The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
it just gets better...



andwise
Rivendell


Apr 22 2013, 1:24pm


Views: 1744
it just gets better...

We have,in our house now,seen the hobbit a fair few times since purchasing it on blue-ray a couple of weeks ago...and it just gets better and better.I don't know what it is,I may have to come back with another post with my reasons but it just imroves with more viewings.
Now I understand that some will still decry it as inferior to LOTR and I can see where these people are coming from.rings always felt like high art in a way,where the hobbit is more just a cracking movie made from a great tale,a ripping yarn,if you will.
But arguments about that aside,it is a gift that keeps giving.the music just keeps unvieling more and more genius.the acting stands so much scrutiny it continues to impress and inspire,and if there has ever been a more fantastic character than Barry humphries' great goblin ,I can't think of one! His delivery of the '...perhaps you know of whom I speak....a pale orc...astride a white warg...!' Line,is just jaw dropping and raises the hairs on my arm every time.
Is anyone else getting more out of it with further viewings? I do hope so :-)

Arrow....black arrow,I have saved you to the last.you have never failed me and always I have recovered you.I had you from my father and he from old.if ever you came from the forges of the true king under the mountain,go now and speed well


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Apr 22 2013, 1:43pm


Views: 890
For me, not so much.

I've watched the blu-ray 3.5 times (and 3 times in the theater), and i have zero desire to watch it again anytime soon. In fact, i'm getting more of an itch to watch FotR again than i am AUJ. AUJ just doesn't have me addicted to watching it like any of the LotR movies did, and always have. By this point in the year with each of the first trilogy's films, i'd already seen them over 20 times. In fact, i've watched the Production Diaries more times than i have the movie. I am looking forward to the EE with baited breath, though.


imin
Valinor


Apr 22 2013, 1:54pm


Views: 810
Its great you are enjoying it more and more

that is all we can hope for when a film is released. bring on DOS!

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.


dormouse
Half-elven


Apr 22 2013, 3:44pm


Views: 731
I agree

I notice more in it each time, and expect to be watching it over and over again until the extended version - and the next film, of course. So glad they went for three, or we would have missed out on such a lot.


Old Toby
Grey Havens


Apr 22 2013, 3:51pm


Views: 709
Agreed

Which is one of the reasons why I kept getting drawn back to see it again and again in the theaters. Since I've had the Blu-Ray DVD though, I have only watched it three times. I need a bigger screen! Tongue

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Apr 22 2013, 4:04pm


Views: 747
This

No wish to revisit TH until the arrival of the sacrosanct EEdition.

I dont seem to be able to watch the hobbit without fast forwarding scenes, getting bored, rolling my eyes, feeling imaptience at all the jacksisms, so it is not really enoyable for me. Unsure

From time to time i take a quick peak at The Unexected party and re watch Dwalins banter with Bilbo.Heart

Vous commencez ŕ m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Apr 22 2013, 4:18pm


Views: 731
Agreed...it doesn't have much rewatch value, for me...I tend to fastforward through a lot of it.


In Reply To
I've watched the blu-ray 3.5 times (and 3 times in the theater), and i have zero desire to watch it again anytime soon. In fact, i'm getting more of an itch to watch FotR again than i am AUJ. AUJ just doesn't have me addicted to watching it like any of the LotR movies did, and always have. By this point in the year with each of the first trilogy's films, i'd already seen them over 20 times. In fact, i've watched the Production Diaries more times than i have the movie. I am looking forward to the EE with baited breath, though.


My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Luinnár
Rivendell

Apr 22 2013, 5:53pm


Views: 629
Indeed!

But I haven't got to see it recently, my uncle is borrowing it. I would normally be sad about this, but at least someone somewhere is enjoying it. Smile


Bombadil
Half-elven


Apr 22 2013, 6:18pm


Views: 601
RedBox.com has Hold for Pick-up either DVD or Blu-ray

Bomby seen it 10 + Times in every format in theatres
so will just wait for the EE to purchase.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 22 2013, 6:34pm


Views: 613
Glad your enjoying it

I feel the same way about the first 45 minutes of the film after that I tend to fast forward or just even shut it off.Wink


Luinnár
Rivendell

Apr 22 2013, 7:21pm


Views: 575
*Sigh*

I'm too young to rent movies.Unsure


ltnjmy
Rivendell


Apr 22 2013, 7:24pm


Views: 582
AUJ defintely improves with each viewing


In Reply To
We have,in our house now,seen the hobbit a fair few times since purchasing it on blue-ray a couple of weeks ago...and it just gets better and better.I don't know what it is,I may have to come back with another post with my reasons but it just imroves with more viewings.
Now I understand that some will still decry it as inferior to LOTR and I can see where these people are coming from.rings always felt like high art in a way,where the hobbit is more just a cracking movie made from a great tale,a ripping yarn,if you will.
But arguments about that aside,it is a gift that keeps giving.the music just keeps unvieling more and more genius.the acting stands so much scrutiny it continues to impress and inspire,and if there has ever been a more fantastic character than Barry humphries' great goblin ,I can't think of one! His delivery of the '...perhaps you know of whom I speak....a pale orc...astride a white warg...!' Line,is just jaw dropping and raises the hairs on my arm every time.
Is anyone else getting more out of it with further viewings? I do hope so :-)

I have watched it via 48 hr pay per view service for the last 3 weekends in a row (I was sorta holding out from getting the DVD - hoping to wait for the EE - but I will probably relent since the EE won't be out for a while and pay per view is getting too expensive). I LOVE all the songs and I do find that Bilbo grows into a great member of the team by the end and wonderfully finds his courage when he defends Thorin until the other dwarves get there to help him out. The Misty Mountains song makes me cry. . .



Glorfindela
Valinor


Apr 22 2013, 10:55pm


Views: 491
It just gets better – agree

And I also don't seem to be tiring of this film like I did of TTT and (especially) ROTK, in which some scenes with a few of the characters are quite tedious to watch now.


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Apr 23 2013, 12:13am


Views: 463
Partly Agree


In Reply To
And I also don't seem to be tiring of this film like I did of TTT and (especially) ROTK, in which some scenes with a few of the characters are quite tedious to watch now.


I love the TT. It is my favorite of the first three films. And I have watched that more than the others. Haven't watched ROTK much as I can't take some of the changes. I fast forward through a lot of it. The battle scenes are my favorite parts of ROTK.


sycorax82
Rohan

Apr 23 2013, 2:10am


Views: 447
The Trolls sequence drags....

That's the only part of AUJ where I'm like *sigh* 'come on!' and I really wish it was different somehow. I love the Dwarves attacking them but the conversation about them being 'riddled' with something and so unfit to eat is just yawnworthy!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Apr 23 2013, 3:01am


Views: 419
i agree...

AUJ grows on you, i've seen it three times on bluray so far and each time it gets better.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Misty Mountain Hop
Rivendell


Apr 23 2013, 3:05am


Views: 430
I agree, although it's hard to compare.

With LOTR, I would watch Fellowship, and then immediately TT and ROTK. I would never just watch Fellowship, and then Fellowship again, and then again. Since there were three, I would watch them in that order.

With The Hobbit, we don't have that yet. I agree though, I love watching it and I can watch it again and again. But it will feel even better when we get the EE of all three, and the story comes full circle, then I could watch the first one more often, knowing the middle and end of the story.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Apr 23 2013, 3:55am


Views: 413
Yes, but i *did* watch FotR

over and over before TTT came out. I just don't have that with AUJ, even though i do like it (mostly)-- i'm just not loving it like i did with the LotR films. But i'm sure, like you say, once i have all the Hobbit EEs, i'll want to watch them all in a row, many, many times. Of course, i'm assuming(hoping) i'm going to love DoS and TaBA.


imin
Valinor


Apr 23 2013, 10:55am


Views: 363
This is how i feel

I have watched it (AUJ) a few times now but basically i would say i have no more interest in watching it and am bored of it. Though still hopeful for a good DOS and TABA.

For me they just don't have any of that magic that the LOTR films had springled throughout - though they certainly had faults in them as well - most in TTT and ROTK and parts in FOTR i wish were different/added but i think so far other than in small patches AUJ just hasn't reached the heights of its predecessors.

The EE's as you say could change all this and make them into better films with more characterisation and with a better flow and balance.

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.


Balrogslunch
The Shire

Apr 23 2013, 3:09pm


Views: 339
It gets a lot better for me with each viewing...

I have watched it three times now and enjoying it more with each viewing......and here is i think why.....

1. Knowing the story of the Hobbit (as i did with Lord of the Rings) watching it at first the film is jarring because you pick up all the differences to the books so you arent enjoying it as a 'film'.

2. I dont think it helps comparing it atm to Lotr Trilogy because i think most of us would have watched the extended versions of Lotr and will be comparing it to that.....(the extended versions in my opinion are far superior to the theatrical lotr releases).....

3. The first film covers roughly the same ground (from a visual viewpoint) and starting point of Fotr......and in this I think Peter Jackson has done a great job making the areas feel 'different enough' (Rivendell etc).....the next films have the advantage of being relatively 'new' in the places it is going to show us.....

4. Introducing thirteen Dwarves was no easy task.....the next film will beable to 'start' more quickly and move the story along at an earlier start point......

spoiler

5. I hope the EE will cover more of the Necromancer story arc which i think it will because i guess you will follow Gandalf seperately from the Dwarves (with Bilbo) for probably 2/3rds of the film.....The Necromancer seem more attached on and it was only hinted at what his role is in the story and i think DOS will be quite different.....


Misty Mountain Hop
Rivendell


Apr 23 2013, 8:19pm


Views: 318
I guess it was different for me...

I was only 11 years old when Fellowship was in theaters, so I wasn't as big of a fan as I am now. I just watched it once or twice, as well as TT, before I finally saw ROTK in theaters at age 13.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Apr 23 2013, 9:13pm


Views: 324
What are you issues with...

TTT and ROTK? For me, I don't like when Gimli is blowing away the ghosts in the paths of the dead. I also hate when he farts during the drinking game. I'm sure there are others, but those are what I can think of at the moment.

ETA - I should add that these parts don't affect my overall enjoyment of the films. I easily get past their inclusion because they are few and far between, IMO.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." -Arwen

(This post was edited by Ardamírë on Apr 23 2013, 9:19pm)


andwise
Rivendell


Apr 24 2013, 11:16am


Views: 282
excellent points....

I completely agree with the point you make about AUJ feeling to jar a little on first view,this is an unavoidable thing because as you say we all know how the book runs and we pick up on any changes instantly.I did this with FOTR on first viewing,but as time goes by and we accept,if we are happy to do so,the changes,then we see it for what it is intended to be...an enjoyable movie!
Good points made by everyone though.cheers chaps Smile

Arrow....black arrow,I have saved you to the last.you have never failed me and always I have recovered you.I had you from my father and he from old.if ever you came from the forges of the true king under the mountain,go now and speed well


imin
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 12:43pm


Views: 278
The parts you mentioned

Bother me a bit as does Gimli's general character in all the films but i feel it is most apparent in TTT and ROTK.

I also don't like the scene with the wargs - they just look terrible and that alone annoys me, lol. I don't like the whole Aragorn falling off a cliff thing either. I think Gandalf getting his staff smashed by the Witch-king is bad and something i don't like.

I don't like Frodo sending Sam away and i prefer book Faramir.

I am sure there are more, lol, but for me they are smaller and less often than the problems i see with AUJ which is more about tone, flow, balance of the film itself rather than its content - though that has issues as well. I think it was harmed in making 3 movies as they had to add excess fluff - such as overly long action sequences such as being chased by wargs, way OTT stone giant sequence, use of old bilbo tie in etc.

For me nearly everything after bag end minus riddles in the dark is sub par, even the way they shot Azanulbizar looks strange to me!

I think there are enough people who are dissatisfied in some way with AUJ that if we all donated a few pounds/dollars we would have enough to make another Hobbit adaptation Tongue

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 8:50pm


Views: 266
Gripes with LOTR

I think that one of the reasons I'm more receptive of the changes to LOTR is that when they came out, I was rather young (10-12). So most of those things you mention didn't bother me at all. I do remember on my first viewing of TTT in the theater I was completely shocked that Shelob wasn't in it. I kept waiting and didn't think the movie was ending because we still had to do that bit, lol.

The changes to Faramir didn't bother me much either, and I think it's because of the same thing. Back then I didn't know much about characters and such. So he was just the same Faramir to me even though they changed it a bit and had him take Frodo and Sam to Osgiliath. Now I understand why people don't like the difference, but I'm so used to it that it doesn't bother me in the slightest. In fact, it remains one of my favorite parts of TTT movie.

Frodo sending Sam away is another change that has never really bothered me. For both this and the Faramir change, I accepted what the writers said in the commentary and behind-the-scenes footage as their reasons for changing things. It made sense to me, and still does, though now I do understand that in doing so, they had to alter the characters from their book counterparts.

Truthfully, apart from changes (that probably aren't all so bad if I give them a second chance), my main gripes with AUJ all stem from pacing, tone, and the digital look. I feel that these areas are those that needed the most work in AUJ.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." -Arwen


imin
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 9:54pm


Views: 270
I think i am very similar to you in thinking about the films

I think i gave the LOTR films more slack than i do AUJ and i think a lot of that is down to age - i was 14-16 when they came out and although had read the books i don't think i understood everything in them (still don't i guess!) and so was less fearful they would mess it up and had basically no expectations in comparison to the expectations i had for AUJ.

Like you the main concerns with AUJ are pace, tone, the colour grading/digital look, i am hoping with presumably more dol guldur stuff that the pace will be better and somehow they get some new digital colour graders, lol and tonally well its gone already so just go with the flow? lol.

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 12:02am


Views: 262
Expectations

I do think that expectations played a big part in why I came away disappointed with AUJ. But I want to be clear that even with expectations and a different age, I think that AUJ just isn't up to the same cinematic level as the LOTR films. The pacing, tone, cinematography, CGI - all of these things are done with a greater deftness in the previous trilogy, IMO.

About the changes, I think that the ones in LOTR for the most part made sense. Did they always? No, but much of the time I understood what they were doing and why. I also think that most of the changes feel like Tolkien to me. Raising Azog from the dead, having a ridiculous CGI bunny-sled chase, turning the stone giants into a video game - these things don't feel in the spirit of Tolkien to me. I don't have a problem with changes that are done well (e.g. - the arrival of the dwarves at Bag-end/Thorin arriving late/Bilbo's Tookish side propelling him out of the Shire).

I hope all that made sense (I'm typing this up while taking a break from homework). I'm expecting to like DOS better simply because I'm not expecting perfection anymore. I know the film will have things I'm not keen on, but I hope I'm able to overlook them easier than with AUJ.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." -Arwen


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 25 2013, 12:18am


Views: 264
Exactly and I agree

I too will probably like DOS better than AUJ, simply because now I know what to expect from Peter Jackson. Knowing now that the bar is set pretty low when compared to LOTR, I shouldn't be too disappointed. I too went into AUJ expecting to have something with the feel of Tolkien like LOTR did. I wasn't expecting page by page verbatim, but something like the LOTR with a more realistic feel to it, not some OTT cartoonish version of middle earth were practical laws of physics do not exist.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 12:34am


Views: 263
The worst of it

is that PJ did hit brilliance on level with or even surpassing the LOTR films on a few occasions (the narrated portion of the prologue, good morning conversation, arrival of the dwarves, Bilbo leaving the Shire), but somehow the film lost its way after that. I actually think even the troll scene was done really well (even with the snot gag and parasites). The problems came when he deviated from the book or went over the top with CGI action sequences.

Ah well...I now know what to expect from DOS. I expect the spider scenes, the barrel escape, and Bilbo's conversation with Smaug to be excellent. If I like anything else I'll be incredibly satisfied with the film.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." -Arwen


imin
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 10:08am


Views: 260
Makes sense and i completely agree

It's a combination of factors that has made it not as good - some our own doing of having too high expectations but more importantly it's down to the film simply not being as good at the end of the day - it's not terrible but it's just not amazing like the LOTR movies either.

As you say the problems in LOTR were either understandable or at least in keeping with the book. For AUJ there are the bigger problems of pace, balance, tone which affect all aspects of the film. Along with specific scenes as you mention.

I also think i will like DOS more as i will go into the cinema thinking it will be like AUJ not LOTR and if it's better than AUJ then i will be really happy as it will be a nice surprise!

I am generally a positive person (might not know from this forum where i have complained about AUJ, lol) though and so think to myself 'this time it's going to be awesome!' and then my expectations gradually rise without me being aware almost, lol.

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.


Elessar
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 2:41pm


Views: 247
Age, Expectations, etc

Reading the last few posts between you all I thought I'd jump in.

Age does come into play when you're willing to let things go but I don't think that is a major factor. When The Fellowship of the Ring came out I had just turned 20 years old. So I'm a fair amount older than the both of you and most of the changes didn't bother me as we made our way through. Now, to be fair I didn't jump into the book until after I seen The Fellowship of the Ring. I've read it multiple times since then compared it to the movie and I feel that one doesn't really have anything I don't care for other than Gimli's fart. The Two Towers I don't care for TE Faramir but like the expansion in the EE making him more like his book counterpart but I don't care for Frodo showing the Nazgul the Ring. That just doesn't make anysense to me. In The Return of the King some of Gimli's gags are a bit much and overplayed by this point and my super main issue is Frodo sending Sam away. This to me is a big issue and its interesting to read that some don't mind it but for me this is a bigger issue than some of the complaints I see coming about AUJ. I was 31 when AUJ came out in December and I have less issues than some of you who are younger than I am. So I do think age is a factor I think its just more of a personal thing.

You and I have talked about expectations before. This is something I think is personal again much like what we're willing to accept. My expectations were sky high and depsite a few things I didn't like within the movie they were met. For me the some of the issues I see as far as pacing, tone, feel all were what I wanted and expected. Could there be tweaks? Sure. Would I make some tweaks? Sure.There is only one moment that felt OTT as some have put it and thats when the bridge is turned into a theme part ride ending with The Goblin King. As a whole despite tweaks to the story this very much feels like Middle-earth and feels like Tolkien. So for me it the expectations were met. Understanding the personal nature of this I can accept others may not feel this way. I will say my personal bar is even higher than it was going into AUJ. That for me is how impressed I was with this movie.

I will say The Hobbit wasn't as good as The Lord of the Rings but for me The Hobbit book isn't as good as The Lord of the Rings books. They're both great but great for different reasons I guess is what I'm saying. So for me The Hobbit: AUJ was as good at being The Hobbit as The Lord of the Rings Trilogy was as good at being The Lord of the Rings.

You said something that I think people need to think about and something I know I've mentioned. You now know it isn't going to be like The Lord of the Rings. I firmly believe this was a major issue for a lot of people. Even people who've read the book and know The Hobbit is much less mature as a whole than The Lord of the Rings. How much that was a factor again is something personal to each. For me personally I was able to go accepting The Hobbit would be lighter than The Lord of the Rings but also would have plenty of mature moments. I got that and I think for me that is why I came out of the movie just loving it.


Sorry for the long post but you and Aradmire had thoughts I wanted to jump in on real quick.



(This post was edited by Elessar on Apr 25 2013, 2:43pm)


Ardamírë
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 6:21pm


Views: 235
The Hobbit as The Hobbit

That's just the thing, though, I don't think that The Hobbit is as good at being The Hobbit as LOTR is at being LOTR. I said above that there were some real brilliant bits in The Hobbit, and those bits are where The Hobbit does its best to be The Hobbit. It tries too hard to be LOTR while also trying to be The Hobbit.

I also think that the tone/lightheartedness of The Hobbit was not reflected in AUJ. There is a childishness in the movie that is not at all the same as the whimsy of the book. In places it tries to rival the grandness of LOTR, and in others it has over-the-top CGI action scenes or jokes aimed at kindergardeners.

I hope, if nothing else, that the tone of the next two films is a little more consistent. I think it will be because the book's tone begins to change anyway.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." -Arwen


Elessar
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 6:54pm


Views: 233
The Hobbit v The Hobbit

I understand that's the opposite side of the coin and I resepect that. I however have to disagree. I fully believe what I said. I think as a whole The Hobbit does a good job at being The Hobbit. The tone, story, feel, characters, etc all It does some of keeping the tone from The Lord of the Rings but I believe it does a pretty solid job of walking the line and not falling to one side too much.

I totally disagree. I think the movie captured that feeling pretty perfectly. The bridge ride scene was a bit much but as a whole it felt as I said very much the light nature of the book. Though I could lose a four things (snot, close up of drinking, belching, and bird crap) that would maybe help make it a bit more serious in nature. I feel like there were lots of moments that looked as amazing as anything we saw in The Lord of the Rings and really only one moment that I thought the CGI was too much (bridge falling sequence).

So all that said when I watch the movie I really feel like the book has come to life. Its not spot on mind you but it keeps the heart and soul of everything. For me it also improves say something like Thorin who in the book is more of a jerk the entire time. He's far more likeable character in this movie with just the right amount of jerkness for me.

I expect the next two films will get more mature. The book did that and I figure the movies will as well.



Ardamírë
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 9:38pm


Views: 222
Obviously, we disagree ;-)

I think once I have all three films and can fast forward through everything that isn't from the book, I'll be thankful that I at least have those scenes.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." -Arwen


imin
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 10:14pm


Views: 215
I see it a little differently.

When i talk about expectations and then it not being like LOTR, i don't mean it's not in the same style or tone as LOTR i mean it's not as good to me as LOTR e.g. i give LOTR say 9/10 but AUJ 6/10. I was not expecting AUJ to be like in content or tone LOTR i was just hoping it would be as well made a film. If that makes sense?

For me the tone is wrong if comparing to the book - its somewhere between The Hobbit book and LOTR movies or as others have said LOTR lite to give it a catchy title, lol. Though as has been said - silliness is not the same as whimsy and there are some pretty dark things happening even in these chapters of the book, Gandalf killing the Great Goblin comes to mind. I also think nostalgia comes into play a little as i read this when i was a child which is a little different to you reading it in your twenties and at one time it was my favourite book ever and i read it over and over as a little kid thinking i was very grown up having a book with maps, lol.

For me some of the things wrong with it are certain scenes but other things are more far reaching such as the films pace, balance and tone and for me it's colour grading. All these issues were not in LOTR or any good film, i just compare it on a film to film basis in this way as they are using source material from same author, same director, same crew (mostly) etc.

I understand you feel it is probably a better adaptation which is tonally perfect and only has very minor flaws but to say anyone who didn't like it because they were expecting LOTR is just not true - i wanted it to be the hobbit but that isn't what we got.

I would have settled for AUJ with all its OTT scenes had it's pacing been better and just looked better (colour grading) - but it didn't.

All this though doesn't stop me hoping DoS will be different and improve as a film (not thinking about Tolkien) and secondly as an adaptation.

I think what the film generally got right was costumes and location shooting, gollum looked amazing as did the trolls. Elrond was performed much better this time by Hugo Weaving and MF was very good as was Ian and Richard.

I wouldn't have replied but i felt i had to say i didn't expect it to BE lotr just as good a film as LOTR were. Hope that makes sense? lol.

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.


imin
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 10:22pm


Views: 210
Will just add

There are parts i felt were done extremely well and i felt were some of the best of M-e we have seen on film - those are the bag end scenes and gandalf's convo with bilbo. I liked most of the prologue and of course riddles in the dark and seeing a little glimpse of Smaug at the end was really cool.

So it's not like i totally hated the film, i will just have to use the skip button a little more than with LOTR, lol.

I might also fiddle around with TV settings to try and get a colour i prefer more!

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.


Escapist
Gondor


Apr 25 2013, 10:47pm


Views: 207
jumping in also

Tone: I agree that the tone is a bit off from The Hobbit as a book, but rather than just saying something between LotR and TH, I'd set it somewhere between LotR and the Appendices of RotK.
TH has lots of humor of all kinds including but not limited to silliness, whimsy, body-humor, schoolyard name-calling, and subtle riddles. I was thrilled to see such a wide span of humor types in AUJ. That was no small feat!

Pace: I can't wait to see him on film.

Balance: Yes, the movie is not consistent. It "ramps up" like a roller-coaster. How rude to imagine your theater seats jumping up and throwing you around a winding track after slowly clicking up to a comfortable (well not really) and lovely view like that!

Wishing it was better like LotR doesn't mean expecting it to be like LotR: ... ... ok ... ... I have to think about that one a lot - it is twisting up in my mind - especially in the context of the rest of the criticisms in this thread - most of which are riddled with the acronym LOTR over and over in them ...

I do expect both TABA and DOS to be far more popular but I don't know if I will like any movie better than the opening scene of AUJ ever for the rest of my life. Unfortunately, I just don't watch movies or TV or play video games at all anymore these days. I just am too buried in work, professional development, and creative pursuits. I'd say that my non-viewing of the movie was evidence of disinterest and lack of replay value except that I have not watched anything, actually (except what I see at work) since getting the video and watching as much of it as I could in the spare time I had for that kind of thing - wait - there was something on at my mom's house the other day but I can't even remember what it was and missed most of it anyway.


Elessar
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 10:54pm


Views: 205
Obviously lol

Having all three films will be fantastic. Especially if they're on par for me anyways with how good this one is. I'll enjoy each film I hope from start to finish.



(This post was edited by Elessar on Apr 25 2013, 10:54pm)


imin
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 10:55pm


Views: 206
Lol poor mind!

How about i wish AUJ was better like the Godfather film is (to me) but i don't want it to be the Godfather movie, lol.

Could use any film which i think is a better film. The comparisons to LOTR are added into the thread as i felt tonally the LOTR was closer to the source material than i felt AUJ was to The Hobbit and i wish AUJ could be more like LOTR in the respect of being 'more in the spirit of the book'. It does not mean i wish for a film which was called the hobbit but was really LOTR.

For me that makes perfect sense but then it might not for you and Ardamire will have to explain it better as he feels the same way as i do. Smile

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.

(This post was edited by imin on Apr 25 2013, 10:55pm)


Elessar
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 11:24pm


Views: 198
Different strokes for different folks

That's fair. I'd give The Lord of the Rings Trilogy as a whole 9.5 and so far I'd give The Hobbit a 9/10. What you said there makes sense but I have to totally disagree with you on it.

I understand that. I don't think the tone was wrong because as a whole it felt as if it was The Hobbit but I do think it balanced enough to blend in the proper amounts of The Lord of the Rings in. I personally loved that. So for me like I said I felt the balance worked. I agree about the silliness/whimsy debate and again I think the movie did a solid job outside a few things which I disliked (mentioned a few times already). I'm sure that totally comes into play. There is a difference between for sure in the ages we read them. I do wish I had gotten into Tolkien at a much earlier age.

There are a few scenes I don't like but there are scenes I don't like within The Lord of the Rings. I could live without the stuff I've mentioned before about The Hobbit but I really do dislike Frodo showing the Nazgul the Ring/Frodo sending Sam a way so much more. Pacing, Balance, and Tone as I've said I really thought were just fine. I really thought the way the movie looked (color grading) was fantastic. It to me was so beautiful I wouldn't have even thought that to be an issue at all.

I wouldn't say that to be 100% but I do think there were many people that expected this. I have no problems saying that and feel very confident in saying so. I wanted it to be The Hobbit and I feel that's what we got. So we will have to agree to disagree on what we did or didn't get.

Again we will have to agree to disagree on it being OTT or your other issues. All I can say is I just feel very strongly that these things were not issues. I hope that comes across ok without looking like a jerk.

I hope others that didn't like AUJ as much as I did like DoS more. For me I just want it to continue the impressive film we got with AUJ

I agree all those things were great. I will say I thought Weaving did just fine in The Lord of the Rings and was the same here.

I'm glad you did. I like the discussion. Especially with people that won't rip me a part with insults. So your issues make sense. I can't agree with a decent chunk. I hope as I said mine comes across respectful.



imin
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 11:31pm


Views: 193
Very respectful and non jerk like

So no worries there and i am just glad you actually understand what i am trying to say in posts, haha. Hopefully you don't feel like i am being a jerk to you or anything like that.

I'm ok with others liking it and disagreeing - if everyone felt the same then the world would be so dull! Plus you got to enjoy something which you now love so that's awesome and i hope we both feel that way come DoS and TABA.

I wish we could meet up and watch the film together so i could say this is what i mean about the colour or have you explain how this part is perfect etc, would be good fun Smile

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.


Escapist
Gondor


Apr 25 2013, 11:42pm


Views: 190
I probably sounded like a jerk - sorry for that.

This is often what happens when a person is brisk and to-the-point without couching in enough verbiage to circumvent the inevitable reading-into of things that happens. I have often caught myself in this problem, to be honest, where I don't think enough about "how something could be taken" and create friction that way inadvertently.

I will admit that I didn't think enough about how my comments would be taken or make others feel - either in a negative or positive way sensitively. I just blurted out exactly what I was thinking without enough filtering ... stream-of-consciousness style. My apologies. I guess that if I don't have time to make a very thoughtful and careful post I might be better off waiting until I am able to do so.


imin
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 11:55pm


Views: 189
your post wasn't replied to mine

But i will just say i haven't felt you were being a jerk at all in this or any thread - just saying what you think which is fine by me.

Sometimes i do feel like i don't take into account how things could be taken as i forget people can't hear me say the words i am typing, thus leading to people perhaps getting upset/offended when i didn't intend any negative basis to comments.

It can be hard sometimes getting across what you want in a concise manner but also in a way that people can't read into a different way than it was intended!

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.


Elessar
Valinor


Apr 26 2013, 12:24am


Views: 183
Good

Glad about that. Sometimes I can be a bit blunt or have my words on screen not come out quite like how my emotional state is when writing them. I totally get what you're saying. I understand it because I feel the same passion for the other side of the coin. Nope not at all. I've said before you are one of the opinions I look for with posts. I enjoy the content of them

It does help make the world go round and you do learn things that way. I wish so badly for my fellow Tolkien fans they enjoy the following two movies more.

That would be awesome. Cool I actually did that with a friend of mine here and we bounced ideas off each other why she felt the movie was an 8 and I felt it was a 9.



Elessar
Valinor


Apr 26 2013, 12:28am


Views: 208
You didn't

Your post didn't come across that way at all. So no worries. Cool