The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Main: Does their Diet. .Define their Desires?

The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Main:
Does their Diet. .Define their Desires?

Bombadil
Half-elven

Jan 14 2013, 8:49am

Views: 8692

Does their Diet. .Define their Desires?

Dwarves:
...hardcore red meat... eaters.

Elves:
... Macrobiotic vegetarians?

Hobbits:
... Organic Hippie food?

Orcs:
...eat fast food garbage. .

Gollum:
... Fresh sushi?

Unsure

Xanaseb
Tol Eressea

Jan 14 2013, 11:12am

Views: 8117

lol, though I think I have to beg to differ in terms of Hobbits

they mostly eat quite stodgy fatty ordinary british food albiet with great Shire-grown produce Tongue

Also, LOL @ Gollum.

--I'm a victim of Bifurcation--
__________________________________________

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
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(This post was edited by Xanaseb on Jan 14 2013, 11:12am)

Radagast's Lead Bunny
Rivendell

Jan 14 2013, 11:17am

Views: 8077

agree

Ents only need water

Rostron2
Gondor

Jan 14 2013, 4:41pm

Views: 7987

LOL :)

Certainly they have those diets, well, the hobbits seem to have an affinity for standard fare.

How about the wargs? Dog-like I suppose. Anyone see them munching bones?

Aragalen the Green
Gondor

Jan 14 2013, 4:43pm

Views: 7987

Sashimi :)

No rice for Gollum.

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"

Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea

Jan 14 2013, 4:59pm

Views: 8009

Macrobiotic, ok. But were the Elves vegetarians?

I don't think so, were they? In the Hobbit, for example, the elusive feasting of the Woodelves smelled of roast meats.

Were there any Elves that were depicted as vegetarians? Honest question.

A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

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Rane
Bree

Jan 14 2013, 6:37pm

Views: 7980

At Rivendell in the movie

Symbelmine
Rohan

Jan 14 2013, 6:38pm

Views: 7961

I think Bombadil responded

to the scene in Rivendell when (I can´t remember which dwarf) couldn´t find any meat on the table and Ori stared uninspired at the "green food".
My friend sitting next to me in the cinema asked me during this scene if those elves were vegetarians. I replied that Tolkien didn´t mention if they were. My friend said "So now they are".
As a veg myself I love this idea and would rather like to feast in Rivendell than in any other place of Middle Earth. But Bag End would be good too since Bilbo had that tasty looking cheese and other stuff in his hobbit hole.
Wink

(This post was edited by Symbelmine on Jan 14 2013, 6:40pm)

swordwhale
Tol Eressea

Jan 14 2013, 6:41pm

Views: 7972

bifurcation

In Reply To

they mostly eat quite stodgy fatty ordinary british food albiet with great Shire-grown produce Tongue

Also, LOL @ Gollum.

Your tagline: I'm a victim of Bifurcation...
Laugh

I had long ago made a game of memorizing the (rhyming sets) of Dwarf names... then I had to match them to the faces in the film...

Bifur was easy with his forehead bifurcated by an axe...

Go outside and play...

swordwhale
Tol Eressea

Jan 14 2013, 6:48pm

Views: 7980

Mirkwood Elves...

In Reply To

I don't think so, were they? In the Hobbit, for example, the elusive feasting of the Woodelves smelled of roast meats.

Were there any Elves that were depicted as vegetarians? Honest question.

...rode out to hunt in Bilbo's observations when he was trapped invisibly in their caves.

I live in southcentral Pennsylvania (USA), the earliest immigrants were English, then German (the local, conservative, traditional Amish still refer to Not-Amish as "English"). "PA Dutch (Deutsch)" fare is quite Dwarvish (though we are mainly farmers)... meaty, fatty, carby, po-tay-toes, chicken, eggs, well cooked green and lima beans, sausages, ham, ham, hammity ham ham, potatoes...

My mom actually said they did not have meat every day. There were certain times of the year when you butchered steer or hogs or chickens. You did not have freezers, you had smokehouses, or canned stuff (in jars).

My cousin lives in the mirky woods of northern PA working for the forest service... he keeps a crockpot going full of whatever game he's got... his freezer is full of deer (whittetail), bear (the smaller black bear) and squirrel (grey. (legally hunted, there are definite hunting laws).

Go outside and play...

swordwhale
Tol Eressea

Jan 14 2013, 6:51pm

Views: 7959

cheeeeeese

There's a ridiculously east cheese called paneer (I think that's the Indian version), my parents called something similar "cottage cheese".

I've done it from raw goat milk (I know the goats personally)... you cook it to about 200 degrees F to pasteurize it (till it froths over the surface)... pour in about two tablespoons (per quart or so) of vinegar or lemon juice... let it curdle for a moment, then strain through cheescloth, put in pan, press... the whey (liquid) can be used as soup stock.

Go outside and play...

swordwhale
Tol Eressea

Jan 14 2013, 6:54pm

Views: 7936

wargs

In Reply To

Certainly they have those diets, well, the hobbits seem to have an affinity for standard fare.

How about the wargs? Dog-like I suppose. Anyone see them munching bones?

I was thinking sort of a cross between hyenas (which are not at all in the canine predator line) and Andrewsarchus (sounds totally like: Andy Serkis)...

Andrewsarchus may have been both a predator and a scavenger, eating things like beached whales. They stood 6' tall at the shoulder (big enough to ride), and had jaws about a meter long...

Go outside and play...

Symbelmine
Rohan

Jan 14 2013, 6:58pm

Views: 7926

I know paneer.

I make it too. From cow milk. When it´s hard you can cut it and also fry. One can make many tasty dishes with it.
I also make sweets from paneer.

That big cheese Bombur took and was prepared to eat by blocks didn´t look like paneer. It rather looked like cheese they make in Holland.

(This post was edited by Symbelmine on Jan 14 2013, 7:05pm)

Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea

Jan 14 2013, 7:31pm

Views: 7951

But surely there was meat served also?

I recall that scene with the green food, but I thought maybe the meal started off with more dishes than just the green stuff.

I imagined that the meat dishes ran out quickly, (b/c all the Dwarves, understandably very hungry, finished off those platters right away). Maybe Ori, being the "youngest" (per the movie) happened to be the last one to reach the food (as often happens to the runt of the litter), leaving him nothing but the veggies.

A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

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Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea

Jan 14 2013, 7:33pm

Views: 7941

Hi Rane!

Thanks for the reply.

I posted my reply to the reply below yours who posted something similar. Please see what I wrote: http://newboards.theonering.net/...forum_view_expanded;

A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

http://newboards.theonering.net/...forum_view_expanded;

Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea

Jan 14 2013, 7:47pm

Views: 7934

I'm quite fond of that cuisine myself

I think it makes sense that the Mirkwood Elves would hunt for their food, although they would have to be careful to avoid the animals with bad-tasting meat I suppose. Perhaps some Elvish magic would help in that respect, especially if the animals that tasted bad were made that way as a result of the Necromancer's witchcraft.

Now, perhaps other Elves, such as Rivendell or old Eregion, might have preferred more greens in their diet? Don't know. The movie scene in Rivendell suggested possible vegetarianism as some suggested in this thread, though I thought maybe the green stuff was just one type of food that was offered, and poor Ori got stuck with it. after the other stuff ran out too quickly.

I've visited that area of PA and ate at the Plain and Fancy restaurant (perhaps you've eaten there?) and enjoyed it immensely. Very hearty and comforting.

BTW I imagine Hobbit / Shire food might be somewhat like that, in terms of the meats and carbs, except much more English.

A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

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Symbelmine
Rohan

Jan 14 2013, 7:57pm

Views: 7939

Apparently it was´t.

Ori was asking for chips, not the meat. It was the other dwarf. And Dwalin was throwing the salad searching for something that would be closer to his dwarf taste. I think that was the point of this funny scenes that they got something they weren´t used to and didn´t get what they liked and expected. I also think it was the intention to show the difference between Rivendell elves and dwarves. In this case in their eating habits, their taste for food and in other scene also for music. Remember Oin when elves played music. He didn´t like it.

Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea

Jan 14 2013, 8:22pm

Views: 7916

That does make sense. With a question, and a little idea >:-)

I do seem to recall that now that you remind me. Thanks Symbelmine :-)

OK so let's say Rivendell Elves are vegetarians. Here's my question: I wonder why they in particular would be vegetarians, within the context of PJ's adaptation. I don't recall Tolkien describing Rivendell Elves as such. And we know that PJ's Rivendell Elves are capable of hunting. Plus, Mirkwood Elves are not vegetarians. So what accounts for Rivendell's choice to abstain from meats?

And here's an alternate idea: what if the Rivendell Elves aren't really vegetarians, but chose to serve the Dwarves vegetarian meal anyway, just as a little joke? (In lieu of teasing them by way of the Tra la la lally song, perhaps?)

I think that would be pretty funny! Laugh

A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

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Bombadil
Half-elven

Jan 14 2013, 8:46pm

Views: 7931

Wizard fare?

Gandalf: survives by
Fastin since he is pilgriming?... On...the road all the time
Fasting on
old Toby and red wine. .
Does he stash LembasBread under his Hat?
( with his Mithral?.. jock strap)

...but but Radagast HAS to be a vegetarian
Since he loves his little animals too much to eat any of
THEM?¿

Saruman enjoys the infinite variety based on his larder
Merry and Pippin find.

Uruki are Cannibals.

(Bywater.. What's with
All the apples?)
Bomby

Symbelmine
Rohan

Jan 14 2013, 9:00pm

Views: 7912

Not sure about your idea.

It didn´t seem to me as a joke by Rivendell elves. I think they had no idea dwarves wouldn´t like the food.
I rahter see it as PJ´s joke than elves´.

"So what accounts for Rivendell's choice to abstain from meats?" Maybe compassion with animals, spirituality, goodness....whatever.

Escapist
Gondor

Jan 14 2013, 9:28pm

Views: 7908

Perhaps it was a seasonal holiday / fast (dieting of some kind?)

or maybe the first course was a salad and meats came later ...

or it could be that the elves read some books about the meat industry of middle earth and/or decided it would help them to be better and healthier elves ...

Radagast's Lead Bunny
Rivendell

Jan 14 2013, 11:02pm

Views: 7884

Food

So Dwarves got most of their food from trade with Humans I suppose.

But what about the elves ? Do they have some form of agriculture ? At least in order to produce lembas they need cereals

dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator

Jan 14 2013, 11:28pm

Views: 7874

They probably live off the land.

"As with most mythical creatures who live in enchanted forests with no visible means of support, the elves ate rather frugally, and Frito was a little disappointed to find heaped on his plate a small mound of ground nuts, bark, and dirt. Nevertheless, like all boggies, he was capable of eating anything he could Indian-wrestle down his throat and rather preferred dishes that didn't struggle too much, since even a half-cooked mouse can usually beat a boggie two falls out of three."

(from "Bored of the Rings", of course! Angelic

)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

Aragalen the Green
Gondor

Jan 14 2013, 11:51pm

Views: 7887

Hehe...

Truly a classic Heart

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"

(This post was edited by Aragalen the Green on Jan 14 2013, 11:51pm)

Lissuin
Valinor

Jan 15 2013, 12:51am

Views: 7887

wargs

Quote

How about the wargs? Dog-like I suppose. Anyone see them munching bones?

It's off camera, but I think Azog throws the wargs "a bone" when his scout comes back with an unsatisfactory report.

Bombadil
Half-elven

Jan 15 2013, 1:59am

Views: 4650

Saruman "spilled the beans"...on Radagast!

Shrooms..shrooms... and more shrooms....
Makes Radagast a real
"Fun-guy"

Shrooms in the morning,
Shro!oms at night...
Givezzz..you "Second Sightt"
Let's face it...Raddy is an old hippie!

Just like your bomby..
... an " ancient old hippie from Boulder¨

Bombadil
Half-elven

Jan 16 2013, 7:19pm

Views: 4630

Rivendell..with all the water around must have

some kind of aqua culture?
So they do a lot of fishing... maybe flooded rice patties further down stream?
How about this?
Aqua farmed mussles,oysters,shimp, crawfish?
imported from the Bay of Lune,
Which is closer than the Bay of Belfalas..
They must have fruit orchards vegetable gardens even a winery growing grapes. I'd love to taste some vintage Rivendale wine!

Bomby is convinced they are macrobiotic since the term means in Greek
large life or long life
... Bingo! !!..no wonder they live so long?

(This post was edited by Bombadil on Jan 16 2013, 7:22pm)

weaver
Half-elven

Jan 16 2013, 8:19pm

Views: 4611

speaking as an elf who has dined with dwarves...

as in, I'm a mom of three sons...that whole dinner at Rivendell scene looks awfully like a lot of dinners at my house! And some of Ori's lines about hating green things and asking for chips are pretty much direct quotes!

More seriously, I though the different food choices of the elves and dwarves worked as a good visual clue to show, rather than tell us, that the characters come from different cultures with different preferences and values.

Weaver

Gwenhwyfar
The Shire

Jan 17 2013, 2:10am

Views: 4620

I agree!

My first thought on that scene was that the "green food" was bestowed in full awareness of how much the dwarves would appreciate it! Wink

I also believe that Elrond issued the dinner invitation in a language he knew the dwarves wouldn't understand for the purpose of watching them react and that the elvish musicians were playing at their grumpy guests in full knowledge of their power to annoy!

So, as I see it, we the audience were spared all the tra lil lollies but the dwarves got to receive the same effect anyway. It doesn't indicate one way or the other (to me) about the movie Elves' dietary preferences; they could very well have been roasting a hog out back and sending it up to a secondary dining room for themselves while conveniently forgetting to mention this to the dwarves.

Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea

Jan 17 2013, 5:18am

Views: 4607

Thanks! and great point about Elrond!

Glad I'm not the only one, thanks for agreeing! And, great point point you made about Elrond's choice to speak his dinner invitation in Elvish! There's no other reason for doing that except to provoke a reaction as you said. And also a great point you made about all that live Elvish music! Laugh

.

It all fits...those RIvendell Elves have a wicked sense of humor Laugh

. Just like in the book....without the silly singing, like you said.

Now Beorn, there's somebody who ought to be portrayed as a vegetarian, perhaps even vegan (Radagast ought to be as well).

A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

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Gwenhwyfar
The Shire

Jan 17 2013, 5:42am

Views: 4632

You're welcome!

Quote

Now Beorn, there's somebody who ought to be portrayed as a vegetarian, perhaps even vegan (Radagast ought to be as well).

Most certainly! Just imagine what either of those two would do to an offending dinner-guest! I'm reminded of the first time I saw the scene in FOTR in which Sam begs Gandalf "don't turn me into anything unnatural" and the camera immediately cuts to Gandalf and Frodo setting off with a pony. I did think for a moment that there had been a major narrative alteration! Shocked

Though, I don't think either Beorn or Radagast would be vegans (especially noting Beorn's bees' honey). They are good enough friends with their animals that it would be a symbiotic relationship, so I don't think either would worry that they were exploiting the animals by collecting milk, eggs, etc.

Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea

Jan 17 2013, 2:01pm

Views: 4580

Right, the beehives.

I had forgotten that vegans wouldn't keep bees or use their honey. You're quite right.

Plus, Beorn will probably need to wear clothes from animal products?(we'll see).

Radagast , though unlikely, might still be vegan possibly, no? Maybe he and Beorn could engage in a vegetarian versus veganism debate in one of the upcoming movies? (jk)

A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

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Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea

Jan 17 2013, 2:21pm

Views: 4589

Elrond's vast knowledge

Gwenhwyfar makes point below about Elrond. Why did he choose to speak in Elvish in inviting the Dwarves to dinner , when Westron would have sufficed? Also we know Elrond knows Khuzdul (Moon letters) and could have chosen that instead. What would the reason be other than to be playful and to provoke a reaction?

Similarly, as he knows about, and is specially equipped to read, Moon letters, plus he said he knew Thror, also he used to live in Eregion and would have known Dwarves of Moria directly if not personally, it's at least a safe guess that Elrond must have known about Dwarvish preference for meats, no?

A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

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Eowyn3
Rivendell

Jan 17 2013, 2:54pm

Views: 4803

Elves vegetarians?

You got a point there. In the Hobbit, Tolkien talks about the Mirkwood Elves having meat on their feast. However, I remember reading on another Tolkien text (maybe in the History of Middle Earth somewhere) that elves don't eat meat. So maybe vegetarians but not vegans?
Anyway, I always pictured them not eating meat, maybe fish.

Symbelmine
Rohan

Jan 17 2013, 3:10pm

Views: 4569

A hog in Rivendell?

I don´t think so.
I still see this scene to show both races preferences and taste for food.
If it was meant to be joke by Elrond PJ would somehow show it in the movie.

Ruxendil_Thoorg
Tol Eressea

Jan 17 2013, 4:38pm

Views: 4594

No hog?

It's ok that you didn't see it as a joke by Elrond. Why couldn't they have hog at the feasting halls of Rivendell, though? If they wanted.

It's a valley teeming with nature. Hogs might live there, and quite well. Or the hunters could bring hogs from outside, couldn't they? Sincerely trying to understand.

A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

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Symbelmine
Rohan

Jan 17 2013, 10:40pm

Views: 4804

Lack of my English.

I thought hog is just another name for pig. Now know the difference.
Still I´m more to believe Rivendell elves didn´t eat meat. Maybe fishes.