The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
YES ! The High Fells in DOS !!!!



NoelGallagher
Rohan

Mar 24 2013, 8:13pm


Views: 2490
YES ! The High Fells in DOS !!!!
Wow,how amazing that scene was right ?

I wonder how it will turn out to be shown geopraphical..what you guys think were it will be placed ? I guess after Gandalf leaving the company...


BornOutOfTheWest
Rivendell


Mar 24 2013, 8:54pm


Views: 1357
Bit of a surprise...
I feel that this scene was cut out of AUJ. I had imagined this scene being in the extended cut of AUJ most likely as following Gandalf after Rivendell while the Dwarves are in Goblin town. It would have just have fitted, as the previous shot of gandalf was with Galadriel "The riddle of the morgul blade must be solved".

Just to add to to this I've got ' The Hobbit Chronicles of Middle earth' and there is a section in there is a couple of pages in there which discusses it! (Pg 150-151 for anyone who has it). It says - "While Gandalf seeks answers beneath the mountains, Thorin leads his company over them..." Yet more proof that this scene was originally going to be in AUJ.

What I'm wondering is how they're going to explain this in AUJ? A possible prologue but unlikely. Since most of the audience probably won't realise that this scene was originally meant to be on the other side of the misty mountains, they will know no different...

However the problem with this is that Galadriel says at the white council "They were buried in the high fells of Rhudar". Now Rhudar is on the side of the misty mountains which they just crossed over! And i highly doubt that Gandalf will travel back across it in DOS.

Guess we've already got a film inconsistency...

Any thoughts?


NoelGallagher
Rohan

Mar 24 2013, 9:08pm


Views: 1220
Obviously
PJ isnt that much into geographics ;) I dont think it works as a prologue because the scene is a bit to "slow" to bring the audience back into the movie.

I could see it work either as a flashback during another White council meeting or straight after Gandalf leaving the dwarves before mirkwood..dont think there are other choices.


DisDwarfWoman
Rivendell

Mar 24 2013, 9:08pm


Views: 1196
It looks like..
... they're setting it up to be after Gandalf leaves, but before the attack on Dol Guldur, maybe they find enough evidence to convince Saruman that the Necromancer is really Sauron?


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Mar 24 2013, 9:17pm


Views: 1217
Can't believe it!
It makes no sense holding this over to DoS, (neither geographically or pacing-wise,) we don't need another a flashback if the Gandalf/Thrain encounter is going to be past-tense also. The Weta Chronicles show that it would have fitted perfectly after the White Council scenes, and explains why Gandalf is further behind the Dwarves by the time they get to Goblin Town. And why let Chronicles be published if it is not accurate? This must be a really, really late decision... Frown

"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort






Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 24 2013, 9:25pm


Views: 1131
Indeed
i dont know if it was finished material, but it looked a bit digital...there was something odd about the way gandalf moved...

But that aside, i didnt see anything really interesting in that scene...gandalf takes a look, jar jar raddy shows up, in a way that almost feels as if this was his first scene...

Meh, its not canonical...it doesnt add anything really...i could see this being cut at all...not really interested in seeing them go to the main chamber and having gandalf utter some ominous lines about the nazgul...

If it is to be kept i would prefer the EE, since this was supposed to be where gandalf goes before goblin town...
Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


BornOutOfTheWest
Rivendell


Mar 24 2013, 9:27pm


Views: 1109
Exactly what i was saying,
Plus having this scene in AUJ after Rivendell, helps us make sense of where Radagast is! I mean, after the warg chase he just disappears and it feels like another scene with Radagast was meant to be in the movie. Having this scene where it was meant to be makes must more coherent sense and helps avoid the 'Radagast absence' from the rest of the film...


NoelGallagher
Rohan

Mar 24 2013, 9:36pm


Views: 1118
now that its been shown
i dont think it gets cutted for a second time. I really like the atmosphere in that scene and we already havent seen everything of it,the beginning and the ending...so, i am looking forward to see it.


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Mar 24 2013, 9:45pm


Views: 1116
This entire preview made me long for the original cut of AUJ...
The film would have been so gigantically epic in it's original form (not to mention more tightly edited), going all the way to the barrels escape. *sigh*
"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 24 2013, 9:52pm


Views: 1041
Indeed
but .....you might see it someday.Wink
Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Mar 24 2013, 10:01pm


Views: 1019
Definitely!
I'd still rather have had a tight, streamlined 2-film version of TH, without the Azog padding, and, say, 40+ mins EE for each film of canon stuff that might have needed to be cut.

Here's a novel idea - how about a 2 film version of TH, with all the White Council/Necromancer stuff on the EEs! So you have the TE for Bilbo's version of events, and the EE for the missing "Gandalf's story" Wink

"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort






(This post was edited by Eleniel on Mar 24 2013, 10:04pm)


Oin K
Rivendell


Mar 24 2013, 10:22pm


Views: 969
Did he say it was going to be in DOS for sure?
Alas, I missed the live event, so I'm going on all second-hand accounts here. Did PJ actually say that the scene he was showing us was in DOS? Considering he's probably working on the AUJ:EE as well, it could just as easily be a preview for that.

Heck, even if he outright SAID it was going to be in DOS, I don't think there's any reason to take that as a given, considering everything we've been told before that got moved around (remember this scene was originally referenced in the trailer for film 1, ferchrissake).

I'm with those who feel that it would work better in AUJ:EE, but as always I'll withhold judgment for the final product.
"The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep-breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their snouts were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a snoutless Dwarf - unless he were rhinoplasted in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have snouts from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike..." (History of Middle Earth, volume 11, The War of the Truffles, p. 205)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 24 2013, 10:36pm


Views: 975
I was hoping for High Fells in EE, since it defies cannon. That said. . . The Dol Guldur Battle seems more unlikely to be in film two now
For we now would have to expect that this film will contain The High Fells (which looks good and interesting even if it is all wrong! lmao), Gandalf in Dol Guldur (perhaps twice), some meeting of The White Council in which decisive action is agreed upon (or at least seriously discussed). .. AND all the rest of the stuff in the movie, with an evident expansion of interactions both in Thranduil's halls AND possibly in Laketown.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


leniel Tindome
Rivendell


Mar 24 2013, 10:38pm


Views: 930
Yes it looked digital to me too
...this scene had this annoying TV-style, what made it odd and a bit out of place. Also this eerie and spooky atmosphere ....it was more like a new mystery mock up something.
[url=https://www.facebook.com/REDBOOKTheHalflingMockumentary?ref=hl][bild]http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5245/redbookbanner11.jpg[/bild]


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 24 2013, 10:39pm


Views: 910
Agreed, as stated in my post above, with my reasons.
It looks good, but it isn't anywere near correct, so I would prefer it in EE. But. . . . I am not in charge of production (a real pity Unimpressed Wink) lol.
In Reply To
It makes no sense holding this over to DoS, (neither geographically or pacing-wise,) we don't need another a flashback if the Gandalf/Thrain encounter is going to be past-tense also. The Weta Chronicles show that it would have fitted perfectly after the White Council scenes, and explains why Gandalf is further behind the Dwarves by the time they get to Goblin Town. And why let Chronicles be published if it is not accurate? This must be a really, really late decision... Frown
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


NoelGallagher
Rohan

Mar 24 2013, 10:52pm


Views: 881
seems like
the majority does not like the scene or thinks its not placed well...i really liked the scene with all its creepy atmosphere, brilliant !


vexx801
Rivendell


Mar 24 2013, 10:53pm


Views: 897
Hmm.
Someone on the forums said that this scene may be placed during their stay with Beorn, where Gandalf could explain why he hadn't met up with them.

And they probably kept it out of the Extended Editions because it was necessary for the theatrical audience to see it to make sense of whatever is in film 2 and 3 concerning the whole Necromancer plot line.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 24 2013, 10:58pm


Views: 865
Indeed
thats right, TV like feel. And it felt more like a mock up of mystery searches...

The quiet music was good and appropriate , i guess.
Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Arannir
Valinor

Mar 24 2013, 11:39pm


Views: 864
I guess the Nazgul will be the main opponents...
... for the WC in Dol Guldur. And that is why it needs to be seen outside of the EE.


Glorfindela
Valinor


Mar 24 2013, 11:53pm


Views: 790
I really like the scene
I found it quite scary and want to see the whole thing I don't care how, whether in the AUJ EE or in DoS.

In Reply To
the majority does not like the scene or thinks its not placed well...i really liked the scene with all its creepy atmosphere, brilliant !


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 25 2013, 12:06am


Views: 791
Timeline
As has been mentioned it isn't accurate timeline wise but I did like what we saw and depending on how the entire thing feels I will roll with it (if it keeps the feel of Middle-earth).


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Mar 25 2013, 12:07am


Views: 785
no, it could work
Gandalf travels back to another white council, this time to persuade them to confront the rising evil at dol-duldur. While he travels back, he enters the high fells.

take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


imin
Valinor


Mar 25 2013, 12:37am


Views: 731
Yeah i would have loved that
I think we will see that version though - when we get our EE editions and have our remotes at the ready, lol.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 25 2013, 12:46am


Views: 737
He goes back
towards the goblins infested misty mountains?
Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Mar 25 2013, 1:11am


Views: 719
well....
Thorin and company went towards the goblin infested misty mountains too.

take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


ByThorinsBeard
Rohan


Mar 25 2013, 3:01am


Views: 604
I loved the scene
Looks like the Raddy's shape shifting theory was flushed though, especially since the bats seemed like agents of the necromancer given their attack on Radagast as he fled Dol Guldur.

I could watch Radagast and Gandalf all day though, they are so much fun together.

I think it will work well wherever it is placed.
"Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you anywhere." - Albert Einstein.



Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Mar 25 2013, 12:31pm


Views: 538
I'm a little bit concerned...
about where exactly they are going to put this, and how they are going to implement it into the story. I understand that it's completely outside of canon, but I still expect to see geographic consistency. I hope PJ isn't just thinking "Let's just place it after Beorn's house; the audience won't know that Rhudaur is on the other side of the mountains, where we just came from."

It would be absurd to have Gandalf backtrack through the mountains, after what just happened in Goblin-Town. It would also be absurd for PJ and Co. to take it upon themselves to move Rhudaur to the eastern side of the mountains. So what other possibilities are there? Eagles taking Gandalf back over the mountains? (I hope not.) The ONLY way I can see this working properly is if it's a flashback, perhaps recounted while Gandalf is attempting to convince Saruman of the need to attack. The thing is, it did not at all look like a flashback.

This really should have stayed in AUJ, even if it had to be put in the EE.


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Mar 25 2013, 12:34pm


Views: 520
Might I add...
a STUPID decision, unless it's in flashback form.


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Mar 25 2013, 12:35pm


Views: 522
Did not see sneak peek...
But, what makes a scene not look like a flashback?


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Mar 25 2013, 12:50pm


Views: 521
Maybe it's just me, but...
 It seemed too detailed to be a flashback. Hopefully I am wrong.


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Mar 25 2013, 1:17pm


Views: 521
It depends how it is done.
For example, in TTT (Extended Edition) there is a long scene of Boromir, Faramir, and Denethor at Osgiliath which is a flashback, but quite long/detailed. Which is why I personally don't plan to worry about the possible time/geography issues until after I see the DoS movie. I can see too many ways to reconcile them, to worry that the filmmakers won't take any of them.


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Mar 25 2013, 1:40pm


Views: 513
Yeah...
I guess you're right. I should hold off judgement until after I see DoS.

It's just, well, I was REALLY hoping to see this in the AUJ EE. No sense in complaining about it now though. Smile


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Mar 25 2013, 1:46pm


Views: 509
Oh, I see!
That makes sense.

Personally, my sense is that this scene is too integral to the Necromancer/Dol Guldur subplot of the film series to put in an EE. I suspect not having the information this scene will provide would make TE DoS viewers confused about future decisions the White Council will take based on what Gandalf and Radagast discover.


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Mar 25 2013, 1:51pm


Views: 507
Reply to Vex801
Quote
However, is it also not possible and even plausible that once they arrive at Beorn's house, Gandalf now has time to inform the company of why he was late joining them in the mountains? Or, if he is trying to win Beorn's allegiance while the company is asleep or something, could he not tell the story then, and the High Fells simply be a flashback set here?

The scene does not have much of a flashback-like quality to it I grant you, compared to the FotR prologue or AUJ prologue, but the flashback for RotK was a full scene, so it's not impossible.


Yes, this could work. I'm just hoping that it IS a flashback. But like someone pointed out, the Boromir/Faramir scene in TTT was a good example of a flashback that did not seem at all like a flashback, so I guess it could be done. But it SHOULD be a flashback, if it's supposed to be in Rhudaur.


Escapist
Gondor


Mar 25 2013, 1:56pm


Views: 516
Decisions about TH:DOS should be largely informed by TH:AUJ.
Now that Galadriel has alluded to this plot, I think it would be pretty confusing to drop the thread. I for one am curious now, although I can't really comment a whole lot since I don't really know this story from anywhere.

Maybe the audience won't remember that comment of Galadriel's, but I really do. There was a lot of emotion in her recollections about thinking that something had been sealed and some threat shouldn't be there anymore but was.


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Mar 25 2013, 2:40pm


Views: 513
Totally agree..
Flashback or nothing! Tongue

Also, just exactly what information that this storyline is based upon is taken from the Appendices, hmm? ( other than the Wiki of Angmar connection, of course...)

http://www.theonering.net/...eak-peek-commentary/

[bolding mine]



Quote



Peter then says, to our great disappointment, that they do not have a trailer
for us yet, that it will be coming this summer, but they do have a scene to show
us. He intros it by saying that it's a scene based on information from the
appendices of Lord of the Rings, building on the Necromancer/Dol Guldur story
line and Gandalf's consultation with Galadriel regarding the Morgul blade that
Radagast found. Gandalf goes to what Peter refers to as "the High Fells" to
investigate. The scene opens with Gandalf lighting the end of his staff at the
top of a narrow staircase that goes around the inside wall of a square tower. He
climbs down towards a door that's surrounded by the mangled wreckage of an iron
gate. Through the gate, he enters a narrow crypt with a sarcophagus at the end.
The lid is broken and shoved aside, and as Gandalf slowly approaches, a bird
suddenly flies out and into his face (in what will undoubtedly be a cheap thrill
moment in 3D). Radagast appears in the doorway behind him and takes off his hat
to give the bird access to its nest in his hair.

"Oh. You," says
Gandalf.

"Yes, it's me. Why am I here? This is not a nice place to
meet," replies Radagast.

Gandalf tells him it was built by a nameless
servant of evil -- one of nine.

Radagast asks, "Who would break into
such a foul place?"

"No one. These tombs were opened from the
inside..."

"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort






Elessar
Valinor


Mar 25 2013, 3:10pm


Views: 485
Flashback
I expect it will be a flashback where the dwarves ask Gandalf where he was while they were in Goblin Town. That is until he arrived right near the end of that sequence.


Arannir
Valinor

Mar 25 2013, 3:25pm


Views: 485
Me too...
... I think it is the only moment in time where this could take place.

And it wasn't in AUJ and will not be in the EE because a) it would have destroyed the pacing if Goblintown and Gollum would have been intercut with that scene and b) because the information about the Nine is too important to have it only seen by EE buyers.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Mar 25 2013, 3:38pm


Views: 489
I can't imagine another White Council meeting in Rivendell
In Reply To
Gandalf travels back to another white council, this time to persuade them to confront the rising evil at dol-duldur. While he travels back, he enters the high fells.

I know that Imladris was the tradition meeting place for the Councils of the Wise, but I can't see Gandalf returning there after already crossing the Misty Mountains. I would guess that the Council reconvened at Lothlorien to debate Gandalf's findings and to make a final decision about the Necromancer. I see the High Fells sequence being shown as a flashback to before Gandalf rescued the company in Goblin Town.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 25 2013, 3:52pm


Views: 471
Agreed
That's the one place it makes total sense for it to fit.

Yes, after seeing the movie I don't think this scene would have fit at all in the first movie and gives you a perfect fit for movie two. It's darker feeling and a perfect way to reintroduce the Necromancer storyline in film 2.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Mar 25 2013, 4:31pm


Views: 462
so than there's going to be two flashbacks....
High Fells and Gandalf finding Thrain....what is this a Lost episode now?? Wink

take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Mar 25 2013, 4:37pm


Views: 455
Maybe more...
In Reply To
High Fells and Gandalf finding Thrain....what is this a Lost episode now?? Wink

Who knows? Maybe we will also get another flashback to the fall of Dale. We have to look into Bard's ancestry eventually.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Mar 25 2013, 4:52pm


Views: 455
Haha, good one!
Let's hope it's not a Kate episode... oh wait...

I worry about that sometimes too with these Hobbit films, but then i think that there were a lot of flashbacks in Fellowship, some long and some short, but they are some of my favorite parts of that film. And even in AUJ, there are a few flashbacks, and they are all really cool. So in the end i'm trying not too worry much. Plus, i'm confident that DoS is going to be a lot better than AUJ overall.


sycorax82
Rohan

Mar 25 2013, 8:51pm


Views: 432
It's a shame that the structure of the films is already a big mess...
This is far worse than what happened with TTT and ROTK. It's like Peter has been trying to salvage 3 films any way he can with all planning out the window!

Bilbo's character arc is already in tatters thanks to him proving himself too early, thus leaving his actions with Mirkwood and the barrels far less impressive. Also they've botched something so straightforward as Gandalf getting the key from Thrain, and I can't wait to find out whether we even see that moment in the end, in either theatrical or EE versions, or whether it'll end up on the cutting room floor, seeing as it doesn't make sense anymore!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Mar 26 2013, 4:51am


Views: 391
hey i'll take a....
Gandalf flashback episode anyday over any character on Lost!!!!

take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Mar 26 2013, 4:53am


Views: 404
agree and disagree
if it was two films, we wouldn't have "out of order" scenes. However, now that it is three films...We are getting more middle-earth, more scenes, more character development ect...So yes, i would have loved the High Fells during the dwarves being held captives in the misty mountains but its a sacrifice i'm willing pay for a grand trilogy.

take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


kbdiggity
Rivendell

Mar 27 2013, 3:05am


Views: 365
....
Have a little faith. Peter Jackson may make changes to the overall story and insert dumb stuff like the scrubbing bubbles ghosts in RoTK... but he has never let us down when it comes to geography.

However he crams the High Fells into the story, it will be geographically appropriate.


kbdiggity
Rivendell

Mar 27 2013, 4:01am


Views: 360
....
Thought more about it.

Radagast went from Mirkwood to the Troll Cave thanks to his amazing bunny sled.

Perhaps Gandalf will use the amazing bunny sled to go from Beorn's to the High Fells.


No distance is too far for the amazing bunny sled.


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Mar 27 2013, 1:24pm


Views: 373
Dol Guldur
Dol Guldur is quite a ways south of where the group was. Maybe Radagast and his bunny sled went through the Gap of Rohan, and then shot north after they passed the mountains?

Just trying to make sense of all this...