The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Stone Giant Smackdown



DemoElite
Rivendell


Oct 11 2012, 11:07pm


Views: 2197
Stone Giant Smackdown
I noticed in the new trailer that a stone giant is falling underneath the dwarves. At first glance, it seems like an avalanche but there is a stone giant outline there. I am sure the movie will take on its own nature and add much more than we read in the book. Are the dwarves in the midst of a battle royale? Thoughts?
Quote
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve!


Bombadil
Half-elven


Oct 11 2012, 11:18pm


Views: 1145
In the Book..page 57
"When he peeped out in the ligthening flashes, he saw.."

SO in one beautiful Tolkien sentence
We get 2 minutes of Terror on Screen.

It's sorta MondayNight Footbal
for these fellows and the Dwarves?

Just Fans in the 3rd row?

You need to post more
Bomby thinks you are great
& Goldberry approves TOO!


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Oct 11 2012, 11:21pm


Views: 1078
I hope the stone giants fight each other
and not the company, because they are not supposed to be plain evil!
But yes, PJ is expanding the scene and is making another menace for the company. For me, it works, adding some danger along the way for the first film.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Oct 11 2012, 11:25pm


Views: 997
Well it was a danger to the company in the text
So I'm not sure that aspect is an addition.

LR


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Oct 11 2012, 11:27pm


Views: 992
if goblin-town
is the middle to latter half of AUJ then I definitely see the journey between rivendell and goblin-town to be greatly expanded.

Those Stone Giants look wonderful.
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Oct 11 2012, 11:29pm


Views: 1005
I just read the chapter yesterday
and they realize that there are giants playing ball with each other and Tolkien mentions that Gandalf looks worried, something like that. But nothing happens, and soon afterwards they are entering the cave, so it's not a danger for a long time in the book.

There's also a line after they escape goblin town, where Gandalf says he'll be looking for a decent giant later that could smash the entrance of goblin town, so that the passage might be save again :D


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 11 2012, 11:36pm


Views: 1023
Kind of agreed. The notion that everything in the time of Middle-Earth is
either primarily good or primarily evil, with no inbetween, is bothersome and not properly representative. Lacrimae is right that they were a danger to the company, but they were an incidental and amoral danger, rather like the storm itself, not a hostile and malicious, evil danger like The Nazgul, or The Balrog, The Barrow Wights or even Old Man Willow. The giants were out amuzing themselves, not looking to kill Dwarves. If some dwarves got in the way and got themselves done in, oh well. But that wasn't the giants agenda.
In Reply To
and not the company, because they are not supposed to be plain evil!
But yes, PJ is expanding the scene and is making another menace for the company. For me, it works, adding some danger along the way for the first film.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Eye's on Guard
Lorien


Oct 11 2012, 11:40pm


Views: 945
Unless...
Pre-Rivendell is longer than we think. Location filming included scenes from outskirts of Hobbiton, Bywater countryside, outskirts of Bree, Farthing Countryside/Weatherhills, and Lonelands even before Trollshaw Forest. It could just be to fill in the geographical gap but I think there might be more going on here. It'd be nice if there was a lot of individual character establishment along the way before the Trollshaws.


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Oct 11 2012, 11:41pm


Views: 917
I hope this will be just so in the film!
Not to much stretch, PJ!!


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Oct 11 2012, 11:43pm


Views: 906
character development is always fine
especially when there are thirteen (unknown) dwarves to the audience!


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Oct 11 2012, 11:52pm


Views: 910
I quite agree.
Just pointing out that it was still dangerous enough for even Gandalf to be a bit worried and for them to be relieved to find shelter from it.

Occasionally it is described here as if the company were just watching them in the distance without concern, so it seemed worth plucking out that the company feeling in danger, in contrast, is a more straightforward interpretation.

LR


(This post was edited by Lacrimae Rerum on Oct 11 2012, 11:59pm)


totoro
Lorien

Oct 12 2012, 5:08am


Views: 794
When I read the Hobbit...
I got the distinct impression that Gandalf and company wanted to avoid attracting the attention of the giants because one of the giants might decide to pick up a dwarf and drop-kick him. I suppose it could be considered an "amoral" danger, but it felt to me like something more than walking through a lightning storm. More like an ant walking by a kid with a magnifying glass at high noon.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 12 2012, 5:53am


Views: 753
True.
And agreed, but again, dangerous in the way that being out in the middle of a terrible storm, or climbing up the side of a mountain is dangerous, as opposed to being pursued by bloodthirsty villains bent on your ruin.
In Reply To
Just pointing out that it was still dangerous enough for even Gandalf to be a bit worried and for them to be relieved to find shelter from it.

Occasionally it is described here as if the company were just watching them in the distance without concern, so it seemed worth plucking out that the company feeling in danger, in contrast, is a more straightforward interpretation.

LR
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Fardragon
Rohan

Oct 12 2012, 7:54am


Views: 699
The stone giants are a personification of natural dangers
In this case, being up a mountain in a storm.

Principally the danger is being hit by a boulder (avalanche).

Compare to Scylla and Charybdis in the Odyssey.
A Far Dragon is the best kind...


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 12 2012, 8:06am


Views: 792
I'm still surprised they made it into the film!
One reference, and they're in!

Why couldn't PJ do that for the LOTR trilogy? Wink

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Fardragon
Rohan

Oct 12 2012, 8:10am


Views: 710
In this case, they make the danger more immediate and spectacular than
"we better hide out in a cave in case of avalanche".
A Far Dragon is the best kind...


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 12 2012, 8:15am


Views: 687
Hiding because of the weather sounds like a good enough reason for me!
Bifur is a walking lightning conductor! Wink

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Fardragon
Rohan

Oct 12 2012, 8:42am


Views: 667
Given that his cousin is an ace brain surgeon
You would have thought he would have had that out...
A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Oct 12 2012, 8:48am


Views: 695
Even the rocks and stones in Middle-earth are hinted at as being sentient...
... I don't have the exact quote, but in FOTR, Legolas says something to the effect that the rocks and stones in Hollin still recall the Elves of Eregion.

It's not too far fetched to believe that the Maiar and other lesser spirits who entered the world at the beginning of time took such forms.

The stone giants should make for a nice visual to back Bilbo's statement that "Middle-earth is, after all, full of strange creatures beyond count." Smile


(This post was edited by Earl on Oct 12 2012, 9:37am)


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 12 2012, 9:27am


Views: 655
Too risky! ;-) /
 

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DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 12 2012, 9:30am


Views: 693
Here's the quote :-)
Quote
'That is true,' said Legolas. `But the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk, and the trees and the grass do not now remember them: Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone. They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago.'
The Ring Goes South

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Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Oct 12 2012, 9:36am


Views: 646
Daniel, you rock! ;)
Yes, that's the line I was talking about. It really sounds (to me anyway) that the stones in that region were more alive, so to speak, just like some of the "trees" in certain other regions.


(This post was edited by Earl on Oct 12 2012, 9:59am)


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 12 2012, 9:58am


Views: 637
I agree!
I think the stones have an after-memory of the Elves, but I don't think they sit there talking to each other.

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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea

Oct 12 2012, 10:51am


Views: 626
Hers my suggestion
One stone-giant is about to hurl a huge rock at the party. One huge enough to knock them all of the mountain to their deaths in the valley below. However, just before he does, he is tackled by a fellow giant, drops the boulder, and they both fall down the mountain laughing. Unwittingly, one Stone-Giant has just saved the entire quest.


Fardragon
Rohan

Oct 12 2012, 12:48pm


Views: 585
SHE could do it...
 
A Far Dragon is the best kind...


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Oct 12 2012, 12:51pm


Views: 507
The mountains are alive
There are many references to living mountains in LotR. Just look at Caradhras

"‘Caradhras was called the Cruel, and had an ill name, said Gimli, `long years ago, when rumour of Sauron had not been heard in these lands.’"

"‘Caradhras has not forgiven us.’ he said. ‘He has more snow yet to fling at us, if we go on. The sooner we go back and down the better.’"

"‘Ah, it is as I said,’ growled Gimli. ‘It was no ordinary storm. It is the ill will of Caradhras. He does not love Elves and Dwarves, and that drift was laid to cut off our escape.’"

"And indeed with that last stroke the malice of the mountain seemed to be expended, as if Caradhras was satisfied that the invaders had been beaten off and would not dare to return. The threat of snow lifted; the clouds began to break and the light grew broader."

Peter Jackson also mentions in the commentary that when Saruman's voice can be heard, he is in fact waking up the mountain, rather than directly causing the avalanche.


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 12 2012, 1:05pm


Views: 465
Metaphorical or literal? ;-) /
 

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painjoiker
Grey Havens


Oct 12 2012, 1:05pm


Views: 482
Surprised?
You think PJ can resist creating monsters in this movie?
Especially now when he has three films to tell the tale?
Vocalist in the semi-progressive metal band Arctic Eclipse


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 12 2012, 1:09pm


Views: 482
It's such a tiny detail that I just expected it to be missed off.
I'm glad they didn't, of course. I love the little details.

Smile

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painjoiker
Grey Havens


Oct 12 2012, 1:50pm


Views: 469
Think about it!
The Stone Giants are in! They only get one reference Smile
I think our chances for getting the purse got slightly higher with the confirmation about the Stone Giants Wink

There's still hope!
Vocalist in the semi-progressive metal band Arctic Eclipse

(This post was edited by painjoiker on Oct 12 2012, 1:50pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 12 2012, 1:58pm


Views: 445
I live in hope! /
 

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Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Oct 12 2012, 5:27pm


Views: 433
Mostly agreed
Although the fear that they will be picked up does suggest a little more danger to them than to the tree next to them (I.e. it isn't quite as indiscriminate as a storm).

LR


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 13 2012, 4:57am


Views: 397
I know!
Soo many things would have been different. lol. Seems like the less book time you get (cough, Lindir), the more likely you are to end up in the films. Lol. Ass backwards, but I am glad the giants made it, at least for now. lol
In Reply To
One reference, and they're in!

Why couldn't PJ do that for the LOTR trilogy? Wink
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Oct 13 2012, 4:58am)


Elenorflower
Gondor


Oct 13 2012, 12:49pm


Views: 383
I think Tolkien
added the Stone Giants as just an extra motive for them all to gain shelter from the storm, just one more reason why they were all persuaded to take shelter in that cave. If there had not been imminent danger of being crushed by flying bits of mountain, they may have gone on through the night instead of stopping.


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 13 2012, 2:03pm


Views: 384
That's assuming one thinks of them as a literal threat
If one thinks of the Stone Giants as metaphorical, then they are already part of the storm. If they're literal, then they're an additional threat. Wink

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Fardragon
Rohan

Oct 13 2012, 2:09pm


Views: 389
The chance of something being included
has nothing to do with the number of words devoted to it, and everything to do with how well it serves the movie.

Thus, the stone giants are included because they increase the peril in an action sequence, not because they are essential to the story.

The decision to include or not include the purse will be made on the same basis. In this case, the purse would increase the comedy rating of the scene. My feeling is it won't make it into that scene, because PJ will want to crank up the tension, not lessen it. It might turn up elsewhere in the story though.
A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 13 2012, 3:07pm


Views: 448
Repeated mentions of the stone-giants...
In Reply To
If one thinks of the Stone Giants as metaphorical, then they are already part of the storm. If they're literal, then they're an additional threat. Wink

...first to the Great Goblin and later in reference to sealing up the cavern in the pass eliminate the notion that they were meant to be metaphorical in nature.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Oct 13 2012, 3:33pm


Views: 361
Whilst I agree with the point.
I'm not sure if there is a textual difference here which might be causing some confusion.
In my text, the stone giants are mentioned to Beorn but not to the Great Goblin and when Gandalf refers to blocking up the cavern he simply uses the term "giant" not "stone-giant"

Not sure on the discrepancies

LR


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 13 2012, 3:45pm


Views: 376
I probably did mean Beorn rather than the Great Goblin
It might not be a textual discrepency as much as myself relying too much on faulty memory. Upon reviewing my copy of The Hobbit I see that you are correct and the stone-giants are not mentioned in the encounter with the Great Goblin.

As no other giants are mentioned in reference to the Misty Mountains, it seems safe to assume that Gandalf was speaking of the stone-giants when he was contemplating sealing the cave entrance in the pass.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Oct 13 2012, 3:57pm


Views: 383
Just for interest
And not being nit-picky, but giants get mentioned a few times outside of the stone-giants.

Bilbo thinks about all the names of giants and ogres he had ever heard told of in tales whilst trying to guess a riddle, and in the Shire mentions that Gandalf is famous for his stories of dragons and goblins and giants.

Also, Beorn is said to be descended from an ancient bear who lived in the mountains before the giants came there.

So I'm not sure we can really know what Gandalf meant. It might well be a stone-giant but equally he might have been speaking of some other type (since there seems at least to be some distinction).

LR


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 13 2012, 4:02pm


Views: 370
The stone-giants may be the ones who displaced the moutain bears...
...and who is to say that some of them had not become famous/infamous? Still, you do make your point that some other types of giants can't be ruled out (including tree-men?).
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 13 2012, 4:25pm


Views: 567
I always read them as literal beings. /
 

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