The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of The Rings:
What Specifically...



elevorn
Lorien


Oct 1 2012, 2:58pm


Views: 2104
What Specifically...
I have been enjoying a little side project in preparation for the Hobbit movie. I finished reading TH and am now working my way, far more slowly than I ever have, through LOTR, as soon as I finish a book, I watch the EE bluray. I have found myself pleasantly surprised as I read to find that so much dialogue and images made it into the three films. While yes I will concede that much of it is given to other characters and at some times incorrect places. At the same time I seem to have felt my trepidation about the screen writers lessened by doing this. So my question is what specifically do you feel that they missed in the LOTR films that has maybe made you weary of the upcoming film?

I'm sure this has been discussed before and if so I apologize, but I really would like to know what specifically has some of us so bothered. Please don't me for trying to cause a ruckus or try to change anyone's opinion, I simply enjoy the discussion. Smile


"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com


Magpie
Immortal


Oct 1 2012, 3:07pm


Views: 1467
It could be even more interesting to hold a separate discussion posing the flip side of your question
"what specifically do you feel that they did right in the LOTR films that has you feeling optomistic in regards to The Hobbit?"

Or to combine that flip-side question with the one you asked in the same thread.

It's just not in my nature to pull out all the things I don't like and put a big focus on them. I've lived too long and had too many things I didn't like to spend energy that way. Quite a few of the LOTR movie board regulars, I suspect, feel similarly. It's not that we didn't have moments of disappointment or dislike of LOTR, it's that we touch on them when the subject comes up and we move on. We don't spend lots of energy focusing on them. I think you'll get more participation if the discussion isn't skewed one way from the get go.

I want to like The Hobbit. If I come up with 10 ways I didn't like LOTR that I think might make me dislike The Hobbit, my chances of liking The Hobbit are reduced. I grab joy when it happens and try not to bat it down in the air with my tennis racket as it flies around in my vicinity because I've mistaken it for a bat. That means putting down the tennis racket. If it turns out to be a bat, I'll deal with it.


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elevorn
Lorien


Oct 1 2012, 3:18pm


Views: 1400
Good point!
I have not had enough coffee today so please excuse any semblance of negativity. I like your idea so I will run with it.

What do you think they did right with the LOTR films?

Personally I rather enjoy them, there's not many points I feel any contention with, though I do quite annoyingly point out various differences with the text when watching them with my wife, but she doesn't mind, or at least doesn't say she does.

I think one of my favorite moments is the paraphrase Sam gets at the end of TT. Where he talks about the old stories and whether or not they have any endings and such. Its a great moment in the book and they adapted it quite well IMHO, also take note of Gollum's countenance at that point. he resembles the "Old Hobbit" that Tolkien describes just before he leads them into Shelob's Lair.

Overall the feel of Rohan and the people is just great for me. And the location they found for the Shire, I have said many times I want to reture in New Zealand just from the scenary of these movies. Of course Western Montana has a bit of that feel as well, only a good bit newer if you follow me.


"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 1 2012, 3:26pm


Views: 1426
I'm going to give you a really mundane answer, sorry...
I could write a very long post on the absence of many key characters and/or plots from The Lord of the Rings trilogy, and how these omissions might give us a clue on how The Hobbit films will be structured ... but I won't.

Simply because, I'm wary of the films regardless. I love the film trilogy for what it is, but I'm still a little nervous about these films. I'm super excited but apprehensive. And I'm sure the majority of people will admit to that. I'm sure I will love the adaptations, but it's the nervous wait. Will it live up to expectations? Will it ruin the book? Will it be better than the LOTR trilogy? Will it fall flat on it's face. These questions come up without even considering the what was and wasn't previously omitted.

What does make me optimistic of these films is what they did get right in LOTR though. The gift giving scene in Lothlorien was beautiful. If only half of the scenes are that brilliant, then I'll be happy.

Smile

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elevorn
Lorien


Oct 1 2012, 3:37pm


Views: 1357
quite alright
I completely understand apprehension. I guess my stance is a bit different than most. I enjoy seeing how someone else brings to life a book. If the leave out parts, as long as they don't logically interrupt the story that is being told I'm fine with that. And I guess after growing up with Bakshi(sp) and R/B versions I was very very relieved with what they got right and how they presented the world and story. BTW if you want to put yourself through it, YouTube has the old versions of LOTR and Hobbit cartoons available.

perhaps this has not been my best thread, but i have just noticed so much negativity lately and it almost makes me want to shout, if you hated the first set from PJ, please don't go see this next set because you will only hate it more. (That's not directed at you Daniel, just a general frustration).

Maybe if I can just read a few more pages I'll come up with some more positive things. Or maybe I'll just keep reading...Smile best investment of the year was Tolkien in Kindle form.


"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 1 2012, 3:44pm


Views: 1469
I think you just have to try and ignore the negativity
I'm the same elevorn - there's only so much negativity one can take, and if you listen/read into it too much, then it will start effecting your own opinion. I've become a lot more critical of PJ's film adaptations since joining this forum ... simply because there are a lot more negative threads, than positive. You rarely see a thread that simply praises a scene, a character or the entire film. Yes they're not perfect, but they're the best adaptations we have to date. And more importantly, they've bought Middle-earth alive.

Of course, those that dislike the films don't have the incorrect view or opinion. They're entitled to say what they like. But negativity is always prevalent over positivity ...

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weaver
Half-elven


Oct 1 2012, 4:27pm


Views: 1362
The LOTR films did a lot to rekindle my interest in Tolkien...
Like many here, I had read the books a lot, and thought I knew the story pretty well -- one of the great gifts of the films, for me, was helping me to realize there was a lot more to the story than I realized, and to appreciate anew many things about it that I had come to take for granted.

I guess it was like they came in and rearranged the furniture in a room and made me see a familiar space and old belongings in a different and fresh way. They also provided a way for me to "talk Tolkien" with people who would never, ever read the books. So I've got a very fond feeling for the films, and this film team, because of what they've done for me, if I can put it that way.

This is not to say that not seeing story elements I expected to be there did not have an impact on me. The first time Aragorn whipped out a sword that was not broken, for example, was one of those "huh?" moments -- but by then I was hooked enough on their approach to the story that I was willing to put it aside as something to reconsider later. Years of discussion around here, and the commentaries, have helped to understand that changes were not made without considerable thought and that in general, they were done for reasons that made sense when you look at the story through a film maker's eyes (in particular, these film makers!).

So in all, I think I've gained some perspective from watching the LOTR films many times, and hanging around here for "a few" years, that gives me a pretty good comfort level about the film making process this team follows. So for the Hobbit, I'm not going in worried for what they will do to the story..I'm expecting changes, and not to see everything I think should be there, and optimistic about seeing it in a new way on the screen.
Weaver



Loresilme
Valinor


Oct 1 2012, 5:00pm


Views: 1412
Where is that *mods up* button???
I wish we could sticky your post here, Magpie. Thank you for saying it all so well.


Magpie
Immortal


Oct 1 2012, 5:07pm


Views: 1384
picking up threads from both of your responses
From my perspective, having been fairly active on TORn for at least 5 years...

The sense of overwhelming negativity that some people perceive can be attributed to a few factors. Among those is the fact that some voices just speak up more frequently than others. I know, because I've conversed with a goodly number of people in those 5 years, that many people are not nearly as negative as the most vocal voices here. They just don't visit TORn as often, or they speak up when a topic interests them and a topic that starts out negatively doesn't interest them, or they are shy of some of the contentiousness that can erupt so they just limit their posting to certain areas of the boards where they feel 'safer'.

So it looks like lots of people are negative or extremely worried. And lots are. But I don't, in my heart, believe they are the majority.

I'm so glad, elevorn, that you sensed the nuance of what I was getting at with my initial reply to you. When we 'seek' negative ideas, that's what we will reap. You understood perfectly what I was addressing and I appreciate that we've opened the conversation up to a larger context.

My take on the subject:

How I feel about the LOTR movies is so complicated, it would be impossible for me to address in anything less than a book! There was so much joy associated with those movies that spread far beyond merely what PJ put on the screen. There was my own personal situation which let a good message hit me just when I needed a good message. There was my reconnection with the books which brought me extreme joy and comfort. There was a renewal of my love of writing and connecting with people. There was the fellowship of fans (and I was especially blessed to find really, really good souls I conversed with at the time). There was an acquisition of new skills: TA-ing a LOTR online class - learning web design so I could share my knowledge and research on the soundtrack with others. There was my own step into a new life as I left my old profession and ventured (at the age of 52) into a new one - bolstered by confidence brought about all those experiences.

Was PJ perfect? No. But life has given me the skill to slough off at least some of the irritations and annoyances I encounter. (I could always use more of that skill) And as much as I roll my eyes at some aspects of the movies, I move past them and access the joy the movies brought me and represent to me.

Many of the things I might not like even allow me to understand what I do like better. If I think PJ screwed something up, I can often examine why I feel that way. What did the original source - JRRT's writings - do that I think is better? It helps me understand and appreciate Tolkien more deeply. How can I fault something that gives me that gift?

What I think I learned with LOTR is, if I go into the movie expecting MY Tolkien - that version of Tolkien we all think of as "THE" Tolkien but is really the version of Tolkien that each of us develops and nurtures within ourselves... if I go into PJ's movies expecting MY Tolkien, I am more likely to be disappointed than if I let PJ give me HIS version of Tolkien and I accept the parts I like, use the parts I don't to help me understand the original text better, and discard and ignore the parts that I just can't abide.

I am deliberately not revisiting The Hobbit - in book form - before the movies. I have never responded to The Hobbit, as a book, in the same way I responded to LOTR, as a book. So I don't have it ingrained in my head to start with. I'm going to leave it like that. I'm sure I will be eager to reread the book once I have the visuals and experience of - what I hope will be - a highly enjoyable movie in my brain. I will be highly capable, at that point, of taking in all that Tolkien offers. His work will be waiting for me and it will not be diminished by anything PJ does or doesn't do.

I am also trying not to shoulder PJ with the burden of replicating the experience I had with LOTR. I don't think he could. In some ways, it was a perfect storm of circumstances for me that neither he nor I have any control over. This is also a different book. And... it's a different world out there. It just doesn't seem to me that people want to be happy these days. They want to find lists of excuses for why they aren't happy. Or why happiness doesn't exist. Or why people don't want to let them be happy. Or why, maybe, they don't deserve happiness.

You can't really fight that attitude. I can't help them find happiness and I can't let myself get caught up in their negativity. All I can do is try to find small niches where that doesn't overwhelm the more natural (to my mind) balance of some good... some bad... we hope and work for the good... we get past and try to counter the bad.

That's the lesson I take from Tolkien. To do less would be a dishonor of my great affection and esteem for the gifts he's given us.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
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elostirion74
Rohan

Oct 1 2012, 8:37pm


Views: 1341
hmmm
Since it´s possible to do the flip side of the coin, I´m fairly optimistic about The Hobbit. One reason is the beauty of the scenery in the LoTR films, the beauty and variety of the art and designs and the sense of history they invested the landscape with; a vital aspect of the films which I´m confident will be continued in The Hobbit (especially since they´ve kept the same concept art designers).

Another is the very strong focus on the humane themes in the LOTR films, which fits the story and themes of The Hobbit very well, what with all the humour and the contrast between Bilbo´s perspective and those of Thorin and Bard.

A third is the casting, which was mostly very good for LoTR, and seems even better for The Hobbit.

Having seen LoTR so many times have made me more aware of Jackson´s film style, his overall choices for the adaptation and what I think of as his strengths and weaknesses (in terms of my cinematic taste). So you might say I think I´m more realistic this time around, and don´t expect the films to include aspects of the story, or my way of imagining it, that don´t fit in with Jackson´s approach to film making.


elevorn
Lorien


Oct 1 2012, 9:20pm


Views: 1386
Dead on right!
I agree with you and thank you for pointing my nuance out. Sometimes I guess it can get on you and you fall trap to it.

I think the point I really wanted to make was that my appreciation for the movies has been greatly increased(I've always liked them from the get go). I can see the choices the script writers made and why it made sense to them. And I Also come to love how so many little things were put in those movies for the readers to see and hear. Someone said one time that the dialogue was just all wrong. But after rereading I hear all of these wonderful lines that are in the dialogue that are straight from the text and I think it's just great.


"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com


weaver
Half-elven


Oct 1 2012, 9:21pm


Views: 1376
a visit to one of these places is a good cure for negativity!
Here's a link to a post where you can go on a TORn vacation -- there have been times in the past that TORn has been accused of being too positive, so a trip back in time is a nice place to go if you need a break!

The bestest place ever to go, though is to TORn's Mathom-house! This link will take you to a room in there where you can find discussions galore. I heartily recommend a visit just to get some historical perspective on how the winds have blown around here...

The tone of TORn changes over time -- it's kind of like the weather! It gets all blustery when the focus is on speculation, and then after the films come out you get a nice mix of sunny days and stormy winds, and then after a while it calms down and mostly positive remains. Over the long haul, negativity just burns itself out, I think, and we're left mostly with talk that focuses on what worked, rather than what didn't. At least that's been my experience of TORn over the past almost 10 years I think!

Me, I'm looking forward to scene discussions of the Hobbit films -- I'd much rather analyze what we've seen, than speculate about what might or might not be. So I'm not as active in the advance discussion phase, but I know many must enjoy that, given by the traffic on the Hobbit Board.
Weaver



Magpie
Immortal


Oct 1 2012, 9:49pm


Views: 1357
just remember...
...just like I said any negative experience I might have with the movies can't change my fundamental relationship with the books...

overwhelmingly negative attitudes toward the movies can't change my own fundamental relationship with them - or yours.

It can be dismaying to feel that one doesn't have people with whom to share what they enjoy (that came out awkward - quick, Ethel... edit it!). But those people are here. They just aren't LOUD!

The SCOD discussions will interest you, I think. Be sure to check them out when they're posted. And perusing old discussions using the resource that weaver linked to (weaver, you did a text link you crafty tech princess!) might also be entertaining. There's a lot there. But I think there was some good stuff there too.

Also, feel free... if you have a particular topic on the LOTR movies you'd like to discuss... to post a thread. I find that I get the best response when I offer some thoughts, ask some questions, and then open it up to (and be ready to accept) letting the discussion follow its own path.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Macfeast
Rohan


Oct 1 2012, 10:01pm


Views: 1382
"...if you hated the first set from PJ, please don't go see this next set because you will only hate it more..."
Thing is, if people did this, then they would instead be accused of being close-minded, of not giving PJ and team a second chance, and of making their minds up about things they haven't seen yet. It's a no-win situation.

Sorry to nitpick that one little quote out of everything else that has been said in this thread, but I thought it needed to be said. It's not always as simple as "don't like it, don't see it" (especially when dealing with something we haven't even seen yet). Even though one did not like someones earlier works, one can still find enjoyment in that someones latter works (or the other way around); I've had that experience many a time.


(This post was edited by Macfeast on Oct 1 2012, 10:05pm)


Escapist
Gondor


Oct 1 2012, 10:10pm


Views: 1398
opportunity cost
The truth is - no one can have everything and see every movie in the theater.
So when making a decision based on a limited budget of time and money ... past experience (especially repeated past experience) says a lot.

It's just a question of spending the time and the money - is it worth it for what it will be estimated to cost you?
For me - the answer is yes when it comes to The Hobbit and past experience with LOTR.
For others - the answer is different.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 1 2012, 10:26pm


Views: 1345
Understood
But there is often an unfortunate assumption, among those who generally liked the films, that people who are less enthusiastic about them "look for flaws."

Personally, that is not how I watch a film at all. I sit back, and let the images and the sounds wash over me, with my mind as open as possible.

At the end of it, I have a feeling. I either responded to it profoundly, enjoyed it as entertainment, or didn't really like it. My feeling after watching FOTR, TTT and ROTK was "I didn't really like that."

I then tried to figure why I didn't like them, as explaining that to myself, as well as others, is important for me to move on from it!

So if it seems that people like me are overly critical, it is not because we love to hate. It is because we have reasons, sometimes very deep and specific reasons, why we think the films didn't work for us, and we want to share that with other book and movie fans.

So, just as starting out with an OP that is very positive about the films is never frowned upon, this OP that starts off with a "negative question" should also not be frowned upon. The OP wants to know what people didn't like about LOTR, and what that means for their fears about TH, and we should respect that.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 1 2012, 10:30pm


Views: 1377
Wait a second
Did you just change the thread to the complete opposite of what it started out as?

I have to admit. Magpie is VERY convincing! Smile


Escapist
Gondor


Oct 1 2012, 10:33pm


Views: 1365
This reminds me of some advice about whether or not to marry a guy
yeah - maybe they aren't perfect ... but in the end, is your life better with them in it? If you want to keep them then maybe there are some flaws - but who doesn't have flaws?

I do see some things in the films that I think could have been done differently or some small things I didn't like but in the end, I am glad they are there and enjoy life more with them than without them - and really, while I can imagine the "perfect film for me", will I ever really find just what I imagine out there somewhere? I'm doubting it! So I thankfully accept these films and enjoy them.

But I guess there is a difference between "yeah I like it but there are a few flaws" and "I didn't really like that - why?". Both might sound like each other when people are discussing nitty gritty details but they aren't really the same thing.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 1 2012, 10:42pm


Views: 1376
IMO, that's a tad unfair
Just because someone is critical of the films, it does not follow that they "seek" negativity. That is a subtle dismissal of people's opinions that can be quite suffocating, if you're on the receiving end of it.

I, for example, love all sorts of films, books and works of art unabashedly, and that is because I love them! While I dislike certain things, because I dislike them, not because I want to dislike them.

The Lord of the Rings is a special case for me. As a lover of Tolkien, and as a long-time film buff (I used to talk film with my grandfather from a very young age, and did so right up until the hour he died) one of my dreams in life was to see Middle Earth brought to life.

I went into FOTR hoping to be transported to a forgotten age, just as the books had done, and as favorite films of mine, like Lawrence of Arabia, had done. And it didn't happen. The same happened with TTT and ROTK, though I had adjusted my expectations by then, and was less affected as a result.

This essentially means that an important dream of mine remains unfulfilled. And I want to talk about that! Yes, it helps me to discuss this disappointment with other fans of the books, other film buffs, and yes, even other fans of PJ's films. I want to talk about why I dislike them, discuss the bits that I do like. This process has, in fact, led me to appreciate the films a little more than I used to. But more than that, it has given me an important outlet to discuss both my disappointment, and my hopes for the Hobbit.

And there is nothing wrong with wanting to talk about that, just as there is nothing wrong with wanting to share your enthusiasm. It is normal, healthy, and welcome on a forum like TORN, and should not be marginalized.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 1 2012, 10:45pm


Views: 1340
Thanks
Appreciate the understanding. As you observed, the key difference is that some people, who were expecting these films to enhance their enjoyment of life, had quite the opposite experience. They disappointed me on a very profound level. And I ain't gonna marry someone that disappoints me on a very profound level. Smile


Macfeast
Rohan


Oct 1 2012, 10:50pm


Views: 1326
True; No one can have everything and see every movie.
In this case though, we're dealing with a very limited playing-field, namely cinematic adaptions of Tolkien's work; That limits the amount of time and money one needs to spend. Hypothetically, had I myself not liked PJ's LOTR, I would still see PJ's the Hobbit, because I'd consider the time and cost of three movies spread over a period of two-and-a-half years, to be a more than reasonable price for the potential reward; A cinematic adaption of Tolkien's work that I would end up liking.
As it turned out, I loved PJ's LOTR, and I expect to love the Hobbit as well; I just have a tendacy to play devil's advocate when I think others are treated unfairly.

As you say though, it's up to each and everyone one of us to decide whether the potential reward is worth the risk; Others shouldn't decide it for us (unless asked for). That's why I'm not a fan of "don't like it, don't see it" in this context. If someone did not like PJ's LOTR, but still wants to see PJ's the Hobbit just in case they end up liking it, then let them, I say. I'd commend them for being open-minded enough to give PJ another chance.


(This post was edited by Macfeast on Oct 1 2012, 11:00pm)


weaver
Half-elven


Oct 1 2012, 10:53pm


Views: 1329
yep, group therapy can be a good thing!
When the LOTR films came out, I had some very long and ongoing discussions with some folks who have since faded away (anyone remember merryk?) who very much needed and wanted to process things in the films that did not work for them for one reason or another. While she never was "converted" into views that were contrary to her own, I think it did help her to talk about it and it made me really think harder and deeper about why the things that did not work for her worked for me. Those kinds of discussions I readily engage in and am looking forward to doing that once we have an actual Hobbit film out there to talk about.

Overall, I do have a lot of empathy for folks who just were not satisfied, for whatever reason, with Jackson's approach to the Tale. I saw Bakshi's LOTR in theaters and remember to this day how profoundly disappointing that experience was for me. I am sure had the Internet been around then that I would have gone looking for someplace to talk about how I felt, and what I would have rather seen, and that would have really helped.

I have less sympathy, though, when expressing disappointment is couched in a way that seems to infer (to me, anyway, and whether the attempt was deliberate or not on the part of the poster) that I am somehow missing the point or settling for less because the Jackson films worked for me. Preferring a different film style or approach is one thing, but that does not equate, in my book, to the films we got being bad or the film makers who made them being terrible, and it's harder for me to want to talk to someone about their troubles with the films when the debate evokes that kind of response from me.

My wish for those, like you, who did not get the LOTR film they wanted is that one day you do -- if you love Tolkien, that's an experience that is most definitely worth having. And I also think it would be great for Peter Jackson and company to have another film version some day to which the current films can be compared, so that they could be seen in some kind of perspective. Right now, he's the only game in town, and that's a hard spot sometimes, I think.

My two cents, anyway!
Weaver



Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Oct 1 2012, 10:54pm


Views: 1362
That's a book I would defintely buy and read!
Quote
How I feel about the LOTR movies is so complicated, it would be impossible for me to address in anything less than a book!

Just sayin'!
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Oct 1 2012, 11:04pm


Views: 1325
It's just different personalities of course
But, and this is seen much more extremely on other sites, I suppose I just can't imagine still wanting to regularly talk about a film i didn't like a decade later.

If a friend were still regularly talking about what went wrong with a marriage ten years later my patience would have long since evaporated.

But we all have our own approaches.

LR


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 1 2012, 11:11pm


Views: 1315
This is an excellent way to put it, Magpie
Quote
There was so much joy associated with those movies that spread far beyond merely what PJ put on the screen. There was my own personal situation which let a good message hit me just when I needed a good message. There was my reconnection with the books which brought me extreme joy and comfort. There was a renewal of my love of writing and connecting with people. There was the fellowship of fans (and I was especially blessed to find really, really good souls I conversed with at the time). There was an acquisition of new skills: TA-ing a LOTR online class - learning web design so I could share my knowledge and research on the soundtrack with others. There was my own step into a new life as I left my old profession and ventured (at the age of 52) into a new one - bolstered by confidence brought about all those experiences.

And it helps illuminate how extremely disappointing it would have been if the films not only didn't provide you with that joy, at the right time in your life, but in some ways, did the opposite. Honestly, I have been very emotionally invested in Tolkien's world since I was quite small, and that may have to do with the simple fact that I was drawn to them during a rather traumatic time in my childhood. I don't know. It's hard to self-psychoanalyze. I have also looked to film to serve a similar function of healthy mental escape. And when the films missed the mark for me, they did so on a very personal level. And to this day, talking about that with fans of Tolkien, fans of film, and fans of PJ, is a good thing, and I value it.

That is why I get a bit prickly when people question the wisdom of talking about the film's flaws, and suggest that I go somewhere else, ignore the films, re-read the book, or "stop looking for flaws." IMO, the best thing among fans is to not judge people's motivations for feeling a certain way, and simply discuss what they say, or don't say. That way, there can be no legitimate offense taken.



(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Oct 1 2012, 11:15pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 1 2012, 11:12pm


Views: 901
The key difference is
They were film adaptations of one of my favorite things in the world. LOTR. And as a film buff, a film version of LOTR has long been something I dreamed of.

I mean, I no longer talk about Howard the Duck because I don't care about the story, and the film stunk. But that's a different thing altogether.

Though, I did just talk about Howard the Duck right there, didn't I...


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Oct 1 2012, 11:14pm)


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Oct 1 2012, 11:22pm


Views: 879
Well no I understand that
And I'm not being funny. It is just genuinely strange for me. Ten years is such a long time - I would expect most people to not be regularly discussing a divorce, a serious illness or even a death after that time.

As I say, different strokes but I just struggle to empathise. Had a very similar situation with the Susan Cooper adaptation (The Dark is Rising), but I can honestly say I think I have spent less than 30 minutes of my life discussing it.

LR


Macfeast
Rohan


Oct 1 2012, 11:23pm


Views: 903
Editing time went out.
Short version; You're entirely right in what you're saying. I just think that what you describe is a personal thing (unless input from others is asked for), and if someone has decided that they want to risk seeing a movie that they might end up not liking, then they shouldn't have to be told by others not to experience it, nor that they won't end up liking it. That's why, in this particular context, I don't like "don't like it, don't see it"; Let people make up their own minds about that.


(This post was edited by Macfeast on Oct 1 2012, 11:28pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 1 2012, 11:28pm


Views: 890
Got it - one point of clarification, though
I also don't enjoy dwelling on past hurts, past disappointments, and past trivialities. If I had a scumbag partner that I got rid of ten years ago, I wouldn't be posting about it on the internet. I prefer to focus on the present and future.

On the other hand, because I love Tolkien, I love film, and enjoy discussing art and entertainment in general, I actually enjoy talking about the films, even though I didn't particularly care for them. Furthermore, there are moments in them that I find sublime, and I do find value in discussing the reasons why I appreciate them. In other words, its not masochistic, or necessarily therapeutic (though it can occasionally be the latter). It's simply enjoyable.

So, it's not quite a broad brush stroke personality thing. It's a more complicated mix of pleasure and pain! (but again, not masochistic!) Smile


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 1 2012, 11:29pm


Views: 840
Agreed
It is a dismissive response, with no understanding or empathy in it. To TORN's credit, however, there are very few people here who say such things.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Oct 1 2012, 11:30pm)


Magpie
Immortal


Oct 1 2012, 11:52pm


Views: 882
how shocked would you be...
to learn I 'kind of' started one. :-)

I had to do a book design project in my digital layout and design class. I chose to do this one:
https://picasaweb.google.com/...XC7w?feat=directlink

I've designed some interior pages: section headers pages, style sheets for content pages, icons/bullets, etc. And I entered some conversations I had with others and part of my 2002 Summer of Tolkien journal.

I bet it doesn't shock you much, does it. lol. I'm just that compulsive, just that verbose, and just that egotistical.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Oct 2 2012, 12:28am


Views: 854
Given that
compulsive, verbose and egotistical enough to have actually written a book, no, I'm not surprised.

I think you should finish it!
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Magpie
Immortal


Oct 2 2012, 12:32am


Views: 840
lol...
I hope you didn't take that as a dig in your direction. I was just thinking you have a good sense of me and that I would do it. We share some of those Myers Briggs letters you and I.

But just like I was hoping you'd chuckle at my comment, I'm chuckling at yours.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Oct 2 2012, 1:04am


Views: 840
On the contrary
I consider it a compliment to be similar to you in any way!

And yes, I did chuckle at your comment. Which was a pleasant change from some interaction around here!
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Plurmo
Rohan

Oct 2 2012, 2:12am


Views: 927
Specifically? That would be Aragorn's personality.
They produced the unwilling hero and put it in place of the man with full knowledge of his mission and heritage. That's why I doubt they will give Thorin a proper dwarf king personality. There will be misplaced exaggerations to compensate for their inability to portray book's Thorin and to make the cute Thorin seem less weak.

Even then it should be expected that they will make some good choices regarding Thorin the same way they did with Viggo's Aragorn. And I believe the movies will be very good though they will feel more artificial because many actors will be recycling previous roles and because of the technology choices.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Oct 2 2012, 1:19pm


Views: 794
wise words Magpie
I agree with all your points. When I saw FOTR many years ago I hadnt visited any forums and I had no preconceived ideas what so ever. I went into the cinema with a completely open mind, and I was amazed and delighted by the films. There were bits I didnt like much, and there were bits that annoyed me a lot, but on the whole I fell in love with them. Years later and expecting the Hobbit I started to post on a forum expecting to share my excitement at the coming films. Slowly I kind of got sucked into posting and slowly I got to understand more and be more critical. I think this is a double edged sword. ok I have had fun telling my fellow forumers how I dislike axes in heads and how I think Tauriel is a huge mistake, but deep down I really want to like these films, and if I dont its going to be a big disappointment. Maybe its better to back slowly away and preserve the last shreds of innocence? I stopped posting on one forum because I really found the vitriol spat at PJ and co was quite disappointing and uncalled for. They bandied about names like 'The Coven' which I found distastful and unpleasant. Tolkien purists can be the most intransigent of all fans. It was almost impossible to be positive without getting shot down in great length and with bibliography/references. I love debate, even heated debate, but sometimes it just feels like one sided monologue with someone with an axe to grind. If some people want to rant and hammer home how bad PJ is thats their prerogative and right to do so, but I dont intend to read it, accept it, or be influenced by it. Its only a film for heavens sake, and its only entertainment, I have a deep love for the books and Peter Jacksons films can in no way shape or form alter, destroy or corrupt them. I have respect for people who are disappointed by LOTR, I can try to understand their concerns without feeling I have to ram my views down their neck. I guess I am a middle roader, and I hope these new films give everyone pleasure and a few hours escape from the difficulties of life. I really do.


elevorn
Lorien


Oct 2 2012, 1:25pm


Views: 792
oh I know
Its not that I'm really saying that, its just the point I was at, where my frustration level had driven me to. Magpie has talked me off the ledge though.


"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com


elevorn
Lorien


Oct 2 2012, 1:31pm


Views: 859
Yes I did
I read Magpies response and she had the spirit I was going for in mind, and was kind enough to point out that I had now taken on the very kind of attitude that had at first frustrated me.

I do enjoy a debate, and the bandying about of ideas, sometimes you get overwhelmed by certain trivial things and she was kind enough to help me see the error of my ways. Angelic


"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com


elevorn
Lorien


Oct 2 2012, 1:42pm


Views: 851
apologies
I apologize if my, "don't like it don't see it" comment made you (or anyone else who read this thread) feel in away way put out. It was not my intention and probably a bad play on my part. Like I said earlier, it was a point of frustration and I let it get to me and I do regret saying such a ridiculously callous thing. The last thing I want is for someone to close off their opinions because of something I said, or wrote.


"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 2 2012, 4:50pm


Views: 800
No worries at all, elevorn!
In fact, I hadn't noticed that you said anything like that, and was referencing countless other comments like it.

In my experience, you and Magpie have been perfectly wonderful on these forums, and I harbor no ill will!


Elessar
Valinor


Oct 2 2012, 6:46pm


Views: 876
My thoughts (short to semi-short)
Of course with any book to movie there are going to be different. I don't feel as a whole there are dramatic differences. There are aspects of the books that I enjoy but don't mind losing (Tom Bombadil and the extended Ent sequences) and there are things added that I don't care for in the movies (Change to Faramir, Frodo showing the ring to the Nazgul, Frodo sending Sam away) . So I look at both of these as nearly perfect with the same heart and essence within them. The books and the movies mean a lot to me so I understand how a negative reaction can feel if how I feel is so positive. For me when it comes to negative opinions I listen and take them under consideration to a point. It's when someone starts calling hacks or something to that effect I turn them off. It's not to be rude but if you go off the reservation there is no common ground to really be had. So for me it becomes someone whose opinion I gloss over.


(This post was edited by Elessar on Oct 2 2012, 6:48pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 5 2012, 5:06am


Views: 846
Agreed
Though there seem to be very few, if any, of those sorts of people here. In general, I find most TORNers, those who love PJ's films, those who like them a little, and those who don't like them very much at all, to be very nice, agreeable and humorous people.


Elessar
Valinor


Oct 5 2012, 11:05am


Views: 1227
Yup
There does seem to be enough of a balance to let you talk with folks you can have a conversation that can actually go someplace.