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Cheesy moments on LOTR



TheHutt
Gondor


Oct 9 2012, 10:05pm


Views: 2793
Cheesy moments on LOTR

Okay, we all love PJ and his LOTR trilogy. Me, as well. Though I personally think it is rather inferior compared to his "Braindead" and "Meet the Feebles" movies. And as for the LOTR trilogy, I love it DESPITE its cheesy moments, knowing they're there.

But here's my question:
Objectively speaking what moments in the LOTR trilogy would you call cheesy? I mean, cheap, out of line, unfitting the gorgeous rest?

Myself, I have some personal candidates. I'll start with one.

- FOTR, Theatrical Version
The subtitle "The Shire... 60 years later". How cheesy, tv-like is that? Who would ever need such a title - also, it's the only such time-and-place title in the whole trilogy!

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Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Oct 10 2012, 12:46am


Views: 1903
Funny, but out of place

Last summer, I took a class on The Lord of the Rings, and the teacher showed us the Extended Editions. I saw the first 30 minutes of the EE of Fellowship of the Ring. There was a part where Bilbo is greeting the party guests, and a woman with 12 kids shows up, and, well here is how the dialogue went.
Bilbo: Are all these children yours?
Woman: Yes.
Bilbo: My, you've been productive!
It was so funny, but totally out of place. The whole class laughed at that line.

(For the record, I went out of town a few days, and missed some classes, and did not get to see all of the EE. But I plan on getting them myself soon.)


Plurmo
Rohan

Oct 10 2012, 1:13am


Views: 1900
Gimli's "He was twitching because he's got

my axe embedded in his nervous system"

"nervous system" is too "modern" a term for a world like Third Age Middle-earth. That sounded awfully misplaced, like if when Pippin was knocked out by the Palantír someone shouted "give him an aspirin!"


weaver
Half-elven


Oct 10 2012, 3:10am


Views: 1833
Gandalf getting all big and bad in Bag End...

I know what they were going for, and it is in the book, but having Gandalf "seem" like he grew big and powerful in Bag End is the kind of thing that's better read on a page than actually shown on screen. Other "seeming" moments like this (Galadriel's temptation, Frodo in the wraith-world), are done with effects that give the impression that it's more of an altered state kind of thing going on, and not that some wizard just expanded, physically to twice his size. This was a bit too close to "real" for me so it doesn't work as well for me, I guess!

Weaver



Istaris'staffs
Rivendell


Oct 10 2012, 4:25am


Views: 1868
Emo Frodo...

I thought ROTK got cheesy with Frodo and Sam's interactions at the end...
Often times the comedy was quite cheesy as well.


Elutherian
Rohan


Oct 10 2012, 4:37am


Views: 1893
Frodo falling in Mordor....

....It was not handled well, to say the least.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


Starling
Half-elven


Oct 10 2012, 7:14am


Views: 1892
The 'laughing' scene

When Frodo wakes up towards the end of ROTK just does my head in. Every time I see it I find it worse. And the 'laughing' moment when Gandalf first arrives and Frodo leaps into the cart in FOTR I find pretty dreadful too.

Closely followed by the "I made some stew" scene in TTT. Shocker.

Thankfully, the scenes I find moving and beautiful far outweigh the cheese for me.

Sometimes, Peter Jackson's style reminds me of James Cameron. With both these directors, when they get it right, they make magic. But when they get it wrong, I have to cover my eyes. Crazy


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 10 2012, 8:59am


Views: 1821
Not too out of place

Oin is a DIY doctor. He might have learnt it from him?

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TheHutt
Gondor


Oct 10 2012, 10:38am


Views: 1846
Cheesy moments from ROTK SEE

I have some really cheesy moments from ROTK SEE. And, the makers must have been aware of their cheesiness, by cutting them out of the theatrical version and even leaving just the good parts of them in the ROTK SEE advertizing trailer.

- Saruman on the spike
- Skull avalanche on Paths of the Dead
- The whole attack on the pirates bit (also because it's redundant and spoils the outcome of the Pelennor battle)
- Aragorn dropping his Evenstar pendant, breaking it.

I really hate seeing most of these scenes. Because of them, the I personally think ROTK SEE is rather inferior to the theatrical version.

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Misto
Lorien

Oct 10 2012, 12:28pm


Views: 1818
Ouch my head... and again!


In Reply To
When Frodo wakes up towards the end of ROTK just does my head in. Every time I see it I find it worse.


Me too. It's just way too long. I always wonder what drugs they were on.

Also I'm not into the bumping into the ceiling stuff Gandalf does at bag end. Okay, so he once ran into the chandelier that's about okay and somewhat funny. But really I got the point alright. No need to do it again only a few seconds later.Crazy


(This post was edited by Misto on Oct 10 2012, 12:28pm)


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Oct 10 2012, 12:31pm


Views: 1764
Your school is awesome

Cool

I can not guarantee his safety - understood...
Nor will I be responsible for his fate - Doh!


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Oct 10 2012, 12:35pm


Views: 1859
Oh that thing of the skulls

I don´t like it, very unnecesary, when I see PJ´S KingKong skull island reminds me all of that, I feel the thought of skull island was on his mind by that time, very deep but arosing, so unnecesarily

Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli attacking the pirates, I like Aragorn´s despair when he sees the ships, but the rest is so cheap, I don´t get it...Unsure

I can not guarantee his safety - understood...
Nor will I be responsible for his fate - Doh!


TheHutt
Gondor


Oct 10 2012, 1:14pm


Views: 1817
And also Gimli...

...pushing Legolas' bow in order to kill the pirate captain. What the hell? What for?

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Elenorflower
Gondor


Oct 10 2012, 3:47pm


Views: 1835
the worst ones for me are,

1. Eowyns stew. A shieldmaiden would never make stew, ever,
2. yup, gimli and 'the nervous system'.
3. Escaping kids from a Rohirrim village, cheesy stinky cheese.
4. Eowyns 'song', boy that made me cringe.


Escapist
Gondor


Oct 10 2012, 4:05pm


Views: 1800
One person's cheese

is another person's fungus I guess.

  • In Imladris, when Elrond dubs the fellowship "The Fellowship of the Ring" and they are all lined up perfect for picture day (it's not so much Elrond as it is the way everyone is lined up just-so ... in my experience that never happens naturally and is always the result of an extended shuffling and shifting about of positions and poses and never just a spontaneous thing that emerges - I was really waiting for someone to pull out a polaroid at any minute)
  • Frodo waking up in the room of white light with everyone jumping around, smiling, and laughing dubiously



Elenorflower
Gondor


Oct 10 2012, 8:15pm


Views: 1734
you are right

nobody said, ''Say Cheese!'' Sly


Harold.of.Whoa
Rivendell


Oct 11 2012, 12:21am


Views: 1800
But for the EEs...

As a downtrodden advocate for the Theatrical Release versions of the trilogy, I could not help but notice how many of the preceding responses identified scenes that are only in the EEs. Unsure

I think my definition of cheesy is probably off, but the scene that comes to mind for me is the severed heads of Faramir's company coming over the wall. Gothmog says "Release the prisoners!" and the grisly missiles are catapulted from almost a mile away. Then a skyward shot shows them falling over the wall with a velocity that clearly indicates some dudes just on the other side of that wall chucked them over. Why, oh why even show the inbound heads?


Starling
Half-elven


Oct 11 2012, 1:13am


Views: 1763
It's been years since I saw the theatre versions

You raise an interesting point. There are definitely additional scenes in the EE's which I don't like, and actually skip on occasion.
Some scenes which were added to the EE's I do like. I liked having more Faramir and Boromir, and their family relationship baggage, as an example.

As far as the severed heads go, when the orc with the extra attached head shouts 'Catapaults!', I laugh out loud every time. I'm not sure why I find it so funny, but I always look forward to it. Same with "Hands off that shiny shirt".


weaver
Half-elven


Oct 11 2012, 3:16am


Views: 1736
You are not alone!

I vastly prefer the Theatrical versions over the EE's -- the TE's are the only ones I ever watch, and I tend to treat the EE additions as I do the Appendices in the books, interesting as supplemental info, but not part of the main story.

Maybe we should we start a club! Smile

Weaver



Loresilme
Valinor


Oct 11 2012, 4:02pm


Views: 1729
It's his delivery

I also laugh at that one. Maybe it's something about how loud and piercing and rather high pitched it is or how gleefully he seems to yell the word. It's just great - I don't know if we're supposed to laugh, but I do.


Elutherian
Rohan


Oct 11 2012, 4:38pm


Views: 1776
I've always found Gandalf bumping his head hilarious....

.....and it actually works to humanize him as a character.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


Starling
Half-elven


Oct 11 2012, 6:51pm


Views: 1653
Oh goody, another fan

Shall we start an appreciation club? Cool


guitarzankansasfan
Lorien


Oct 12 2012, 8:29am


Views: 1660
I prefer the Theatrical version of TTT

It's pacing and storytelling was excellent. But I prefer the EE of Fellowship, and there's a lot of stuff I like more in the EE of RoTK.

There was a man.
There was a lady.
There was a Dragon Lord.


guitarzankansasfan
Lorien


Oct 12 2012, 8:32am


Views: 1750
Denethor's flaming leap

I didn't like Denethor's death scene at all, I think PJ changed it to running and leaping off the edge of the rock partly so he could do a big wide shot of the battle. Yes it was cinematic and cool looking, but a huge departure from the book. I would have loved to have seen that scene more closely to what was described in the book.

There was a man.
There was a lady.
There was a Dragon Lord.


FlyingSerkis
Rivendell

Oct 12 2012, 3:13pm


Views: 1584
Eowyn's stew scene

And Saruman on a spike.
And those bloody skulls in the Paths of the Dead.

I like most of the EE-only scenes, and many of them add a lot to the story, but I wish those three (and Gandalf's staff being broken) hadn't been included.


Misto
Lorien

Oct 12 2012, 3:35pm


Views: 1367
Don't get me started on Denethor!

How could I forget this? Topped by the moment when Gandalf smacks Denethor with his staff. I mean... really?Shocked
I really love book-verse Denethor and I think John Noble does a really decent job in the few moments where they actually let him act but movie-Denethor is just not for me. Having seen the movies first, coming upon Tolkien's original idea of Denethor in the books was quite a revelation.


Nuradar
Rohan


Oct 12 2012, 6:39pm


Views: 1366
the second time

was actually an accident. He says so in the special features.


Nuradar
Rohan


Oct 12 2012, 6:48pm


Views: 1338
these parts make me cringe

- Eowyn's song at Theodred's funeral (man, that was painful. I fast forward through it every time I watch).
- the "nervous system" line in TTT. So out of place.
- the slow-motion during the scene where they encounter Celeborn and Galadriel in Lothlorien.
- when Sam fights the Orcs on the stairs of Barad-dur before rescuing Frodo. The Orcs are too easily killed.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Oct 12 2012, 8:58pm


Views: 1344
yeah Saruman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn7ym3qqTy4


sevilodorf
Grey Havens


Oct 12 2012, 11:59pm


Views: 1403
Agree

If just for the logistics of a person running that distance.

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GoodGuyA
Lorien

Oct 13 2012, 4:23am


Views: 1366
The biggest thing about the flaming leap...

Is that I never notice it! Not a single time, unless I'm looking for it! It's such a rapid shot and you can't get a real grasp of what it is. I found the actual preperation to burn, though overly dramatic, not exactly cheesy.

I'm putting up my defense for the Saruman death scene. That may be heavy handed, but it's not like Saruman's very purpose in thematic representation wasn't heavy handed. The scene is very hard hitting, from the impact, to the reaction, to the very purpose it serves in the plot. It's a visual flair, just like Minas Morgul erupting. Was that cheesy? "Cheesy moments" are usually just tossed aside but this was through and through with its dramatic impact. Even the absurd can be made plausible (case and point, Gandalf).

I do confess though, I hate it when you see the Uruks chasing the Fellowship across the Anduin. It's not that it wasn't necessary, but the fact that you have that pounding music (though awesome music) and sweeping shot intercutting their running... Which uses that stupid frame cutting technique (and, of course, PJ didn't learn his lesson for King Kong!) that really kills the actual presence that the Uruks have on screen.

Mainly I'll defend most of the gratuitous imagery or otherwise mainly because it serves a story purpose, though when it derides from that story purpose, then you start to have decisions which are genuinely "cheesy". The orc on pike at Fangorn is not cheesy. The menace of Gothmog is not cheesy. And above all, I find there are some movies which make me cover my eyes when I see articular scenes, but everything in LotR is engaging and not so filmy as to take me out of it. The immersion building in these films is so spectacular.

And people trashing Eowyn's song? Are you serious? That's one of the most unique pieces in the trilogy, and it's sung fine! Man... Some people.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Oct 13 2012, 12:40pm


Views: 1308
GoodGuyA ok I have just rewatched the

EE version of Eowyns lament for Theodred in the spirit of being fair to your comment, and I was quite shocked at how different it sounded. I had only ever seen a very truncated short version before, indeed I had never seen that scene in full before.I had probably only seen the theatrical version I think, but whatever version it was it hadnt shown the full scene, It was completely different, and on this viewing I really liked it a lot. It didnt sound cheesy or cringy at all, it sounded arcane and right for the moment, so it just goes to show which version you see makes all the difference and puts things into context. I have now completely changed my idea on this, and I am only sorry I put Eowyns Lament on my list of cheesy moments.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Oct 13 2012, 12:42pm)


GoodGuyA
Lorien

Oct 13 2012, 3:29pm


Views: 1298
Just goes to show the graciousness of Galadriel

Wink You didn't have to do that, but I'm glad I could make the viewing more enjoyable for you! I just find it to be a lovely piece, and impeccably sung in Old English! Another moment where heart triumphs in the film. Though I will certainly concede that the song in the Houses of Healing is a bit cheesy. Not that it's a bad song (and Liv, you're gorgeous!) but it's in rather non-poetic English. We only get English songs at the end of the films, and they're strongly orchestral.


Magpie
Immortal


Oct 13 2012, 4:17pm


Views: 1299
we've had some past discussions about Eowyn's songs

that were interesting. I'll go in a moment and see if I can track down any.

I feel the same way about Liv's song in the Houses of Healing. And for pretty much the same reason. It's worse, imo, that a really beautiful song was bumped to make way for it: Sissel's Asëa Aranion.
http://www.youtube.com/...youtu.be&t=2m52s

okay...

here's one of the discussions of the scene at Theodred's grave.
http://newboards.theonering.net/...cgi?post=78835#78835

I thought there were more but I can't find them.

I did some work on the lyrics and translation of this song before there was much official information and I enjoyed dabbling in the Old English. I am fascinated by etymology and enjoyed finding the word gléomenn which is the ancestor of 'gleemen' and glee clubs (a term that was common when I was a child) and now Glee. I love Funeral of Théodred (aka as Lament for Théodred) and only wish I could have a full length version of it. The melody was written by Plan 9.

(and one slight correction to this: 'we only get English songs at the end of the film'. There are, of course, the diegetic songs sung by the Hobbits. I don't count those and I suspect you wouldn't either. But the other score song that is in English is also sung by Liv/Arwen - the one heard as she kneels by Frodo at the banks of the Anduin. I argued with someone who identified those lyrics as English - back when we didn't have much on lyrics - saying, 'there's no way those would be in English.' Well, he was right and I was wrong. I kind of sucked it up then and grumbled under my breath but I really didn't like having the one at the Houses of Healing included.)


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Elenorflower
Gondor


Oct 13 2012, 5:48pm


Views: 1258
thanks,

you know that scene that I had never seen before is making me wonder if I have missed a version of the EE? I mean I just dont remember seeing the full version of Theodreds burial at all. Obviously I saw the theatrical version, and I thought I had seen the EE, but is there another version? maybe on the dvd? there is another scene I dont remember either, its the one where you see Aragorn and co looking over to Caras Galadhon in the distance, I dont remember seeing that anywhere. crikey.
Anyway you are right, its very good, I like the bit where Eowyn seems to be wringing her hands in grief, I am glad I made the effort to watch it.
Wink

actually the song by Liv is my favourite in the whole film because its so romantic, I know there are more authentic songs, but it just makes me sigh and go all dreamy, I love the visuals too.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Oct 13 2012, 5:55pm)


Elenorflower
Gondor


Oct 13 2012, 6:00pm


Views: 1247
Magpie thanks for posting that discussion

about Theodreds burial, its very interesting. I also noticed the woman singing behind Eowyn, it was a lovely touch, very moving.
Its a shame missed the screencap discussion, I would have liked to discuss it more.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Oct 13 2012, 6:02pm)


Magpie
Immortal


Oct 13 2012, 6:37pm


Views: 1184
you can find transcripts of the movies online

I usually just google something like: Fellowship Ring transcript

Some sites have just the TE or the EE and some have both but not for all three movies. I just jump to whatever comes up highest on the Google search. Council of Elrond is one of the sites.

They can be useful for tracking down whether a scene is in the TE or just in the EE (and there are a few scenes which are fairly different in each version) or for figuring out where a scene takes place (shots of Isildur can be seen in the prologue, while Gandalf is at the libraries, and when Elrond reminisces).

You could browse the transcripts and find those scenes you're wondering about and then check where they are and in which version.

There is only the TE and the EE of each movie. There is not a third version.


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Magpie
Immortal


Oct 13 2012, 6:40pm


Views: 1309
Well, you're discussing it now :-)

The SCODs kind of plod their way through all three movies but you're always welcome to start a spontaneous discussion on any topic you chose.

The thing I miss about some of those old discussions are the posters who aren't around much anymore. There were some really insightful people who always made me look at things in a new way. They drop in now and again, but not with any regularity.

But new blood can bring new ideas if we get the critical mass to get ideas exchanging. :-)


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Elenorflower
Gondor


Oct 13 2012, 9:08pm


Views: 1199
ok thanks

I am glad there isnt some mysterious 3rd version I hadnt seen. I will just have to invest in the EE version, and pay more attention.
Wink


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Oct 14 2012, 1:48am


Views: 1174
My feelings exactly

   

Quote

Thankfully, the scenes I find moving and beautiful far outweigh the cheese for me.

Sometimes, Peter Jackson's style reminds me of James Cameron. With both these directors, when they get it right, they make magic. But when they get it wrong, I have to cover my eyes.



And yes, I find the slo-mo laughing scene painful to watch. Tongue


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Oct 14 2012, 2:09am


Views: 1254
The more often I've watched, the more cheese I've found

For the most part, I love these films, but, as the saying goes, familiarity breeds contempt. Well, maybe not contempt, but some cringing and eye-rolling. It's not so much whole scenes that bother me - though there are a few - it's little details or matters of style. Most people have already noted many of the eye-rollers for me, but I have to say I can't stand any of the scenes with orcs besides the Moria orcs and the Uruk Hai at the end of the Fellowship. The orcs in those scenes work for me, all the other orc scenes ooze cheese. Much sillier than sinister. And when the orcs are squabbling over the hobbits in TTT and you see what looks like a string of sausage links thrown into the air - but I suspect it was supposed to looks like intestines - either way, pure cringe-worthy cheese. Crazy


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 14 2012, 4:03am


Views: 1222
One of the few times I will agree with you (openly)


Quote
I do confess though, I hate it when you see the Uruks chasing the Fellowship across the Anduin. It's not that it wasn't necessary, but the fact that you have that pounding music (though awesome music) and sweeping shot intercutting their running... Which uses that stupid frame cutting technique (and, of course, PJ didn't learn his lesson for King Kong!) that really kills the actual presence that the Uruks have on screen.


That is, for me, one of the most poorly done sequences in all three films. Some more:

1. Merry and Pippin bumping into Frodo and Sam in the cornfield. The odds!
2. "I think I've broken something" - Merry
3. Weathertop. The whole thing. But especially Aragorn's flaming torch throw into the Nazgul's face.
4. "What's this? A Ranger caught off his guard?" Velveeta.
5. Slo-motion meeting of Frodo, Sam, Pippin and Merry in Rivendell
6. Gimli's hack at the Ring
7. "You shall be the fellowship of the ring!" with everyone in their perfect wedding photo poses
8. The first hero fellowship shot with everyone coming over the ridge in slow-motion. No more slo-motion please...
9. Frodo's slo-motion fake death in the Chamber of Mazarbul
9b. Sam fighting orcs with his pan..."I think I'm getting the hang of this!" Beyond stupid.
10. The fellowship is surrounded by thousands of goblins, meaning certain death, and are then bailed out by the Balrog. Was this necessary?
11. Celeborn's slo-motion dialogue
12. Most of the Saruman-Uruk Hai scenes. Pure camp.
13. Aragorn's fake death/warg scene
14. The stew scene
15. Theoden's OTT makeup
16. Wormtongue's OTT evilness
17. The entire Treebeard sequence
18. Everything Gimli says and does from TTT onwards
19. Theoden's "Is that all you've got, Saruman?" Like something out of a bad football movie.
20. Most of Helm's Deep.
21. Sam's dumb, corny speech at the end of TTT
22. The drinking game
23. Skull-valanche
24. The attack on the pirates
25. Green scrubbing bubbles on the Pelennor
26. Legolas' mumakil downer
27. Every single thing about Denethor
27. The dumb conversation that represents "The Last Debate"
28. Gollum's "crumbs" trick
29. Frodo sending Sam away
30. The mind-numbing "waking up in Minas Tirith" Hallmark horrible-fest
31. The mind-numbing Grey Havens hug fest

Well, you get the picture.

As a wise man once said, PJ paints a Mona Lisa, then scribbles smiley faces, and pours hot velveeta, all over it.

-SA
P.S. I do have to strongly disagree about Theodred's funeral scene. Eowyn's song seems awkward primarily because she does not sing in a mode that is comfortable for modern audiences. And though it may cause discomfort, it is not quite "cheesy." I found it very effective.



aruman
Rivendell


Oct 14 2012, 9:36pm


Views: 1193
Yes, yes, yes! YES!

"- Eowyn's song at Theodred's funeral (man, that was painful. I fast forward through it every time I watch)."

I was just wondering last time I watched TTT...how does the actress ever watch that part? Painful, very painful.


In the movies Elrond, Denethor, Haldir, Galadriel, and Celeborn stink.


aruman
Rivendell


Oct 14 2012, 9:36pm


Views: 1198
Frodo sits up in bed...

...Ga-a-andaalf?

Also, all of Gimli's jokes.

In the movies Elrond, Denethor, Haldir, Galadriel, and Celeborn stink.


aruman
Rivendell


Oct 14 2012, 9:40pm


Views: 1227
Agreed on both counts!

Although, to be fair, Frodo/Sam's friendship in the book might seem cheesy in this day and age Sly

In the movies Elrond, Denethor, Haldir, Galadriel, and Celeborn stink.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 15 2012, 3:18am


Views: 1165
Disagreed

The rhythm of the song is simply not one that is very familiar to a modern audience, so it seems awkward. However, I would be curious to hear what you find particularly objectionable about the scene.

Also, though I can understand not liking the song, the scenery and cinematography during that sequence are, IMO, some of the best in all three films. It just feels like Tolkien.


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Oct 15 2012, 5:18am


Views: 1154
Agreed , no dairy products in sight here

I think this scene is quite appropriate to the situation and is consistent with the culture that had been established for the Rohirrim. The funereal song, and Eowyn's emotion, seemed authentic. I thought it was beautifully done.


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Oct 15 2012, 5:26am


Views: 1289
One small correction

I don't mind the Uruk Hai at Helm's Deep. There are a couple of moments that are silly, but overall, I thought The Battle at Helm's Deep and the Uruks part in it were effective. It's when they are squabbling with the Mordor orcs and complaining about "maggo'y bread" that they lose their aura of menace and seem campy.


aruman
Rivendell


Oct 15 2012, 3:08pm


Views: 1208
Really sorry to sound so shallow...

I just didn't enjoy listening to Eowyn's singing voice...so not really cheesy I guess, just painful.

In the movies Elrond, Denethor, Haldir, Galadriel, and Celeborn stink.

(This post was edited by aruman on Oct 15 2012, 3:09pm)


aruman
Rivendell


Oct 15 2012, 3:11pm


Views: 1204
Agreed on both counts, but...

Here we see some of the inherent challenges in bringing LOTR to the silver screen. The stew scene was lame, cheesy, and most Un-Tolkien-esque IMHO, but I also feel like you pretty much need some stuff like that in the movie, to help capture modern audiences.

In the movies Elrond, Denethor, Haldir, Galadriel, and Celeborn stink.


aruman
Rivendell


Oct 15 2012, 3:24pm


Views: 1025
Excellent point!


Quote
as the saying goes, familiarity breeds contempt. Well, maybe not contempt, but some cringing and eye-rolling.




I think this is true not only for you, but for myself and many other viewers. When the films first came out, I felt like there were mainly two groups of viewers, from what I read online:

1. Those that didn't like the films
2. Those that loved the films and thought they were perfect in every way (a bit of an exaggeration perhaps, but not much)

As time has passed and the excitement has cooled down somewhat, many of us can now take an honest look at the films and what we really think of them. Are the films great? Well, I believe that's up to each individual viewer, but I feel they are great in their own ways. I have to constantly remind myself not to compare them to the books.

When watching them with my wife I find myself pausing the DVD every 30 seconds and explaining how this part is different from the book. "OK so here's what really happened..." "Here's the feeling that I got from reading the books that you don't really get at all with these movies..." "Frodo never spoke to Aragorn after Boromir tried to take the ring..."

The nice thing about it now is we can actually have intelligent discussions. 10 years ago I saw someone post that they thought movie Elrond was a jerk (which he is, a colossal one) and tons of people jumped all over him/her. Nowadays more people are saying the Elrond (and Denethor) are much different than in the books.

In the movies Elrond, Denethor, Haldir, Galadriel, and Celeborn stink.


weaver
Half-elven


Oct 16 2012, 12:28am


Views: 1089
Hmmm...I'm more lactose tolerant, I guess!

When you stop and think about it, the entire premise of the film could have been labeled cheese -- evil Rings? Talking trees? Giant eagles? -- but instead, they somehow pulled off the challenge of making the Tale work on screen.

More and more, I think what we got was a "film opera" -- when you look at the scenes or plot elements individually, they can seem over-the-top, or cheesy or whatever you want to call it, but together, it all works to create the right kind of stage for this story on screen. At least from the non-fan and critic perspective, for the most part, who ended up having a lot of respect for Tolkien and fantasy as a result of these films. (Same goes for many fans -- I don't see a lot of cheese or scribbles on Jackson's Mona Lisa, sorry. She looks very nice to me!Smile)

Weaver



aruman
Rivendell


Oct 16 2012, 12:59am


Views: 1107
Agreed

Not really sure why they decided to butcher the characters of Elrond and Denethor. And I agree the actor did an amazing job considering what he had to work with.

In the movies Elrond, Denethor, Haldir, Galadriel, and Celeborn stink.


Ring-Bearer
Rivendell


Oct 20 2012, 4:13pm


Views: 982
Well...


In Reply To

Also I'm not into the bumping into the ceiling stuff Gandalf does at bag end. Okay, so he once ran into the chandelier that's about okay and somewhat funny. But really I got the point alright. No need to do it again only a few seconds later.Crazy


In reality, this was not originally planned. Ian mistakenly bumped his head but went along and worked it into his acting, so PJ kept it.

And as far as Éowyn's song, yes it is painful, but it reflects the pain that she was going through.

'What are we holding on to, Sam?'
'There's good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for!'


'I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you!'


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 20 2012, 5:04pm


Views: 992
Disagreed

The millions and millions of people that have made the Lord of the Rings books one of the best-selling books of all time (just behind the Bible), likely don't think that the story is "cheesy."

Yes, if you describe it as being about "evil rings," and "talking eagles" it may sound cheesy. But what if one describes it as a story about "dehumanization" and "death." Does it sound cheesy now?

Great stories are about execution, and Tolkien's tale is executed brilliantly. If anything, PJ, was working at a massive advantage to other directors, not a disadvantage. He was working with a story that millions of people already loved and cherished, as opposed to a blank slate.

I always feel that many greatly overstate how much of a "gamble" this was for PJ. Anyone who was minimally competent, IMO, would have made successful LOTR films.


kzer_za
Rivendell

Oct 20 2012, 6:14pm


Views: 1014
Good director + good source material doesn't necessarily mean a good movie.

Look at David Lynch's Dune, which is sometimes considered the LotR of sci-fi (I personally wouldn't put the books anywhere near that level of quality, but that's not the point). Shakespeare movies also tend to be pretty uneven, and some of the best ones are basically filmed plays.

I don't think PJ was the only one who could have made a successful LotR, but I don't think it could have been given to just any talented director either.


(This post was edited by kzer_za on Oct 20 2012, 6:16pm)


Longbottom Leaf
Lorien


Oct 21 2012, 8:39pm


Views: 1311
Not so much cheesy but..

a little out of character...When Aragorn says "In one way you haven't changed,you still speak in riddles." And Gandalf kinda chuckles playfully Hehehe!. Just seemed weird,like it should've been an outtake or blooper or something.

The best weed in the southfarthing!