The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit: The Little Details (aka, Ro's been thinking again)

The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Little Details (aka, Ro's been thinking again)

Roheryn
Tol Eressea

Jan 23 2013, 10:41am

Views: 1908

The Little Details (aka, Ro's been thinking again)

All right, I figure we’re not ready yet for another thread about Thorin and his hair (though if I’m wrong, by all means please hijack this thread and I’ll be delighted). So here’s what I’m musing on tonight: I’ve read too many complaints about how PJ & co didn’t follow the book and I haven’t yet seen much attention paid to the little details where PJ *did* follow the book wonderfully closely.

So, I’ve got three questions for you:

1. Have you gone back to re-read The Hobbit since you first saw the movie? If so, has your appreciation of the book changed at all?
2. Have you been particularly struck by any little details in the book (or other source material) that you think were nicely depicted in the movie?

(Please note well that I’m not saying following or not following the book is good or bad or otherwise! And I’m not starting this thread to get into yet another debate about the merits of such!)

My answers:

1. I haven’t re-read the whole thing yet, but have been reading through parts of it, and am reading it from the beginning with my two young boys (for the second time – at their request; we finished reading it the first time about two months before AUJ was released). At the moment, as I read the book, I imagine all the characters in the book as they’re portrayed in the movie; and I find the reading is that much richer an experience. (Thank you, PJ.) I actually care about these Dwarves now, and especially about Thorin.
2. Yes, naturally, or I wouldn’t have asked this! Three in particular I’ve noticed: in the book, Bilbo falls asleep listening to Thorin humming “Far over the Misty Mountains cold…” – exact same lyrics as the first stanza of the song in the movie (no stanza in the poem a few pages earlier has the exact same wording). Note that Thorin is *humming*, just as all the Dwarves do in the movie before Thorin starts singing. I wondered if that line about humming was the inspiration for how the song was done in the movie. Neat.
Also, in a couple of different places, Oin and Gloin are identified as particularly good at starting fires. It is they whom Thorin tells to get a fire going just before the troll scene, and Oin (if I remember right) who wants to start one in the cave just before they fall into Goblin-town.
Finally, when rescued by Eagles in the book, Bilbo clings to Dori’s legs as Dori is carried off by an Eagle; in the movie, Dori still has a dangler but this time it’s Ori.

Thoughts, musings, observations, answers, funny noises, or hijackings (but only if they’re related to Thorin) welcome!

macfalk
Valinor

Jan 23 2013, 10:49am

Views: 1153

Yeah

2. Have you been particularly struck by any little details in the book (or other source material) that you think were nicely depicted in the movie?

Definately. One of my favourite scenes in the movie is Gandalf's "pep-talk" with Bilbo of how he's also a Took and the invention of golf. The movie did that even better than the book!

The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.

Alcarcalime
Tol Eressea

Jan 23 2013, 11:26am

Views: 1158

Thorin, sigh!

I am not one for drooling over movie characters, but I have decided to make an exception in Thorin's case. I agreed with Balin completely when he said *there was one whom he could follow*.

O.K. - drool over.

I haven't reread the Hobbit since I saw the movie. OhioHobbit is reading it just now and he told me last night that I should reread it to get over my sorrow that the movie has left our theaters. He just told me that he thinks that the line whicih is better in the movie than in the book is when Gandalf says at the beginning that he is Gandalf and Gandalf is me. He thought it sounded awkward in the book, but that Ian McKellen did it so perfectly.

As soon as the book is available, I am going to reread it. I am sure that all the dwarves will look like their movie counterparts since LOTR has already undergone that transformation.

Angharad73
Rohan

Jan 23 2013, 12:06pm

Views: 1111

It's in the details and the imagination

When I first saw the movie, I was actually quite pleasantly surprised by how closely the first meeting between Bilbo and Gandalf followes the book - or at least how I imagined the whole scene when reading the book. It's not so much that PJ followed the book by the letter but that he caught the spirit of the scene.

The mention of Golf also made me giggle because I remembered that so well from the book.

I also noticed the bridge in Rivendell. It's described in the book as just wide enough for a pony to cross and without a parapet. I always thought that I wouldn't want to cross that kind of bridge (this sort of thing makes me nervous). In the movie, the bridge looked just as scary to me as I imagined it.

Now, I'm always happy to talk about Thorin, be it his hair or other parts... Tongue

macfalk
Valinor

Jan 23 2013, 12:19pm

Views: 1124

Thorin humming in his sleep

Interesting - when I re-read The Hobbit again after seeing the movie, I noticed this as well. Somehow in my previous re-readings it just went past my head but now after the movie, this little detail had a great impact on me. It's just like the Misty Mountains song in the movie.

The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.

Eowyn3
Rivendell

Jan 23 2013, 1:19pm

Views: 1085

The Hobbit book and Thorin

I re-read the book just a couple days before the release of the movie and I'm sure it made the movie a lot more enjoyable. At the beginning of the movie, when we have the good morning scene, I just couldn't stop smiling. It was even better than I had pictured reading the book. I felt like Martin Freeman was so great as Bilbo that it was like Bilbo stepped right out of the book.
About Thorin and the other dwarves, I love Richard Armitage playing Thorin. It makes me like the character more than I ever did reading the book. I love him singing The Lonely Mountain song. It's so beautiful. And by the way, I love his hair!
In the end I think PJ was able to bring out the personality of the dwarves in a fantastic way, and I'm now able to remember all their names.
Glad the movies till playing in my town. I'm going to watch it today again for the 6th time!

bborchar
Rohan

Jan 23 2013, 2:40pm

Views: 1050

I'm always up for another Thorin thread, lol...

...he's the first movie character that I've really liked in a very long time. His hair is pretty awesome, too. Kinda wish my hair looked like that.

1. I have reread it. I reread it after the first viewing (it had been years since I did read it, so I didn't remember much). Actually, rereading the book made my appreciation of the movie increase. The book is a light read, and I didn't find the characters very engaging. I usually read books in order to really chew through the details...but they are lacking in the book. That's why I really loved watching the movie again...it's like they fleshed out everything I found lacking in the book.

2. I felt like The Unexpected Party was depicted wonderfully in the film...and it's usually the type of scene that gets shorted in a film, due to the lack of action. But I loved it. I was also a little shocked that the film was able to follow the book so closely without feeling like a clone. It was nice.

Now, back to Thorin, I can't wait for him to show up with the bow and arrows in the next film. He's just bada$& in every way possible, it seems. Maybe I can even hope he has to take off his shirt so they can dress his wounds? ;) Yup, I'm a fangirl, guilty as charged.

Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator

Jan 23 2013, 3:20pm

Views: 1013

I liked Thorin's observatory table that lets him read the map

I have no idea what it is, but I've formed my own opinion that since the table seems to be part of the very mountain itself, it could have been a mithril lode that the Elves didn't mine out, but fashioned into ithildin within the mountainside itself. And since ithildin of course mirrors moonlight and starlight, it's the reason it blazes with white light the moment the moon comes out from behind the clouds.

As an aside, I would've liked to have seen Balin mutter something like "Mithril... Moria" under his breath when he saw it, foreshadowing his desire to return and reclaim Moria.

I didn't recall the book mentioning Bilbo falling asleep while Thorin hums the song to himself. I'll be seeing the movie in a new light after this. And I also didn't notice that Oin and Gloin are the ones asked to light the fires in the movie.

As for hijacking the thread, I do have a Thorin-type observation mentioned in a YouTube comment about one particular scene, but it's not family friendly at all. At all.

Alassëa Eruvande
Valinor

Jan 23 2013, 3:21pm

Views: 1067

Thorin's hair? Yes!

Rock-n-roll guitarist Thorin Laugh

1. Re reading The Hobbit? Yes. I started reading it aloud to my two boys in the weeks before the movie came out. But life, after school activities,and other reading assignments get in the way, and we're only to Rivendell. Frown

My appreciation of the book hasn't changed that much. But Mr. Eruvande noted that the dwarves in the book behave more like the Keystone Kops, rather than the bad @$$e$ they are in the movie.

2. Little Details. I really loved the dwarve's cleaning up of Bag End, with all the flying saucers and mayhem. I also thought the Riddles in the Dark was very well done, even if they didn't do every riddle.

Favorite. Shot. Ever.

Lucky lady! She got to play with his hair!

Funny noises. Laugh

I am SMAUG! I kill when I wish! I am strong, strong, STRONG!
My armor is like tenfold shields! My teeth like swords! My claws, spears!
The shock of my tail, a thunderbolt! My wings, a hurricane! And my breath, death!

IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Jan 23 2013, 3:31pm

Views: 989

Not IN the Book You Know

. . . but I loved Balin's jibe at Sting's (yet to be named) being more of a letter opener. And the elves are a little silly in the book so that was going to be an issue with the darker tone. I think PJ did a great job in quoting that by how the elves played their instruments for the dwarves.

Otaku-sempai
Immortal

Jan 23 2013, 4:26pm

Views: 1021

You mean 'Elrond's table' I suppose...

More likely that the ink used in the moon letters is made with ithildin. The table seems to be fashioned from crystal.

I don't entirely care for that scene. That is a lot of trouble to go to when all that is required is to hold the map up to the moonllight! I assume that the table allows the user to check for runes made during other phases of the moon and times of year as well.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jan 23 2013, 4:28pm)

julia0925
The Shire

Jan 23 2013, 5:08pm

Views: 965

re-read? no; details? yes

1. Re-read after the movie, no. My book group chose it for our November book, though, so I did read it prior to the movie coming out. I usually don't do that, I'd rather see the movie for itself than for what I remember from the book so I don't spend the whole move going, "what about such and such?" I may have to re-read now, though. Totally missed the humming thing.

2. Not sure if this is a little detail, but in the books the dwarves are mostly a forgettable clump. Once in a while one will do something that will require a name so we know who did it, but for the most part I wasn't ever emotionally invested in them. Not even sure I really cared for Bilbo, although as a whole I liked the story. The movie, though, fleshes out each dwarf beautifully.

Speaking of which, Thorin really does have great hair, doesn't he? I'm a little new here, so missed all the previous posts about Thorin's hair. Especially when being carried by the eagle. Very flowy. One of the details I picked up on from my first viewing. CGI doesn't usually do a good job with hair, so they must have actually filmed RA in the clutches of the eagle. Fili and Kili have pretty great hair too; must run in the family.

-----
Lotr: You know it's been a bad day when even the elf is smudged.
TH: when the going gets tough, the tough call the eagles.

Rostron2
Gondor

Jan 23 2013, 5:50pm

Views: 914

The Hobbit as a book & film

1. Yes, I did re-read the book. My estimation of the story hasn't changed, largely because it was the first book of Tolkien's I ever read, and I was hooked.

2. I'm constantly struck by how much detail there is in these films, and how much work went into many of the scenes. I was charmed by the tone of the film, which is rarely found today. It's also an adaptation that does bring certain things to life that the book doesn't. The culture of the dwarves; the dwarves themselves and their backstory were all well told. It's done with surprisingly little screen time, too. Like the brilliant prologue of LOTR, things are summed up pretty neatly in a short time. Since film is a visual media, it has that advantage, but there were scant details even from the book, and I thought the film-makers did a splendid job extrapolating visuals from very little description. The equipment carried with the company, the careworn clothing, and some of the visuals are just stunning.

I also like how PJ's camera work again follows the journey from left to right, (west to east) as you would follow the map. Whether you know Middle-earth or not, it gives a consistency to the geography, and pacing of movement that's very important.

The details in the physical sets are always fun to look at in stills and screencaps. The swords and helmet on the wall behind old Bilbo now look like they came from Dale, since we see similar weapons and armor on the soldier during the dragon attack. It difficult to breathe life into a world as vast as Tolkien's, but PJ and his crew have lost none of their skill in recapturing it. It still lives and breathes as it did ten years ago.

Someone made the point that the fantasy elements took over from the realistic elements (dwarves skiing on falling bridges, hanging onto Gandalf's staff, etc.) in these films. This is consistent with the story in another way: Bilbo is the narator. All good stories do get embellished. We're seeing it as he's telling it. The 'big fish' type of story is common. 'Dori was dangling precariously from either Gandalf's staff or a tree limb, I'm not sure which..."

I have family stories that grow in the telling. I think Bilbo is adding the detail we see.

Old Toby
Grey Havens

Jan 23 2013, 6:34pm

Views: 889

I re-read the book several months before the film came out

so can't do post-film comparisons. But in answer to your second questions (btw I think you must be hanging out with Gollum too much....since you say you have three questions but only asks us two...LOL!):

1. Love the "Good Morning" sequence, so similar to the scene in the book
2. The appearance of the dwarves at Bilbo's door, really nicely done and so funny! (With the exception of Thorin's entrance, which was, IMO far superior to the book)
3. The entire sequence of the dwarves pillaging Bilbo's pantry and Bilbo's flustering and exasperation...thanks largely to Martiin Freeman's performance.
4. The dwarves' singing of both the songs, especially the Misty Mountains one, which exceeded my expectations. I've always loved the Misty Mountains song in the book, and hearing it brought to life was amazing. Not what I had imagined it to be, which was lighter and more cheerful, but the way it was presented in the film was so far superior to what I had imagined, I applaud this rendition! (And Thorin's singing of it was a goose-bump moment for me)
5. The Trolls were great, and as embellished as the scene was, I thought it was spot on...just the right mix of danger and humor.
6. The entire Riddles in the Dark sequence. I was most looking forward to seeing this particular scene, and thought Freeman and Serkis did a spectacular job of it. Couldn't have asked for anything better, IMO.
7. The rescue by the eagles was terrific...at least in 3D HFR. In the book I don't recall it being such a moving and breath-taking scenario. For me it was always, "Oh, the eagles are coming...again", but this time it really made me appreciate how great those birds are...and how BIG they are!
8. The cracking of the snail by the thrush at Erebor, although a small scene, was perfectly rendered. We see the other snail draw back into its shell, and the thrush trying to crack the snail seemed so realistic to me, it was a small but fabulous moment.

I will no doubt re-read the book before the next film comes out. I usually don't like to do that, just because I think it makes for a very biased view of the movie in its own right, but I'll read it far enough in advance so by the time the next movie comes around....I'll probably have forgotten a lot of what I've read! That's what you get for being as old and absent-minded as I am these days! On the upside, sometimes I don't remember what it is I've forgotten, so less to worry about! Wink

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)

Old Toby
Grey Havens

Jan 23 2013, 6:50pm

Views: 882

Oh also, #9

9. Bilbo's forgetting his handkerchief! It was unnecessary to the film, but just a nice nod to the book and to the fans! A geek's moment!

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)

Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator

Jan 23 2013, 6:57pm

Views: 884

And, I suspect,

to write with ithildin as well. You'd need to rest parchment onto something, and I guess writing while the ithildin is illuminated makes it easier to see what you're doing.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.

Ataahua's stories

Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator

Jan 23 2013, 6:59pm

Views: 875

'Hair' you go:

A previous thread on Thorin's hair. And welcome to TORN! :)

The Prancing Pony
Rivendell

Jan 23 2013, 7:48pm

Views: 853

I agree

1) Yes, I am currently re-reading the book and I must say that the movie influenced my perception of it greatly. I loved it before, but as you said, it is an even richer experience now. I've just finished "Out of the frying pan into the fire", so it is a perfect moment to just hold in a moment and reflect.

2) I think the good morning conversation in the movie has been directly taken from the book and when I read it, I saw it exactly that way. Also, I read the whole misty mountains song in the same melody as in the films. One of my favourite little details from the book is actually Bilbo forgetting his pocket-handkerchief (as a matter of fact, I never leave home without one, I would be utterly lost, so I think I always sympathised with Bilbo here). But I never expected they would include this in the movie. Riddles in the dark was really creepy when I read it (much more than before AUJ).

Another thing is that I was little surprised how quick I came from the very beginning to where I stopped now. It is almost as if I skipped some important part.

On another note, I am really glad now that the ponies in the movie ran away after the troll scene, whereas in the book the poor ponies may be able to see Rivendell, but are eaten by the goblins Frown

. That always made me sad (especially because the other ponies later on are eaten by Smaug, so no luck for dwarven ponies), I am really glad they solved this.

All in all, AUJ has really made me care for the dwarves, who I never really cared about in the book before because they seemd so greedy and always find something to be grumpy about. However, I now really care for all of them, even those who did not say much or nothing at all. What struck me was how nicely Dori was taken from the pages onto the screen. Though we do not know much about him in the book, he is described as a very decent fellow. That is something would normally not mind much, but knowing how very decent he is in the movie, I now have quite a different picture of him.

Oh, and another thing, as you said you don't mind, I saw AUJ two days ago and I found myself continually distracted by Thorin's hair (counting the braids) because you talked so much about it. And you are right, it does seem to have a life of it's own.

"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."

MistyMountain
Lorien

Jan 23 2013, 9:03pm

Views: 869

Unless they used a body double...

you can see A LOT more of Mr. Armitage in MI-5 Season 8, Episode 4.

Please, Ro, be sitting when watching as you may get faint Blush

bborchar
Rohan

Jan 23 2013, 9:07pm

Views: 828

Oh, I know...

I've watched some MI-5...but I'm never averse to another peek ;)

imin
Valinor

Jan 23 2013, 9:20pm

Views: 803

answers from me :)

In Reply To

[Have you gone back to re-read The Hobbit since you first saw the movie? If so, has your appreciation of the book changed at all?
2. Have you been particularly struck by any little details in the book (or other source material) that you think were nicely depicted in the movie?

(Please note well that I’m not saying following or not following the book is good or bad or otherwise! And I’m not starting this thread to get into yet another debate about the merits of such!)

I read it just prior to watching the film, normally i read it every year over the christmas break. It has not really impacted how i view the book to be honest, i still imagine my dwarves as dwarves Tongue

and its been there for many years now - getting on for two decades so its basically set, though i cant help but have the misty mountain song in the tune that it was in the film, was brilliant.

2. Elrond was particularly well acted this time around, better than LOTR. again the dwarves singing, good morning scene, gollum looked good, the general feel for the bag end stuff.

julia0925
The Shire

Jan 23 2013, 9:20pm

Views: 794

Thanks!

Have to go read about Thorin's hair now...

-----
Lotr: You know it's been a bad day when even the elf is smudged.
TH: when the going gets tough, the tough call the eagles.

Tintallë
Gondor

Jan 23 2013, 9:34pm

Views: 804

I have skimmed the book since seeing the movie

and I love the bits that were lifted directly from the book, especially the opening interchange between Bilbo and Gandalf and "Confusticate and bebother these dwarves!" -- straight from the book to the screen! Oh, and the where did you go - to look ahead - what brought you back - looking behind exchange between Thorin and Gandalf post- troll-to-stone.

As for the dwarves, I love the movie dwarves far more than I ever liked those in the book with their colorful "best party hoods." I'm please to find that Thorin is not an "arrogant" little dwarf who plays a golden harp and wears a sky-blue hood with a silver tassel. I'm very invested in the movie dwarves; in fact, I am going back to the movie over and over again (nothing like gramma, but tonight will be #7) precisely because I love them.

As for Thorin, he had me at "Gandalf. . . " but he is truly swoonworthy in Rivendell when asks Elrond "Can you read it?" THAT VOICE. Guh.

What were the questions again? I seem to have become distracted. . .

Tonight will be the first time in IMAX 3D, with HFR no less. I'll either love it even more or be sick.

FlyingSerkis
Rivendell

Jan 23 2013, 9:43pm

Views: 785

Is MI-5 the American title for Spooks?//

Then Manwë and Yavanna parted for that time, and Yavanna returned to Aulë; and he was in his smithy, pouring molten metal into a mould. 'Eru is bountiful,' she said. 'Now let thy children beware! For there shall walk a power in the forests whose wrath they will arouse at their peril.'

'Nonetheless they will have need of wood,' said Aulë, and he went on with his smith-work.

MistyMountain
Lorien

Jan 23 2013, 10:00pm

Views: 768

Yes //

Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 23 2013, 10:04pm

Views: 576

Yes, Spooks is MI-5 in the U.S.

The title Spooks would not translate well here.

Yva
Lorien

Jan 23 2013, 10:44pm

Views: 601

It will be a sad day

when there are no more threads about Thorin's hair. I certainly hope it can be prevented.

1. Kind of. I purchased the Annotated Hobbit very recently (a great decision, thanks to the posters here for pointing me in that direction, I have never been a massive fan of the book, but the Annotated Hobbit is actually a great reading experience) and now I'm rereading parts of the book in random order, getting sidetracked by the annotations, so it's not very effective, but it's fun and I feel "educated". I'm planning to finish before DoS, shouldn't be that hard (funny that the book suddenly seems so short...)

2.

- Yes, just yesterday the same exact scene caught my attention. Thorin humming and Bilbo falling asleep and having uncomfortable dreams (I mean, who wouldn't). The scene in the movie captures it all perfectly - the song is beautiful, yet it gives you shivers.

In Reply To

I’ve noticed: in the book, Bilbo falls asleep listening to Thorin humming “Far over the Misty Mountains cold…” – exact same lyrics as the first stanza of the song in the movie (no stanza in the poem a few pages earlier has the exact same wording). Note that Thorin is *humming*, just as all the Dwarves do in the movie before Thorin starts singing. I wondered if that line about humming was the inspiration for how the song was done in the movie. Neat.

- The dialogue between Gandalf and Thorin, "Where did you go?" "To look ahead." "And what brought you back?" "Looking behind." There are a few more lines in the book, but this part alone is just perfect, plain, simple and very Gandalf-y. Needless to say, sir Ian is awesome there. Worried, annoyed, relieved, sarcastic, kind, all at once.
(Tintalle beat me to it)

- Interesting thing about Rivendell and the whole discussion concerning the visual style. I find TH (movie) Rivendell creepy and dark, hardly the comfortable, pleasant place it's supposed to be, there's even something about the music that puts me off, the two weird elves who are seen at the beginning playing some musical instruments - and especially the flute woman who stares at the passing dwarves in a stalky way (unless she's staring at Thorin's hair??) - just seem terribly creepy and I can't explain why. That kind of atmosphere would be more fitting for Lorien, I'd say. Are we maybe seeing Rivendell through the perspective of the dwarves, rather than Bilbo's? (I know it shouldn't be the case as Rivendell is one of Bilbo's milestones in the story)

Aragalen the Green
Gondor

Jan 23 2013, 10:52pm

Views: 700

The Rivendell scene

I think the whole discomfort thing is a version of the reception the Dwarves receive in the book. No "Tra-la-la-lally", or teasing Thorin about his beard, but instead circling Elf-warriors and annoying dinner musicians. Even with Elrond's invitation, the Dwarves are uncomfortable (unfamiliar food with no meat) and you don't see them interacting with the Elves; and the rest of the Elves are probably just as uncomfortable. So you may be right, Rivendell is from the Dwarves perspective. Although Bilbo seems very enchanted nonetheless.

There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much.

(This post was edited by Aragalen the Green on Jan 23 2013, 10:54pm)

Kangi Ska
Half-elven

Jan 24 2013, 12:34am

Views: 554

MI-5 is the British Secret Service...

Just sayin'.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Jan 24 2013, 12:35am)

Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 24 2013, 12:41am

Views: 549

Right. But the original title is a loaded term here.

Sure, it means spies, but MI-5 does too, and wouldn't cause protests at PBS.

Roheryn
Tol Eressea

Jan 24 2013, 1:09am

Views: 554

LOL, MistyMountain.

I'll work on finding a copy of that (which takes some doing around here), and I'll make sure not only that I'm sitting but also that everyone else is already in bed. Cool

The only other thing I've seen RA in so far is The Vicar of Dibley, and while he's pleasant enough there, I really think it's the Thorin-hair and Thorin-voice that do it for me!

Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 24 2013, 1:37am

Views: 544

Oh, you will have to see North & South (2004)

It's a BBC costume drama miniseries, and RA is in full cravat-wearing smolder mode. Seriously, it makes his Dibley character seem like a very tall uber-wimp. If you see N&S, you will see a little bit of Thorin there. Just try to imagine the hair. It's on Netflix and Amazon Prime streaming. Go now.

But it's true--Viggo is better with Aragorn hair than without (not that he isn't talented, but, you know, hair).

bborchar
Rohan

Jan 24 2013, 2:13am

Views: 519

I really want to see N&S...

...I'm thinking of getting the dvd set. I'm about to start Sherlock, but N&S will be next on my list (I love period dramas).

Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 24 2013, 2:23am

Views: 513

The DVD set is better.

Has deleted scenes and interview with RA.

But in this vein, the first thing I ever saw RA in was Captain America, and he left no impression on me at all. So I think it really is all about the character.

ryouko
Lorien

Jan 24 2013, 2:37am

Views: 513

LOVE N&S!!

I first became a fan of RA during Robin Hood, but his portrayal of Thorton is a fave of mine!!

Xanaseb
Tol Eressea

Jan 24 2013, 2:47am

Views: 506

yeah cheers for the Arm toot kid Alassea :P :P XD //

--I'm a victim of Bifurcation--
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Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
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Súlimë
Rivendell

Jan 24 2013, 3:17am

Views: 510

Yes!

1. Yes -- I reread the book, and just like you, now I picture all the dwarves as how they are in AUJ. I found I liked the dwarves A LOT better. Now I can't wait for Thorin and Thranduil's confrontation in DOS. Even without the established enmity in the book, the scene still sizzled. I really want to see how they handle it in the movie, and I hope they keep the 'we were starving' bit in. Tongue

2. Gloin and Oin and their fire-starting skill was brilliant! I noticed that too!

Old Toby
Grey Havens

Jan 24 2013, 5:16am

Views: 523

Ack, Sherlock!

bborchar, Sherlock is my favorite television series! I assume you mean the BBC (Benedict Cumberbatch & Martin Freeman) Sherlock. All the rest are imposters, IMO! Remember there are already the first two seasons out on DVD. They will be starting to film season three in March. This series is absolutely incredible.

Okay...sorry to get off the track, but when you mentioned Sherlock, my mind went all Cumberbatched.

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)

Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator

Jan 24 2013, 7:01am

Views: 469

Oh, heehee, yes, I meant Elrond :) //

Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator

Jan 24 2013, 7:22am

Views: 465

*That's an amazing thought... you are no ordinary* admin //**

swordwhale
Tol Eressea

Jan 24 2013, 7:34am

Views: 480

book and film

I started reading the Hobbit again and got halfway through before the film came out. That copy (one of several) is illustrated by Michael Hague, and I will never be able to read it again, because the illos clash with my mental images now... no more little fat guys in party hoods!!!

You should know I always sided with the Elves (since I first read LOTR in 1978)... um, yeah, well....ah... might have to turn in my Mirkwood Party Elf membership. Yeah. And it's not just the ones who are pretty by human standards, it's all of 'em, a more colorful bunch of characters you will not find.

I get a tear every time I see Bilbo write that famous opening line... "in a hole in the ground..." I love "confusticate these Dwarves..." and "chip the dishes..." and "over Misty Mountains cold..." and "it's not a thunderstorm, it's a thunder battle!" and the invention of golf, and the pocket handkerchief and the riddles...

...the fact that the ponies get away.

Go outside and play...

Súlimë
Rivendell

Jan 24 2013, 8:02am

Views: 471

Oh yes!

In Reply To

...the fact that the ponies get away.

The ponies just keep getting eaten in the book! (I think 20 in total, at least) If I were a kid I can imagine being really upset by something like this.

Yva
Lorien

Jan 24 2013, 10:38am

Views: 487

Yes, well said

and I was worried a bit I sounded too harsh (the flute player really gives me the creeps for absolutely no apparent reason).
The way you describe the atmosphere immediately reminded me of Boromir in Lothlorien (probably more so in the movie version, as a few scenes in the movie particularly focus on him feeling tense and not being able to find peace in Lorien), even though I know the reasons for the tension are different. It's sad to think of how unwelcome the dwarves must have felt in Rivendell (knowing it will get even worse in Thranduil's halls!), which in turn makes the motif of the proud race looking to reclaim their lost homeland so much stronger. Who would have thought PJ would make us root for the dwarves so much (and so much more than in the book, yes, at least so far in AUJ, to make this post more on-topic).
I hope the EE will help us understand, from the movie perspective, why Bilbo fell in love with Rivendell.

As for Thorin and Thornton (surely there's absolutely no connection?):

Quote

I already mentioned elsewhere I had not known RA's work prior to seeing TH. I have now, completely casually of course!, checked some of his previous roles and... N&S left me speechless for several days. Not so much the other stuff. Now, the voice is undoubtedly one reason, and the other reason is, in my opinion, the eyes, the gaze, or in other words, "what a scowl that man has!" There's most definitely something of Thorin in Thornton and vice versa (try to type these two names next to each other without making a typo).

mefansmum
Rivendell

Jan 24 2013, 11:53am

Views: 453

It has been said somewhere

in all the promotional stuff, by PJ, Philippa or RA I think, (although I can't prove it unless I can find it again Crazy

), that Richard in North and South played a part in PJ and Philippa asking him to audition for Thorin.

PJ also mentions some of RA's qualities in an interview which are definitely related to his performance in NS.

Yva
Lorien

Jan 24 2013, 12:30pm

Views: 450

Ah, thanks!

Makes sense!
And the more I think about it, the more obvious (and cool) the connection seems. And of course, despite me mentionig the voice and the gaze, it goes far beyond the physical attributes. I can't analyze it well as I know next to nothing about acting, but the two guys just have the same kind of... presence. Not sure if that's the correct word.

(also, I think the thread has been successfully hijacked)

Angharad73
Rohan

Jan 24 2013, 1:41pm

Views: 439

Poor ponies!

As a matter of fact, I was just reading the chapter 'Over hill and under hill' to my daughter last night (we are reading the book together - first time round for her, but she has seen the movie), and when we got to the part where Bilbo sees the ponies disappear through the crack in the back of the cave, her immediate question was 'How do they get the ponies back then?' She was not happy to hear that the ponies don't come back but are most likely eaten, but she was comforted by the fact that in the movies there were no pones anymore at that stage.

I'm glad that in the movie the ponies didn't get eaten - well, this batch at least. We don't know yet, what will happen later, if there are more ponies. Unsure

bborchar
Rohan

Jan 24 2013, 2:10pm

Views: 435

Had fun last night...

My husband and I watched the first episode of Sherlock, and we both loved it. The interaction between Martin Freeman and Benedicto Cumberbatch is incredible.

After he went to bed (because I'm not allowed to watch more without him), I found N&S on youtube and watched the entire thing XD Loved it. Felt very much like Pride & Prejudice, except set in Victorian England. Will definitely be getting it and forcing it on my mother and sister next time I see them.

I've missed so many tv shows and movies because of my kids, lol. Time to catch up XD

Oh, now this thread has been officially hijacked ;)

(This post was edited by bborchar on Jan 24 2013, 2:11pm)

Alassëa Eruvande
Valinor

Jan 24 2013, 3:39pm

Views: 448

YYYEEEAAAHHH!!!! North and South hijacking!!

Love RA in N&S. There is definitely a presence about Thornton that very well translates to Thorin. Both must struggle to save what their fathers could not. There is a deep sense of duty in both characters. Fortunately, Thornton overcomes his "dragon-sickness" (resistance to workers' rights, etc.) and gets the girl.

Aw, heck, even their names are very similar. I keep typing "Thorin" for "Thornton". Crazy

And just to make this thread officially hijacked, we need a picture. Heart

Yva
Lorien

Jan 24 2013, 3:59pm

Views: 399

Yes, the father issues,

and the dragon-sickness vs. the money speculation. Thorin fails, Thornton wins.

Sometimes the world seems so simple :)

(Happily hijacked.)

Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 24 2013, 4:01pm

Views: 409

It's not our fault!

Favorite scene=Thorin=N&S=fan girl oblivion. I believe it's all explained anthropologically somehow. If Lee Pace brings it in DoS, I'm sure we'll go there, too. Apologies in advance.

bborchar
Rohan

Jan 24 2013, 4:23pm

Views: 821

I did really like N&S...

...the ending is a little corny, but it works :) I'm really interested in seeing Black Sky...I can't imagine what Armitage will be like with an american accent.

Arandiel
Grey Havens

Jan 24 2013, 6:03pm

Views: 806

And who knows? Maybe having the extra light from the table

would help those of 'a certain age' read those runes more easily...

Walk to Rivendell: There and Back Again Challenge - traveling through Middle Earth with thirteen rowdy Dwarves, one grumpy Wizard, and a beleaguered Hobbit

Join us, Thursdays on Main!

swordwhale
Tol Eressea

Jan 24 2013, 6:08pm

Views: 806

....

In Reply To

would help those of 'a certain age' read those runes more easily...

Go outside and play...

Arandiel
Grey Havens

Jan 24 2013, 6:18pm

Views: 821

The Dwarves' music

in Bag End, the shift in mood between "Blunt the knives" and "Far over the Misty Mountains", is so well-drawn, musically, in the movie. It really brings the shift in the book to life.

I also appreciate the presentation of movie-Thranduil. I've never thought of him as 'nice' or 'kind' in my readings of TH, and it's going to be interesting watching how his character plays out in the movies.

Walk to Rivendell: There and Back Again Challenge - traveling through Middle Earth with thirteen rowdy Dwarves, one grumpy Wizard, and a beleaguered Hobbit

Join us, Thursdays on Main!

Aragalen the Green
Gondor

Jan 24 2013, 6:36pm

Views: 883

The flute player

gave me the creeps too Tongue

She seemed like she was seriously trying to annoy the Dwarves rather than entertain them.

Tintallë
Gondor

Jan 24 2013, 7:00pm

Views: 804

Correction: "Can you read them?"

The printed words are so inadequate.

That deep, deliberate, gorgeous voice. And what an effort it must have taken Thorin to ask that of Elrond. . .

The Prancing Pony
Rivendell

Jan 24 2013, 7:11pm

Views: 812

Dwarf teasing

Maybe that was the real reason why Oin stuffed that cloth into his ear-trumpet Wink

"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."

MistyMountain
Lorien

Jan 24 2013, 8:38pm

Views: 788

Lucas North

After watching EVERY episode of MI-5 with RA in it, I am even more convinced that he is perfect for the role of Thorin.
His character, Lucas North, has a similar arc. A rise then a fall from grace that is heart-breaking to witness. He had me experiencing such a range of emotions towards the end of MI-5 that it makes me dread the final film.

Arandiel
Grey Havens

Jan 24 2013, 9:54pm

Views: 782

Oh, and Elrond and Gandalf

At first, I found TH-movie-Elrond a bit too jolly. Now, it occurs to me that his move in the direction of 'Tralalally" is consistent with the book. Who knows, maybe dealing with a teenaged Aragorn soured his mood for LOTR...

And a crossover connection with LOTR was Gandalf telling Bilbo that "Home is behind you; the world ahead." It was cool to have that reference not only to one of Bilbo's poems, but to the LOTR movies as well.

Walk to Rivendell: There and Back Again Challenge - traveling through Middle Earth with thirteen rowdy Dwarves, one grumpy Wizard, and a beleaguered Hobbit

Join us, Thursdays on Main!

Roheryn
Tol Eressea

Jan 25 2013, 1:07am

Views: 767

Good catch.

In Reply To

And a crossover connection with LOTR was Gandalf telling Bilbo that "Home is behind you; the world ahead." It was cool to have that reference not only to one of Bilbo's poems, but to the LOTR movies as well.

I finally noticed that reference last night (ok, it was because Mr. Ro poked me). Yes, that was a neat double-reference. I do, however, have trouble thinking of that line without thinking of Pippin singing it!

Roheryn
Tol Eressea

Jan 25 2013, 10:36am

Views: 743

I know it's been said before...

but I could listen to RA reading the telephone book, or tax codes, or bank statements, or anything else he chooses, all day long...provided it's in his deep Thorin-register. I'll agree with you here: "Can you read them?" might be his best-sounding line in the movie. Well, except for the singing, of course. Not quite as manly, but I also love the way he says "long gone" when he's talking about Bilbo near the end: "He is long-gone."

Brethil
Half-elven

Jan 26 2013, 12:28am

Views: 732

Describing Smaug

"...a firedrake from the North...". Right out of the Silmarillion. Perfect.

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.

Gelir
Bree

Jan 26 2013, 4:12am

Views: 715

Re: Details

Quote

1. Have you gone back to re-read The Hobbit since you first saw the movie? If so, has your appreciation of the book changed at all?

Yes, and *maybe* a little. I've always loved the book and that hasn't changed. But maybe I'm even more impressed with it from the standpoint of seeing how it inspired such a great movie, and such great attention to detail in the movie.

Also, I liked picturing the dwarves from the movie while reading the book, and of course having the songs in mind was very nice as well.

I re-read the appendix dealing with the quest too and really felt that the Thorin of the appendix is captured very well in the movie.

Quote

2. Have you been particularly struck by any little details in the book (or other source material) that you think were nicely depicted in the movie?

Yes, quite a bit! I should have written it down however, because I've probably already forgotten some of it. :) Having Oin and Gloin start the fire in the movie was a great touch - I remembered that before re-reading the book. (Also it was Gloin, not Oin, who wanted to start the fire in the cave).

Another nice little detail was pine cone scene: the dwarves cheering when Gandalf started the pine cone fires, the wolves (wargs) being afraid of fire and running off, but the goblins (orcs) not being afraid of fire.

Also, in the book Dori was carrying Bilbo as they were running from the Goblins, but he dropped him when a goblin attacked. After they escaped, he was getting the blame for losing Bilbo. This doesn't happen in the movie, but there is a little nod to the scene - Gloin says "I thought he was with Dori" and Dori, quite frustrated, says "Don't blame me!"

I was also pleased by how much of the dialog is taken from lines in the book. Even though it's not always said by the same person, it's nice that they took so much of it.

For example, the dragon thinks "Thieves! Fire! Murder!" when he realizes someone has stolen part of the treasure. In the movie, Radagast says this as he approaches the company in the woods.

Thorin says the line about the hurricane coming from the north, whereas this is in the prologue narrated by old Bilbo in the movie.

Gelir
Bree

Jan 26 2013, 4:28am

Views: 735

Re: Arandiel's and Súlimë's comments about Thranduil

Quote

Arandiel:
I also appreciate the presentation of movie-Thranduil. I've never thought of him as 'nice' or 'kind' in my readings of TH, and it's going to be interesting watching how his character plays out in the movies.

I never liked Thranduil in the book. At all. It never really affected by opinion of other elves, but I disliked Thranduil quite a bit. The prologue only gave me another reason not to like him. I too am very curious to see what they'll do with his character. I suspect he'll be likeable by the very end - whether or not I can bring myself to like him will be another story.

Quote

Súlimë:
Now I can't wait for Thorin and Thranduil's confrontation in DOS. Even without the established enmity in the book, the scene still sizzled. I really want to see how they handle it in the movie, and I hope they keep the 'we were starving' bit in.

So do I! I love that part of the book and really want to see it in the movie. However, something is going to have to be different because in the movie they know each other. Thranduil would have to be stupid not to know that the dwarves are up to. I'm sure they can find a way to make it work, and make it work well, but I do hope they keep some of what's in the book.

Gelir
Bree

Jan 26 2013, 4:49am

Views: 876

Rivendell

Quote

I think it makes sense that Bilbo loves it so much. Rivendell is beautiful; you can see it on the screen, and Bilbo clearly has never seen anything like it. He was always in search of elves as a child, and now he's finally getting to see them. Gandalf trusts them and the warmth between him and Elrond is apparent; Bilbo trusts and respects Gandalf so he trusts the elves as well.

And, the elves are very welcoming to the whole company. It's understandable that the dwarves don't feel comfortable, but I don't think the elves are trying to make them feel that way. The feed them the food that they themselves eat, and treat them as they would any honored guests. Even the flute player... I don't think she's purposely trying to annoy them; the elves probably think that's delightful dinner music and she probably plays the same way for all of their guests.

And Elrond is pretty nice to Thorin, and very welcoming to all of the dwarves.

Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 29 2013, 2:57am

Views: 680

Watch Captain America

He has one in that, very briefly. All I can say is, I hope he's been practicing.

In Reply To

...the ending is a little corny, but it works :) I'm really interested in seeing Black Sky...I can't imagine what Armitage will be like with an american accent.

bborchar
Rohan

Jan 29 2013, 3:06am

Views: 676

I have watched it...

I don't think he was supposed to have an american accent for CA, was he? I thought he was supposed to be a German (character was Heinz Kruger, I'm assuming it was a play on the name Hans Kruger). I could be completely wrong, though.

(This post was edited by bborchar on Jan 29 2013, 3:09am)

Kimtc
Rohan

Jan 29 2013, 3:12am

Views: 672

He was a German agent posing as an American State Dept. employee

In his initial lines he is using an American accent. So I guess it could be argued that his character isn't supposed to have a good American accent. This was a case of a British actor playing a German playing an American. Kind of meta.

bborchar
Rohan

Jan 29 2013, 3:15am

Views: 717

Yeah, I think we've reached zen...

Honestly, I completely missed him both times I watched it, because I didn't know who he was XD I just assumed he was a nazi-ish spy, and nothing seemed strange enough for me to notice it.