The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit: Radagast: "I had a thought, on the tip of my tongue..."

The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Radagast: "I had a thought, on the tip of my tongue..."

Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor

Dec 30 2012, 3:53pm

Views: 5297

Radagast: "I had a thought, on the tip of my tongue..."

..or words to that effect.

This, along with the guano on his head was the only bit with Radagast that I didn't think effective. What were they trying to show, that he was simply forgetful (in which case he would seem a real fool having traveled all the way to find Gandalf and then forgetting), or was it something to do with the other people around him that made him forget? If it was trying to suggest that Radagast's brief memory lapse was caused by some form of social anxiety then it could have been interesting, but this was never actually made clear and the moment was cancelled out by a stick insect.

Thoughts/comments on this moment?

Reliable Radagast rides his sled of Rhosgobel Rabbits round and round Rhovanion.

Tongue twister copyright Radagast-Aiwendil 2012.

(This post was edited by Radagast-Aiwendil on Dec 30 2012, 3:54pm)

DanielLB
Immortal

Dec 30 2012, 4:10pm

Views: 4254

It's a silly old stink insect!

I loved it. Evil

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QuackingTroll
Valinor

Dec 30 2012, 4:11pm

Views: 4201

When I saw Johnny Depp's dance in Alice in Wonderland...

It was so out of place with confusing cheesiness that I kinda stared blankly and then pretended it never happened.

TheBladeGlowsBlue
Rivendell

Dec 30 2012, 4:14pm

Views: 4135

prior to seeing the movie...

I questioned the presence of Radagast,

I stand corrected. He fitted into the movie beautifully.

Clearly, PJ has a better grasp of Middle Earth than I (or many of his critics) have given him credit for.

The man is a genius (PJ I mean, but that may also apply to Radagast/Sylvester McCoy) :)

Maegnas aen estar nin dagnir in yngyl im

irodino
Bree

Dec 30 2012, 4:53pm

Views: 4081

Maybe its showing why Radagast doesn't care for big issues

He's carrying important news but is easily distracted by a stick insect, as if to show how forgetful he is and that his priorities lie somewhere else. I didn't find the scene that bad, but some extra reaction to it from the dwarves would be nice, instead of a cut.

"The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that terrible in-between."

Azaghâl
Lorien

Dec 30 2012, 5:10pm

Views: 4098

This moment was..

Stupid and has annoyed me on all of my 3 viewings. It will forever be the single thing I hate the most about this film.
I didn't feel it added anything to the story or the character of Radagast. It was just a childish moment.

How can he forget what he travelled hundreds of miles to tell?. And where did the stick insect even come from? He didn't have any problems talking right up to that point. Does Radagast have insects insides his body all the time? That is just sick. These kinda things totally removes me from the middle earth experience.

In some cases they went too far with Radagast. Unfortunately..

*Baruk khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!*

DanielLB
Immortal

Dec 30 2012, 5:23pm

Views: 4064

If only I had seen my typo sooner .... /

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xxxyyy
Rohan

Dec 30 2012, 5:44pm

Views: 4060

Yes, that and Jar Jar. So I feared Radagast. I was wrong. PJ is not Lucas, thank God.

Every little detail perfectly fit the character. He was not out of place, he was not ridiculous, he was not cheesy.
I was pleasantly surprised how much I liked him.

http://energyfromthorium.com/

Indigo55
Registered User

Dec 30 2012, 5:44pm

Views: 4042

Radagast the Spacey

Too many 'shrooms, man. Sly

Aragalen the Green
Gondor

Dec 30 2012, 5:52pm

Views: 4003

I liked the stick insect :)

I used to raise them for my children, and have a fondness for them. My daughter even commented "look! a stick insect! how cool". I don't think I'd appreciate one in my mouth though.

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"

Finrod
Rohan

Dec 30 2012, 6:15pm

Views: 4083

300 million Americans purplexed by sticky insect

For the 300 million Amercans who know this animal only by the name of a walking stick, calling it a stick insect was a source of confusion and mystery.

…all eyes looked upon the ring; for he held it now aloft, and the green jewels gleamed there that the Noldor had devised in Valinor. For this ring was like to twin serpents, whose eyes were emeralds, and their heads met beneath a crown of golden flowers, that the one upheld and the other devoured; that was the badge of Finarﬁn and his house.
The Silmarillion, pp 150-151

while Felagund laughs beneath the trees
in Valinor and comes no more
to this grey world of tears and war.
The Lays of Beleriand, p 311

BeornBerserker
Lorien

Dec 30 2012, 6:19pm

Views: 3972

I liked it also

I liked the fact Radagast seemed very naive and simple hearted and simple minded with how he normally interacted with the world in Middle Earth but couldn't completely hide who and what he was and the hidden power and wisdom one of his order truly possessed. It felt balanced and didn't seem like an act yet blended well with the moments he showed courage and the ability for thoughtful analysis.

DanielLB
Immortal

Dec 30 2012, 6:19pm

Views: 3972

Really? / /

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Ardamírë
Valinor

Dec 30 2012, 6:20pm

Views: 3957

Haha!

Thanks for the laugh Laugh

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!

Aragalen the Green
Gondor

Dec 30 2012, 6:31pm

Views: 3958

Not all Americans...

At least where I live we've always called them stick insects or stick bugs. A walking stick is a cane Wink

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"

arithmancer
Grey Havens

Dec 30 2012, 6:32pm

Views: 3940

Make that 299,999,999...

In Reply To

For the 300 million Amercans who know this animal only by the name of a walking stick, calling it a stick insect was a source of confusion and mystery.

They showed the insect! How confusing could this be?

Indigo55
Registered User

Dec 30 2012, 6:34pm

Views: 3973

I liked Radagast

After three viewings. This movie was apparently too much for me to absorb and understand on only one viewing, maybe that's a fault, or a deliberate ploy to spur multiple viewings. Wink

Stupid Fat Hobbitses
The Shire

Dec 30 2012, 7:15pm

Views: 3933

I had a thought, on the tip of my togue...

Maybe it's just me, but I interpreted this moment as a possible nod to Guillermo del Toro and a loving reference to the stick insect from his film Pan's Labyrinth. It seems like something Pete would do. Kind of a random event otherwise...

Elutherian
Rohan

Dec 30 2012, 7:23pm

Views: 3978

I think it's good to show why Saruman doesn't like Radagast...

...the dynamic between the three Wizards is done very well.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...

Mardragon
The Shire

Dec 30 2012, 9:57pm

Views: 3861

I agree...

... although I thought Saruman's depiction a little too much on the nose. A little too close to the arrogant side he showed in Lord of the Rings. It would have been nice to see him more subtle, more likeable in the White Coucil scene.

As for Radagast, while his depiction wasn't quite what I imagined, I liked it. It would have been so easy to depict the wizards in a similar way, just with a change of clothes colouring. So individual.

I was also happy to see Radagast hold his own against a Nazgul (although I have mixed feelings on the wraith appearing that early. A bit more mystery would have been nice). Shows that despite his bumbling depiction he is still very much a being to be reckoned with.

(This post was edited by Mardragon on Dec 30 2012, 9:58pm)

JWPlatt
Grey Havens

Dec 30 2012, 10:12pm

Views: 3857

Saruman, To The Contray

Saruman's depiction and tone, to the contrary, seemed to the side of the innocent and naïve while complaining of Gandalf's meddling. i.e., why stir up trouble where it doesn't exist? I posit that it is only your knowledge of what is to come that alters your perception of Saruman's behavior.

Finrod
Rohan

Dec 30 2012, 10:15pm

Views: 3844

Yes, really!!

Yes, really. I had never heard of a so-called “stick insect” for the first 98% of my life (and yes, I counted).

This animal is just a “walking stick” to me and mine. Ask any six-year-old in America, and that is the name by which it is known.

…all eyes looked upon the ring; for he held it now aloft, and the green jewels gleamed there that the Noldor had devised in Valinor. For this ring was like to twin serpents, whose eyes were emeralds, and their heads met beneath a crown of golden flowers, that the one upheld and the other devoured; that was the badge of Finarﬁn and his house.
The Silmarillion, pp 150-151

while Felagund laughs beneath the trees
in Valinor and comes no more
to this grey world of tears and war.
The Lays of Beleriand, p 311

JWPlatt
Grey Havens

Dec 30 2012, 10:35pm

Views: 3849

Middle Earth Walking Stick

Middle Earth is not this Earth, really, so it I view any commonality of nomenclature with some suspicion. Even the word "insect" is suspect. Do insects all still have six legs on Middle Earth? We can make no assumptions. The obvious intent with this was to distance their world from our contemporary Earth, rabbits notwithstanding.

SirDennisC
Half-elven

Dec 30 2012, 11:06pm

Views: 3816

Haven't see the movie

but regarding the insect I've read many references to, I am inclined to agree with you:

Quote

but I interpreted this moment as a possible nod to Guillermo del Toro and a loving reference to the stick insect from his film Pan's Labyrinth.

As for the phrase "I had a thought, on the tip of my tongue..." it seems to me to be in keeping with the odd turns of phrase or playful language Tolkien strewed about The Hobbit...

Kendalf
Rohan

Dec 30 2012, 11:45pm

Views: 3848

As an outspoken proponent of Jackson's films, I found it embarrassing...

In Reply To

Exactly the same here, Azaghal. It was infantile, nonsensical and utterly fatuous. It's rapidly ascending my "Top Five Least Favourite Moments in Jackson's Hexalogy"...

Here's hoping there's nothing in the final two films to surpass it Crazy

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."

Oin K
Rivendell

Dec 30 2012, 11:50pm

Views: 2701

Could it have been Radagast's idea of a joke?

That's what I took from it. Yes, he acts daffy, but he's an Istari, and so no matter how convoluted his cognition might be made by his self-administration of 'woodland remedies,' his mind is still working on levels far above that of ordinary mortals.

The takeaway here is that he had this incredibly grim secret to deliver on which hinged the entire fate of Middle Earth, and yet he is still distracted and gravely concerned with the well-being of the smallest creatures therein. Gandalf knows this about him, and looks up to him in a way for this quality of his - he knows the tiny details are still important even when the big picture is so heavy and ponderous.

And he's familiar with Gandalf, and may even have been thoughtful - and polite, even - enough to open up this interaction with a light-hearted joke, before settling into dark business indeed.

I'm certainly reading more into this than I need to, but I like to think of this moment as gentle Radagast's idea of good etiquette - just like some of the greatest lecturers and CEOs will also start off a Very Important Meeting with a joke.

"The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep-breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their snouts were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a snoutless Dwarf - unless he were rhinoplasted in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have snouts from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike..." (History of Middle Earth, volume 11, The War of the Truffles, p. 205)

(This post was edited by Oin K on Dec 30 2012, 11:50pm)

SirDennisC
Half-elven

Dec 30 2012, 11:50pm

Views: 2734

Surely Galadriel on Gandalf's shoulder qualifies?//

Ref
Rivendell

Dec 30 2012, 11:52pm

Views: 2683

RE: SirDennisC

In Reply To

As for the phrase "I had a thought, on the tip of my tongue..." it seems to me to be in keeping with the odd turns of phrase or playful language Tolkien strewed about The Hobbit...

Just to say that it's a very common phrase here in England, used by young and old.

Viewers of a nervous disposition may be interested to know that your television is off and I am speaking to you from inside your head...

*~* Hugh Dennis, Mock the Week *~*

Icon made by the talented dark_jackal32

Arannir
Valinor

Dec 30 2012, 11:53pm

Views: 2685

Yeah...

In Reply To

but regarding the insect I've read many references to, I am inclined to agree with you:

Quote

but I interpreted this moment as a possible nod to Guillermo del Toro and a loving reference to the stick insect from his film Pan's Labyrinth.

As for the phrase "I had a thought, on the tip of my tongue..." it seems to me to be in keeping with the odd turns of phrase or playful language Tolkien strewed about The Hobbit...

For some odd reason this moment felt really Tolkien-esk to me. Am I a heretic now? :D

JWPlatt
Grey Havens

Dec 31 2012, 12:36am

Views: 2695

True, But...

In Reply To

True, but I think Jackson's more juvenile side overwhelms the knowledge of this - not respect it. If the Istari were real I think the portrayal would be insulting to all, including Radagast.

However, I loved Gandalf's in-passing line about not remembering the Blue Wizards' names in acknowledgement of Tolkien's lack of their definition.

N.E. Brigand
Half-elven

Dec 31 2012, 12:45am

Views: 2700

The Blue Wizards' names are out because

an expert advised the filmmakers that they didn't have rights to use those names.

(Or the color, for that matter, but that's probably so small a detail that there's no danger of a lawsuit.)

Your suggested alternate explanation for Gandalf's confusion is fun, thought.

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Elenorflower
Gondor

Dec 31 2012, 12:46am

Views: 2674

I thought it was ridiculous

who on earth would not notice a large and prickly live insect in their mouths? I mean it just defies all reasonable logic. He's not that stoned surely?

Kassandros
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 2:59am

Views: 2635

If one is familair with the creature, isn't "stick insect" an obvious name?

I'm an American and I grew up calling these wonderful creatures walking sticks. But I've also heard them called stick insects over the years, I think. In any case, aren't the two names so close that there'd be little chance for confusion?

all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us...

Ardamírë
Valinor

Dec 31 2012, 3:06am

Views: 2659

Oh, I thought you were joking

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!

morgul lord
Rivendell

Dec 31 2012, 3:25am

Views: 2644

Loved Radagast and the stick bug!

The bird poop, not so much.

Aragalen the Green
Gondor

Dec 31 2012, 3:31am

Views: 2639

Think of it as tree sap :)

which apparently it really is. Tongue

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"

Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator

Dec 31 2012, 4:36am

Views: 2619

It may be that it's a regional American thing.

Because I'm an American who has always (as far as I can remember) known them as "stick insects", though I have heard the term "walking stick". So I don't think this is really a universal American truth.

Silverlode

Aragalen the Green
Gondor

Dec 31 2012, 4:59am

Views: 2606

Hurrah Wikipedia

The Phasmatodea (sometimes called Phasmida or Phasmatoptera) are an order of insects, whose members are variously known as stick insects (in Europe and Australasia), walking sticks or stick-bugs (in the United States and Canada).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phasmatodea

Also, if I'm not mistaken, America includes North, Central and South America; certainly enough area for many regional variations Smile

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"

Balin88
The Shire

Dec 31 2012, 5:28am

Views: 2609

no place

I just thing radagast had no place in the film what so ever, i didnt dislike him i just thought that he played the wrong part, PJ could have taken him as a more serious wizard, take out the bird poo, the sled, and the warg chase, and add radagast, gandalf, and the dwarves fighting their way through to rivendells secret passage then you have a winner ! Why couldnt Radagasts love for all creatures be portrayed through the love of a noble horse, something that shows strength !!

(This post was edited by Balin88 on Dec 31 2012, 5:29am)

Fredeghar Wayfarer
Lorien

Dec 31 2012, 7:27am

Views: 2577

Stick insect

In Reply To

My thought exactly. A walking stick is a type of insect. Wouldn't it be obvious what a stick insect is, even if you haven't heard that variation of the name?

In any case, I wasn't a huge fan of that moment, or most of Radagast's scenes. I love Sylvester McCoy in the part but his sub-plot was one of the unnecessary bits that made the movie seem drawn out to me. I would have just included Radagast in the White Council scene and skipped all the ridiculous bunny sled/warg chase moments. But that's just me.

Arannir
Valinor

Dec 31 2012, 11:36am

Views: 2559

I...

In Reply To

The bird poop, not so much.

.... actually thought they made quite a point with this. Gandalf speaks about Radagast as this guy misunderstood by most of the rest of the world.

He is so one with nature that he simply does not mind and take it as natural. And although weird, this makes him much more faithful to the Istari's mission in some aspects compared to Saruman, who is already (despite not being totally down the Evil path) more interested in power politics and the "big picture".

CathrineB
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 12:00pm

Views: 2548

Does it really matter?

To me personally, no that part was rather odd, but does it matter? Is it really something get worked up over? I loved Radagast (and even more because I hadn't expected to) so why make a big deal out of a stick insect in his mouth? I got the feeling it was done as a joke. Stupid or not. Because people in the theater (where I was anyway) either laughed or snorted. Most seemed to like the character.

Calmandcloudless
Lorien

Dec 31 2012, 12:28pm

Views: 2542

Yes, I got the impression that it was a joke...

...as the result of Radagast's social anxiety. He's found himself in an ambiguous social situation, having encountered Gandalf with a group of threatening Dwarves. His first thought is to spill the beans to Gandalf about the Necromancer, but he thinks better of the idea just as soon as he starts to explain. He decides to stall until he can talk to Gandalf alone, and, unsure how to finish what he started saying, he pulls a silly conjuring trick to defuse the tension. I get the impression that, to some extent, he acts clownishly to show people that he isn't a threat - it's just a crude coping mechanism. Once he can talk to Gandalf privately, we see the 'real' Radagast - much more lucid than he appears to others.

So I don't believe that he really forgets what he was going to say, nor that he really even had a stick insect in his mouth in the first place. It's just a silly trick that helps illuminate one of the more awkward aspects of his personality.

Finrod
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 3:20pm

Views: 2524

*Middle Earth certainly is* Earth!**

In Reply To

This is quite wrong. Middle Earth very much is this Earth: Tolkien said so. This is not “science fiction”. This is legend. This is myth. This is our collective cultural consciousness. It is not rocket science.

One might as well say that King Arthur’s Camelot did not take place on this Earth, so we should not assume that his horses had four legs and no wings.

…all eyes looked upon the ring; for he held it now aloft, and the green jewels gleamed there that the Noldor had devised in Valinor. For this ring was like to twin serpents, whose eyes were emeralds, and their heads met beneath a crown of golden flowers, that the one upheld and the other devoured; that was the badge of Finarﬁn and his house.
The Silmarillion, pp 150-151

while Felagund laughs beneath the trees
in Valinor and comes no more
to this grey world of tears and war.
The Lays of Beleriand, p 311

Finrod
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 3:23pm

Views: 2521

Mere casuistry

In Reply To

Nope, that is The Americas. In English, the word America refers only to the United States thereof. All else is mere casuistry.

…all eyes looked upon the ring; for he held it now aloft, and the green jewels gleamed there that the Noldor had devised in Valinor. For this ring was like to twin serpents, whose eyes were emeralds, and their heads met beneath a crown of golden flowers, that the one upheld and the other devoured; that was the badge of Finarﬁn and his house.
The Silmarillion, pp 150-151

while Felagund laughs beneath the trees
in Valinor and comes no more
to this grey world of tears and war.
The Lays of Beleriand, p 311

Aragalen the Green
Gondor

Dec 31 2012, 4:58pm

Views: 2501

I do know some Canadians that would disagree,

although I can't speak for all Canadians.

I do get your point however.

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"

Magpie
Immortal

Dec 31 2012, 4:59pm

Views: 2506

You've never heard of it so that means no one else has...

..or can figure it out that 'stick' insect refers to 'walking stick' such they wouldn't be confused?

Not much of a scientific method being used here.

As someone who's lived a long life in the US and has worked with lots of people with varying skill in the English language for lots of reasons, I like to offer a counter opinion. Most of us could figure this out.

LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide

(This post was edited by Magpie on Dec 31 2012, 4:59pm)

unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 31 2012, 5:10pm

Views: 2499

i said this in another thread

but that bit is immediately preceded by a POV shot of branches whipping into Radagast's face as he rides on his bunny sled. while the stick-insect moment is clearly supposed to show a little bit about his character, in that he's "absent-minded" because he has so many different things going on inside his head, i actually think it's more of a humorous illustration of how quickly he was traveling on the bunny sled. like if you're off-roading on a 4-wheeler or motor-bike, the exhiliaration and wildness of that can leave you with a bunch of random stuff all over you and even in your mouth, nose, ears, whatever--without you really noticing it until you've had a moment to pause and take a self-inventory.

Ziggy Stardust
Gondor

Dec 31 2012, 5:44pm

Views: 2494

I didn't expect it

and then when he pulls out the stick insect I'm like "...spew! There's a bug in his mouth! lol!" I thought it fit the character fine, and was okay with it. Radagast has been described as an odd loner who prefers the company of animals, and tends to flowers and insects. An in that scene in The Fellowship of the Ring novel, when he rides to Gandalf and tells him he is wanted by Saruman, he seemed, rushed, even panicked. And Saruman described Radagast as a fool, so they needed to portray Radagast as much different to Saruman, who is more serious and has a bit of a wicked streak.

swordwhale
Tol Eressea

Dec 31 2012, 6:16pm

Views: 2503

stickbug

In Reply To

I agree, that's the best take on it yet.

There's a theme here of the animals taking refuge ON Radagast; the stick bug, the birds under his hat ("your hair looks like a bird's nest" brought to weird, hilarious life), and the mice running to take refuge in his robes.

Oh, and apparently he and Bofur shop at the same hat place...

Stick bug: related to preying mantis (or praying mantis if you prefer), while the mantis is a predator, the walking stick is an herbivore. The ones on display in our park visitor's center like pyrocantha. They can reproduce without males.

Go outside and play...

JWPlatt
Grey Havens

Dec 31 2012, 6:24pm

Views: 1056

The Moth Effect

I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but showing Gandalf talking to a different moth in the tree to call the Eagles and a living, humanoid Radagast in the same movie would seem to dispel any likelihood that Radagast becomes the Orthanc moth. It would seem Gandalf simply has a way with moths.

(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Dec 31 2012, 6:24pm)

DanielLB
Immortal

Dec 31 2012, 7:02pm

Views: 1055

He's a shapeshifter though

In Reply To

Which means he can take on any type of moth. Tongue

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JWPlatt
Grey Havens

Dec 31 2012, 7:20pm

Views: 1042

Erm

Yeah, okay Daniel, and I missed the part with the talking purse too. Tongue

Hey, weren't you going to some cold tundra somewhere, sometime? I never noticed your absence.

DanielLB
Immortal

Dec 31 2012, 7:24pm

Views: 1052

Trying to get rid of me?

In Reply To

Yeah, okay Daniel, and I missed the part with the talking purse too. Tongue

Hey, weren't you going to some cold tundra somewhere, sometime? I never noticed your absence.

I leave in 16 days time. And, weather-dependent, I'll be gone for little over a month.

I never much liked the idea of Radagast turning into the moth, although it is always fun suggesting it. I hope he leaves his staff with Gandalf, and just walks off into Mirkwood. A fitting ending, in my opinion.

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(This post was edited by DanielLB on Dec 31 2012, 7:33pm)