The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
A Conversation with Smaug The Magnificent. . . should be as thrilling (and more grand) in its way as Riddles in The Dark



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 30 2013, 5:04am


Views: 1228
A Conversation with Smaug The Magnificent. . . should be as thrilling (and more grand) in its way as Riddles in The Dark

For one, I hope the psychic through the Ring way that Bilbo hears the spiders is not used for the Smaug communication. The Dragon is savvy, cunning and a master conversationalist, and I would be appalled if the suggestion is made that the only reason Bilbo can communicate with him is because he is wearing the Ring.

That said, if Smaug does speak properly.. . that the scene should be spectacular, and should receive all the time that Gollum received in An Unexpected Journey. Smaug IS magnificent, eloquent, grandiose, and extremely clever (almost brilliant) in his insight, deductions and persuasion. . . he commentary to Bilbo concerning the duplicity and avarice of dwarves is exquisite, and I would be most dissapointed if it does not make it in. The suave and sinister conversation of Smaug should stand out as a great moment in film history, and I hope it is done all the justice it deserves.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Old Toby
Grey Havens


Jan 30 2013, 5:21am


Views: 746
Smaug the Smokin!

I for one cannot wait to see/hear my favorite dragon played by my favorite actor! I'm giddy with anticipation! And there's still a year to do before we get his Magnificence on screen! BC said he studied Komodo dragons in order to get their mannerisms. I can only imagine! And I'm really curious as to how he is going to converse with Bilbo. I imagine it's a mind-to-mind thing. I would be horrified if he actually moved his lips! (Gahhh! Please, no!) But I have faith that PJ & crew will give us something quite memorable. One way or the other (LOL).

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 30 2013, 5:42am


Views: 728
Not a year. A little over

ten months now. Time is moving.

And I hope he doesn't make the movements TOO lizardic. Smaug isn't a lizard, scoffs at the notion. He is very warm blooded for one. lol.

As to the mind thing. . . I don't know. I think it would be awful if people thought the only reason Bilbo could "hear" Smaug was because of the Ring and mind melding.

The Dragons of Middle-Earth talk. Period. And Smaug seemingly LOVES to talk and is fairly fond of the sound of his own voice. In any event, he need not move his lips to speak. Birds manage it well enough, and they don't even have lips.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


lurtz2010
Rohan

Jan 30 2013, 6:15am


Views: 739
Like how Bilbo actually wanted to confess everything to Smaug

Smaug is cunning ... playing with Bilbo's mind asking how he expected to get the treasure all the way back home etc, it should be an iconic scene and even make the audience start second guessing the dwarves.


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Jan 30 2013, 6:33pm)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 30 2013, 6:24am


Views: 693
Exactly!

Smaug plays it so mesmerizingly and with near genius. Questions about packaging, shipping, guards on the road, the tolls!!! All these things the naive hobbit never considered, made all the more suspicious in the Hobbit's mind because the dwarves never really mentioned half of them. Smaug is a master mind shagger! And I hope we get every excellent second of it.

In Reply To
Smaug is cunning... playing with Bilbo's mind asking how he expected to get the treasure all the way back home etc, it should be an iconic scene and even make the audience start second guessing the dwarves.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by Ataahua on Jan 30 2013, 6:36pm)


Arannir
Valinor

Jan 30 2013, 6:51am


Views: 713
THIS!

And I think it should be the climax of DoS - as I think the Battle for Dol Guldur will happen at the end of DoS as well, I would really love this intercut between a "battle" (although I think this will not be a conventional battle, rather a man on man battle of our known characters and possibly some animals) and this thrilling conversation.

This already worked nicely with Helm's Deep and Osgiliath - just that Smaug and Erebor are a bit more exciting than the Nazgul and the ruins, I think ;)


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 30 2013, 3:54pm


Views: 556
Good thread -- I agree

Smaug is a fascinating character, and also shapes Bilbo's experiences like Gollum and the finding of the ring.

In fact, it's another case where Bilbo's education and just plain being a hobbit adds value to the whole experience of talking with Smaug. None of the dwarves could have handled talking with the dragon, and his conversation provided useful information that is put to good use.

Smaug isn't just a furnace with wings, he has good eyesight; great hearing; and an excellent sense of smell. The ring gives Bilbo a little bit of an advantage in being able to talk without being incinerated, but this is also the classic Tolkien dragon. Smaug's predecessor, Glaurung, had a similar tendency to talk a lot.

We could have a whole thread just on dragon origins in M-E.


sycorax82
Rohan

Jan 30 2013, 4:01pm


Views: 572
Smaug should speak with his lips, I reckon

We should see Benedict Cumberbatch's full performance put across, which includes his mouth movement. Telepathy would make him less of a character.

If the trolls can speak then so can Smaug.


Oleander Took
Rivendell


Jan 30 2013, 4:06pm


Views: 585
I Don't remember if this has been posted but

in, i think it is February issue of Empire there is a bit about DoS and this is what Benedict said about Smaug

“We weren’t in the same room together. If Martin had been there, I would have wanted to play off him, but there are size issues. Smaug is bigger than the hobbit – I think I can say that!

This isn’t the riddles scene. It’s slightly different, it’s intricate. Smaug doesn’t engage with the Hobbit the same way as Smeagol does. Smeagol gets drawn in, whereas Smaug is on much more of an ego trip. He likes to feel dominant at all times, and because of what he’s capable of, he is.


You can read the rest here

"There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something."


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 30 2013, 4:19pm


Views: 588
Batch

Is a skilled actor. He'll make it work with line delivery regardless of what it looks like. I can already see threads about how some will think it looked bad, and the majority will simply enjoy the scene.


cats16
Valinor

Jan 30 2013, 4:23pm


Views: 556
What if...

DOS ended with Smaug going to Laketown in a fury, while the dwarves still think he's hanging around. And as well with the battle at Dol Guldor. I always thought that the point when Smaug leaves is a good breaking point. Then TABA would start with him attacking Laketown.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 30 2013, 4:26pm


Views: 539
That's what I think

Maximize what we see of the dragon by spreading him across two films. After all, it was the dragon they came to dispose of.


imin
Valinor


Jan 30 2013, 4:36pm


Views: 560
He is a great choice

brilliant actor, don't think i have ever seen him in anything where he is bad, really looking forward to his performance.

I think most will like his casting and think it will work. I am as confident about him as i was Martin Freeman for Bilbo, also cant wait to see them both in the next Sherlock series! Smile


bborchar
Rohan


Jan 30 2013, 5:26pm


Views: 533
Well, you know...

There's obviously only ONE way to depict a mythological talking fantasy creature...and I'm sure the movie will get it wrong with some people, no matter what.


Arannir
Valinor

Jan 30 2013, 5:31pm


Views: 518
That is what I meant...

The conversation the climax... but including Bilbo's flight and the sending of the thrush.


cats16
Valinor

Jan 30 2013, 5:53pm


Views: 550
Gotcha.

I almost forgot about the thrush! Yeah, definitely.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 30 2013, 6:23pm


Views: 510
well in Florida

I saw a sign for an attraction that featured a 'talking alligator'. I bet that's what they'll use Wink


adnan
Rivendell


Jan 30 2013, 6:32pm


Views: 505
You know...

I always had a feeling he wont be moving his lips when he talks. It will be more like how Gladriel communicated with Gandalf. I am fine either way to be honest.

Rivendell


bborchar
Rohan


Jan 30 2013, 6:53pm


Views: 487
I ate at a restaurant near Destin...

Where they kept baby alligators for the patrons to hold (I have a terrible picture of me doing so somewhere). Its mouth was taped shut, though, so I don't know if it could talk or not ;)


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 30 2013, 6:54pm


Views: 497
I only wonder

What Benedict's Mo-Cap will be for if there's no physical lips/mouth action?


Kimtc
Rohan


Jan 30 2013, 7:19pm


Views: 495
The lip movement worries me

There are other movies where they tried to have talking dragons (Dragonheart, Eragon) and it just didn't work. So either they have some new wonder CGI that will make this better, or it will be a mind meld of some sort. I just want it to be awesome! In fact, it must be awesome! No expectations or anything.


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Jan 30 2013, 8:25pm


Views: 451
I can't get your link to work...

but I did find another feature on that EMPIRE article here


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort






The Mitch King
Rohan


Jan 31 2013, 12:38am


Views: 441
Smaug's lips

Maybe they will have him in the shadows somewhat....you can see he's talking but don't have to show a close up of the lips.


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Jan 31 2013, 1:19am


Views: 382
I agree with all of this

That's how I want the scene with Smaug to play out. Smaug is magnificent, so they should show his magnificence. That's what I'm looking most forward to about the movie, is the big reveal of Smaug. It must be spectacular. Cool


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Jan 31 2013, 1:24am


Views: 382
I thought that they talk with telepathy in Eragon?

 


Kimtc
Rohan


Jan 31 2013, 3:49am


Views: 265
I swear I thought she spoke

But it may be I'm remembering her moving her head at him, like they were having a conversation. It was creepy, whatever it was.

I just want to see Smaug and go "Whoa!" I will be very disappointed if I find it amusing or cartoonish. Must have magnificence.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Feb 1 2013, 10:20pm


Views: 211
All very true and

perfectly stated. Smile

In Reply To
Smaug is a fascinating character, and also shapes Bilbo's experiences like Gollum and the finding of the ring.

In fact, it's another case where Bilbo's education and just plain being a hobbit adds value to the whole experience of talking with Smaug. None of the dwarves could have handled talking with the dragon, and his conversation provided useful information that is put to good use.

Smaug isn't just a furnace with wings, he has good eyesight; great hearing; and an excellent sense of smell. The ring gives Bilbo a little bit of an advantage in being able to talk without being incinerated, but this is also the classic Tolkien dragon. Smaug's predecessor, Glaurung, had a similar tendency to talk a lot.

We could have a whole thread just on dragon origins in M-E.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Feb 1 2013, 10:28pm


Views: 212
Hence the more grande in my op. This should be as engaging and as intense as Riddles,

but certainly there are differences. Smaug is not Gollum and Gollum is NO Smaug. Gollum relies on being unobtrusive. It is key to the threat he poses. Left in plain sight and close quarters with an Orc, Dwarf, Man or Elf, his only real hope would be in being underestimated (i.e. his larger, deadlier opponent not taking into account his psycho strength. . . and even that would likely not be sufficient against an Elf, dwarf or an orc like Azog or Lurtz).

Smaug. . . even his attempts at not being seen are of a massive, force of nature scale (sending up a city enveloping fog by dipping his massive foot into the lake. . . so that you cannot see him or anything else, including the rest of the city)! He is all about granduer, all about the magnificence of himself, and he never forgets his own name. . . but a massive ego, with all the heft, bulk and power to back it, can be just as fascinating and mesmerizing as a pitiable, psychotic slinker.

And Smaug is also very cagey and very clever. Fascinatingly so.

In Reply To
in, i think it is February issue of Empire there is a bit about DoS and this is what Benedict said about Smaug

“We weren’t in the same room together. If Martin had been there, I would have wanted to play off him, but there are size issues. Smaug is bigger than the hobbit – I think I can say that!

This isn’t the riddles scene. It’s slightly different, it’s intricate. Smaug doesn’t engage with the Hobbit the same way as Smeagol does. Smeagol gets drawn in, whereas Smaug is on much more of an ego trip. He likes to feel dominant at all times, and because of what he’s capable of, he is.


You can read the rest here


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Feb 1 2013, 10:39pm


Views: 207
The mind meld worries me because that is essentially what is being done with the spiders, and in that case it is attributed to the Ring.

I.E. the Ring allows Bilbo to understand Evil beasties. But Smaug is an intellect, and a capable conversationalist whether you wield a Great Ring or not. It would be horrible for him to come across as just a lumbering beastie whom Bilbo can only make sense of because he has a Ring on. That is my only major concern there. (Smaug also laughs. . . enough to shake the treasury). One of my few qualms with The Balrog was that Peter might have gone a little to bestial with his gait and by making him roar, as well as in the decision not to film the scene in which he contests Gandalf's wizardry with his own demonic sorcery for control of the door to the chamber of Marzabul. In dealing with an audience where not everyone knows better, I would rather it be clear that Smaug can definitely reason clearly, and very cleverly, and talk.

In Reply To
There are other movies where they tried to have talking dragons (Dragonheart, Eragon) and it just didn't work. So either they have some new wonder CGI that will make this better, or it will be a mind meld of some sort. I just want it to be awesome! In fact, it must be awesome! No expectations or anything.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Feb 1 2013, 10:44pm


Views: 216
Definitely!

Cool

In Reply To
That's how I want the scene with Smaug to play out. Smaug is magnificent, so they should show his magnificence. That's what I'm looking most forward to about the movie, is the big reveal of Smaug. It must be spectacular. Cool


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Feb 2 2013, 11:24pm


Views: 260
Great Post

I have always felt B C was a great choice. I love his nuanced performances in Atonement and Parades End. To non believers it sounds daft but this dragon needs to be cast properly. I also think the script team, who know of Glaurung, will be very aware of Tolkiens genius for inhabiting these creatures with "Morgoths strain" the dragons personality and all its foibles is a very direct consequence of Morgoths ancient interventions in the Music. A part of Morgoths dispersed power is on show here and that is what our funny little chap is pitted against. This could be amazing and one of the best examples of portraying evil in middle earth.

Like the thread starter I believe Bilbo's encounter and conversation with his magnificence could be the great chamber piece in the third act that the Gollum/Bilbo scene was. Counter pointing the battle in the south and finally Smaug getting in a serious paddy flying off down the Lake as he does at the end of Chapter 12.

I tried to save the shire , and it has been but not for me.