The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Rivendell Continuity



DolGuldur
Registered User

Dec 31 2012, 12:16am


Views: 3257
Rivendell Continuity

Hello,

This is my first post having browsed this forum for some time now. I very much look forward to taking part in the discussions on here!

I have seen AUJ three times and enjoyed it more with each viewing. One issue that bothered me slightly was the fact that Rivendell appears to be completely different than when we first saw it in FOTR. I'm not referring to differences in the technology used to represent Rivendell (i.e. CGI instead of models), or the overall architectural style (which is consistent across the films). However, the physical layout of the buildings in Rivendell appear to be quite different.

I've included two pictures for comparison. Did anybody else notice this? I wonder why the filmmakers chose to depart from the established geography of Rivendell.




Perhaps I'm over-analysing the issue, but given the effort that went into maintaining continuity elsewhere in the film, I found this to be a little odd!

(This post was edited by DolGuldur on Dec 31 2012, 12:17am)


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 12:45am


Views: 2131
The builder elves were kept busty over the 60 years. //

 


ryouko
Lorien

Dec 31 2012, 12:50am


Views: 2078
Ch-ch-ch-Changes!

A lot can happen in 60 years. the town I grew up in looks VERY different now than it did just 30 years ago. No reason the think that other places wouldn't have changes. ^_^


dubulous
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 12:51am


Views: 2056
Extreme Makeover: Elf Home Edition

When just moving the couch doesn't cut it anymore after 3000 years.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 12:57am


Views: 2043
Busy, not busty!! (sorry!) //

 


Mahtion
Rivendell

Dec 31 2012, 12:57am


Views: 2045
A strange dilemma

I noticed this as well and have tried to figure out how the two layouts could have been reconciled. PJ and co said we would see Rivendell from a different entrance and areas we have not seen. This implies that both layouts are part of the same larger blueprint. I cannot see it but maybe it true if anyone has any ideas. Another likely possibility PJ and co decided to abandon the first idea and just create Rivendell from scratch. I read somewhere a poster said that the place where the Elves and Elrond host the banquet is the same chamber where the Council of Elrond occurs in FOTR. Truth be told I prefer the newer layout which seems more realistic given the expanse of the valley.


stoutfiles
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 1:00am


Views: 2051
Laziness

Of course, everyone here will continue to use humor to ignore any and all errors this movie makes, and avoid discussing issues seriously.

Anyways, nice find.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 1:04am


Views: 2089
They're not errors. If something changes it's for a reason

I don't see how you could discuss it without humour? It's funny when an environment changes between films, isn't it?? Pirate


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 1:10am


Views: 2004
Well that seriously made me laugh!


Quote
It's funny when an environment changes between films, isn't it?? Pirate


This bit anyway Laugh

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


stoutfiles
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 1:14am


Views: 1979
I suppose it is funny

When a city with tons of history is completely rebuilt in 60 years.


Mahtion
Rivendell

Dec 31 2012, 1:15am


Views: 1981
More work equates to lazy design

I don't understand how creating a new environment and art design for an existing set piece is lazy. Perhaps PJ realized going back to see the exact same area of Rivendell would be ill received since even familiar characters are chastised for being redundant and boring. Imagine how the critics would have reacted. No I think reusing exact rooms and costumes would seem far lazier at least in the meaning of the term. Also this is a serious discussion unlike seeing an imaginary mountain from an imaginary non descript location like the carrocks. That is pretty silly and doesnt deserve much response.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Dec 31 2012, 1:23am


Views: 1969
It seems laziness would result in the opposite

It seems if they were lazy there would be no change whatsoever. Note also that the pictures used for comparison aren't of the same shot (i.e. one has the bridge in it). I've seen plenty of serious discussion of flaws in the movie - which is probably why it's good to throw in a little humor every now and then.

The movies had the same creative designers: John Howe and Alan Lee. If the same shot (which would be nice for a truer comparison) really looks completely different, it would be a great question for them!


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





(This post was edited by Altaira on Dec 31 2012, 1:23am)


stoutfiles
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 1:24am


Views: 1982
You can have new rooms

Without redesigning the city. It's not like we saw all of Rivendell in LOTR, there are PLENTY of places for them to go in the city for it to feel new.

The shot of the whole city though from afar...the buildings should have remained in relatively the same place. I can understand a building or two being replaced, but this is a complete city redesign. It seems they didn't want to map the model, and decided to build their own city for fun.


stoutfiles
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 1:28am


Views: 1964
No, it's laziness

Mapping a model and making sure it's the exact same as before from different angles is harder than just making a new one with similar style.

The old Rivendell from a different angle would have had the same effect AND would have been accurate to the film it's supposed to link to. Now it's a silly continuity error that could have been easily avoided.


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Dec 31 2012, 1:34am


Views: 1948
An archaeologist's dream...

to be able to excavate Rivendell sometime in the future and note the changes. "Look here, this appears to be Late Second Age ornamentation, with some replacement early in the Third Age". "These archways scream First Age influence!" "Here now, watch where you put that trowel! You'll crumble the masonry!"

An Archaeologist in Middle-earth. Sigh...

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Dec 31 2012, 1:36am


Views: 1990
LOL!

And no, I'm not changing it. Evil Tongue

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 1:39am


Views: 2101
Here's a shot from Return of the King

Linky

I'm pretty sure this is the same angle, as it's got the bridge and the front entrance. But even it looks different from your first image. I recall reading from someone in the production that Rivendell never had a definite layout even in the LOTR trilogy.

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


shadowdog
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 1:43am


Views: 2011
Looking at the two pictures

It appears the building are in different parts of Rivendale....which would be plausible.


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Dec 31 2012, 1:58am


Views: 1936
LOL QT that cracked me up.... //

 

--I'm a victim of Bifurcation--
__________________________________________

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
__________________________________________


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Dec 31 2012, 2:06am


Views: 1930
Thanks! So that means the difference was there even in LOTR

So much for beating up the poor Hobbit movie exclusively for it. Crazy

It really would be an interesting questions for the set designers, the matte painters and the film editors.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Lightice
Lorien

Dec 31 2012, 2:07am


Views: 1926
Remember the perspective


In Reply To
Perhaps I'm over-analysing the issue, but given the effort that went into maintaining continuity elsewhere in the film, I found this to be a little odd!


As I recall, the Company approached Rivendell from an almost completely opposite direction than the Fellowship, most likely because Thorin insisted to go around the place. We see familiar buildings from a new perspective, as well as new buildings that were hidden the last time around.


stoutfiles
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 2:15am


Views: 1906
Doesn't really make it better

But I was never blaming The Hobbit for it, it's not like it mattered in the grand scheme of things. I just feel the people in charge of set design should care about accuracy a little more.

Tolkien cared a great deal about building this universe with accuracy, and I expect the staff working on the films to do the same. Would it have been so hard to map out Rivendell and then stick with the design, for better or worse?


Nevrast
Bree

Dec 31 2012, 2:24am


Views: 1887
Did that LOTR shot even appear in the film? Looks like it's from a trailer and I don't recognize it //

 


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 2:24am


Views: 1873
You're welcome :-)

I think it's actually pretty annoying that they didn't pick a design and stick to it. I don't ever think about it when I'm watching the films, but it's frustrating when I think about it afterward.

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 2:26am


Views: 1921
It's because of the color grading

It makes it look quite different. But it's actually this shot.

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


Nevrast
Bree

Dec 31 2012, 2:29am


Views: 1179
Is this shot in the TE but not EE. For some reason I don't remember it at all! //

 


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 2:36am


Views: 1167
I think it's in both. //

 

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


Joe-Mathews
Rivendell


Dec 31 2012, 2:40am


Views: 1173
(Humor)

Maybe the old and new buildings could disappear and reappear like Galadriel! :D

More likely, Elrond had to do a major redesign to Rivendell to keep Aragorn and Arwen separate. Wink

'There is some woe that lies upon you... Why will you not tell me more?'
'For that woe is past,' said Galadriel; 'and I would take what joy is here left, untroubled by memory. And maybe there is woe enough yet to come, thought still hope may seem bright.'


ceppault
Bree


Dec 31 2012, 2:42am


Views: 1164
Sounds like a great question for Comic-Con

Safe guess the crew will be in San Diego in July 2013. Wondering if that is already sold out.

Production Locations on Google Maps
The Hobbit
The Return of the King
The Two Towers
The Fellowship of the Ring


Randraug
The Shire


Dec 31 2012, 2:42am


Views: 1177
......

I just figured we were looking at Rivendell from a different angle in The Hobbit lol

"There's nothing wrong with being a loser, it just depends on how good you are at it."
~BJA~



Jaymail
Registered User

Dec 31 2012, 2:44am


Views: 1268
There has been some recognition from Weta that Rivendell does change

There are various sources (some of which I cannot recall right now - perhaps on the EE extras) that discuss the shifting details of Rivendell and that being related to the mystery of The Hidden Valley.

In designing and developing the Environment Replica, here, Daniel Falconer discusses the challenges they faced:


Quote
The miniatures used in the production of the movies have been taken apart and reconstructed more than once in the course of filming, and the use of digital matt paintings complicates things a little further. Rivendell's layout, it seems, is not necessarily entirely consistent from scene to scene. Given Elven magic played a part in its founding, that is not surprising, nor inappropriate, but it poses a challenge for us as we seek to recreate it in earthly polystone! A certain degree of compromise has had to be found in order to replicate the Elven outpost so that it most closely matches the most iconic shots in the trilogy, but there's some ambiguity involved. We've had to reason that perhaps what we see over the shoulders of the Fellowship members in some shots represents some other parts of Imladris not discernible in the wide shots?

After careful deliberation and comparing all of the different sources, including film stills, the shooting miniatures, conceptual art and after discussions with designer Alan Lee, we have settled on creating a rendering of Rivendell that reflects what we see in the establishing wide shots.


In The Hobbit: AUJ Chronicles: Art & Design, Dan Hennah goes on to say:


Quote
The exact geography of Rivendell was never explicitly defined during The Lord of the Rings, but this times around we have established an area of Rivendell quite accurately, giving sets and digital work a common grounding. We approach it from a new angle, coming down a different face of the valley, so the entrance is totally new.



Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 2:50am


Views: 1167
Aragorn & Arwen

Well it doesn't seem to have worked! Look at the following evidence!

Incriminating shot #1!
And what's this!?
Errr... Crazy

Maybe he should have invested in a bloodhound.

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 2:52am


Views: 1178
That quote from Daniel Falconer

is exactly what I was referring to. Thanks for digging it up!

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


Joe-Mathews
Rivendell


Dec 31 2012, 3:17am


Views: 1151
Can't stop the tide, but Papa Elf has to try! :D

I also think Elrond kept Narsil in shards for a reason. "As long as you are in my house, your blade stays blunt and your hilt stays in it's sheath!" Wink

"And windows! Windows and open doorways everywhere! Better yet -- arches! Nothing but arches! I want arches and elf-archers everywhere!"

'There is some woe that lies upon you... Why will you not tell me more?'
'For that woe is past,' said Galadriel; 'and I would take what joy is here left, untroubled by memory. And maybe there is woe enough yet to come, thought still hope may seem bright.'


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 3:20am


Views: 1136
Haha, no he couldn't! //

 

When you read you begin with abc, when you sing you begin with do re mi.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Dec 31 2012, 4:08am


Views: 1133
It's actually the exact same shot then

I'm getting confused about what, exactly, the concern is here. If we don't have the exact same shot for comparison (like we did here which turned out to be the same, only with different color grading), could the difference not be due to different perspectives of the set?

After all, the conceptual designers were the same (Alan Lee and John Howe). Why would they completely redesign Rivendell and, if they did, how can that be chalked up to laziness? There's got to be another explanation.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 4:22am


Views: 1105
Wait, you're confusing me.

Nevrast was asking where the original shot was from, because he didn't recognize it. It's this shot from Fellowship which is different from this shot from ROTK.

So Rivendell has never had a defined set area, as explained by Daniel Falconer in this post by Jaymail. And since it was never really defined, it doesn't really matter that it's different again in The Hobbit.

Did I straighten things out at all? Crazy

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Dec 31 2012, 4:33am


Views: 1117
Nope. We're on the same wavelength

Be afraid, be very afraid. Wink


Quote

And since it was never really defined, it doesn't really matter that it's different again in The Hobbit.


That's the point I was trying to pick up on: it's an inconsistency throughout the movies, not just in the Hobbit; which makes it a moot point for those who want to chalk it up to one more reason to dislike AUJ.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 4:37am


Views: 1111
Oh gosh!

Angelic

Yes, we're completely agreed. No need for anyone to get in a tizzy over this particular inconsistency.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Dec 31 2012, 4:45am


Views: 1113
But, you were


Quote
Of course, everyone here will continue to use humor to ignore any and all errors this movie makes, and avoid discussing issues seriously.


You were blaming The Hobbit for an inconsistency that's been prevalent throughout the movies. That's not your fault, of course, because thanks to our sleuths here, we all just found that out.


I feel for those who didn't like AUJ, I really do. But, accusing the people who liked it for not discussing things with as much seriousness as *you* think they should have isn't fair and also isn't the best way to further the 'serious' discussion you think should be happening. As I said before, there have been many serious discussions about the shortfallings of AUJ, as well as discussions about the good parts. This is how it should be on a discussion board. Those who liked the movies shouldn't get disheartened because not everyone liked it, just as those who didn't love it shouldn't despair that some people loved it and don't have the wherewithall to discuss 'serious' complaints.

We all have to live with each other, likers and dislikers, for the next 11 months. I really hope we can avoid casting blame on those who's opinions vary from our own. Otherwise it's going to be a very lo-o-o-o-ng 11 months!




Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





(This post was edited by Altaira on Dec 31 2012, 4:48am)


Starling
Half-elven


Dec 31 2012, 5:13am


Views: 1141
Oh please don't

It made my day! Sorry, Quacking Troll. Laugh


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Dec 31 2012, 6:04am


Views: 1087
are you sure

this isn't a different shot/location? i don't see the bridge in the AUJ shot, Rivendell is a pretty good size place it could be another angle/location.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty, oh will you please take me home!!


Steerpike
Bree


Dec 31 2012, 6:06am


Views: 1094
It's simple

Rivendell is big. It stretches for miles up and down the valley. There are many entrances, many bridges, many halls, towers, balconies and catwalks. Each time we see it we're seeing a different part. There's no inconsistency at all.


Nevrast
Bree

Dec 31 2012, 6:10am


Views: 1088
Decently consistent

This two shots actually looks decently consistent the more I look at it except the rounded area where people are watching the Fellowship leave seems to be completely absent from from the ROTK shot.

This shot, however is super confusing to me. I have no idea where this is supposed to be.

http://laraandthereelboy.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/frodo-at-rivendell.jpg


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Dec 31 2012, 9:16am


Views: 1082
Actually, we have a long tradition

of using humor to make the most out of any "errors" we find -- far be it from us to ignore them!

Anyone remember the car in FotR?

Or Aragorn's famous line "Legolas, get the map!" Which was utterly appropriate, given that in TTT, Legolas didn't know his East from West.

Or Aragorn's magically reappearing sword in his fight with Lurtz?

Or Eomer losing his sword when he mounts horse?

Or the piece of string on Gandalf's hand that vanishes and reappears several times in his interview with Saruman?

Or when the people reflected in the ring at the Council of Elrond are not in mirror image?

Or the right-handed vs. left-handed directions of the brooches on the Hobbit's cloaks?

Or the dead orc at Amon Hen that moves his arm?


Nothing wrong with analyzing these with humor..."It was just a bit of fun!"


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 31 2012, 10:18am


Views: 1050
I noted this back in April

Link

Smile

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DolGuldur
Registered User

Dec 31 2012, 10:45am


Views: 1013
Thank you

... for posting the link to the previous thread. I very much appreciate continuity and aesthetic consistency in films. It seems that the design of Rivendell was deliberately 'fluid' in the LOTR films. It stands to reason that this would also be the case across two trilogies.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 31 2012, 11:25am


Views: 1045
Boromir's disappearing/reappearing hand....

Pippin's disappearing/reappearing bonds, the horse that says "hi!".....yep, good times. Cool

Silverlode






DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 31 2012, 11:34am


Views: 1005
Thank you for bringing it up again!

I had completely forgotten until today. It really bugged me back in April, and it still bugs me today.

Rivendell clearly has undergone a change. I'd love to know the (design) reason for it. For the meantime, I think the Elves re-building it in the 60 year time period is a good enough explanation.

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entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 31 2012, 2:54pm


Views: 968
Once the DVDs are released

I'm sure there will be intense scene-by-scene discussions, with a mixture of serious and humourous.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Dec 31 2012, 4:01pm


Views: 696
I am not very interested in the exact

architectural layout of Rivendell, it seems a mysterious changeable place, but I do mind when they make it look so much more smaller and cramped in TH. It didnt quite feel like the same place to me. Although in FOTR the colour grading sometimes seemed to make use of a heavy orangey glow, I thought it was much more heavy in TH. Apart from the very end shot of Galadriel in the light, I didnt like the sickly pink at all.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 4:03pm


Views: 689
Really?

That shot is right after Frodo talks to Gandalf after he wakes up. It's this shot.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 4:27pm


Views: 689
i really don't get

this continuing myth about Rivendell being less "cramped" or feeling more spacious in LotR. i would agree there are times that the space feels a tad too small in AUJ, especially the dinner scene. but that's just as much an issue in LotR. the very nature of Rivendell means that the filmmakers had to approach it with a lot of set-backdrop, set-backdrop in both movies. there are still some big sets in AUJ (like when they first arrive in Rivendell or the night interior where they are talking to Elrond about the map). and the backdrops and CG models now feel more expansive to me. that first shot of Rivendell from a distance is breathtaking. really, i think if it weren't for that brief dinner scene, this would not be something anyone would be bringing up...that is the ONLY scene i can see any argument for feeling more "cramped" than a lot of the LotR Rivendell scenes. it's difficult because they wanted the dinner to be taking place overlooking vistas but then you don't get to have many mid-ground elements breaking up the disparity between the two planes. i don't think the White Council scene suffers from this because of how it was shot and it taking place in the middle of that big veranda with all the pillars--also, the varying spatial placements of the actors helped give the scene more visual depth. they definitely had a much more effective approach there, which is good, because that's a much longer and more important scene than the dinner bit (which probably would have been relegated to the EE if this had been kept two movies).

as for this specific issue with the change in architecture, it's a 60 year difference and a different perspective in the shots (or maybe even different parts of Rivendell). it doesn't bother me that there are differences but if some of you want to dislike that it's not the same, that's your right.


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 31 2012, 4:59pm


Views: 682
What do you mean by this:


In Reply To
i would agree there are times that the space feels a tad too small in AUJ, especially the dinner scene. but that's just as much an issue in LotR.


Why is it small? Crazy

Did you want a field with a table in the middle?

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(This post was edited by DanielLB on Dec 31 2012, 5:02pm)


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Dec 31 2012, 5:19pm


Views: 684
I would imagine so, with all that excercise.

Keeps the pectoralis major in shape.

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


YaznegSouth40
Rivendell

Dec 31 2012, 5:28pm


Views: 671
Perhaps...

during the 60 years, Elrond and company decided to make some renovations to Rivendale. It is done pretty much everywhere in our real world...so maybe they wanted to convey that in the film and in Rivendale. You know some other differences about Rivendale which is not cosmetic but...Elrond seemed more warrior-like still along with the inhabitants... then in the LOTR where he seemed more removed from that type of carrying on and was just a wise elf giving out sound advice. No armor as well 60 years later. Remember when Elrond said that the elves time was up and his people were leaving..maybe that shows things had changed and would not be the same.


(This post was edited by YaznegSouth40 on Dec 31 2012, 5:29pm)


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 5:37pm


Views: 669
actually, no

and i'm not sure what others would want, either, i'm just acknowledging that because Rivendell has to use a set-backdrop dynamic and they chose to have shots of the dinner where it's almost immediately the backdrop behind Elrond (there are shots like that in LotR, too, though), it does give you less visual depth. but this was the only time that was an issue for me. i guess the other option for the scene would have been to shoot Elrond with less of the backdrop behind him or with more of a close-up, but a close-up would have implied more intensity or emphasis on Elrond's words than the scene intended. if you shoot the scene where it's all set, no backdrop, then that doesn't necessarily leaven the feeling of "cramped" or whatever. no easy solutions but i think, again, they pulled it off well elsewhere and in the White Council scene, so it shows that it can be done if the scene is set up a certain way. i think the mise en scene for the dinner scene in Rivendell was just okay (and maybe the reading of the Moon Runes bit just slightly better) but was very strong for the rest of the Rivendell stuff.


Nevrast
Bree

Dec 31 2012, 5:37pm


Views: 655
Oh I know where it is in the movie

 I mean physically where in Rivendell it's supposed to be and where the stuff in the background is compared to the other shots.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 31 2012, 5:52pm


Views: 651
Oh, that I could not tell you

as I have no idea. But then, I don't have any idea where any of the "sets" fit into the Rivendell "geography."

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).

(This post was edited by Ardamírë on Dec 31 2012, 5:52pm)


Lindele
Gondor


Dec 31 2012, 6:39pm


Views: 650
while some

will continue to complain about non issues. trying to create issues that do not exist


Starling
Half-elven


Dec 31 2012, 9:43pm


Views: 656
And the magical Nazgul horse

that appears from behind the tree. I always like that one. Cool


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Dec 31 2012, 11:52pm


Views: 766
And Frodo's disappearing/reappearing nipple

when he's in bed in Rivendell, with Sam holding his hand.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Dec 31 2012, 11:54pm


Views: 618
Oooh, I forgot about the talking horse!

That scene makes me giggle every time...who'da' thunk the Nazgul would be riding Mr. Ed?


sycorax82
Rohan

Jan 1 2013, 12:58am


Views: 637
Maybe PJ could go all Lucas for the next release of LOTR?

Changing Rivendell so it matches closer to AUJ? Heck knows, there are plenty of changes (some tiny, some huge) that I would love him to make to the original trilogy. Let's list some...

- Create a new cut that includes SOME scenes from the EE but not all...(I don't like the Frodo/Bilbo 'I'm selfish...' scene and a couple of others)

- Switch Ian Holm with Martin Freeman in the Prologue

- Change Gollum's design in FOTR to match his look from TTT onwards

- Make the horse just pant instead of saying 'Hi' xD

- Re-render the Cave Troll to bring it up to AUJ standards. Also, the Balrog, if possible.

- Somehow re-integrate the Moria orcs chasing the company into Lorien.

- Have Frodo see flashes of scenes from TTT and ROTK in the Mirror of Galadriel. Also, expand his vision from Amon Hen (Peter's original plan was for him to see armies, Easterlings, Haradrim and much more)

- Paste out Aragorn's re-appearing sword in the Lurtz fight.

- Stop the dead Uruk from starting to get up as Aragorn jumps over him.

Also a special note for a change that HAS to be made to TTT - paste Karl Urban back over his riding double in that hero shot towards the end of TTT. You see the double so clearly you're wondering who this new guy is on the end!! xD


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 1 2013, 1:05am


Views: 595
Personally ....

I don't think any of these changes should be made. The ship has sailed. Just because there are new films, doesn't mean the older films should be changed.

Never do a Lucas. Tongue

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 1 2013, 1:08am


Views: 611
What is the talking horse!?//

 

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 1 2013, 1:09am


Views: 594
Well, I wouldn't have a problem with

putting Karl's flipping face on that *shudders* other person...

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 1 2013, 1:12am


Views: 615
It's in the scene

where the four hobbits are hiding under the bank from the Nazgul. The horse makes a deep vocalization that a lot of people hear as "Hi!". And once you hear it, it's hard to un-hear.

Silverlode






Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 1 2013, 1:27am


Views: 607
Oh good gracious

I'll be listening for that next time! Unimpressed

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jan 1 2013, 3:28am


Views: 599
I've never heard of this talking horse thing.

I'm putting the disc in right now!


xxxyyy
Rohan

Jan 1 2013, 3:44am


Views: 590
Thank God there is money involved... (in a positive way, this time). PJ, make those changes!

I'd love to see those changes.
In fact I won't buy any other version of LOTRHobbit until they fix all the bloopers/bad CGI/and so on. Now I'm fine with my EE DVDs.
So, if they want my money, and the money of tons of people who will "enter a store and see there's a new edition of LOTR/Hobbit available, I'm 100 per cent sure they'll make those changes.
And even if we all think of the crappy work Lucas has done with the original trilogy, I have absolutely no fear, because behind this there will be PJ, which is not Lucas.

http://energyfromthorium.com/


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jan 1 2013, 4:21am


Views: 596
Anyone who's seen Ridley Scott's Blade Runner: The Final Cut

knows that this sort of thing can be done extraordinarily well. He did a fantastic job-- erasing visible cables on the flying cars (spinners), replacing an obvious stunt double's face with the original actor"s (she still looked the same!), fixing a bad line dub (using Harrison Ford's son!), replacing the cheap looking industrial background when Roy Batty releases the dove with a much more appropriate city skyline-- it made an almost perfect movie even more so. No bizarre additions, no changing character motivations, no rampant, out-of-place CGI. Just little touches here and there to get rid of a few of the distracting bits that always took me out of the movie.

Just because George Lucas did a horrible job on the original Star Wars trilogy (and even then some of the things he did were indeed improvements), doesn't mean that anyone else can't ever do it really well.

I'm not saying that PJ should go back and drastically alter LotR (i actually think the cave troll still looks good, and the Balrog is perfect just the way he is), but i wouldn't be against going back and doing a few touch ups here and there. And maybe bring things in line with The Hobbit where necessary. In fact, in one of Eric M. Van's articles here on TOR.n, he talks about PJ going back and doing an "Ultimate Edition" once The Hobbit is done, and re-editing some of the footage, mainly the early Hobbiton/Bag End footage, into one long, cohesive story. It's a very interesting idea, and i suggest going back and reading that article.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 7:55pm


Views: 553
I would like to

 read it, how do you find it please?


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jan 1 2013, 9:51pm


Views: 545
I'll find them and post links.

It's taking a little longer to find them than i thought, but i should have them up shortly. Now that i've seen the movie, i want to re-read them too!


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jan 1 2013, 10:52pm


Views: 548
Here you go...

Here are the Eric M. Van articles i was talking about. They're called Imagining Peter Jackson's The Hobbit (written prior to AUJ's release), and they delve into how the book might translate to the screen, and how it will fit with the original trilogy. The "Ultimate Edition" is discussed in Pt. 2...

http://www.theonering.net/...the-hobbit-part-one/

http://www.theonering.net/...the-hobbit-part-two/

http://www.theonering.net/...ree/?fb_source=pubv1

And here's 4 more articles (also written before AUJ came out), this time by Thomas Monteath, discussing splitting The Hobbit into a trilogy and gleaning information from trailers and the like...

http://www.theonering.net/...of-a-hobbit-trilogy/

http://www.theonering.net/...y-predictable-break/

http://www.theonering.net/...aracter-biographies/

http://www.theonering.net/...-filling-the-blanks/

Enjoy!

P.S. Warning: Some of them are quite long!


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jan 1 2013, 11:13pm


Views: 342
thanks ever so much.

I will have a good read of these articles.
Evil