N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Jan 14 2013, 1:47am
Views: 1513
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Ian Holm’s Odd Pronunciations? (suggestions, part 1)
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Well, it took a little longer than I hoped, but I’ve now been able to compare your transcript both to my own (which as I said, was far inferior) and to the one prepared by “skep” at Council-of-Elrond forums, and come up with a further list of suggestions/corrections. This is pretty long, so I’m breaking it into six posts. The CoE transcript shows a particularly sharp ear for cross-dialogue in noisy scenes, including the unexpected party, dwarf-roasting, stone giants, and Goblin-town sections. In my notes that follow, I credit skep’s work where it was most helpful. (You should probably acknowledge Council-of-Elrond—and TORN—in your introductory notes, as you have credited the linguistic work by the folks at Eledilion.) Most of my own suggestions have to do with Martin Freeman’s and Andy Serkis’s stuttering deliveries: was that four “no’s” or three? did he mutter “well” or “um” there? and so on. Now and again, I caught something slightly more important. Naturally I expect you will use your own judgment where my interpretation seems questionable.
And again: thanks for your great work!
First, a general comment: I think you should add a note somewhere that all translations from invented languages are given onscreen by subtitles unless otherwise noted. Put this at the top, or mention it the first time that subtitles are used.
In much of what follows, I give a block of text that appears in your transcript (as of late Saturday night), followed by “>>>” and then the same text with my suggested modifications in bold. For long blocks of text describing actions, I have elided for brevity, with gaps indicated by “[[…]]”. Sometimes I indicate that you should add a line of dialogue (or description) following (or amid) a particular passage; such notes should be self-explanatory. All my own comments are in ITALICIZED ALL CAPS. And so…
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[Bilbo:] “Thror ruled with utter surety, never doubting that his house would endure, for his line lay secure in the lives of his son and grandson. Ahhh, Frodo, Erebor; built deep within the mountain itself, the beauty of this fortress city was legend.”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “Thror ruled with utter surety, never doubting his house would endure, for his line lay secure in the lives of his son and grandson. Ahhh, Frodo, Erebor; built deep within the mountain itself, the beauty of this fortress city was legend.”
[Bilbo:] “Its wealth lay in the earth, in precious gems hewed from rock, and in great seams of gold, running like rivers through stone. The skill of the dwarves was unequaled, fashioning objects of great beauty out of diamond, emerald, ruby, and sapphire. Ever they delved deeper, down into the dark. And that is where they found it. The heart of the mountain. The Arkenstone. Thror named it the King’s Jewel. He took it as a sign, a sign that his his right to rule was divine. All would pay homage to him, even the great Elven king, Thranduil.”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “Its wealth lay in the earth, in precious gems hewed from rock, and in great seams of gold, running like rivers through stone. The skill of the dwarves was unequaled, fashioning objects of great beauty out of diamond, emerald, ruby, and sapphire. Ever they delved deep [?], down into the dark. And that is where they found it. The heart of the mountain. The Arkenstone. Thror named it the King’s Jewel. He took it as a sign, a sign that his his right to rule was divine. All would pay homage to him, even the great Elvenking, Thranduil.”
[Bilbo:] “The first they heard was a noise like a hurricane coming down from the north. The pines on the mountain creaked and cracked in the hot, dry wind.”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “The first they heard was a noise like a hurricane coming down from the north. The pines on the mountain creaked and cracked in a hot, dry wind.”
[Bilbo:] “He was a fire drake from the north. Smaug had come.”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “It was a fire drake from the north. Smaug had come.”
[The kites from earlier are suddenly burned away. The people in the town of Dale scream in fear and panic as [[…]] We only see slightly glimpses of Smaug [[…]] little girl cries as she watches her doll burn in the street.]
>>>
[The kites from earlier are suddenly burned away. The people in the town of Dale scream in fear and panic as [[…]] We only see slight glimpses of Smaug [[…]] little girl cries as she watches her doll burn in the street.]
DURING:
[Thorin and Thror, along with many other Dwarf soldiers, wait with weapons ready behind the gates of Erebor. [[…]] Smaug in front of him; tripping, he drops the Arkenstone, and it rolls into a massive pile of gold.]
ADD:
[Thorin [?]:] “Stand firm!”
[As the dwarves run away from Erebor, they see King Thranduil and his elves approaching the mountain. Thorin and the others scream to the Elves to help them, but Thranduil, astride his elk, turns away.]
>>>
[As the dwarves run away from Erebor, they see King Thranduil and his elves approaching the mountain. Thorin and the others scream to the Elves to help them, but Thranduil, astride his Irish Elk (Megaloceros), turns away.]
AFTER:
[As the dwarves run away from Erebor, they see King Thranduil and his elves approaching the mountain. [[…]] to the Elves to help them, but Thranduil, astride his Irish Elk (Megaloceros), turns away.]
ADD:
[Thorin:] “Run for your lives!” [to Thranduil:] “Help us!”
REGARDING THIS:
[Bilbo:] “Thranduil would not risk the lives of his kin against the wrath of the dragon. No help came from the elves that day, or any day since.”
IS BILBO PRONOUNCING “wrath” AS “wroth”?
[Thorin works in a city of humans as a smith; he pounds a sword with his mallet with increasing ferocity and anger]
>>>
[Thorin works in a city of men as a smith; he pounds a sword with his mallet with increasing ferocity and anger]
THE FILM USES “HUMAN” LATER, BUT UN-TOLKIENIAN WORDS SHOULD BE DISCOURAGED
[Bilbo:] “The young dwarf prince took work where he could find it, laboring in the villages of men, but always he remembered the mountain smoke beneath the moon, the trees like torches blazing bright, for he had seen dragon fire in the sky, and his city turned to ash. He never forgave, and he never forgot.”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “The young dwarf prince took work where he could find it, laboring in the villages of men, but always he remembered the mountain smoke beneath the moon, the trees like torches blazing bright, for he had seen dragon fire in the sky, and a city turned to ash, and he never forgave, and he never forgot.”
[Bilbo grabbs back the picture.]
>>>
[Bilbo grabs back the picture.]
[Bilbo:] “Good gracious! Is it today?”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “Oh! Good gracious! Is it today?”
[Bilbo:] “He wouldn’t miss a chance to light up his whiz-poppers! He’ll give us quite a show, you’ll see.”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “Ahhh. He wouldn’t miss a chance to lit up his whiz-poppers! He’ll give us quite a show, you’ll see.”
YES, THAT’S HOW HE PRONOUNCES IT
[As Bilbo runs off, the camera pans over the Shire. Bilbo sits on a bench outside his door, smoking his pipe; he blows out a large smoke rings which floats into the sky.]
>>>
[As Bilbo runs off, the camera pans over the Shire. Bilbo sits on a bench outside his door, smoking his pipe; he blows out a large smoke ring which floats into the sky.]
[Bilbo:] “An adventure? No, I don’t imagine anyone west of Bree would have much interest in adventures. Nasty, disturbing, uncomfortable things. Make you late for dinner.”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “An adventure? Now, I don’t imagine anyone west of Bree would have much interest in adventures. Nasty, disturbing, uncomfortable things. Make you late for dinner, hm, mm.”
[Bilbo gets up and checks his mailbox, grabbing some mail and sorting through it. He looks quite uncomfortable because Gandalf is still standing there. Puffing his pipe in vexation, he begins heading back inside.]
>>>
[Bilbo gets up and checks his mailbox, grabbing some mail and sorting through it, clucking to himself. He looks quite uncomfortable because Gandalf is still standing there. Puffing his pipe in vexation, he begins heading back inside.]
[Gandalf:] “To think that I should have lived to be good morning’d by Belladonna Took’s son, as if I were selling buttons at the door.”
>>>
[Gandalf:] “To think that I should have lived to be good-morninged by Belladonna Took’s son, as if I were selling buttons at the door.”
THAT IS HOW TOLKIEN SPELLS IT
[Bilbo:] “Gandalf...not Gandalf, the wandering Wizard, who made such excellent fireworks! Old Took used to have them on Midsummer’s Eve. Ha! Hmm, I had no idea you were still in business.”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “Gandalf ... not Gandalf, the wandering Wizard, who made such excellent fireworks! Old Took used to have them on Midsummer’s Eve. Ha, ha! Well. Hmm, I’d no idea you were still in business.”
[Bilbo:] “Ah, hmm...”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “Ha, ha! Hm, hmm...”
[Bilbo:] “Inform the who? What? No. No. No! Wait. We do not want any adventures here, thank you. Not today, not-. I suggest you try over the Hill or across the Water. Good morning.”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “Inform the who? What? No. No. No! Wait. We do not want any adventures here, thank you. Not today, not—mm, I suggest you try over the Hill or across the Water. Good morning.”
DURING:
[It is nighttime. In Bag End, Bilbo prepares a dinner of fish; he settles down at his table, tucks a napkin in his [[…]] He opens the door and finds a tall, bald dwarf on his doorstep. The dwarf greets him and bows slightly.]
ADD:
[Bilbo:] “Ah.”
[Bilbo:] “Uh, do we know each other?”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “D—do we know each other?”
[Bilbo:] “Is what down where?”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “I—is what down where?”
[Dwalin:] “Very good, this. Any more?”
>>>
[Dwalin:] “Mmmm. … Very good, this. Any more?”
[Bilbo:] “What? Oh - Y-yes...help yourself.”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “What? Uh, oh, yes, yes—
[Dwalin:] “Ah.”
[Bilbo:] “Help yourself.”
[Bilbo:] “It’s just that, um, I wasn’t expecting company.”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “Mmm. It’s just that, um, I wasn’t expecting company.”
[Balin:] “Oh, ha ha! Evening, brother.”
>>>
[Balin:] “Oh, ha ha! Evening, brother. Heh, heh.”
[Dwalin:] “By my beard, you are shorter and wider than last we met.”
>>>
[Dwalin:] “Oh, by my beard, you are shorter and wider than last we met.”
[Bilbo:] “Uh, excuse me; sorry, I hate to interrupt, but the thing is, I’m not entirely sure you’re in the right house.”
[Ignoring Bilbo, Dwalin and Balin have gone into Bilbo’s pantry, where they are pouring ale and examining the food. As they talk to each other, Bilbo continues his speech.]
[Bilbo:] “It’s not that I don’t like visitors; I like visitors as much as the next Hobbit, but I do like to know them before they come visiting.”
[Dwalin and Balin, not listening to Bilbo, are still rifling through his pantry. ]
[Dwalin:] “Have you eaten?
[Balin:] “Oh, that looks very nice indeed.”
[Balin picks up a lump of cheese.]
[Dwalin:] “What is this?”
[Balin:] “I don’t know, it’s supposed to be cheese. It’s gone blue.”
[Dwalin:] “It’s riddled with mold.”
[Dwalin takes the cheese and tosses it out of the pantry, past the still-speaking Bilbo.]
[Bilbo:] “The thing is...um...the thing is, I don’t know either of you, not in the slightest. I don’t mean to be blunt, but I uh, but I had to speak my mind. I’m sorry.”
[The two dwarves pause and look at Bilbo.]
[Balin:] “Apology accepted. Now fill it up, brother, don’t stint. I could eat again, if you insist.”
>>> (AND NOTE THE REARRANGEMENT OF LINES) >>>
[Bilbo:] “Uh, excuse me; sorry, I hate to interrupt, ah, but the thing is, I’m not entirely sure you’re in the right house.”
[Ignoring Bilbo, Dwalin and Balin have gone into Bilbo’s pantry, where they are pouring ale and examining the food. As they talk to each other, Bilbo continues his speech.]
[Dwalin:] “Have you eaten?”
[Bilbo:] “It’s not that I don’t like visitors; I—I like visitors as much as the next Hobbit, but I do like to know them before they come visiting.”
[Dwalin and Balin, not listening to Bilbo, are still rifling through his pantry. ]
[Balin:] “Ah, that looks very nice indeed.”
[Dwalin:] [indistinguishable]
[Balin picks up a lump of cheese.]
[Dwalin:] “What’s this?”
[Balin:] “I don’t know, [indistinguishable] cheese. It’s gone blue.”
[Bilbo:] “The thing is, um—”
[Balin:] “It’s gone blue.”
[Dwalin:] “It’s riddled with mold.”
[Dwalin takes the cheese and tosses it out of the pantry, past the still-speaking Bilbo.]
[Bilbo:] “The thing is, um, I, I don’t know either of you, not in the slightest. I don’t mean to be blunt, but I uh, but I had to speak my mind. I’m sorry.”
[Balin:] [indistinguishable]
[The two dwarves pause and look at Bilbo.]
[Balin:] “Hm. Apology accepted.”
[Bilbo:] “Mm!”
[Balin:] “Ah, now fill it up, brother, don’t stint. I could eat again, if you insist.”
[Bilbo:] “Can-? Nothing’s been cancelled.”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “Can—? No—nothing’s been cancelled.”
[Fili:] “Careful with these, we just had them sharpened.”
>>>
[Fili:] “Careful with these, we just had ’em sharpened.”
[Kili:] “It’s nice, this place. Did you do it yourself?”
>>>
[Kili:] “It’s nice, this place. D’you do it yourself?”
[Bilbo:] “No, it’s been in the family for years. That’s my mother’s glory box, can you please not do that?!”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “Ah, no, it’s been in the family for years. That’s my mother’s glory box, can you please not do that?!”
[Kili:] “Ha! Mister Dwalin.”
>>>
[Kili:] “Mister Dwalin.”
[The dwarves laugh.]
[Balin:] “Let’s shove this into the hall, otherwise we’ll never get everyone in.”
>>>
[Balin:] “Let’s shove this in the hallway, otherwise we’ll never get everyone in.”
[Bilbo:] “Everyone? How many more are there?”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “Ev—everyone? How many more are there?”
[Fili or Kili:] “Where do you want this?”
REGARDING:
[Bilbo:] “Oh no. No, no! There’s nobody home. Go away, and bother somebody else. There’s far too many dwarves in my dining room as it is. If- if- If this is some clotterd’s idea of a joke, ha ha, I can only say, it is in very poor taste.”
ARE YOU SURE ABOUT “clotterd’s”? I THOUGHT IT WAS “blockhead’s”.
[Bilbo opens the door, and an entire heap of dwarves, eight to be exact, fall in. Struggling to get up, they grumble and yell at each other. Gandalf is standing behind them.]
>>>
[Bilbo opens the door, and an entire heap of dwarves, eight to be exact, fall in. Struggling to get up, they grumble and yell at each other, saying “Get off!” Gandalf is standing behind them.]
[Bilbo:] “Those are my- Excuse me! Put that back. Put that back! Not the jam, please! ...Excuse me.”
>>>
[Bilbo:] “Those are my plates [?]—Excuse me! Not my wine. Put that back. Put that back! Not the jam, please! ... Excuse me.”
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(This post was edited by N.E. Brigand on Jan 14 2013, 1:48am)
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