The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit: Any chance we'll see a Blu-ray release of The Hobbit 1977?

The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Any chance we'll see a Blu-ray release of The Hobbit 1977?

QuackingTroll
Valinor

Aug 17 2013, 7:02pm

Views: 752

Any chance we'll see a Blu-ray release of The Hobbit 1977?

As far as I'm aware, Warner Bros. holds the rights to the Rankin/Bass version. So I'm very surprised that it hasn't been re-released yet. Why the delay? Anyone have an info or speculation on this at all?

(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Aug 17 2013, 7:03pm)

shadowdog
Rohan

Aug 17 2013, 7:48pm

Views: 473

I just checked

Amazon and the 1977 The Hobbit is available on DVD; however, the 1978 animated version of The Lord of the Rings is available on Blu-ray. So it is possible.

Sinister71
Tol Eressea

Aug 17 2013, 7:52pm

Views: 451

One can only hope they release it

At least then fans of the book can have a version to watch that isn't over bloated with material that was never written by Tolkien and made into something that its not. At least the R&B version tells the actual story of the Hobbit. Unlike Jackson's "Quest for Erobor" films. Like I said in another thread if Jackson had called these films something other than the Hobbit I would probably be much more forgiving of his IMO sub par filler material Wink

Otaku-sempai
Immortal

Aug 17 2013, 8:33pm

Views: 442

Yes. There is an entirely different list of things to complain about.

In Reply To

Instead, viewers can object to the accents or lack thereof; Elrond's funky halo; the Wood-elves who look more like gobllins than Elves; the lack of Beorn; the elimination of the Arkenstone from the story; the ant-hill view of the Battle of Five Armies; and the failure of Gandalf to explain his absence due to the threat of the Necromancer in southern Mirkwood.

I'm half-joking, but my point is that there will always be cause for someone to complain. Oh, and sinister? It is Erebor, not Erobor.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 17 2013, 8:35pm)

Sinister71
Tol Eressea

Aug 17 2013, 8:56pm

Views: 418

Hey cut me some slack

I got one hand in a sling and am on some high grade pain killers... Wink

(bad car accident a week ago)

But i agree for some there is a whole list of things to complain about with the R&B version even though I think it stays closer to Tolkien's vision than Jackson's

Starling
Half-elven

Aug 17 2013, 9:03pm

Views: 392

Elrond's funky halo?

Now that I want to see. Cool

Otaku-sempai
Immortal

Aug 17 2013, 9:08pm

Views: 385

Funky, sparkly halo

Floating crown. Whatever you want to call it.

You want an image?

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 17 2013, 9:11pm)

Starling
Half-elven

Aug 17 2013, 9:13pm

Views: 379

Yes, that is

funky, sparkly...and floaty. Cool

In this day and age he would never get away with that mono-brow.

DanielLB
Immortal

Aug 17 2013, 9:48pm

Views: 385

Interesting ...

It's interesting - PJ's films contain most of the book with (some might say) over-the-top additions (as well as non-canonical characters and timeline changes), yet the 1977 film misses large chunks of the book (no talking purse!) and erases a number of characters (also changing the outcome of the BO5A). Both adaptations are adaptations, and neither will ever do the book complete justice, yet from what I have seen I would say that PJ's films are truer to the book. Tonally, the animated film is more of a children's fairtytale. At least everything (and more!) is included in these new films. Plus the 1977 film has that awful theme song and diseased-looking Thranduil.

Fandom, eh! We can never agree about anything.

Smile

(This post was edited by DanielLB on Aug 17 2013, 9:57pm)

dormouse
Half-elven

Aug 17 2013, 9:53pm

Views: 351

I agree with you absolutely about that...

I'd say from what we've seen so far that Peter Jackson's Hobbit is far closer to the book than the cartoon.

So agreement is possible! Wink

malickfan
Gondor

Aug 17 2013, 10:04pm

Views: 333

I love the Rankin Bass Hobbit, but I'm nor really sure it merits a Blu Ray release

With its short running time, cheap animation and rather less well known history I'm not sure it would benefit from a high quality upgrade-and there probably wouldn't be any interesting special features (the main reasons I buy Blu Rays-such as the Alien Anthology or Apocalyps Now)

Even with the questionable designs on a few of the characters, weird pacing and someonewhat corny dialogue, I really enjoy the film (though I wouldn't necessarily say its a good one!), I like that it more or less totally ignores the other books and adapts the book on its own legs as the jolly children's fairytale it is-to be perfectly frank even in the book a large part of me liked not knowing what gandalf was up to, I've always enjoyed the simplicity and silly humour and don't view it as part of the legendarium anyway. Whilst the 'greatest adventure' is to my mind a classic catcy song, and brother theodore remains (IMO) A genuinely creepy Gollum, the abscence of Beorn the Arkenstone and a proper BOFA (and the talking purse) do somewhat annoy me (really couldn't you have spared 5-8 minutes more?) and, I cant see Tolkien being overly pleased with the film at all.

Funnily enough Elrond in this incarnation is actually pretty close to how I've pictured a certain other Elf I'm known to have a fondness for...

The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.

But he isn't quite as aweome as Cirdan.

arithmancer
Grey Havens

Aug 17 2013, 10:26pm

Views: 330

Rankin Bass/Arkenstone book spoliers

Lack of a proper BoFA is faithful, of course! Sly

Minutes spent on the Arkenstone and a proper battle, though, might have also been minutes disrupting the jolly fairytale vibe you feel in the movie. This explains all the omissions to my mind - Arkenstone and battle of course, but also Beorn - while his homestead and the animal servants would have fit right in, his addition might seem more pointless in the absence of a proper battle for him to fight in later.

I do view the book as part of the legendarium, and always have, even though I read it first, and at the age of six (I wanted to know what happened next, and went on to read LotR for that reason). I would also not agree it is a jolly fairytale. It at times reads like one, but takes a left turn towards the end, which in my opinion poses adaptational challenges. RB dealt with them by taking out the bits that least fit this new tone of the ending portion. Jackson is adapting the story in his movies in a manner that will cause the end to blend right in with the rest, embracing all the messiness of the relationships between the various groups that end up in the Bo5a, and (I will hazard a guess here!) the opportunity to stage an epic battle.

malickfan
Gondor

Aug 17 2013, 10:46pm

Views: 301

Fair Enough, and good points, each to their own-though I actually read The Hobbit after LOTR and Unfinished Tales

So I got the backstory and sequel first-perhaps that was why I found it easier to seperate the tone of The Hobbit in my mind, even with all the depth and beautiful language of the other books, The Hobbit tends to be the book I re read the most (though I wouldn't call it my fave) I like the generic fairytale approach to the characters and story (well mostly) and Its nice to know there is one book by Tolkien you don't need to devote a week and a lengthy dictionary to before planning a read Wink

-it's pretty much the only book by Tolkien I've sucessfully persuaded friends to read (given we are in our early 20's I don't know what that says about England's literacy rates).

I find it a little annoying when the hobbit is often approached soley in the light of what it became-a prelude to Lord of the Rings, rather than what it was conceived as a childrens tale very loosely connected with The early Silmarillion drafts, though Its fully understanable and as I said each to their own.

Whilst I missed Beorn in this version, I can see what you mean, he's hardly necessary to the story and its probably best not to imagine how Rankin Bass would have animated him, and I never really liked the way Bilbo put on a ring and hid behind a rock for the battle (At least in the book he is working up the couage to fight before being felled by an anticlimatic though enitely plausible rock), though it was rather surprising to see even more of the dwarves (six I think) be killed in the Battle.

And I stll think John Huston was a great Gandalf.

The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.

But he isn't quite as aweome as Cirdan.

QuackingTroll
Valinor

Aug 17 2013, 10:54pm

Views: 291

Money is all that really matters...

And there are a lot of fans who are willing to pay for a decent version of this film. The current DVD is really terrible quality, a restoration would be well worth the expense.

malickfan
Gondor

Aug 17 2013, 10:57pm

Views: 283

Is it just my copy...or does the DVD continue to run for five minutes after the film had ended

i.e. the screen go's blank after the film/credits (can't remember if there are any) end's and continues to play a balck screen for five minutes matching the runtime listed on the DVD...odd.

The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.

But he isn't quite as aweome as Cirdan.

malickfan
Gondor

Aug 17 2013, 11:02pm

Views: 294

While we are here...is the 1980 Return of the King worth watching?

Or Buying even?

All I know about it is the Orcs randomly burst into song after capturing Frodo and Sam.

I know this is mostly OT, but I've never seen the film and really enjoy the other two cartoons, so I was wondering if anyone could shed some light and offer advice on the film.

How does it match up to the production values and tone of the '77 Hobbit?

I'm not sure I'd be willing to sit through it on youtube on my poor quality rather slow laptop, but I've never seen it going cheaper than a tenner on Amazon.

The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.

But he isn't quite as aweome as Cirdan.

Brethil
Half-elven

Aug 17 2013, 11:14pm

Views: 270

Hope you feel better soon ! //

Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!

arithmancer
Grey Havens

Aug 17 2013, 11:16pm

Views: 278

Literacy

A family member is a medical doctor, graduated from a top US college, and enjoys "classics" like Jane Eyre and Austen's books. She also enjoys the LotR films and liked AUJ, and has read the Potter series, so it is not about genre rejection. But she could not stand "Fellowship" when she tried it. So I am not sure the difficulty is in literacy, entirely. The writing style is just not to everyone's taste, I would say. I can understand why she and others find it slow. When I was younger and less discerning this did not bother me because I read very quickly and could get to the good parts fast, now I wallow in the details...

LordotRings93
Rohan

Aug 17 2013, 11:27pm

Views: 292

The cartoon abominations should just be forgotten

The Ralph Bakshi LOTR is tolerable, mostly, but the Rankin Bass films are just... ugh. Maybe its the animation, maybe the corniness of it, but I just can't sit through them. But hey, if some fans want it, all the more power to 'em, but I don't think this would sell well, to be honest, so WB probably won't waste time converting it.

Lover of Medieval Fantasy
"I know what I must do. It's just... I'm afraid to do it."

malickfan
Gondor

Aug 17 2013, 11:45pm

Views: 258

Rest assured I do wallow in the details too...I'm just glad they aren't always in abundance

Its nice to have a full picture, but equally fun to have half the story and more to imagine for yourself (Though admittedly I've read The Silmarillion three times and still don't 'get' the whole picture)

For every Book of Lost Tales I'm glad there's a Farmer Giles of Ham-I love Tolkien's writing style in Lord of The Rings etc, but I do feel occasionally his 'adult' works sunk a little under their own weight, at points he seemed so obssessed with the history of middle earth he forgot to tell an entertaining story around it (the Frodo Sam stuff in Moria gets a little tedious and drawn out), though given his background and profession his idea of entertaining storytelling is bound to be different. Farmer Giles and The Hobbit, on the other hand what they lacked in depth and logic are simply all out fun, I think Tolkien's sense of whimsy humour was laid aside all too soon.

In fact to be honest part of me is curious to see how the original Lord of The Rings i.e a direct sequel in tone to the hobbit with bilbo as protaginist would have turned out...

The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.

But he isn't quite as aweome as Cirdan.

QuackingTroll
Valinor

Aug 17 2013, 11:51pm

Views: 265

Where there's a whip, there's a way!

If you're a fan of Tolkien it's worth giving everything a shot, IMO.

I personally love the cartoons. They're flawed, but getting a glimpse into someone else's vision of Middle-earth is always fascinating to me. Return of the King is just as good as The Hobbit and actually handles a few aspects really well. The dialogue for example is fantastic. Often using direct quotes from the book, unlike PJ who updated all the language to appeal to a modern audience.

QuackingTroll
Valinor

Aug 17 2013, 11:57pm

Views: 256

The Ralph Bakshi Blu-ray has sold well, I don't see why the R/B ones wouldn't //

malickfan
Gondor

Aug 17 2013, 11:59pm

Views: 256

Ok if its going cheap I'll give it a spin

Thanks for the reply.

I second what you mean about dialogue from the book-in the Bakshi LOTR I really enjoyed John Hurt's Aragorn due to the amount of direct lines from the book, I don't know whether it was the more 'fanstastical' (or terrible depending on you point of view) images or merely the fact that it was an older film, such dialogue to me, often felt more in place than the occasioanlly somewhat random lines quoted in Jackson's films.

The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.

But he isn't quite as aweome as Cirdan.

QuackingTroll
Valinor

Aug 18 2013, 12:18am

Views: 270

Denethor and The Mouth of Sauron were the only characters that really spoke Tolkien's dialogue

The others just kinda blurted out random lines here and there.

I love Eowyn's scene in the 1980 Return of the King: http://youtu.be/hWjt6LGhHsI It's a shame PJ abandoned the language, considering how important language was to Tolkien.

Werde Spinner
Rohan

Aug 18 2013, 2:10am

Views: 244

Ahhhhh!

I saw this once in grade school (the teacher didn't even have us *read* The Hobbit, she just thought we should watch the movie - see! and I could have become a Ringer so much earlier!!!). The animation was creepy, and I didn't understand much of it. Something about a dragon with searchlight eyes and Bilbo running in circles going, "Extinguish me!!" - that's all I remember.

I did hazily recall Elrond's 'halo' (I agree, it is funky). What's with the planets orbiting his head? I mean... is it a crown? Mini stars going supernova? I mean... really... did they decide it would be an appropriate homage to Earendil's story, or what? Because I got nuthin'.

Also, the high collar of the coat/tunic/whatever reminds me of the clothes the wicked queens wear in Disney movies. Stands to reason that my second-favorite LOTR character would end up in something like this. My favorite characters are never liked by adaptations in any fandom...

Recently, I found clips of it on YouTube and showed them to my siblings. They also found it creepy.

Sorry for rambling, but I saw this picture and... well... flashback time.

"I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

"As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."

DanielLB
Immortal

Aug 18 2013, 10:42am

Views: 137

There isn't much chance of us disagreeing.

Unless we're talking about PJ's interpretation and characterisation of Legolas. Wink

dormouse
Half-elven

Aug 18 2013, 11:01am

Views: 121

You're just jealous of his wig.... ;-) //

QuackingTroll
Valinor

Aug 18 2013, 12:31pm

Views: 124

Just found a cool trailer mash-up

Going a bit off topic, but it's my thread, I can do what I want!!

Someone's put the cartoon visuals to the sound of the DoS trailer:
http://youtu.be/9gjaOVMzsNs

(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Aug 18 2013, 12:31pm)

sueb1863
Rivendell

Aug 18 2013, 3:56pm

Views: 102

Re: 1980 Rankin/ Bass RotK

In Reply To

It's worth a look. It is a ninety-minute adaptation so a lot of stuff was cut out (there's no Legolas, no Gimli, Aragorn is barely in it and has maybe three lines, etc.) but they're pretty faithful to the material that is used and I liked Orson Bean and Roddy McDowell as Frodo and Sam. Faramir isn't in the show but you can see a black-haired guy riding next to Eowyn at the end of the movie who many think is probably supposed to be him.

Just be warned that yes, there are songs, and once you hear 'Where There's a Whip There's a Way' it'll be stuck in your brain cells forever.

Otaku-sempai
Immortal

Aug 18 2013, 7:53pm

Views: 97

Limitations of budget and time

In Reply To

The Rankin/Bass The Hobbit was made for a 90-minute time-slot on commercial television, which limited it to its 72-minute runtime. I always felt thet the film would have benefitted from a two-hour slot and a budget that would allow for expanding it to aroound 90 to 100 minutes. If nothing else, the Arkenstone, and the plot-point of Thorin's anger over Bilbo finding it and giving it up to Bard and the Elvenking, could have been included. Perhaps Beorn could have been restored to the story as well. And there is the Wood-elves' feast, which gets mentioned but not seen.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 18 2013, 7:56pm)