The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Battle of Five Armies



RaoulJ
Rivendell


Mar 5 2013, 9:01am


Views: 1227
The Battle of Five Armies
I was thinking about the the big 'end' battle. How can it be special? Without getting bigger and undoing the Battle of The Pelennor Fields? They can't use big siege weapons etc..

I read several interviews that it would have some aerial fighting - some dogfights. And PJ loves them so they will be there..

But still.,. It wasn't special to me - just a rehash of the battles of LotR: with the fell beasts, picking up people.

But yesterday I received the Hobbit Chronicles I - Art book. And in the forword by Dan Hennah he talks about how Bilbo (and the viewer) makes a journey from the sunny Shire to Dale, midwinter!

I didn't think of this, but a snowy battle is great. Just try to imagine: Wind, snow, frozen beards of the dwarves. The orcs coming down the mountainside. The boars of the cavalry storming through snow... Great imagery...

What do you think?


Joe20
Lorien


Mar 5 2013, 9:08am


Views: 736
I hadn't thought of that either
but your descriptions do make that sound really great. I hope something like that does occur.


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 5 2013, 9:28am


Views: 774
There are a couple of shots in one of the vlogs
where you can see snow in Dale. So there will definitely be snow around. Having a midwinter battle would spectacular though (as long as the CGI is good.) There's nothing worse than bad CGI precipitation!

As for it outdoing the Siege of Gondor ... why shouldn't it? We've got 5 massive Armies, plus a wizard and a Hobbit, a bunch of bats and trolls, eagles and a shapeshifting bear! They should go all out.


Kullervo
Rivendell


Mar 5 2013, 10:40am


Views: 669
Yes
A battle in the snow in the winter would look great and help it stand out as unique in the films. I hope this is what they are doing.


emre43
Rohan

Mar 5 2013, 11:28am


Views: 653
Where have trolls been confirmed?
 


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 5 2013, 11:38am


Views: 635
I didn't say they had been confirmed
And they shouldn't really have been on my list (since it doesn't say they were there in the book). I always imagined that Trolls were involved in some way though.

Smile


emre43
Rohan

Mar 5 2013, 11:47am


Views: 609
You did pretty much say they were confirmed. You categorically said 'We've' got...trolls
 


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 5 2013, 11:51am


Views: 588
Sorry for the misleading comment. :-) /
 


ShireHorse
Rohan

Mar 5 2013, 1:40pm


Views: 586
Great idea, Raoul!
A battle in the snow would be good.

Do people remember the front covers of the Empire Hobbit Special?

http://www.empireonline.com/...terview.asp?IID=1604

The Thorin one confused me because it is snowing. Is there a connection? On the other hand, he looks quite young in that shot and his clothing belongs to AUJ. Presumably, the elves will confiscate that but where does the snow come in?


Kullervo
Rivendell


Mar 5 2013, 2:04pm


Views: 576
It's a promotional pic
So it's not strange that it has different elements from the movies mixed together. But it seems to indigate that there is a snowy enviroment at least somewhere in the movies, and as DanielLB already mentioned we have seen glimpses of a snowy Dale. I just hope it will be winter during the battle, even though I've never imagined it being winter when I've read the book. But it would be unique, and it would also be great thematically, if we see the winter turn in to spring with (SPOILERS!) Thorin's funeral and the coronation of Dáin.


andwise
Rivendell


Mar 5 2013, 2:36pm


Views: 554
battle in the snow.
I'm loving that idea my friend! That would be fantastic,give it a real feel of originality that sets it apart from rings.lets hope this is the way they go.
Arrow....black arrow,I have saved you to the last.you have never failed me and always I have recovered you.I had you from my father and he from old.if ever you came from the forges of the true king under the mountain,go now and speed well


imin
Valinor


Mar 5 2013, 2:48pm


Views: 538
The battle was some time in late November wasn't it?
I think i can remember reading something like that. If that were the case then i assume their would be some snow about the mountain/general area.

I think it will help differentiate it as well from the LOTR battles and overall be awesome.


Brego93
The Shire


Mar 5 2013, 3:16pm


Views: 510
It will highlight Middle-earth geography to the causal film viewer too!
Another way for the triologies to be distinct showing that Erebor is in the North amongst the snow.
"I don't know half of you as half as well as I should like and I like less than half of you as well as you deserve"


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Mar 5 2013, 3:18pm


Views: 522
I also wonder
That shot with Elijah Wood in Bag End at the beginning shows him picking up a rusted old helm of some kind. I wonder if that's the helm Bilbo will wear before he's knocked out. That had to be in the scene for a reason.
No go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/12


Anubis
Rivendell


Mar 5 2013, 4:22pm


Views: 490
That would be neat.
It would definitely set it apart from other battles, and give it a unique "taste". Besides, dwarves in the snow are a must.


emre43
Rohan

Mar 5 2013, 5:45pm


Views: 421
No problem :-)
 


Rostron2
Gondor


Mar 5 2013, 7:26pm


Views: 400
Good thoughts
Snow could figure on the slopes of the mountain, even if its not actively snowing. It was described as cold!

The book describes the progress of the battle pretty well. We've discussed a number of the tactics used, and odd creatures like Beorn make it interesting, and so do the bats, and how they might be employed. I think the battle will be unique because it's simply very different armies employed from Pelennor and/or Helm's Deep. It's smaller in terms of numbers for the defenders, however, anything is possible now in the movie canon version. Perhaps Gandalf could use a little fire magic to melt some snow and cause a landslide or something? I know theyr'e not big into magic from staffs, but it might be fun to watch goblins buried in a landslide.


Fàfnir
Rohan


Mar 5 2013, 9:31pm


Views: 379
Thorin will have a special armor during the battle. I hope Azog will too !
With furr for the frost ! He comes from mount Gundabad after all, so he can't be half naked all the time


(This post was edited by Fàfnir on Mar 5 2013, 9:32pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Mar 5 2013, 10:16pm


Views: 341
I think that Trolls are more likely at Dol Guldur
I can easily imagine that the Necromancer has Trolls in his service, but I don't want them to show up at the Battle of the Five Armies.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Mar 6 2013, 1:32am


Views: 303
Aerial battle
In Reply To
I read several interviews that it would have some aerial fighting - some dogfights. And PJ loves them so they will be there..

But still.,. It wasn't special to me - just a rehash of the battles of LotR: with the fell beasts, picking up people.

I read that the aerial battle would be between the eagles and swarms of bats, so it will probably have a different feel from the fell beasts in Gondor. I'm guessing similar to the eagles and fell beasts at the Black Gate, but more in depth. I think it has potential.


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Mar 6 2013, 2:23am


Views: 285
problem there is that they'll have to be careful with animals/monsters (as there are a LOT of them) and I don't want it to turn into a Narnia film battle .. //
 
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Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Mar 6 2013, 2:26am


Views: 286
Yeah:
I'm kinda not liking the fact that these Northern/Gundabad/Iron Hills orcs have so little armour, and what they do have is really bonkers and un-uniform.. the orcs loose some atmosphere as a result IMO

It's good that the orcs are so varied in design... but.. maybe too much so? They don't appear as one body anymore really,... more like a rabid freak show out ot get some action on those lil'dwarves... ..
Pirate
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jtarkey
Rohan


Mar 6 2013, 3:23am


Views: 289
I've honestly always thought this would be the case
Just because it's unbelievably awesome and picturing it in my head looks amazing.
"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


Dwarf Cupcake
The Shire


Mar 6 2013, 6:21am


Views: 268
Weren't Pickups
for DOS and TABA supposed to start in May? That's winter time in New Zealand. Makes sense then if you want to have lots of snow around when you're filming snowy battle scenes...
Not All those who wander are lost...


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 6 2013, 9:13am


Views: 255
Agreed ... but ...
I am slightly nervous that it won't live up to my expectations. I've always said how I find the battle a lot more thrilling than any in the LOTR books.

What if it's rubbish? Crazy


Rolfina
Rivendell


Mar 6 2013, 9:18am


Views: 161
Well, just lower your expectations then.
Wink
I know, that's not easily done. But I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you. I have a feeling it will be AT LEAST every bit as great as the battles in LotR. Film battles usually bore me out of my mind, but those I liked.


imin
Valinor


Mar 6 2013, 11:45am


Views: 143
I would say lower your expectations
But i think seeing as you love all PJ's previous M-e films i think you will like his final one. I am hoping he doesn't go OTT for the BoFA but i have a feeling he probably can't do that for you for this battle, lol.

I do think this battle is special, what with the circumstances of how it came to be and then also for the different groups involved. I think PJ will certainly take it to the next level.


dik-dik
Lorien


Mar 6 2013, 12:54pm


Views: 145
Re: snow and fights in BoFA
In Reply To
I was thinking about the the big 'end' battle. How can it be special? Without getting bigger and undoing the Battle of The Pelennor Fields? They can't use big siege weapons etc.. I read several interviews that it would have some aerial fighting - some dogfights. And PJ loves them so they will be there..
I wouldn't like this battle to supersede Pelennor and Black Gate in scope. With Lake-town destroyed along with most resources, and the Wood-elves not being prepared for such a battle (unless Thranduil had a gift of foresight or something), and presumably unused to fighting in the open - I can't see the good-side participants (save Dáin's dwarves) putting up such resistance as experienced Gondorians and Rohirrim.
But aerial fights sounds interesting. We've seen fell beasts vs. eagles - it makes me wonder what giant bats vs. eagles would look like.

In Reply To
I didn't think of this, but a snowy battle is great. Just try to imagine: Wind, snow, frozen beards of the dwarves. The orcs coming down the mountainside. The boars of the cavalry storming through snow... Great imagery...
What do you think?
As long as there's not too much snow (after all, a charge of Dwarves in deep snow can't look very epic, I imagine), there should be some powerful scenes. If loads of snow are involved, I'd like to see someone from the goodie camp arrange for an avalanche to destroy an orc contingent; the less gore, the better, as far as I am concerned.
I'm still bothered by the boars though. I'd personally prefer original battle sequences on the mountain slopes than yet other bizarre mounts (don't the HoME books say the Dwarves weren't particularly good with animals?).
"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Mar 6 2013, 2:43pm


Views: 126
June and July
The actors arrive at the end of May. Pickups are all June and July so yep this will be Winter in NZ and I would expect to see snow.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13

(This post was edited by Ham_Sammy on Mar 6 2013, 2:44pm)


imin
Valinor


Mar 6 2013, 2:49pm


Views: 120
Yay! Sounds like it is going to look magnificent! //
 


jtarkey
Rohan


Mar 6 2013, 8:27pm


Views: 136
It probably won't live up to my expectations
But I can still dream!
"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"