hiddleston, still in his 30s Leonardo DiCaprio, Channing Tatum, just to name a few. I have hard time imagining actor's directors passing on any of them in favor of Bloom. I mean, stranger things happened and it's possible that he improved so much in the meantime he blows away competition. But he said he wants to return to POTC. That and returning to Hobbit are the safest choices one could make career-wise. So I really see no evidence that he is interested in anything other than get a spot in a big movie that sells by itself. I know that he made some small movies but I don't recall any buzz about his performances and I follow festivals from Sundance to TIFF and awards chatter.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Arannir
Valinor


Sep 15 2013, 11:49pm


Views: 5989
I would still say...

... that LotR was quite a break out for an actor coming right from acting school - although there is no debate about the fact that he has never reached the heights of most of the people you list.

My main point remains that I do not really feel like LotR was a perfect trilogy to base a "break-out" on (for people like Wood it might have had the reverse effect of simply being "Frodo" afterwards). There was acclaim, especially for McKellen and some other individual performances depending on which part we are talking about. If Aragorn would have been cast younger - coming back to the original argument whether that was a break-out role or not - I could see that role giving a younger actor quite some buzz (considering that Viggo already got quite a lot even from the younger fanbase) but am not surprised at all that the "larger than life" thing you are looking for did not happen to him or most of the cast members. I still see the main reason for this in the huge ensemble (I am coming back to LOST, as both Terry O'Quinn and Michael Emerson have had their share of praise, but their projects after LOST did not come close to those roles by far), not so much the skills of most of them. And also the fact that both LotR and TH were always movies people talked a lot about the director, about Tolkien, about the visuals, about the enormity of the project etc. It was not really the environment in which one actor concentrates almost all buzz on himself. And opposite to you, I do not miss this at all.



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Sep 16 2013, 12:02am


Views: 5978
Couldn't agree more to be honest.

I was just thinking about this and then saw your post. I was first thinking RA was a nice fit for Boromir, Faramir and of then of course that naturally leads to Aragorn also.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 16 2013, 12:05am


Views: 5977
Oh I agree that those movies are not star vehicles for actors

but showcase for directors who really are the heart and soul of the whole enormous project. Not every movie needs to be an actor vehicle. I'd say that Marty Freeman very wisely negotiated that he gets time off to film Sherlock while doing The Hobbit. Just in case that transition form TV to movies doesn't work out he has his acclaimed hit show to fall back on.

Bloom did get a break from LOTR but since he couldn't sustain interest I wouldn't say he ever really happened. Flash in a pan kind of fame akin to Hayden Christensen, while franchise lasts.

I agree that Mortensen was already too old but I don't think he would happen in a big way even if he was younger. He just isn't charismatic. Nor Stuart Townsend would happen if he played Aragorn. No charisma, tardiness and low range. It's like never-ending debate whether Dougray Scott would happen if he played Wolverine as originally planned and what of Jackman in that case? No, Scott would not happen and Jackman would because Jackman has X Factor and even if it took longer he would get there. Not to mention multi-talent. Scott is not a star material.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Maciliel
Valinor


Sep 16 2013, 12:45am


Views: 5980
charisma

 
... must indeed be allotted to the eye of the beholder.

charisma cannot exist in isolation. it is only evidenced by its impact on others.

there are many who would say that mortensen is quite charismatic, i am most sure.

i've seen him on colbert and letterman, and he was effortlessly (and seemingly guilelessly) charming. i have also seen many of his films, diverse roles. i think he does have charisma, while acknowledging that others may or may not see it so.


cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 16 2013, 12:56am


Views: 5988
Some actors have great charisma off screen in interviews but not on it

Ben Affleck is one of prime examples. he's super charismatic when he gives interviews and a total plank of wood in movies. While I don't think Mortensen is a plank, I do find him rather bland.

And rather than in the eye of a beholder, charisma is measured by ability to open movies. When someone has it, everyone sees it. That's why it's called X Factor - the unexplained something that sets stars (people with ability to draw massive audience on their name) apart from the rest. Term star has been abused, as is A Lister, and attached to anyone who achieved some level of fame (yes, even Snookie) but it really means power to draw audience. Likewise, blockbuster now means a big-budget movie that's also a big hit whereas it really only means big budget movie. And A List is way shorter than people think and it's so closely guarded that when media announces so and so is new A-list they are only guessing.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Starling
Half-elven


Sep 16 2013, 1:14am


Views: 5970
I beg to differ

Your definition of charisma is exactly that - your definition.


Maciliel
Valinor


Sep 16 2013, 1:15am


Views: 5975
charisma

 
is not limited to the acting profession, and even among actors it is not limited to being considered able to open a movie. which is rather a nebulous definition at that, considering the trend in recent hollywood years to go for blockbuster and mega-blockbuster. because of this hyper-focus on the blockbuster, movies that make decent profits can be considered disappointing or even failures, just because they weren't this year's star wars. which i find ridiculous. (also, a movie may open on the strength of the fanbase for the storyverse, which may be difficult to separate from the drawing power of an actor.)

i think mortensen has a lot of charisma, but i also think he tends to be an understated performer. i very much appreciate his approach, and can deliver a wide range of characters... from aragorn to tom stahl in "a history of violence," to a russian mob guy in "eastern promises."

trying to be the arbiter of charisma or x factor or star power is an untenable position. charisma is also connected to what people recognize. what is familiar. people may be drawn to films with actor A because actor A is regularly offered / takes roles that are similar. the public knows what it will get. it's self-selecting. and not wholly based on the attractions of a particular actor, but predictability. hollywood is formulaic, and the movie-going public often is also. hollywood would certainly stop making drek (which is also in the eye of the beholder) if people stopped going. just stayed home and read a book, instead.


cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo

(This post was edited by Maciliel on Sep 16 2013, 1:16am)


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 16 2013, 10:39am


Views: 5945
Charisma and drawing power are not limited to predictability

Or Hidalgo and Kingdom of Heaven would not have been huge flops that they were. Mortensen played Aragorn cowboy in Hidalgo and Bloom played yet another blacksmith with secret paternity in Kingdom of Heaven. Both movies failed to open and hold in later weeks. And those roles were as predictable as it gets. Doing another Aragorn-like role right after LOTR and another blacksmith-turned-something-else right after POTC.

Granted, there are actors such as Adam Sandler who are bankable (aka can open) only in one genre but other openers are crossovers (Pitt, DiCaprio, Tatum last year opened 3 different movies, Smith) so they are not predictable.

We won't agree on what charisma is because everyone wants their actor to be considered charismatic so any definition is fine. I go by boxoffice numbers - you open big, you have it - you go by personal charm. All good. I just don't think that saying someone lacks charisma as in star (opening) power is an insult. Very few actors have that kind of presence so it really isn't a contest that who has it is better than who doesn't. Arnie is terrifically charismatic but not the best actor around. My point was that I just miss that terrific charisma such as Gibson in Braveheart, Crowe in Gladiator, Hemsworth in Thor or Douglas in Spartacus in Middle Earth movies. Epic charisma in an epic movie. I'm just not getting that. I do understand that Jackson doesn't want one to overpower many which is valid point. It's just my personal preference for actors with mesmerizing presence, especially in this type of a movie.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 16 2013, 10:41am


Views: 5944
True, my definition is boxoffice power

since we've been discussing movies. I wasn't defining off screen charisma but only on screen one that draws audience. That one is a rare bird. But off screen one, sure, many actors have it.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Maciliel
Valinor


Sep 16 2013, 7:13pm


Views: 5925
not limited

 
i agree (and have stated) that charisma is not limited to predictability.... there are factors other than charisma (+many+ other factors) that make a movie bankable, and make a star bankable.

i don't see a parallel at all between the character mortensen played in "hidalgo" and aragorn. other than they both rode horses. if that's the only criterion, then that would make the role of aragorn equivalent to elizabeth taylor in "national velvet." (i tease.) "kingdom of heaven" i did not see, but bloom's role in it does not seem like it would be "another blacksmith." perhaps someone else who has seen both can comment further.

an actor (and leading man) whom i think has loads of charisma onscreen but whom isn't necessarily considered an "opener" is gabriel byrne (also immensely talented; charisma doesn't mean talent). i also interviewed him in person (i used to do press junkets when i did reviews and interviews for a major entertainment network), and he was excessively charming in his actual persona.

if a studio / director gives someone the lead, at some level, they must think that person will be able to open the movie. that the casting will assist in bringing in audiences. for a time, jeff goldblum was attached to megablockbuster after megablockbuster, but was he actually the one shouldering "opening duties," or was it the dinosaurs ("jurassic park") and aliens ("independence day")? there are many ingredients involved in a good opening, but (again) hollywood keeps upping the dollar benchmark for blockbuster. it's no longer enough to make money, or even make a lot of money. it has to stagger the imagination. which seems to translate into bigger operating budgets, and at those budgets, the studios are unwilling to take risks on lesser-known actors, so we keep seeing the same ones (e.g., cruise) over and over again. so, is cruise really so bankable, or is it partly that studios are risk-averse, only attach cruise to the blockbusters, so audiences just keep seeing him? the equation is extremely complex.

if you take a moment to go back and read my earlier post, you will see that i don't limit my definition of charisma to mean personal charm. there is an on-screen charisma as well. i just don't equate on-screen charisma to bankability. also (again from my post) i don't really care (i'm saying that respectfully) if you or someone else does not agree with me that mortensen has on-screen charisma. the point i was making was that charisma is in the eye of the beholder, and that on-screen charisma is not the same thing as bankability or the ability to open a movie.

interestingly, the films you mention ("braveheart," "gladiator," "thor," "spartacus") were not ensemble pieces, but had clear leads. some discussion was made upthread about ensemble films vs. lead role showcases. fwiw, i think many actors in lotr have a mesmerizing presence (bernard hill, ian mckellan, elijah wood, andy serkis).

cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 16 2013, 7:41pm


Views: 5932
Agreed about Mckellen

But, IMO, Wood is a poster boy for charisma black hole. even many ciritcs pointed out that other actros stole the movie from him.

Now Andy's an interesting case and if have to pick a true LOTR breakouts among actors, he would be it. He didn't brust right out of the gate (only to fizzle quickly like Bloom) but is now headlining his own franchise (Apes) which is more than other LOTR actors have under their belts at the moment. It's also unexpected (I bet that 10 years ago bets were made for other actors to do better than Serkis) and therefore totally awesome. It;s one of my favorite movie stardom twists, you know when some actors aree xpected to happen for this and that reason but unlikliest of them (cause he was hidden under digital make-up) leaves them in the dust. He trully found a niche for himself where he's an undisputed king and it's finally paying off.

As for Hidalgo, it didn't help that Disney advertised it with "the King has returned" (not the actor's fault) and that the actor was promoting this family movie with a gross-out anecdote about roasting a roadkill (totally his fault).

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 17 2013, 5:12am


Views: 5917
Seeing this article brings to mind why I thought Eastwood was a

perfect model for a rugged ranger. He has a son, Scott, who is an actor - I know nothing about him - but he certainly inherited Clint's looks. I could see him playing such a ranger role (assuming his acting skills are solid).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...27-making-terms.html

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/...05DC-433_634x838.jpg

I would love some new Spaghetti Westerns...


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Sep 17 2013, 5:21am)


glor
Rohan

Sep 18 2013, 12:22pm


Views: 5902
I will try and be tactful

Sometimes film industry producers/studios/directors, say that X actor cast for the role wasnot suitable, was a casting mistake on their part, for legal reasons/matters of politeness when that isn't exactly the truth, the actor cast was difficult to work with.

Unfortunately, whilst I am not party to the full truth like yourself, there are comment to that effect surounding the actor in question from several projects he has worked on.


Magpie
Immortal


Sep 18 2013, 12:41pm


Views: 5905
That photo is often used to show Townsend in makeup as Aragorn

but it's been debunked as actually being that. I can't remember if it's from another movie or photoshopped. But it's not 'Aragorn'.


Townsend isn't the only actor who left after being "attached" for LOTR.

Kevin Conway had been set to play Theoden.

I wrote a post about it here: http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=279890#279890


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


glor
Rohan

Sep 18 2013, 12:50pm


Views: 5880
Christopher Ecclestone

would have made a fantastic Aragorn ( he can look rugged), he has the voice and the ability for commanding performances.

I agree with you on the Viggo Aragorn thing, it wasn't the script, it was Viggo's inability to be kingly enough, to radiate the regalness, the, OK I am going to say it, the majesty Wink necessary to convey Aragorn's right to the throne of Gondor in ROTK. Viggo was a great ranger, he was Strider but like you say, he just wasn't Aragorn.

Dominic West would have also been a good choice if they had stayed with the younger Townsend idea for casting.

The upside is that as they didn't play Aragorn, they did play the leads in two of the most significant drama shows of the 2000s; the genius of casting Ecclestone in the reboot of that BBC classic Dr Who, that made the reboot such a success. It was at the time the British equivalent of announcing a Star Trek TV reboot with Sean Penn as Captain Kirk, intriguing and raised the first series of the 'new' Dr Who to a new level. Dominic west of course played the lead in The Wire generally regarded as one of the great masterpieces of TV, and revolutionary. If


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 4:25pm


Views: 5868
I am not really familiar with Eccleston, but

I favor Viggo's look, though Eccleston would not have been bad. His nose is a little too prominent.

http://swotti.starmedia.com/...her%20eccleston2.jpg

More of a Wizard look.


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Sep 18 2013, 4:25pm)


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 4:26pm


Views: 5861
Good to know. I think the photo, whatever its origin, at least

is a good representation of his look as Aragorn.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 18 2013, 4:56pm


Views: 5854
prominent nose is one of reasons why Cate doesn't work as Galadriel for me

An Elf should have a perfect nose. Cate is a beautiful woman but an Elf woman, the second most beautiful woman in the world, must not have a polarizing distracting feature.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 5:29pm


Views: 5851
Very few humans have a "perfect nose" but I do see your

point. However, for me, it was not distracting enough to ruin her portrayal. Her overall presence was well matched for the role.

I can't recall of JRRT ever described elven noses.


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Sep 18 2013, 5:30pm)


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 18 2013, 5:35pm


Views: 5842
he didn't describe ears either

and yet they ended up with unflattering garden gnome ones. Laugh

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 6:05pm


Views: 5845
Well, maybe he did suggest elven ears

"it was stated in early linguistic writings that "the Quendian ears were more pointed and leaf-shaped than Human."[3][4] Answering to a question on Hobbit ears, Tolkien wrote that these were "only slightly pointed and 'elvish'".[5] Some fans take this to mean that Elvish ears were pointed, while others argue that it is an ambiguous statement.[1][2]"

http://tolkiengateway.net/...lven_Characteristics

↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Lost Road and Other Writings, "Part Three: The Etymologies", p. 368 (roots LAS1 and LAS2)
↑ J.R.R. Tolkien, "Addenda and Corrigenda to the Etymologies — Part One" (edited by Carl F. Hostetter and Patrick H. Wynne), in Vinyar Tengwar, Number 45, November 2003, p. 26


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Sep 18 2013, 6:05pm)


Maciliel
Valinor


Sep 18 2013, 6:16pm


Views: 5841
i have no idea

 
what a "perfect" nose is. to my knowledge, there is no mathematical or other standard. millimeters, proportions, ratios to other parts of the face. there is no definition of "perfect," so i honestly have no idea what you mean.

you certainly are the sole arbiter of what you (personally) think of as "perfect," and also what you think is appropriate for the appearance of an elf, a dwarf, or a human.

i'm not trying to be troublesome here, but this notion of "perfect" is really a personal aesthetic, not an objective one.


cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


frodolives
Lorien

Sep 18 2013, 6:27pm


Views: 5863
My choices for Aragorn

Liam Neeson
http://images.dailyexpress.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/285x214/104687_1.jpg

Ciaran Hinds (my top choice)
http://www.criticcinema.com/graphics/tiff/hinds1.jpg

Nathaniel Parker
http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/26700000/Nathaniel-Parker-nathaniel-parker-26797801-156-208.jpg


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 6:32pm


Views: 5840
Hmmm, Abelforth Dumbledore

He would be a more mature in age Aragorn. Not quite as handsome.

Something about Nathaniel Parker says Bard.


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Sep 18 2013, 6:33pm)


Brethil
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 6:35pm


Views: 5819
Agreed

I find Cate's presence to fit quite well with my internal picture of Galadriel (also subjective). As lovely but not 'delicate'

Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!








frodolives
Lorien

Sep 18 2013, 6:42pm


Views: 5968
He wasn't much older than Viggo


In Reply To
He would be a more mature in age Aragorn. Not quite as handsome.

Keep in mind that Hinds was about 45 in 1999; a perfect age for Aragorn IMHO. He's got a commanding voice and presence, a weathered face, etc. He will always be my dream choice for the role.


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 6:45pm


Views: 5957
I think the Golden Ratio and Pi are being used for proportions

http://www.goldennumber.net/face/


Maciliel
Valinor


Sep 18 2013, 6:54pm


Views: 5959
golden spiral

 
perhaps if cate blanchet's nose was in the shape of a nautilus shell, it might be considered logarithmically perfect. also, a fibonacci spiral nose would be equally acceptable.


cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 6:57pm


Views: 5967
Indeed! Nautilus nose.

 


walkman87
Registered User

Sep 19 2013, 6:36pm


Views: 5951
Mortensen has plenty of charisma

The fact that Viggo has not been involved in blockbusters since LOTR has absolutely nothing to do with his level of charisma as an actor – of which he has plenty. His involvement in smaller, independent films has entirely been his choice. He has always chosen roles based on his interest in the story and the quality of director/script, not based on the budget or Hollywood marketing machine. His well-deserved renown following the LOTR trilogy has enabled him to decline roles that didn’t meet his personal criteria, while enabling him to select those that did. His renown following LOTR also enabled him to establish his own publishing house to publish the works of artists and photographers who might not otherwise get exposure.
He has received numerous accolades and awards from those in the film community that recognize the level of dedication, skill, and charisma that he brings to all his roles. He was nominated for a Best Actor Oscar a couple years ago, as well as a couple Golden Globes as prime examples.


walkman87
Registered User

Sep 19 2013, 6:41pm


Views: 5943
Viggo is majestic

I totally disagree……….Viggo does indeed demonstrate a sense of majesty as his character transitions from Ranger to King in ROTK. Not only do the shifts in his costuming, hair, etc., show this transition, but also his demeanor as he leads the Men of the West to the Black Gate. I find his Black Gate speech to be one filled with raw emotion and energy, and completely in keeping with what one would expect on the verge of a battle none might survive. At his coronation, it makes perfect sense that he should take a deep breath – it’s not every day that one becomes a king after all. Stepping into that role, whether one’s prepared for it all his life or not, is not something to be taken lightly. When the sheer weight of responsibility settles on one’s shoulders at last, it would be ridiculous to act like it’s a walk in the park. I think Viggo’s handling of that moment was right on target, as was his song – melody composed by the actor himself – delivered flawlessly in Tolkien’s Elvish script.


walkman87
Registered User

Sep 19 2013, 6:43pm


Views: 5959
The Treasure we did get

While talking about other “could-have-beens” for the role of Aragorn, let’s not overlook the absolute treasure that we DID get in Viggo. From day 1, he was 100% committed to this project and very quickly came to be known as “no-ego Viggo” by the cast and crew. He approached the role of Aragorn with a level of intensity and devotion that did not go unnoticed by his cast mates. I think it would be hard to find another actor who would have approached this role with this level of dedication.
Viggo is an actor who does indeed have incredible screen presence and charisma – one who can speak volumes with his eyes and overall expressions without ever having to say a word. This is the guy who showed up on set with no prior preparation for the role – given the circumstances of his casting – with a copy of the Volsunga Saga tucked under his arm. This is the guy that practically lived in his costume, often mending, and laundering it himself, and who did his own stunts throughout the grueling production. He took to the Elvish dialect and sword fighting like a duck to water – despite the LOTR films being his first introduction to both.


(This post was edited by walkman87 on Sep 19 2013, 6:48pm)


Brethil
Half-elven


Sep 19 2013, 7:16pm


Views: 5925
I agree here Walkman - and Welcome! //


In Reply To
I totally disagree……….Viggo does indeed demonstrate a sense of majesty as his character transitions from Ranger to King in ROTK. Not only do the shifts in his costuming, hair, etc., show this transition, but also his demeanor as he leads the Men of the West to the Black Gate. I find his Black Gate speech to be one filled with raw emotion and energy, and completely in keeping with what one would expect on the verge of a battle none might survive. At his coronation, it makes perfect sense that he should take a deep breath – it’s not every day that one becomes a king after all. Stepping into that role, whether one’s prepared for it all his life or not, is not something to be taken lightly. When the sheer weight of responsibility settles on one’s shoulders at last, it would be ridiculous to act like it’s a walk in the park. I think Viggo’s handling of that moment was right on target, as was his song – melody composed by the actor himself – delivered flawlessly in Tolkien’s Elvish script.


Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!








walkman87
Registered User

Sep 19 2013, 7:37pm


Views: 5923
Thanks, Brethil!!!!

 


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 19 2013, 8:05pm


Views: 5945
I respect your opinion

But I also don't believe that he would have happened as a big movie leading man if he'd been offered those roles. Hidalgo was supposed to be that role and it tanked right during the ROTK and Aragorn and Viggo-s-the-next-action-hero hype. They tried to position him as the real deal - buys horses from the set, best swordsman Bob Anderson ever trained, roasts roadkills, sleeps with a sword, you name it - and nobody cared. I see nothing insulting in saying that his crossappeal isn't as big as of actors such as Jackman, Downey, Depp, Pitt,etc. Very few actros have that kind of presence and he isn't one of them.

Also, I found his injection of his policital views during LOTR promotion very off putting. Movie press conference is not a place where you wear "no blood for oil" shirt. You are paid to promote a movie not your political stance. That was just a sbad as TomKat promoting TomKat at War of the Worlds and Batman Begins press conferences.

And there are those really poorly timed jabs at ROTK's action orientation over character orientation that he spouted during ROTK Best Picture campaign while promoting Hildago. very uncool. I'm sorry but I cannot bring myself to drink his Cool Aid but that's that. I've seen better actors, more engaging personalities and definitely better team players.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



sycorax82
Rohan

Sep 19 2013, 11:47pm


Views: 5957
Hidalgo is the reason Viggo left blockbusters

Viggo was the lead in the Disney film, Hidalgo, out in 2004, and while it's by no means awful it didn't make the money Disney wanted it to. I'm not sure it made it's budget back.....


walkman87
Registered User

Sep 20 2013, 9:18am


Views: 5922
I have to disagree

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. I'm sorry you don't seem to have much respect for this actor. But the facts bear witness to certain things:
As to whether or not Viggo is and was a team player on LOTR or any of a host of his other movies, you need look no further than what those who have worked with him have to say about their experiences. In countless interviews, those cast members and crew who've labored alongside Viggo are effusive about his work ethic, his generosity, his humility, and his personal charm. The LOTR behind-the-scenes videos are full of those accolades, but those sentiments can also be found in other interviews with cast/crew as well as in reunions among cast members. Viggo himself has described the close bonds he's made with those with whom he's worked and about how he has dear memories of those connections. To this day, he remains close friends with his cast mates.

He is excellent at his craft, generous with fans, and a thoughtful participant in interviews, whether promoting a movie or not. I've followed his career for years, and beside the fact that I may not agree with his politics, he - like anyone else - has the right to express his beliefs.

Also, as I recall, Hidalgo made over $66 million dollars domestically within the first few weeks of its release........compared to a lot of films, I don't call that tanking. Again, Viggo has turned down a number of "big budget" film roles since LOTR - not because they were big budget, but because the stories or other aspects of the particular production weren't what he desired to do at that time. He has always made his film choices based on his personal criteria of story interest, director/script, and the opportunity for a new/different challenge.


(This post was edited by walkman87 on Sep 20 2013, 9:22am)


walkman87
Registered User

Sep 20 2013, 12:18pm


Views: 5918
Sorry, have to add some specific examples...

We’ll have to agree to disagree, but as opposed to looking at a person’s choice of shirt for the day, let’s focus instead on how that person treats other people. In the latter regard, here are some specific examples of Viggo’s generous spirit and his nature as a team player:

Liv Tyler’s stunt rider “Jane”, who rode Arwen’s horse in the FOTR Nazgul chase scene, had developed a strong bond with the horse. At the end of the long shoot when a number of horses were being sold, Jane apparently had little hope her bid to buy the horse would be successful. In her words, she was competing with a lot of higher level production people. Unbeknownst to her, Viggo successfully bid on the horse on Jane’s behalf and gave it to her. Jane’s tearful recollection of that gift in the special features is quite moving.

One of Viggo’s passions is photography. He made a point to compile a photographic diary of the entire journey of cast and crew, documenting (in addition to main cast) many of the “unsung” heroes behind-the-scenes – stuntees, extras, and crew. He has shared many of those images over the years with fans worldwide – most recently in special magazine issues commemorating the 10th anniversary of FOTR’s release. This photo diary is a beautiful picture of the friendships that developed through the extraordinary experience.

Viggo was part and parcel of the extraordinary camaraderie that enveloped the cast of the trilogy, often preparing dinners for the group at his home and also participating in a number of festive group gatherings including a Thanksgiving feast on set that he helped prepare.

He was legendary for working through injury and pain – without complaint – to complete a scene and stay on schedule. His broken tooth and broken toes serve as prime examples.

Through strength of his personality – and charisma – he was identified by cast and crew as a natural leader – on and off set. Orlando Bloom recently said in an interview that when he looks back on those early days of his career, the person who had the most impact on him as a person was Viggo. Orlando went on to say how fortunate he was to have been around Viggo at that critical part of his career.

Viggo’s answer to those who’ve asked him what’s important in the acting profession goes something like this: Be on time and listen; give your best in every scene even when the camera is not focused on you; be reliable.

Looking back on his work on LOTR, in particular, he has continued to extol the high level of teamwork that made it possible for cast and crew to endure the grueling nature of the project. He still refers often to his LOTR “family” and to the “family atmosphere” that made that project so special in his life.


(This post was edited by walkman87 on Sep 20 2013, 12:20pm)


Magpie
Immortal


Sep 20 2013, 2:37pm


Views: 6106
team player...

your comments reminded me of something I noted in the post I wrote about the actor who almost played Theoden (I linked to it in my other comment in this thread).

That is, the stunties did a haka for Bernard and Viggo and it seemed clear to me that they would not have done this for 'show.' I think they take the history of haka seriously and I think they had very high esteem and respect for both Bernard and Viggo.
http://www.myvideo.de/...t_Team_does_the_Haka

I think identifying Viggo as 'not a team player' may come down to his personality. I suspect he's a bit of an introvert who is not highly comfortable in public situations (thus not participating as fully as more extroverted cast and crew in red carpet or behind the scenes promo stuff). And I've never taken him as one of those people who is the life of the party... an always *on* entertainer. But I think, as you've said, he's shown over and over that when it comes to work he's in there giving his all and creating an atmosphere of respect for everyone involved.

Recognizing and respecting differences in personality are important. Someone who is shy or reserved can come off as aloof or snooty to some people. Someone who is exuberant and animated can come off as pushy or intrusive. Especially to people who have the opposite types of personalities! :-)

On a whim, I googled Viggo Mortensen Myers Briggs and got a page that identified him as ISFP. The portrait of an ISFP personality is here: http://www.personalitypage.com/ISFP.html

Now, I doubt that we can know with any certainty that some website has correctly identified Viggo's MB profile. But read the description of "The Artist." To my eyes, that fits Viggo quite well.

I used to think I was really just too odd to bear. Growing up and into young adulthood.... no one I knew was like me. No one I knew thought like me. And lots of them mocked or scolded me for not being more 'like them'. When I heard about Myers Briggs and identified my personality it was like coming home. That description (not the same as Viggos!) fit me to a T and I didn't feel so alone and - I guess I am odd, but it's not because I'm bad or flawed. It's because that's my personality makeup. I can try to make it work for me and work around it but I'm not really going to be radically different than the person I've always been. Less than 4% of the population has a personality type like me which explained those feelings that I wasn't like other people.

I am grateful for every friend who *gets* me (whether my oddities annoy them or not) and either appreciates finding a kindred spirit or has the grace to not judge me for not being like them. I try to, as often as I can, extend the same courtesy. With Viggo it's not so hard because, although we're not the same MB personality type, we're not that far apart, either. I identify with him quite strongly. And, after all the stuff I've seen from him and about him, I have quite high respect for him.

As for box office revenues and what level meets the criteria of tanking (a bit loaded, that word)... I don't think he cares too much about it and I know I don't. I liked Hildalgo. That's what matters to me. I'm more invested in finding and identifying what makes me happy than determining what the masses of the world think is important and stepping in time with their opinions.

;-)


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide

(This post was edited by dernwyn on Sep 20 2013, 3:57pm)


Magpie
Immortal


Sep 20 2013, 2:39pm


Views: 5891
well said.

and a most hearty welcome to TORn, walkman87!


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


walkman87
Registered User

Sep 20 2013, 3:03pm


Views: 5886
Nicely Said

You are right....I appreciate your comments. Viggo is well loved by the cast and crew of LOTR.

Viggo is not one to go to all the fantasy conventions and so forth. And he tends to fly below the radar as far as the standard Hollywood stereotype is concerned. I read somewhere about him that he would much rather be walking outside barefoot than walking on the red carpet in the glitzy air of Hollywood. He's very much a down-to-earth kind of guy - he doesn't have a personal assistant and he does his own laundry and washes his dishes by hand - the latter because it gives him time to reflect about the important stuff.

Far from being stand-offish, Viggo is just shy by nature. But he is completely comfortable in his own skin and would go to the mat to help a friend in need. I've read reports of him visiting total strangers in the hospital, donating books to schools in need, etc. He even showed up unannounced from out of town to comfort the mother of a young soldier who had just been killed in the Iraq War back in 2004.

On the LOTR set, he often showed up with flowers for the crew. He stayed up late at night faxing handwritten ideas for the next days' scenes to PJ and co.

Jed Brophy (one of the featured Orcs in TTT; also in the Hobbit) once said that working with Viggo is what made the LOTR experience special for him.

So, all this to say, that his shy personality and desire not to seek the limelight in no way diminishes the love he has for the LOTR project, the people he worked with, and the fans of the trilogy. Just last year, for instance, he was honored with an award at a prestigious theater in Boston. During the week leading up to the awards program, the theater showed a retrospective of Viggo movies including an extended version LOTR movie marathon. Viggo showed up unannounced before the beginning of ROTK to introduce the film and greet the fans. The place went nuts with joy upon seeing Viggo. He spent about 5 minutes talking and joking with the crowd and then treated them to his coronation song 'a capella.' The next day at the press Q & A, he charmed the journalists with thoughtful and insightful answers to questions, including ones posed by TORn's own greendragon. Later that day he led the audience in a sing-a-long of his ROTK coronation song.

IMO, the man is Gold. Humble, down to earth, dedicated, and generous.


walkman87
Registered User

Sep 20 2013, 3:15pm


Views: 5876
Thanks, Magpie!!!!!!!!!!

I appreciate all your comments!!!!!!!!!!


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 20 2013, 4:17pm


Views: 5873
Hidalgo boxoffice facts

It costed 100M to make, sans marketing (which would be at least 50M at the time). Had an opening weekend of a very soft 18.8M at the domestic boxoffice. Reason why studios value opening weekend so high is that they make the most money from it as they retain the highest % of the gross. After 10 days theaters cut bigger % for themselves so studios make significantly less. Also, % that studios recover from foreign markets is even lower. So, in Hildago's case, out of its 108M worldwide gross, studio saw much less.

Hidalgo ended up with 67.3M domestic gross and did even worse internaitonally, nabbing a paltry 40.8M. For a movie to get its budget back aka breka even, it needs to make twice the budget (due to cut offs that I mentioned before). So it was not profitable from theatrical run and should be classified as a flop.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 20 2013, 4:35pm


Views: 5887
Saying that ROTK sacrificed character for ramping up acton

during the movie's Best Picture campaign, that tried to posion the movie not a sa fantasy but as a war drama, was not a team playing. Since he is an intellignet man, he knew that comment like that was ill-timed and could have bad consequences. So I'd say he wanted it to be known that he found FOTR a superior character piece and ROTK lacking because of emphasis on action. In short, not a Best Picture. Now, while I perfectly agree with that assessment, I disgree with the timing and occasion. If your team is trying to win Best Picture than don't make comments that mean it is not the best picture. If you don't think it's the best keep it to yourself. There are way to say nice things without lying. If you think character was lacking and action was too much, praise production values, your co-stars acting, Shore's score,etc not the script or direction. Very simple.

I'm perfectly aware that his cast members praised him in behind the scenes fetaures and interviews (not that they would say anything negative about anyone during the movie promo blitz...Sean Astin's scathing book came out when movies left theaters). I'm just saying that there were few events where his team playing was not on display and this was one occasion. Another is "no blood for oil". Again, as an intelligent man, he must have known that stunts like that draw attention to a stunt-puller only, not the cause. So if you want war effort to get attention, not yourself, bring it where it belongs - ploitical debate, anti-war protest, pro-war protest,etc - not a movie press conference. Likewise, if the stuio that pays you pretty money to promote the movie wants to milk current political events and their rep says something like "our good guys are akin to America in war on terror and Saruman is like Sadam" don't jump in with your view that it's actually the opposite, good guys poor Iraquis and bad guys America. Keep it to yourself. You don't have to agree and nod heads but open disagreement is poor taste.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Magpie
Immortal


Sep 20 2013, 4:50pm


Views: 5877
can you point me to a source/citation on that comment?

It's not one I've run across before.

Quote
"Saying that ROTK sacrificed character for ramping up acton ..."


As for the rest, I'm not really trying to change your mind so I'll leave you with your thoughts and opinions. Just keep in mind that what you judge him negatively for... others will value and respect him for. It's another lesson I've learned over the years. The one thing that some people praised me for... were exactly the same things other people criticized me for. There was no ONE RIGHT WAY I could behave that would make everyone like me and everyone approve of me. So I stuck with what my heart told me was right. "You can't please everyone so ya - gotta please yourself*." Also, I realize that if I wanted people to cut me some slack and have an open heart toward me... I had to extend the same to them. It works for me way more than my 24 year old self would have believed. :-)


*John Fogerty, "Garden Party"


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide

(This post was edited by Magpie on Sep 20 2013, 4:50pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 20 2013, 4:53pm


Views: 5863
Boxoffice does not tell the whole story

These days, boxoffice offers a far from complete picture of a movie's profitability. There are home-video sales (DVD and Blu-ray) rentals, broadcast and cable viewings, digital downloads and streaming, not to mention re-releases. MGM's The Wizard of Oz famously tanked upon its original release.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 20 2013, 6:36pm


Views: 5853
That's true but if you want a big opening for a big movie

you don't call actors who couldn't do it.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 20 2013, 6:41pm


Views: 5887
it was from an interview where he also said that Seabiscuit

should have been more about the horse and less about Tobey Maguire. I'm sure that some of his fan sites have in in 2003-2004 archieves.

I don't disrespect him. I just think he's overrated in Ringer circles and I've frankly seen better actors with more dynamic, engaging perosnalities.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Sep 20 2013, 6:43pm)


Magpie
Immortal


Sep 20 2013, 10:20pm


Views: 5844
I've done some digging and I can't find it

A lot of links have gone bad but it seems out of character for him and I'd like to read what he said exactly and in context.

Too bad we can't find it. Without it, my opinion of him remains unchanged.

I don't think we should be judging actors on how dynamic or engaging their personality is. We should judge them when they're working as an actor.

http://teamcoco.com/...he-d-never-be-a-star

cheers to differences in opinion. :-)


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 21 2013, 2:37am


Views: 5867
It was a Canadian interview, I think

I agree that actors' work shouldn't be judged by personality (Orlando Bloom - great engaging personality, plank of wood actor) but I'm really not impressed with Mortensen. He's a hit and miss for me. Works better in shady type of roles, and quirky supporting parts. Stoic heroes are his least impressive incarnations, IMO.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Sep 21 2013, 8:55pm


Views: 5830
For all my criticism of movie Aragorn

I personally feel Viggo is not to blame. He was too short for Aragorn, a fact he cannot help, and the whole reluctant king debacle was not his doing. Apart from a couple of other mis scripts, being throwing Frodo onto the floor in the Prancing Pony, and cutting off the MOS's head he acted Aragorn's most important traits very well, being nobility with humility. In many ways Viggo was the perfect Aragorn, given the constraints he had beyond his control.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 22 2013, 12:12pm


Views: 5785
James Purefoy

James Purefoy would have been another choice for Aragorn. I've seen him in a handful of roles now (most recently in Solomon Kane) and I could certainly imagine him for either Strider or Bard.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Na Vedui
Rohan


Sep 22 2013, 4:48pm


Views: 5789
One thing I loved about Viggo's Aragorn

was how - "reluctant" or not - he threw himself so wholeheartedly into everything, getting muddier, bloodier and more battered than anyone else. When it came to the coronation, I felt he had really earned his kingdom!


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 22 2013, 5:01pm


Views: 5773
Except that his face didn't look like he thought he earned it

He looked so unsure and insecure. For no apparent reason. By that point he had to show confidence.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Na Vedui
Rohan


Sep 22 2013, 5:21pm


Views: 5774
I connected that with Arwen's absence

- because (unlike the book version) he is coming into his own but, as far as he knows at that point, without the woman he loves who should have been there to share in his glory and the reign to come. So for him, until she shows up, the coronation is rather a bittersweet occasion and even if he does not doubt his own competence, he is looking into a future shadowed by her loss.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 22 2013, 5:22pm


Views: 5772
I can't find it either, but I do remember it

After I saw this discussion, I spent some time searching for links, but I couldn't find anything. But I do very clearly remember Viggo making the comments that Semper Fi describes, and while like her (him?) mostly agreeing with them, like him (her?) I was surprised by the timing and, much as I like Viggo felt that it was not really appropriate.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Magpie
Immortal


Sep 22 2013, 7:00pm


Views: 5772
thanks for sharing your recollection.

In pondering this (as I've been moving through my last few days), I - without having seen the actual interview - still lean toward respecting people who speak their mind. If the alternative is always biting one's tongue or being disingenuous, I'd rather people say what they think, trying to temper it with reasonableness and tact as often as they can with the understanding that will not be 100% of the time.

The timing may not have been appropriate (with that 'may' containing all the uncertainties inherent in not being able to track down the interview) but was his *thinking* it inappropriate? Was his sharing it at any time inappropriate? And does it cancel out all the other acts and statements he made that were indicative of him respecting his coworkers and the production as a whole? To my mind, the answer is no. I can't hear one statement like that, weigh it against all the other things I've heard him say (or observed him doing) or that other people have said about him and label him 'not a team player' - at least not in some sort of negative way. I love the collaborative process and am never as happy as when I'm collaborating with people (when the process is working, anyhow). But I will always be the outlier in any group and I hope my choosing to speak up about an opinion only I may hold makes me 'not a team player' in any sense that I disrespect or disregard the team process.

I still think this comes down to personalities and the kind each of us is most familiar with and most comfortable with. I think people like Viggo are very much team players and I respect them all the more because I know they consider their own viewpoints very important so they have to work at balancing out that individual - team dynamic. But that means I'm defining team player in a different way than another who doesn't see it the same.

Just as I would define 'success' of a movie, a career, or even a life in a different way than others might. I don't think I've ever taken box office revenues, professional critics reviews, or the buzz on imdb boards as any factor in measuring 'success'.

Maybe it's stuff like that that makes me an outlier. ;-)


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 22 2013, 8:12pm


Views: 5756
Thank you!

It's good to know another person remembers it too.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 22 2013, 8:19pm


Views: 5754
Great point

However, I still think he overplayed it. The closest he ever came to confidence was commanding Elven archers at Helm's Deep. And that was a whole movie and then some before coronation. It may be that nuances or this particular character nuances were not his strong suit.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Faleel
Rohan

Sep 22 2013, 8:27pm


Views: 5746
I..

I would be as hesitant as he was, with all the fails he had.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 22 2013, 8:33pm


Views: 5762
I don't know him and cannot say what he was thinking

but I have my interpretation of why those comments happened at that time. In the same interview, he said he was disappointed that his character moments, in particular House of Healing, were edited out. All actors are very sensitive about having their scenes cut from the movie so he isn't an exception. I understand that. It's bad that we cannot have the link to the whole interview because, judging from the context of his ROTK (and TTT) criticism - that FOTR was genuinely character driven (true), that other 2 movies put more accent on action (also true) - he seemed to be somewhat miffed that he missed out on a nomination and blamed lack of character scenes. It's a known thing that he didn't want to be campaigned in supporting actor but in best actor category citing that Aragorn was one of leading characters. So I'd say that he really wanted a nomination and thought he would have had a shot with more character scenes as opposed to making Aragorn just an action hero. I don't think he stood the slightest chance with or without those scenes (the buzz was only with Astin save for McKellen's surprise BAFTA nom) but that's the impression I get, that he took a jab at ROTK because he didn't secure a nomination. My impression. His motives could be entirely unrelated and my speculation off base since I don't know him. I do know, however, that he heavily campaigned for his performance in A Dangerous Method, for example. Nothing wrong with that. If you want it, you gotta tell people that you want it and that they should vote for you otherwise they'll go somewhere else. So desire to get awards nom isn't out of realm of possibility including disappointment at failing as far as those ROTK comments go.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Sep 22 2013, 8:39pm)


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 22 2013, 9:34pm


Views: 5766
I certainly understand where you are coming from

I very much respect candor as well, and part of me respected Viggo more than ever for sharing his true thoughts instead of toeing the party line. But I do agree with Semper Fi that it made him seem less of a team player.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Darkstone
Immortal


Sep 23 2013, 5:23pm


Views: 5769
"Quod non est in actis, non est in mundo."

I cannot find any such article, Canadian or otherwise, to support the original assertion.

These are the closest I can find, which interestingly point to the opposite conclusion.

http://www.viggo-works.com/index.php?page=2405

It's illuminating that one of his favorite scenes that he objects to being cut is one he is not involved in.


http://www.rumormillnews.com/.../noframes/read/28554

"I don't think that 'The Two Towers' or Tolkien's writing or Peter's work or our work has anything to do with the United States' foreign adventures, you know, at this time."

(Note he said "Tolkien's writing or Peter's work or our work".)

******************************************
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Sometime hours and hours hence:
In The Green Dragon two ales could buy
And drank the one less filling I
And that has made all the difference.
- The Ale Less Filling, by Robert Frostymug

(This post was edited by Darkstone on Sep 23 2013, 5:31pm)


Magpie
Immortal


Sep 24 2013, 12:17am


Views: 5734
I'll call your remembered, unfindable quote with my can-find quotes.

all emphasis is mine to make it easier to tease out the part I'm especially focused on.


Quote
Q:. Think your lucky streak will continue at the Academy Awards this weekend? Will the third time be the charm for "Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King?"

A: I've really been racking my brain about it. I've lost sleep over it. Adding up figures and making out figures. I've got the compass out and I've got all the tools I could muster to try and come up with the answer of who's going to win. A crystal ball, everything else. I know this may be reaching, it may be a crazy thing to say, but whoever gets the most votes is going to win. I don't know, is that weird to say that? That's what I think (laughs).

Q: So you're not interested at all?

I'm not into comparing movies or performances. In principle, I think the idea of rewarding a good effort is interesting, but movies are generally different from each other as are performances and the conditions on how the performances are given and how they're edited and so forth. I don't invest a lot of time in even thinking about it. I don't relate it to what I'm doing for a living. I understand it's a whole satellite business that's not directly in my opinion connected to movie-making or art. It's a nice thing I guess and I certainly wish everyone luck who was nominated on my team. But it certainly doesn't validate or invalidate the "Lord of the Rings" or Peter Jackson if it wins or loses any of the 11 nominations it has. It doesn't really matter to me.

Feb 27, 2004

http://sports.espn.go.com/...page=10bqs/mortensen





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Q: I can’t help thinking that Peter Jackson has been underappreciated for what he’s managed to do with this enterprise. If Stanley Kubrick or Steven Spielberg were making this thing, there’d be an uproar of appreciation and publicity. I mean, he literally made three epics in almost one sitting, put together incredible extended DVDs and somehow managed to stay faithful to the spirit of Tolkien and his massive following.

A: Yeah, as well as you possibly could. You know, he’s not someone who goes out there, like some people, and very obviously chases awards. He does what we all are not only contractually obligated to do but, most importantly, are happy to do — promote these movies. He’s not an artist who goes around relentlessly chasing Oscars. Some people will take or pursue a particular job so they can put themselves in a position to win an Oscar. I think that can be kind of sad. It doesn’t mean that they’re in any way deficient as artists or they’re not going to do a good job, but I think someone who has that as their main goal risks missing out on the true satisfaction of teamwork, of being in the moment and enjoying the moviemaking process. You’re not really giving your full attention to the work.

I don’t think Peter has anything against being rewarded with trophies, but I don’t think he really cares about it as much as he does about making good movies, about telling good stories. Maybe he hasn’t gotten an Oscar because he doesn’t seem to be kissing enough ass, or the appropriate asses. I don’t know.

[..]

Q: One reason that Tolkien still seems relevant is that he’s trying more than anything to communicate how dangerous and difficult it is to get completely different cultures to come together for the common good.

A: Oh, yeah. I think the movie’s success highlights those complications. We’ve talked about how some people don’t feel the films have gotten their due; to me, that’s something to be vigilant about, because it’s a trap. I mean, how much credit do you need? You find people getting greedy, even over that. It’s one thing to expect to be paid the money or respect you’re owed and have earned. But ideally that is not really why you’re doing the job in the first place; you’re expecting to be treated fairly, yes, but that is not guaranteed. That is something that either comes to you or it doesn’t, that you will sometimes need to fight for.

If you’re going to get pissed off about not getting your due in terms of special individual attention in popularity contests such as award shows, that’s akin to not being satisfied with working within a group for the common good. What you can control is your attitude and the integrity of your own effort. There’s an interesting parallel in that, with the characters’ individual journeys in this story.

Oct 24, 2003

http://www.salon.com/2003/10/24/viggo/


that's consistent with other comments I've seen/heard him make which makes this assessment of yours from the interview we can't find kind of hard to believe:

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he seemed to be somewhat miffed that he missed out on a nomination and blamed lack of character scenes. It's a known thing that he didn't want to be campaigned in supporting actor but in best actor category citing that Aragorn was one of leading characters. So I'd say that he really wanted a nomination and thought he would have had a shot with more character scenes as opposed to making Aragorn just an action hero. I don't think he stood the slightest chance with or without those scenes (the buzz was only with Astin save for McKellen's surprise BAFTA nom) but that's the impression I get, that he took a jab at ROTK because he didn't secure a nomination.


This is kind of a spent topic. It seems unproductive and a little dangerous to be discussing impressions of a years old interview that some of us haven't read and no one can find to examine for this discussion.

so... my last contribution. I think we've both done a good job of outlining our opinions and making our points.

cheers.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Darkstone
Immortal


Sep 25 2013, 5:47pm


Views: 5688
Elves got Roman noses.


In Reply To
I can't recall of JRRT ever described elven noses.



[Numenoreans] became thus in appearance, and even in powers of mind, hardly distinguishable from the Elves.
-Letter #133

[Denethor] was very tall and in appearance looked like an ancient Númenorean.
-The Peoples of Middle-earth, HoME Vol 12, Part 1, Ch 7, The Heirs of Elendil: The Ruling Stewards of Gondor

Pippin saw [Denethor’s] carven face with its proud bones and skin like ivory, and the long curved nose between the dark deep eyes; and he was reminded not so much of Boromir as of Aragorn.
-ROTK, Book V, Chapter 1, Minas Tirith

QED, elves got Roman noses.

Frankly I prefer Cate's.

******************************************
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Sometime hours and hours hence:
In The Green Dragon two ales could buy
And drank the one less filling I
And that has made all the difference.
- The Ale Less Filling, by Robert Frostymug


RosieLass
Valinor


Sep 25 2013, 11:31pm


Views: 5667
The whole film trilogy sacrificed character for ramped up action.

Maybe it wasn't appropriate for Viggo to say so during a film promotion tour. But on the other hand, if it's true, why shouldn't he say it?

I didn't like Aragorn at all, but it wasn't Viggo's fault. Some of these other actors could no doubt have done as good a job as Viggo did, but the character would still be wrong and entirely miss the point of Tolkien's king-in-waiting. But that's a scriptwriting failure, not a performance flaw.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


RosieLass
Valinor


Sep 25 2013, 11:34pm


Views: 5716
Sean Astin's book "There and Back Again: An Actor's Tale" had some insights into the situation.

Whether he was in a position to be an authoritative voice or not, I don't know. But it's at least another point of view.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


RosieLass
Valinor


Sep 25 2013, 11:35pm


Views: 5680
Being difficult is no reason to cheat him of his wages.

I'm not saying they did. Just that if they owe him, then they owe him, no matter how much of a jerk he might have been.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Eruonen
Half-elven


Sep 25 2013, 11:59pm


Views: 5707
Right, I recall that section....

Sean indicated that Stuart may have let his own demons pop up too much....whatever that referred to. Sean indicated that they realized he was too young and just not the fit for the character. My guess is they were looking for someone closer to Liv Tyler's age as a "couple" than realized their mistake.

I always wondered how much flack or professional cost Sean had with the writing of the book...tell alls rarely help at this stage of one's career.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 26 2013, 1:18pm


Views: 5716
Astin made so many gaffes before the book

that I honestly don't think it made any difference. If anything, his baffling speech at SAG Awards (when ROTK won Best Ensemble) when he took the stage and tried to launch his political platform for running SAG was likely far more damaging. The book was an just icing on the cake. I mean, he spend 3 years constantly on E! giving some ridiculous statements. Anyone remembers his blabbing about saving people from subway tunnels during the Big Blackout? LaughLaughLaugh And that he would direct Fantastic Four and get George Clooney to play Mr Fantastic? LaughLaughLaugh And his flirting with Democrats and Republicants ("I"m against Bush but pro-War on Terror"-type of speechifying)? LOL. The guy was so delusional. I think he was one of those people who think they had it all figured out and played everyone to his advantage and then ended up sabotaging himself. And the book was really "Sniff, sniff, buaaaaah, I wasn't one of the favorites on the set...and out of 100 Oscar bait scenes that Sam had in ROTK they cut 1 and I couldn't get Oscar nomination because of it...buaaaaaaah." Just ugh.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Sep 26 2013, 1:20pm)


simplyaven
Grey Havens


Dec 28 2013, 1:41am


Views: 5591
None

To me, the best thing that ever happened to this trilogy was Viggo. None of the others I can even imagine. I love DDL's work, overall, but not here, no. Viggo has the combination of looks, reserve and method acting. Moderate yet powerful presence. Able to deliver the very complex choices and changes Aragorn goes through and carries from his past. There is nobility about him. Class. This is something a person either has or not, one can't really play it. I've watched many movies with Viggo since then and to me he is a fantastic actor, way underrated, way!

P.S. Anuone seen the "47 Ronin"? Keanu?????? Not only a number of scenes are directly copied from LOTR movies but this man is just... either not acting at all or over acting. There is no golden iddle for him. And I've hit the stage at 8 for the first time, it's not like I don't know about acting!

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simplyaven
Grey Havens


Dec 28 2013, 1:55am


Views: 5590
Viggo

has never wanted the fame you seem to expect every actor to pursue. He is perfectly happy with his present and past roles and as far as his future plans go, probably even more indie and artsy films are on the way. And charisma is a very subjective thing. Just like beauty, it is in the eyes of the beholder because to me Viggo has tons more charisma than any actor you've mentioned in any of your posts (some of which seem stars to you but I had to google them and watch some videos to even know them).

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simplyaven
Grey Havens


Dec 28 2013, 1:58am


Views: 5585
I for one

And I've also met him at TIFF. A man with great charisma! Of course, as most actors, he can tune it down if/when necessary or desired by him (often).

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simplyaven
Grey Havens


Dec 28 2013, 2:00am


Views: 5584
Not true

I've never seen or heard of an actor who is equally charismatic to everyone to see it. Such doesn't exist. I know hundreds who find Tom Cruise so charismatic they fall stricken but to me he is plain blank. Same goes for Brad Pitt. Russell Crowe. Hugh Jackman I can hardly watch. Just to name a few.

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simplyaven
Grey Havens


Dec 28 2013, 2:11am


Views: 5585
Absolutely

And, BTW, here in Canada we are celebrating Cronenberg with panorama at TIFF's Lightbox, the theatres are full! Viggo has many fans aside from the LOTR fanbase. And for a good reason. I can only admire him for not biting the "Hollywood star" stick. It only shows again and again his intelligence.

We don't need another Keanu, able to "open" a Matrix trilogy and a Speed and nothing else. Ah no.

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simplyaven
Grey Havens


Dec 28 2013, 2:12am


Views: 4949
I second that!

100%

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simplyaven
Grey Havens


Dec 28 2013, 2:30am


Views: 4997
Same here

 

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