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A few more Ro-thoughts-and-observations



Roheryn
Tol Eressea

Jan 4 2013, 8:12am


Views: 3922
A few more Ro-thoughts-and-observations

Just got back from viewing #5 (thanks, Starling!) and, whaddyaknow, there’s still heaps of things I hadn’t noticed yet! I figure I need at least another five viewings to make sure I’ve caught everything. Cool So here's my latest round of thoughts and observations:


Several children in Dale are riding on a small merry-go-round.

Thorin’s receding hairline: In Erebor, the young princely Thorin has a fairly low hairline – straight across his forehead. In the few seconds where we see him forging something in exile, he’s starting to have a wee bit of a widow’s peak. In the Battle of Azanulbizar, the widow’s peak is a little more pronounced, and then of course during the non-flashback parts of AUJ he’s got quite a pronounced widow’s peak. Nice detail to show the passage of time.

On Bilbo’s desk at one point where he’s just finished writing something and stands up, we get a quick view of some parchment with writing on it. I only had time to read the first line, and it was “There was a merry messenger…”. This is the first line of Tolkien’s poem called Errantry, which was the precursor to what became known as the Lay of Earendil in LOTR.

Bilbo correctly responds to Dwalin’s greeting of “At your service!”. With each subsequent answering of the door, however, the first sound he makes when he opens the door and sees another Dwarf or Dwarves is what I can only describe as a strangled squeak. He never remembers his manners after that!

Once the whole throng is assembled in Bag End, the raucous Dwarves start getting ready for their big feast/party – they actually start rearranging Bilbo’s furniture (his dining table in particular) to make it so they all have a place to sit.

As those preparations are going on, Fili and Kili take charge of getting the barrel of ale. In the background at one point, we see Kili standing at the barrel and Fili bent down at one end of it – it looks like he’s drinking straight out of the tap.

Thorin’s first words when he makes his kingly entrance into Bag End are “Gandalf! I thought you said this place was easy to find!” And then something about he took a wrong turn twice. No wonder he needs a map!

Just what exactly *were* Fili and Kili doing when they were supposed to be watching the ponies? Thorin told them to “Make sure you stay with them!” – clearly he knows those two well!

I heard the ponies’ names as Daisy, Bongo, Myrtle, and Minty.

The Dwarves on the spit during the troll scene have been stripped down to their long johns. After their rescue, Bofur and Bombur can be seen helping Bifur get his trousers back on.

After the trolls turn to stone, Gandalf chides Thorin for being disdainful of Bilbo, and says to Thorin what I’ve heard every time now as “None of you had the ’nads to play for time.” I can’t help but giggle; I’m sure I’m not hearing that right!

When Elrond and the other Elves ride in at Rivendell, as the Dwarves go into their defensive huddle, Thorin leans over to Dwalin’s ear and hisses “Stay sharp!”.

In Rivendell, Thorin, Gandalf, and Elrond eat at the high table (nice touch that they eat separate from the others). One food item on their plates looks suspiciously like sushi rolls.

In Rivendell, after the Dwarves have dispensed with decorum and are busily turning Elrond’s furniture into a bonfire, there’s some silliness going on with sausages and so forth. In the background of that scene, you can see they’ve hung their laundry up to dry – looks like their long underwear suits that we saw some of them in during the Dwarves-on-a-spit scene. Someone in the background is also muttering about smelly…socks, I think it was. I bet Rivendell has never seen Dwarvish underwear hung out to dry!

Thorin can swallow his pride when he has to: despite Balin’s admonishment (“Thorin! No!”), Thorin does hand over the map to Elrond. I suspect we may see him lose this ability over the next two movies, at least until the very end; but even when he’s at his most haughty, wilful, and arrogant, we’ll still remember his softer sides.

Thorin’s oakenshield is clearly visible on his left side slung low, during the warg chase scene across the plains before Rivendell, and during the stone giants sequence. Forgot to look for it in Goblintown.

During the stone giants sequence: I tried really hard this time, but I just can’t keep track of which young prince ends up in which group. It actually looked most likely that both of them end up in the group that crashes. Regardless, I’m 98% sure that it’s “NOOOO!...KILI!” that Thorin yells (not “Fili”), and I’m SURE he moans in relief “Oh, Kili, oh…” after he sees that that group is safe. He really cares about Kili.

Okay, and it is Bombur that Fili is helping up just at the end of the above scene. I had thought it was Kili earlier, behind Bombur.

How did Thorin get Orcrist back at the end? It’s lying next to him after he’s knocked unconscious by Azog and the warg, but then it’s clearly with him while the eagle carries him off. Did the eagle pick it up too?





Joe20
Lorien


Jan 4 2013, 8:21am


Views: 1871
Nice observations there...

and BTW Gandalf says "he had the nous to pray for time."


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 4 2013, 8:24am


Views: 1830
This one has bugged me


In Reply To
How did Thorin get Orcrist back at the end? It’s lying next to him after he’s knocked unconscious by Azog and the warg, but then it’s clearly with him while the eagle carries him off. Did the eagle pick it up too


I'm on my 6th viewing, and I've come to the conclusion that Orcrist has tiny little legs and moved closer to Thorin just before the eagles came.

After Thorin is thrown from the mouth of the Warg, it's out of his reach on his right side. Yet, the eagle manages to pick him up without touching the ground, nor being close to Orcrist. The only reasonable explanation is that Orcrist got up and walked closer to Thorin. Wink

Great list! I'm going to look out for those sushi rolls next time!

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Roheryn
Tol Eressea

Jan 4 2013, 8:35am


Views: 1802
"Nous"! Of course.

That makes more sense; thanks! Smile


Starling
Half-elven


Jan 4 2013, 8:37am


Views: 1776
Speaking of the sushi rolls

I thought I saw halved hard-boiled eggs with a herb garnish on the plates as well.


Starling
Half-elven


Jan 4 2013, 8:39am


Views: 1811
I am way too scared to ask

what 'nads' are. Crazy

Did you know The Two Towers is on telly right now? Weirdly, I just watched the first half of it the other night. It's quite interesting seeing the theatrical version for the first time in many years.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jan 4 2013, 8:55am


Views: 1765
Bomby's 5th&6th viewing is Tom...Morrow

Thizz time with a NotePad..ROS.notes in hand..
Tryin' hard to Advance geeky observations.

Bomby is "Sneaky Theatre lurker"..why pay for 2.viewings
on a weakday with Theatres mostly Empty?
(Hint..Hint?)


Starling
Half-elven


Jan 4 2013, 9:03am


Views: 1738
Go Bomby!

That's the spirit! Smile


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 4 2013, 9:13am


Views: 1750
I'm due another viewing

and I definitely want to watch and see if I can see how Orcrist gets picked up. I did notice that the eagle rolled Thorin over before picking him up; maybe he gets rolled over it and it gets picked up with him that way?

Silverlode






Roheryn
Tol Eressea

Jan 4 2013, 9:14am


Views: 1763
Ha!

Slang, and short for "gonads", i.e., what Bofur says you need to have to play croquet.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jan 4 2013, 9:16am


Views: 1733
Here's how you do it!

Leave your viewing.
Pass by the concession stand.
Wander over to the next showing.
Slip in there..
Taking note of the other theater.
Pass by the concession stand to use the bathroom on the other side.
Be low profile..Bomby wears a vest under Bomby's LOTR Denim jacket.
ReLayer your Look...
Concessions are too busy RINGing up popcorn purchases to notice?
Have your own Hobbit marathon?

TB&G


Roheryn
Tol Eressea

Jan 4 2013, 9:23am


Views: 1735
I'm still trying to work out

how often I can convince the rest of my household that I'm "due" another viewing!

Yes, the eagle did roll Thorin over a bit, so maybe that helps explain the Orcrist recovery. Let us know what you conclude after the viewing you're due!


Starling
Half-elven


Jan 4 2013, 9:28am


Views: 1726
*Sticks fingers in ears* Not listening! //

 


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Jan 4 2013, 10:53am


Views: 1683
Yes, "nous" - and I believe you mean "play for time!" //

 


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort






Joe20
Lorien


Jan 4 2013, 11:40am


Views: 1672
haha, now i'm doing it

 


Elvanui
Rivendell


Jan 4 2013, 11:57am


Views: 1682
I thought it was 'nerve'

..or 'nerves'. What's nous? Does it mean brains?

Regarding Orcrist, I just put it down to big eagle = big claws, so he managed to grab Thorin and the sword at the same time.

I love your lists Roheryn!

"...under all there was a great joy: a fountain of mirth enough to set a kingdom laughing, were it to gush forth."


Starling
Half-elven


Jan 4 2013, 12:01pm


Views: 1657
Yes, it's nous

And it basically means 'brains' or 'intellect'.
I think it's of Greek origin.


RalphDamiani
Rivendell

Jan 4 2013, 12:13pm


Views: 1625
Great list! //

 


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Jan 4 2013, 1:27pm


Views: 1637
Brit slang!

nous [nau:s] n
1. (Philosophy) Metaphysics mind or reason, esp when regarded as the principle governing all things
2. Brit slang common sense; intelligence [from Greek, literally: mind]

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort






(This post was edited by Eleniel on Jan 4 2013, 1:28pm)


FlyingSerkis
Rivendell


Jan 4 2013, 1:31pm


Views: 1607
That is very cool


In Reply To
On Bilbo’s desk at one point where he’s just finished writing something and stands up, we get a quick view of some parchment with writing on it. I only had time to read the first line, and it was “There was a merry messenger…”. This is the first line of Tolkien’s poem called Errantry, which was the precursor to what became known as the Lay of Earendil in LOTR.



Elvanui
Rivendell


Jan 4 2013, 2:41pm


Views: 1577
Oh dear.

I'm a Brit, and I even slang from time to time! But I don't know this one. Thanks, both, for the clarification!

"...under all there was a great joy: a fountain of mirth enough to set a kingdom laughing, were it to gush forth."


TheSexyBeard
Lorien

Jan 4 2013, 2:48pm


Views: 1594
During the escape from Goblin town...

and the into the frying pan, Ori wields a hammer that I'm sure belongs to Dwalin who uses his axes in both of these sequences.

Yes, my username is terrible.


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Jan 4 2013, 3:00pm


Views: 1605
another observation

during the Good Morning scene you can see a Hobbit lady hanging up clothes behind Gandalf and when Bilbo runs to join the company you can see two Hobbits fishing in a small pond.

Aaaaaand just before Dwalin arrives and Bag End is shown from the outside a Hobbit with a big bottle walks by and takes a sip. He seems to be pretty drunk, probably just coming from the green dragon.


Simon
Rivendell

Jan 4 2013, 3:27pm


Views: 1545
Good observations!

"When Elrond and the other Elves ride in at Rivendell, as the Dwarves go into their defensive huddle, Thorin leans over to Dwalin�s ear and hisses �Stay sharp!�."

I love the fact that it was Gloin who charge with more aggressivity when Elrond invited the dwarves in elvish language. Gimli have the temper of his father (the scene when Gimli speak to Haldir at Lothlorien)


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 4 2013, 4:59pm


Views: 1492
It's amagical sword

The Ring abandons Gollum, so the sword like to creep back to their owners.


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Jan 4 2013, 6:08pm


Views: 546
That has to be a cameo by someone in the crew!


In Reply To
Aaaaaand just before Dwalin arrives and Bag End is shown from the outside a Hobbit with a big bottle walks by and takes a sip. He seems to be pretty drunk, probably just coming from the green dragon.


Vocalist in the semi-progressive metal band Arctic Eclipse


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Jan 4 2013, 7:14pm


Views: 558
So another legal infringement besides the Blue Wizards?

Great observations again!




Quote
I only had time to read the first line, and it was "There was a merry messenger". This is the first line of Tolkien's poem called "Errantry", which was the precursor to what became known as the "Lay of Earendil" in LOTR.


Good catch. But I don't think the filmmakers have the rights to use "Errantry".


Quote
Once the whole throng is assembled in Bag End, the raucous Dwarves start getting ready for their big feast/party--they actually start rearranging Bilbo's furniture (his dining table in particular) to make it so they all have a place to sit.


Yes. Here's what my notes have as the dialogue at that point:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
DWALIN: Fili, Kili, come one give us a hand.
KILI (or FILI?): Mr. Dwalin.
(laughter, crosstalk)
BALIN: Let's shove this in the hallway; otherwise we'll never get everyone in.
BILBO: Ev--Everyone? How many more are there?
(crosstalk)
FILI (or KILI?): Where do you want this?
(bell rings)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



Quote
Thorin's first words when he makes his kingly entrance into Bag End are "Gandalf! I thought you said this place was easy to find!" And then something about he took a wrong turn twice. No wonder he needs a map!


Right. I have that passage as:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
THORIN: Gandalf, I thought you said this place was easy to find. I lost my way twice. Wouldn't have found it at all had it not been for that mark on the door.

BILBO: Mark? There's no mark on that door. It was painted a week ago!

GANDALF: There is a mark. I put it there myself. Bilbo Baggins, allow me to introduce the leader of our company, Thorin Oakenshield.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



Quote
Thorin told them [F&K] to "Make sure you stay with them!" Clearly he knows those two well!


Was it "Make sure" or "Be sure"?



Quote
I heard the ponies' names as Daisy, Bongo, Myrtle, and Minty.


I heard "Bongo" as "Bungo".



Quote
After the trolls turn to stone, Gandalf chides Thorin for being disdainful of Bilbo, and says to Thorin what I've heard every time now as "None of you had the 'nads to play for time". I can't help but giggle; I'm sure I'm not hearing that right!


Like Evanui, I heard it as "nerves", as follows:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
THORIN: Where did you go to, if I may ask?
GANDALF: To look ahead.
THORIN: What brought you back?
GANDALF: Looking behind. Nasty business. Still, there, you're all in one piece.
THORIN: No thanks to your burglar.
GANDALF: He had the nerves to play for time. None of the rest of you thought of that. They must have come down from the Ettenmoors.
THORIN: Since when do mountain-trolls venture this far south?
GANDALF: Ooh, not for an age. Not since a darker power ruled these lands. They could not have moved in daylight.
THORIN: There must be a cave nearby.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
If "nerves" is "nous", I think that would be a rather un-Tolkienian word choice!


Corrections to these transcriptions would be most welcome.

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Discuss Tolkien's life and works in the Reading Room!
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.

(This post was edited by entmaiden on Jan 4 2013, 10:10pm)


Starling
Half-elven


Jan 4 2013, 7:55pm


Views: 505
That's interesting

It's a common term here in NZ.


Starling
Half-elven


Jan 4 2013, 7:57pm


Views: 512
That sipping thing annoyed me

because it looked really fake. He didn't tip his flagon back nearly enough.


Starling
Half-elven


Jan 4 2013, 8:01pm


Views: 506
It is 'nous'

I am 100% sure of this.


imin
Valinor


Jan 4 2013, 11:17pm


Views: 458
Its common in the UK to, just they didnt know it. //

 


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 4 2013, 11:55pm


Views: 451
I've never heard it before.

I wonder if it's a regional thing?


ryouko
Lorien

Jan 5 2013, 12:04am


Views: 475
It's always about the details

Thanks for clarifying Bifur getting his trouser pulled up. We had a discussion on that in another post. I'm glad that someone caught what was happening.

I'm going to have to look for the hanging clothes in Rivendell! I've missed that each time(although I've only seen this 3 times)!

There's one thing I've noticed, and like, happens when the Dwarves arrive and Rivendell and then the Elves arrive. As they huddle, you see Bofur grab Bilbo and shove him into the center so that he's protected by the Dwarves.

And I do love seeing Bilbo get more and more rattled every time the doorbell rings.

And good to see that others noticed the small changes in Thorin's hair in the different time periods. ^_^

Wonderful little touches all around! I look forward to my next viewing so that I can hunt for more tidbits!


sevilodorf
Tol Eressea


Jan 5 2013, 12:36am


Views: 449
Agree with that

Unless that jug was filled to the brim and if so it would have been too heavy to swing about like he did.

Fourth Age Adventures at the Inn of the Burping Troll http://burpingtroll.com





Starling
Half-elven


Jan 5 2013, 12:52am


Views: 423
Yes, exactly. //

 


malla
Bree

Jan 5 2013, 1:37am


Views: 426
How did Thorin get Orcrist back at the end?

answer: the magic of Hollywood. Evil this "boo boo" is the kind of thing I love finding. Mistakes are made....the eagle did not pick up Orcrist when he was picking up Thorin. After 13 viewings, I've watched that scene carefully. You see the eagle's talons scoop up Thorin....the Oakenshield, by the way, falls away at this time....and Orcrist is not seen in the eagle's talons, against Thorin or even on the ground where it had been laying at a 90 degree angle from his body. It is totally left out of the picture for several seconds. It does appear later, held against Thorins body, as the eagle is in flight.

Tenna' ento lye omenta,
Malla


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 5 2013, 10:32am


Views: 408
You can see the sword

As Thorin is lifted off the ground - not as he is grasped by the claws, it's a couple of seconds after.


Starling
Half-elven


Jan 5 2013, 10:57am


Views: 403
I think you are right

It does have little legs. Like a centipede.


malla
Bree

Jan 5 2013, 1:45pm


Views: 407
you can see the sword


In Reply To
As Thorin is lifted off the ground - not as he is grasped by the claws, it's a couple of seconds after.

Right....as I said....you don't see the eagle grab the sword....it is not in those few seconds that he scoops up Thorin.....but you see the sword as he is flying away, several seconds afterwards. The sword is lying next to Thorin before the eagle comes to get him. You never actually see the eagle scoop up the sword, or see it on the ground. But it appears later. Hence what I call a 'boo boo.'

Check out the various sites online that lists errors in films. They are fun to look at.

or check out these errors sometime.... Gandalf and Pippin are walking side by side in Denethor's castle. Gandafl's robe is clean...yet a few steps further there are large stains around the bottom of his robe, which disapear later.

or when Frodo and Sam are captured by Faramir. They are kept in a stone walled room with large wooden barrels behind them. The camera shows Faramir as he walks into the room to talk to them and when the camera goes back onto Frodo and Sam, the barrels are no longer there.

or in another series of movies....C3P0 is cleaning R2D2 after they were bought by Uncle Owen and Luke. You see him holding the rag one second, the next it is gone, and it comes and goes a few times during the scene.

see what I mean by 'boo boos' Tongue .

Tenna' ento lye omenta,
Malla


Roheryn
Tol Eressea

Jan 9 2013, 12:52am


Views: 358
Perhaps, but maybe they won't notice.


In Reply To
Great observations again! Thanks!

Quote
I only had time to read the first line, and it was "There was a merry messenger". This is the first line of Tolkien's poem called "Errantry", which was the precursor to what became known as the "Lay of Earendil" in LOTR.


Good catch. But I don't think the filmmakers have the rights to use "Errantry".
Funny that you still have the link to that old post. Smile The filmmakers may not have the rights to use "Errantry", but that line is clearly written on that piece of parchment, and there's more lines after the first one that I haven't been able to read yet -- I need a pause button! You can see it on Bilbo's desk right as Bilbo stands up as Frodo hands him the RSVPs (I think that's right). I'm impressed with your transcriptions, NEB! I knew you take good notes, but you've clearly been working hard on this!


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jan 15 2013, 12:56am


Views: 320
**I've Gathered Geeky List Info from this post :) THANKS ALL! //

 


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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 4 2013, 11:41pm


Views: 327
**PLEASE DO NOT ADD ANYMORE OBSERVATIONS FOR THE LIST TO THIS THREAD!**

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