The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit: New Thorin Pic

The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
New Thorin Pic

Lusitano
Tol Eressea

Nov 17 2012, 6:56pm

Views: 2313

New Thorin Pic

http://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/from-kili.png

Many thanks to our dwarf Spy, Dark Jackal Wink

DanielLB
Immortal

Nov 17 2012, 7:11pm

Views: 1085

Now there's a Dwarf who eats his greens ;-) /

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Lusitano
Tol Eressea

Nov 17 2012, 7:35pm

Views: 1016

Aye

I already see the perfumme commercial with RA...

Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 17 2012, 8:43pm

Views: 938

He looks great

That's a Dwarf Lord, long beard or no.

Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator

Nov 17 2012, 8:45pm

Views: 953

Look at the detail on the leather.

Absolutely gorgeous outfit.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.

Ataahua's stories

Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 17 2012, 8:47pm

Views: 906

Agreed

Honestly, I think Ann Maskrey has outdone her predecessor here.

ShireHorse
Rohan

Nov 17 2012, 9:02pm

Views: 937

I've made it clickable

if you don't mind, Lusitano:

http://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/from-kili.png

Great pic! Thanks a lot, Lusitano and DJ. In a brief interview in Us Magazine a couple of days ago, RA said that he had a prosthetic forehead and nose which took more than two and a half hours in make-up and I think that's what gives him the dwarven look - but it's not as cartoonish as some of the others so that I can believe in him.

starlesswinter
Lorien

Nov 17 2012, 9:08pm

Views: 884

Yep

It's mostly to do with fabric choice, I think. I was never a fan of all the velvet Ngila Dickson used. Even with all the great detail in the LOTR costumes, some of them looked like Halloween costumes.

Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 17 2012, 9:09pm

Views: 889

I think the velvet had a lot to do with it

Made a number of the costumes look rather cheap, IMO.

Maskrey has an excellent eye for fabrics, I think.

Eleniel
Tol Eressea

Nov 17 2012, 9:11pm

Views: 962

Here's another picture of RA as Thorin I haven't seen before...

Was searching for a closer shot of his belt which I saw recently (but can't remember where!) - I believe it has a chunk of quartz in it - but nyway, stumbled across this shot in which Thorin looks older and more world-weary:

http://gratianads90.files.wordpress.com/...dec2111ranetcrop.jpg

"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Ż Victoria Monfort

starlesswinter
Lorien

Nov 17 2012, 9:15pm

Views: 865

That's exactly right

"Cheap" is the right word, unfortunately. I don't mean to dismiss Dickson's efforts; some of her work was great and it certainly wasn't cheap to make all those costumes. But just as much of it didn't look the greatest on camera. It actually makes Ann Maskrey's work all the more impressive that she has to take the high definition factor into consideration.

Now, here's hoping for a decent documentary on Maskrey's work for the DVD!

Lusitano
Tol Eressea

Nov 17 2012, 9:17pm

Views: 873

Not at all

thanks for that!

Really, i did not know that it took that long for his look...

No, ots more of a noble, warrior, look.. Nori is more of a dwarf of the streets, with a shady past and connections, and suspicious, bully looking hairdoo

Wink

ShireHorse
Rohan

Nov 17 2012, 9:20pm

Views: 873

I think that's an early shot, Eleniel,

whilst they were still messing around with the Thorin "look". Since then, they have made his moustache shorter since RA decided to grow his own and have made his hair darker and his nose less hooked.

The costume looks like the one from the backstage shot where he has the oakenshield on his arm and it was assumed he was shooting an Azanulbizar scene. If so, he should be looking younger, not older.

Elenorflower
Gondor

Nov 17 2012, 9:26pm

Views: 902

CHEAP???

your havin a laugh! Those velvet costumes were perfection. NO WAY did they look cheap. Really! Mad

(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Nov 17 2012, 9:27pm)

Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator

Nov 17 2012, 9:31pm

Views: 839

I think you meant to reply

to someone other than Lusitano. :D

What was it that you particularly liked about Ngila's costumes, Ef? Personally, I loved the weight of them - how they would hang off the women's shoulders and drape beautifully.

Having said that, my favourite costumes from LOTR were Boromir's and Gimli's - the details told their own stories of the men who wore them.

Lusitano
Tol Eressea

Nov 17 2012, 9:42pm

Views: 826

Barking

at the wrong tree elenor Shocked

On cheapness...not at all. Love the costumes in Lotr. In every way.

DanielLB
Immortal

Nov 17 2012, 9:47pm

Views: 819

Looks a lot older (more worn out) than what we've seen before.

They haven't filmed his death scene yet, so I wonder if this is very late on in the story? Perhaps in the lead up to the battle?

I can't imagine it's pre-Quest, but I could be wrong.

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ShireHorse
Rohan

Nov 17 2012, 10:04pm

Views: 812

I think they've changed their minds so much

about how Thorin should look - they've said that his image has been the most difficult to get right - that we can't tell much from these shots we saw in the early vlogs because I don't see them using them in the film any more. I don't think the look in that second pic is the one we shall finish up with. The look in Lusitano's picture seems to be the favoured one.

Elenorflower
Gondor

Nov 17 2012, 10:06pm

Views: 794

sorry Lusitano didnt mean to

blast you will the Nucleargaladriel! Blush

my apologies.

But yeah Ngila is beyond reproach IMO, she nailed it. The womens costumes were Pre-Raphaelite medieval inspired dream gowns, they looked straight out of a Waterhouse painting, and the fabrics were rich and sumptuous. The mens costumes were detailed marvelously too. I love the tiny details of Striders Ranger costume, the bandages on his fingers and the weather stained surcoat. I also found Elronds kimono style gowns an interesting idea. I am a bit of a costume nerd, so anyone thinking the LOTR velvets looked cheap is just a bit mind boggling to me, cos I know good stuff when I see it and Halloween it was not.
Crazy

Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 17 2012, 10:08pm

Views: 807

A shame

I really like the look of his nose there, and the seemingly grayer hair. Looks a bit more dwarvish than the final design.

Lusitano
Tol Eressea

Nov 17 2012, 10:09pm

Views: 785

I got scared

that scene when galadriel goes bazooka on frodo is scary and for a moement i thought she was risen again! Wink

Agreed, of all the faults lotr had, costume department, is not one of them.

Elenorflower
Gondor

Nov 17 2012, 10:11pm

Views: 771

sorry Lusitano

my mistake, my apologies to you. Blush

Eleniel
Tol Eressea

Nov 17 2012, 10:11pm

Views: 818

Yes, and this has had a knock on effect on Kili in particular...

Making RA's Thorin look younger has meant that Aiden Turner has had to look almost adolescent to be believable as Thorin's nephew! that's probably the main reason why he couldn't keep his own fuller beard and hair...

Still doesn't explain why he couldn't have a few braids in his hair, though! Frown

"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Ż Victoria Monfort

Lusitano
Tol Eressea

Nov 17 2012, 10:13pm

Views: 761

No

no trouble dear! I enjoy a bit of excitement Sly

Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 17 2012, 10:14pm

Views: 813

On noes

I think I touched a nerve! Smile

I didn't say they all looked cheap. But some of the velvety ones really did look like some of the faux-Pre-Raphaelite stuff you used to see at Ren Fairs and some hippy communes in the 1970s.

But that's just one man's opinion! Smile

Elenorflower
Gondor

Nov 17 2012, 10:44pm

Views: 634

AAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrggggggggh!!!!! cough

Gonna. Go. Nuclear. If anyone disses Ngila! That woman is genius. She didnt get an oscar for making Ren-fair tat.
Honestly men!!!!!! Mad

dormouse
Half-elven

Nov 17 2012, 11:29pm

Views: 591

I agree with you about the costumes...

Have never fogotten seeing some of them at close quarters in the exhibition that went round the world between films two and three. The fabrics, the work that went into them... so much detail that hardly showed up on film. And the words 'velvet' and 'cheap' don't really sit well together, do they!

Elenorflower
Gondor

Nov 18 2012, 12:16am

Views: 564

yes thanks Dormouse,

I have had the honour of seeing an exhibition too, and I was astounded by the craftsmanship and detail. Those dresses were A-mazing, they used the finest fabrics. Smile

I have passed the test, I will take a chill-pill and remain Galadriel. Cool

Tim
Tol Eressea

Nov 18 2012, 2:42am

Views: 526

If it makes you feel any better

In Reply To

Gonna. Go. Nuclear. If anyone disses Ngila! That woman is genius. She didnt get an oscar for making Ren-fair tat.
Honestly men!!!!!! Mad

This man agree's with you. Cool

-Tim came by. Tim! If you had heard only a quarter of what I have heard about him, and I have only heard very little of all there is to hear, you would be prepared for any sort of remarkable tale.

starlesswinter
Lorien

Nov 18 2012, 3:30am

Views: 544

Yikes...we don't think ALL the costumes are bad

Shelob'sAppetite and I were mostly reacting to the velvety-looking costumes (some of the female elven costumes, for example) that simply LOOK cheap. I'm sure they were very expensive and fine fabrics, but I'm not always a fan of the way they look. Sometimes velvet brings to mind that tacky fabric they use to make little girl's princess dresses for Halloween. Frodo's brown jacket is another one I don't think reads well on film. On the other hand, I love Eowyn's white dress, Gandalf's robes, Saruman's robes, etc. There are plenty of wonderful costumes in the films.

I think Ngila Dickson is a great designer. But I also think Ann Maskrey is a better one. Every design of hers I've seen is more flattering and aesthetically pleasing than the previous ones.

Lusitano
Tol Eressea

Nov 18 2012, 4:36am

Views: 519

Et tu starlesswinter

are barking at the wrong tree...

This is starting to become a tradition

Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 18 2012, 6:36am

Views: 475

Agreed

The absolute best costumes, though, were of the Rohirrim. Simply marvelous. Theodred's funeral scene, in particular, features some of the most authentic looking costumes I have ever seen on film.

I also quite liked Boromir's outfit, Gandalf's robes, Gimli's attire, and the elves of Lothlorien.

I thought Aragorn, the hobbits' travelling clothes, and Legolas were pretty uninspired.

And the elves of Rivendell, for the most part, to me looked "cheap" on film. I saw one of them up close once, and it looked expensive and rather nice. But on film, they just didn't work for me. As starless said, they looked a bit girls' Halloween dress.

Eleniel
Tol Eressea

Nov 18 2012, 7:37am

Views: 468

Every single one?

In Reply To

I think Ngila Dickson is a great designer. But I also think Ann Maskrey is a better one. Every design of hers I've seen is more flattering and aesthetically pleasing than the previous ones.

As I commented in the recent Galadriel thread:

Quote

In Sibley's Official Move Guide Ann Maskrey says

Quote

"At the White Council, Galadriel wears a coat in shot silk, woven with a metallic thread that magically catches the light. I originally drew the coat as if it were blowing in the wind, hoping that it would create an ethereal, enigmatic vision of Galadriel...Beneath the coat, Galadriel wears a chiffon dress covered in rivulets of Swarovksi crystals that look like running water over another shimmering layer of beaded chiffon..."

When we saw this gown in V-log 3(?) it is clearly a soft mink or light gold metallic material that glistens under full light, as can be seen in the link you gave and this closer one:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/...1600/galadriel02.jpg

however in a lot of the published images the metallic sheen is just not coming across at all...

There is large picture, based on this one,

http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/...rdboard-stand-up.jpg

in the Visual Guide, and the material just looks like taupe coloured linen - awful!! I don't think this is what Ann Maskrey really wanted!!

Ann may have had a fail on his one...blue filter aside, I really don't think this material choice has worked in any of the lighting conditions we've seen so far in the stills and I just hope it looks better on film!

"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Ż Victoria Monfort

(This post was edited by Eleniel on Nov 18 2012, 7:38am)

DanielLB
Immortal

Nov 18 2012, 7:51am

Views: 461

I hope there is an exhibition for The Hobbit too.

It was amazing, and surreal, to see all the props and costumes.

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dormouse
Half-elven

Nov 18 2012, 8:18am

Views: 442

Yes, me too...

It was an amazing exhibition. I hoped it would come round again but it never did, so a Hobbit one would be a treat.

Eleniel
Tol Eressea

Nov 18 2012, 8:29am

Views: 441

Yes, hope so too...

My eldest kids and I have fond memories of the LotR one at the Science Museum...

"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Ż Victoria Monfort

Elenorflower
Gondor

Nov 18 2012, 3:52pm

Views: 405

I agree with you

about Galadriels gown being a potential fail. I actually thought the white dress looked rather cheap (the one she is swirling in) now that may be made of shot silk and crystals, but it looks like a Simplicity girls fairy costume. and the metallic dress is dull and beige in some photos, although I like the design. The sleeves are nice. I thought Arwens velvet robes were perfection, specially the pale green Coronation gown.
I find some of the Dwarven costumes a bit heavy handed, and I hate Bifur's hat and Radagast just looks like a dirty disgusting hobo. also a fail IMO.

(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Nov 18 2012, 3:55pm)

Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 18 2012, 4:18pm

Views: 403

Honestly

I find those "metallic sheen" dresses to be a tad cheesy, so I like that it isn't so shiny on film.

I would guess that Maskrey was going for a subtle sheen that may not be obvious until Galadriel moves, and the light catches it. If so, she did well.

IMO, she is a much better costume designer than Dickson.

Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 18 2012, 4:20pm

Views: 419

The costumes for Bofur, Radagast, etc are conceptual design choices probably approved by PJ

Before they even got to Maskrey's desk. So I'm not quite sure it is a fail of hers, rather than a perceived fail of the conceptual designers.

Elenorflower
Gondor

Nov 18 2012, 6:00pm

Views: 387

exhibit a. milud.

some bloke in a costume.

exhibit b.
Aragorn.

Eleniel
Tol Eressea

Nov 18 2012, 6:50pm

Views: 375

As I said, I hope it does look better on film, with natural movement...

I'm sure it will, it's just a shame that the beauty of the coat we saw when Cate modelled it in the Vlog hasn't been captured in the publicity material so far....

And I do like Ann's new designs for the Rivendell Elves very much. Smile

"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Ż Victoria Monfort

Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 18 2012, 7:03pm

Views: 362

Not sure what this proves

1. A picture of a young dwarf (Kili) of noble lineage, who has been existing in relative comfort in Ered Luin until his arrival in the Shire (his non-dwarfy facial hair is certainly not Ann Maskrey's problem)
2. A picture of a road-weary ranger, who has been existing in the wild for most of his years (though I still think he looks anachronistically like a biker who lost his motorcycle).

Honestly, I think this is the most apples and oranges example you could have presented.

IMO, a better comparison would be between Thorin and Boromir, both lords of noble lineage.

Exhibit A1:
Thorin

Exhibit B1:
Boromir

If you ask me, I think think they are equally impressive.

Dickson and Maskrey are on a similar plane. However, the place where I think Maskrey outdoes Dickson is in the elvish costumes. I thought many of the Rivendell elf costumes in LOTR looked cheap, but otherwise, she did an excellent job.

starlesswinter
Lorien

Nov 18 2012, 7:55pm

Views: 333

Exactly

I'm sure the dwarven costumes will go through similarly rough treatment as the films progress. The promotional stills are clearly meant to feature the clean, polished versions of the costumes.

And yes, it's the Rivendell elves that looked cheap on film. The key words here are "on film" - not in photographs, in a book, or in person. I really don't have a problem with any others, save Frodo's coat. As I said earlier, Ngila Dickson's very talented and did great work, I just like Ann Maskrey's designs more.

starlesswinter
Lorien

Nov 18 2012, 7:59pm

Views: 339

Bofur's hat is the perfect whimsical touch

That's actually my favorite bit of costuming so far!

And when it comes to Radagast, I'm not sure we can blame Ann Maskrey for the "hobo" appearance. If he was written to be this ridiculous character with birds in his hair and poo on his face, I don't think it was Maskrey's chice to make him look like that.

Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 18 2012, 8:15pm

Views: 368

Right

And my guess is that Bofur's hat was part of his conceptual design, and that Maskrey had little choice in the matter. She may have chosen the fabrics for the hat, and been given carte blanche over small details, but I very much doubt she was given free reign to design the overall looks of the dwarves. The distinctive silhouettes of the dwarves are a key feature of PJ's story-telling, and so it is not likely they were left to Maskrey to create.

Eleniel
Tol Eressea

Nov 18 2012, 8:18pm

Views: 359

Ann Maskrey on Dressing Radagast:

Quote

"I wanted to create the look of an eccentric person from the woodlands using as many different textures as possible in the design. Under everything, Radagast has a really scruffy pair of long johns that we made to be nice and baggy iin the crotch. Over these, he wears several layers of clothing, all of which look old and worn, including two waistcoats, the outer one made in a fabric with a metallic thread hat we had woven in Britain. Over this are two layers of dyed chiffon embroidered with seventeenth-century chain stitch in a pattern of my own featuring trees, rabbits and butterflies. The buttons are mismatched and it's meant to be done up wrongly in a mad way - rather like I do up my cardigan in the morning when I'm in a rush!

Finally, he has a top layer of a ragged velvet coat with the pile worn away, a furry wizard hat without a point, but with what look like rabbitty ears, and, because Peter wanted him to have an asymmetrical look, odd shoes: one velvet brocade slipper and a leather, curly-toed boot."

Again, from the Sibley movie guide...incredible detail, hardly any of which will be appreciated full on screen, but testament to the care, skill and attention to detail that goes into these movies.

"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Ż Victoria Monfort

(This post was edited by Eleniel on Nov 18 2012, 8:19pm)

Owain
Tol Eressea

Nov 18 2012, 9:54pm

Views: 287

Love it! Thanks for sharing.//

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."

starlesswinter
Lorien

Nov 18 2012, 10:26pm

Views: 269

Also...

The distinctive dwarven design is something that was already established in LOTR (earthy colors, geometric patterns, angular features, heavy layers, etc).

Elenorflower
Gondor

Nov 18 2012, 10:30pm

Views: 282

The point I was making SA

is that one is a costume and the other is the character come to life through the costume. Viggo inhabits the costume and transcends it from mere clothes into an organic part of the character of Aragorn. The Dwarven costume is just a bloke in fancy dress, looking a bit manga. I am sure they will dirty him up somewhat during the journey, but at the mo, I am not convinced about these Dwarven costumes.

But I do like the Elven ones of Rivendell although the Mirkwood King Thranduil is a bit glam rock. Wink

starlesswinter
Lorien

Nov 18 2012, 10:39pm

Views: 274

I still don't think that's a fair comparison

We've seen about 9 hours of Viggo inhabiting a character through his costume. All we've seen of Kili is a couple promotional shots and a few seconds in the trailers. We have no idea how the actors will use their clothing. The same could be said for every single one of the costumes in the Hobbit (except for Gandalf's robes, maybe, since we've seen them before).

Elenorflower
Gondor

Nov 18 2012, 10:50pm

Views: 240

fair or not

its my opinion and I am sticking to it.

marillaraina
Rohan

Nov 18 2012, 10:54pm

Views: 244

title

In Reply To

I don't see how it's a fair comparison. You're taking a movie still and comparing it to a promotional still. Aragorn cleaned up pretty well too and his "costume" looked like a "costume" in those instances, IMO. Like when he was getting crowned or the future scene in Arwen's vision or even the scene of the two of them hanging out in Rivendell before he left on the quest(disliked that one, it looked misshapen IMO). They sure as heck didn't look lived in or organic to me.

Elenorflower
Gondor

Nov 18 2012, 11:52pm

Views: 224

fair or not

its my opinion and I am sticking to it.

DarkJackal
Rohan

Nov 19 2012, 2:18am

Views: 309

I'm still pretty impressed by Dickson

I would compare dwarves to dwarves, or men to men, if you want to be even more fair. Try Gimli to Gloin:

http://teetotally.deviantart.com/...er-and-Son-242550753

Just in general, all my Hobbit enthusiasm still can't convince me that Maskrey is better than Dickson, at least not yet. But it may have more to do with the different races we've focused on, and their status. The dwarves' outfits are just more bulky overall than men (so they won't look as sleek or bonded to their wearers), and they haven't been through hell yet. How much a costume has been aged and abused gives it authenticity, but as you said, not everyone has been living in the wild for years (Aragorn) or even crossed a great expanse of Middle-earth (Boromir). The dwarves have only just begun their journey, and shouldn't look like they've been dragged through the mud just yet.

BUT, that image of Thorin comes after the events with the Trolls, Stone Giants, and Goblin town (and maybe after being in a warg's mouth). I would say it is looking surprisingly good for all that (as is its wearer), with not a tear or bit of scale armor out of place. You could certainly argue that isn't as realistic looking as Aragorn's wardrobe after having been through similar misfortunes.

The Hobbit Photo Gallery